and unsurpassed penetrating and perfect karma is rarely met with even a hundred thousand kaphas having it to see and listen to to remember and accept Good morning and good evening, BCC Saga. A student who needs no introduction, let us hear the shoe soap. Thank you. There's a lot of layers and humor under that intro. I have another thing. Can you make this show a gallery view rather than me?

[01:05]

Ah, great. Thank you so much. So I'm curious to know if there are new people. I get that we might have new people in the audience somewhere. So yes, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you to everyone else for being here. So this is, what, the fourth week of our six-week practice period, I think. And many of us have upped our level of participation, coming to classes and more zazen and, you know, immersed ourselves at a deeper level. And hopefully, hoping that something will arise out of it. Hoson, when he asked me to be head student, provided this particular koan, which most of you know is a talk by, in this case, Yunmin from the 10th century in southern China.

[02:32]

In all of these vast quantities of teachers, many generations in China were somehow sending their teaching out through the ages and it reached people but you have to realize or I realize that a lot of the context I don't have the context for what so I'm going to try and give the context for what's happening with me and hopefully it It resonates. So, just briefly, the koans have a particular structure, sort of an introduction, and the case itself, sort of the concise core case or koan or public case, public story. And then there's commentaries and explanations and a poem.

[03:39]

I can touch on some of this. I'm starting to grapple with what this means to me, and I will speak about it. But I thought that I'd first start with just reading the entire koan, Case 86, which is, the translation is by Cleary and Cleary, and the title of it is Yun Min's Kitchen Pantry and Main Gate. And the pointer is composed by Yuan Wu, who was a Zen master in the 12th century. It has a lot to do with the compiling of these many public cases of records. And the Blue Cliff Records has a hundred of these cases. And the one I'm reading is number 86. So just to give a little overview, you know, put ourselves in some sort of time and space, which quickly gets taken away from us.

[04:45]

Pointer. He holds the world fast without the slightest leak. He cuts off the myriad flows without keeping a drop. Open and you're wrong. Hesitate in thought and you miss. But tell me, what is the barrier penetrating I? To test, I cite this to see case. Yunnan imparted some words saying, everyone has a light. You don't see it, and it's dark and dim. What is everybody's light? He himself answered on their behalf, the kitchen pantry and the main gate. He also said, a good thing is not as good as nothing. Commentary. In his room, Yun Min imparted some words to teach people. All of you, right where you stand, each and every one of you has a beam of light shining continuously, now and as of old, far removed from seeing or knowing.

[06:00]

Though it's a light, when you're asked about it, you don't understand. Isn't it dark and dim? For 20 years, he handed down this lesson. But there was never anyone who understood his meaning. Later, Shanlin asked Hinman to speak on their behalf. Hinman said, the kitchen pantry and the main gate. He also said, a good thing isn't as good as nothing. Usually, what he said in place of others was just a single sentence. Why then are there two here? The first sentence barely opens a road for you to let you see. If you're for real, as soon as you hear it mentioned, you get right up and go. Young men feared people would get stuck here. So he also said, a good thing is not as good as nothing. He swept it away for you.

[07:02]

As soon as they hear you mention light, People these days immediately put a glare in their eye and say, where's the kitchen pantry? Where's the main gate? But this has nothing to do with it. Thus, perceive the meaning on the hook. Don't abide by the zero point of the scale. This matter is not in the eye or in the environment. To begin to understand, you must cut off knowing and seeing. Forget gain and loss. and become purified naked at ease. Each and every one must investigate on your own. Yin men said, you come and go by daylight. You distinguish people by daylight. Suddenly it's midnight and there's moon or lamplight. If it's someplace you've been to,

[08:05]

then of course it's possible. In a place you have never been, can you even manage to get hold of something? Shitao, Sikito's merging of differences. The Sandokai says, right within light there's darkness, but don't see it as darkness. Right within darkness there's light, but don't meet it as light. If you cut off light and darkness, Tell me, what is it? Thus it is said, the flower emits light shining on all the lands in the ten directions. Panjshan said, light isn't shining on objects, nor do the objects exist. Light and objects both forgotten. Then what is this? Also, it was said, This very seeing and hearing is not seeing and hearing, but there's no other sound and form that can be offered to you.

[09:12]

Here, if you can't understand that there's nothing at all, you are free to separate essence and action. Just understand Yun Min's final statement thoroughly. Then you can go back to the former one to roam and play, but ultimately you do not make a living there. The ancient, he said, all things are established on a non-abiding basis. You mustn't go here to play with lights and shadow and give play to your spirit, nor will it do you to make up an understanding in terms of nothingness. An ancient said, Rise to a view of existence as big as Mount Sumeru, then that you produce a view of nothingness, as small as a mustard seed. People of the lesser two vehicles often fall one-sidedly into this view.

[10:15]

Verse. And I'm going to leave out the introductory lines. The myriad forms and images Guest and host intermingle. He snaps your nostrils around. What are you doing, blind men? Why only one? Ten suns are shining side by side. He has managed to set down one root. What end is there to creating complications? Where will you seek it? He fills. A black lacquer with black ink. Blind. You shouldn't always hold on to fences and grop along walls. Two blind men. Three blind men. Both ends are cut off. Blind. Inside the main gate, he joins.

[11:22]

Give me back the story. I hit, saying, where has... He gone. Shui Tao, said Joe. Joe was just making his living inside the ghost cave. Do you understand? At midnight, at noonday, the midnight watch is sounding. Spontaneously shining, and this is commentary, ranged in the solitary light. Originally right where you stand, there's this beam of light. it's just that your use of it is that's why great master yunmin set out this light for you right in front of your faces but say what is everyone's light the kitchen pantry in the main gate this is your where yunmin arrays the solitary light the mind moon is solitary and full its life its light engulfs

[12:26]

million forms this is the true eternal unique revelation afterwards he opens a root for you yun-min still feared that people would become it the kitchen pantry and the main gate conceding for the moment the kitchen pantry when the morning flowers fall and the tree has no shadow when the sun has gone down and the moon goes dark and all of heaven and earth is black, vastness, you'll see. When looking, who doesn't see? Tell me, who is it that doesn't see? Here, right within light, there's darkness, and right within darkness, both are like a step forward, and a step backward. You must see for yourself. Shwetao says, seeing or not seeing, or versifies, a good thing isn't as good as nothing.

[13:34]

Merged with seeing, still you don't see. Merged with illumination, still stand. Riding backwards on an ox, entering the Buddha shrine. He's gone into the black lacquer bucket. You must personally ride the ox into the Buddha shrine. to see what it is that he's saying. How do we, How do we look into this? What I notice is that all of these cases, the students, the disciples are told, you don't understand.

[14:36]

You don't understand. You don't understand. Now what? He holds the world fast without the slightest leak. He cuts off million flows without keeping a drop. Open your mouth and you're wrong. Hesitate and follow it, and you miss. What is the barrier penetrating I? To test, I cite this to see, and what this means, and it took me a while to, I mean, it may be obvious to most people, but to test your understanding is what, to test your understanding, I cite this case to see how you know it. So then the case, and there's a couple phrases there that I really like and people sort of laugh with me and we could probably recite them together after a while.

[15:37]

Everyone has a light. When you look at it, you don't see it, and it's dark and dim. What is everybody's light? He answered on their behalf, the kitchen, pantry, and the main gate. And he also said, a good thing isn't as good as nothing. And I want to get to categorize his thoughts on this in a minute, but let me just go a little bit farther with the commentary. In his room, Yun Min imparted some words to teach people. All of you, right where you stand, each and every one of you has a beam of light shining continuously now as of old. Far from being or knowing. Though it's a light when you're asked about it, you don't understand. Isn't it dark and dim? For 20 years he handed down this lesson, but there was never anyone who understood his meaning. So Zen Masters,

[16:39]

And our practice teaches us we must look for ourselves. We must understand this. And it is beyond our knowing. It's actually beyond our usual knowing. Some teachers toss their students out. There's stories about knowledge in the door. Asking them to leave. For 20 years, old Yunmin failed. no one understood now what can anyone tell you anything sometimes there's a connection and sometimes we're there's nothing how about you what penetrates will you know in advance what's going to penetrate no Something's washing over us.

[17:46]

Can we see it? Maybe. Sometimes. Maybe. As Sean Lin asked Yunmin to speak on their behalf, Min said, and we can all say this together, the kitchen pantry and the main gate. He also said, a good thing isn't as good as nothing. Usually what he said was not just a single sentence. Why then are there two here? The first sentence barely opens a road for you to let you see. If you're for real, as soon as you hear it mentioned, you'll get right up and go. Even men feared people would get stuck here. The good thing is not as good as nothing. As before, he swept it away for you. For you.

[18:47]

Don't cling to anything. So what I started to grapple with in my very beginning understanding is think about it. So, but just simple stuff like why then are there two here? It simply refers to the two phrases. The kitchen pantry and the main gate. I know that's obvious to some people, but it wasn't to me. So kitchen pantry and main gate. And the second phrase, a good thing isn't as good as nothing. So those are sort of our, that's what I hold fast to, to the extent I can or think about. So the kitchen pantry, and those questions are what is, Those phrases answer, what is everybody's light? The kitchen pantry and the main gate. But it could mean children, it could mean your cushion, it could mean how the state of your knee, or the fact that one of my big pines looks like it's dying, you know?

[20:09]

how great it was to talk to my granddaughter last night. You know, the light is what's in our life. As the koan says, well, just let me say that Yunmin was noted for adding new twists to the older teachings so that hopefully the students would have a new way in to understand. And, but he used one phrase, you know, usually one phrase, pithy things that were remembered. But this paragraph comments, well, here he's using two phrases, so that's different. But it's still to help answer, where's your light? And as the Cohen says, that what comes to mind, right here, right now,

[21:11]

barely opens a road for you. This is your light. The light here in this space. And we see it. Or not. But it barely opens a road. Now what? Sometimes I better get up and do something. I see that. a good thing isn't as good as nothing. Katagiri Roshi tells us if you think that every aspect of your life is manifesting light, then you're stuck. That point where it's a thought is not it. My thought, my life is good, which it is, I think that I'm stuck.

[22:13]

Am I stuck in that thought? Get the idea of good. You are choked by good. Finally, you don't know what good is. He tells us, if you work hard and create a beautiful life, you may attach to life. Well, yeah, you bet. Maybe you believe you are wonderful. Then you become critical towards others. I mean, you can. That's a cautionary tale there. It's fine to. Happiness is great, but there's always that edge. We're always measuring and comparing, evaluating. And we will do that. We're human.

[23:14]

We notice it now. Sometimes in our practice, we can notice it, be less harmful with it. Do you know what I mean? How our judgment sort of, and worries can derail a good thing. Category says it's the same thing with spiritual life. I should watch out, not cling to it. Have it. As my mother would have said, in God's ear, may our lives be good and wonderful, but we cling to it and there's a problem. I understand what's called light. Uh-oh. There's something I just need to throw in.

[24:19]

The thing that happens when we can share, we've read something, we've studied something, that we can share, that opens up something of connection, and I can't describe it. And it's not the same being up here in the front seat. It is and it isn't. It's like a vast view. Do you know? Sometimes you have that. And a lot of the times, get through this talk, and I'm not understanding anything, and just let me out of here. And all of that happens in these dharma talks, so to speak. Back to the commentary.

[25:21]

As soon as they hear you mention life, people these days immediately put a glare in their eye and say, where's the kitchen pantry? Where's the main gate? But this has nothing to do with it. Thus it is said, don't abide by the zero point of the scale. This matter is not in the eye or in the environment. To begin to understand, you must cut off knowing and seeing, forget gain and loss, and become purified naked and perfectly at ease. Each and every one must investigate. So, what Categori Roshi says about this, Buddhism says we must always return to zero. use our whole body, life, education, experience to return to zero. But when he says we are immediately hooked by the idea, I'm paraphrasing here.

[26:25]

We can become hooked by our bodies, our ideas, ourself. So that hook in this work, I guess it's a fish hook. You know how you, I don't know if you ever caught a fish, but Or somebody says something and you go, you're hooked. And he says that we always look outside ourselves, but our hard practice is to cut off usual ways of knowing. The total dynamic activity of your life lets you be zero. it's sort of like you ride these opinions or these realizations lightly you know knowing that you're hooked and it's okay because we're human just notice that there's a subtle thing that happens when we recognize where we're hooked and then i really like the part about the glaring you know

[27:39]

I think they had some idea about what it might mean. As soon as they hear you mention light, people these days immediately put a glare in their eyes and say, where's the kitchen pantry? Where's the main gate? And I'm not like, I know what they mean. I know what they mean. And there actually may be no communication. connection at all. I just think I know something. And it may or may not be true, but there's not a suggestion that you don't stay with people in that kind of state, you know, where you are presenting your teaching or your good advice. It's not being heard, or is the person interested in what you have to say? You know, there's, I'm gone.

[28:42]

Those of us who've had teenage children understand this especially. And I'm gone. I'm away. I'm going away. That's my take on it at the moment. For God's sakes, it's just a gate. It's just a pantry. Don't make a big deal out of it. Let's just get up and go and get on with it. Now, I'm not sure that's an accurate interpretation of that. They get up and go. Is that for real? They get up and go. I don't know, but that's what I thought of at the time. Somebody else's ideas, I'd be glad to hear them.

[29:43]

So I think it has to do with timing and connection. And I have a little story that maybe sort of fits in here, a memory. in the 1990s, I had begun practicing here. And I was in Sashin. And I was encouraged to go to practice discussion or dokasan, which I didn't know who these people were really. And I went up, so I signed up, and I went up to talk to the teacher, the person there, who turned out to be Mary Moseen, who is at Clearwater, Zendo, and Vallejo. And many of you know Mary.

[30:46]

And I wanted to share something good, a good thing with her. I said, well, Orioki, I, you know, I've been... and I'm really excited about it and I know how to do it, sort of. And I have this sense of connection with my Buddha bowl. And some of you, most of you may know that in Oriyoki, you know, we have three bowls. We have our own sets of bowls and claws and utensils. So the first bowl is the big bowl. It's like the big bowl, the middle bowl, the little bowl. And the big bowl usually has grain. The main part of the meal is a grain. So I had this wonderful merging with my Buddha bowl. It was very sweet, really cool, like a shift in perspective that we have, those special precious moments we get.

[31:49]

And I thought, well, that's a good thing to share with her, a good thing to say. And she sat there and said very kindly, I think, isn't that nice? And I was confused. Aren't I supposed to be a good Zen student? Whatever that is. It meant a lot to me, and I can't say what the meaning is, except something opened up. Like, oh, you know what? The way I interpret it now, I mean, all these years of practice, it's a very sweet memory to be able to have my own understanding and not for anybody else's benefit.

[33:14]

Though it is for all benefit of all beings in a way, but it gave me some detachment from trying to prove something. Does that make sense? I have no idea what time it is. How much time do we have? I have a lot to say. I don't have 20 minutes worth to say, but we'll get through this. Yun Min said, you come and go by daylight. You distinguish people by daylight. Suddenly it's midnight and there's no sun or lamplight. If at some place you've been to, then of course it's possible in a place you've never been. Can you even manage to get hold of something?

[34:16]

Categority says, there's no light shining at midnight and you cannot see the truth. So in my talk two weeks ago, we talked a little about light and dark and the sandokai, it's a reference to that. But at midnight, there are light that allows us to make distinctions. We can see objects. Midnight, we can't see what's out there. But in this case, it's even deeper. We can't see the truth. I think it's a different kind of darkness. The darkness of the night. When you wake up in a nightmare and you think it's real. The ones that I've had include different versions of trying to do something I don't know how to do, which is a large part of it.

[35:21]

But people will be judging me on it, and I don't know how to do it. And that's the terror. There's a terror in that for me. What Katagiri Roshi said, there's no light shining at midnight and you cannot see the truth. Maybe you are stuck. And I'll paraphrase you, I'm like, you think you see things from a universal perspective, you know, like suddenly our perspective shifts. We've been sitting in Zazen, we're totally in those moments, totally in tune. It's that chatter about it that's the stuckness, where we see this universal place, you know, like I'm comfortable, I'm not in a place where people are causing me to suffer. and I'm not paying attention to the news, but maybe I'm really avoiding racism, my own motives, looking at them.

[36:22]

And he said, the more we look, the more we suffer. Yet we have to turn into that suffering. That's why bodhisattvas suffer, so we can help. We can understand and help, he says, and we're all bodhisattvas. Too bad, we are. He says, we must accept the place we've been and the place we've never been. Then we can become, we must touch into the realm of silence to go back to the nightmare. There's no place to touch. really scary. How do we get through that? How do we accept that? I don't know that... I don't know.

[37:24]

In the nightmare, I'm blind to relief, to joy, to love, to even... even the interim solution, but I could grasp something. And then from there, sometimes things shift and there's a place to stand. But this practice also cultivates and that's terrifying to me. Sometimes vast. I want to share a personal experience that I'm not quite sure what this kohan was talking about, but it means something to me about it. This last week I had thought I would do some research and I went in looking for thread.

[38:45]

I was going to look for what Nancy said to repair my rakasu, which was an incredible gift. My second rakasu was made by other people for me, and a great frontier spearheaded that, organized it, sort of like Yuan Wu organizing the Blue Cliff Records, only on a smaller scale, so it's passed down. this robe of precepts. She looked at the repairs and made a comment that was, oh, those need to be redone. And I looked at it and suddenly saw that my repair did not look like the original sewing on this thing. noticed this is where sometimes I would call it freedom you have those choice points in our practice or in our lives where you could go I feel I walked out feeling uncomfortable about it and I looked into it it was sort of a major realization you know it's like oh I feel choked up I feel shame

[40:15]

That wasn't the comment at all. I'd never seen the value of shame before. But I could just rest with it. And then I saw that that was just like a stop to get my attention. And I thought about it. I took it home where I did have some matching thread. And I thought, what am I going to do about this? I feel sorry for myself. I was like, that wasn't what was going on here, but I could sure make a story about it. And I took it home. And this is sort of a yay me story. I know that. But it really is sweet for me. And it was sweet to just get the teaching from my friend. Not that

[41:19]

no idea how much deliberation was there, but it really caused me to think and look at this and remember all the people who sewed it. Be given to me. Because normally I blow off things like Buddha's robe or bowing to the Buddha, or this is the Buddha, or this bowl is Buddha's head. Normally, I don't really have much patience for that. I'd rather go do something. But this cup, you know, and I sat down and I did some repairs, you know, because the stitches come out and you have to put them back in and you see some people sewing their robes a lot. And I'm going to have no comparison just doing it.

[42:23]

And I really thank deeply for the opportunity to have this experience. It was very special. And now you can see, am I clinging to that? How am I clinging to that? What does it mean for friendship? You know, it could just go into this spiral of nutsiness. I just wanted to share that that's what happened in my life recently, a little story. That a good thing is nothing. And we have to return to silence. And that's where our refreshment is. So... Yeah. Maybe a self-caring muscle got used a little more.

[43:25]

And maybe there's creativity in that darkness, in those hard times, that we can come to some sort of choice points on what happened to them. How do we flow from that? How do we go on? Because I wanted to do this. This is an expression of my life. You know, I have some things I want to say, but how to go on from here. Okay, we'll do that then. There's some really juicy stuff that I found in other places, but that's okay.

[44:30]

You've got other cans. I hate to tell you. Oh, I hate to hear that. Why do you think he used the kitchen pantry and the temple gate? What significance is that? You know, what category Roshi seemed to indicate is just like... Tell me what you think. Oh, what I thought. No, I... Okay. Do I think? Like, I'm delighted with the kitchen pantry. This is my life, he thinks. This is part of his life. The kitchen pantry, the main gate, really important parts of his daily life. Yeah. I don't know. You could go into all sorts of... Symbolism, I'm not good on that, but yeah. Yes, question.

[45:32]

When we sit zazam, open, our ears are open, our chests are open, our hearts, our minds, our pores. So why are we wrong when we open our mouths? Ooh. Good question. Heck. Because there are consequences, you know, to other people, whatever we say, you know, the thought of, oh, that was really stupid. hurting someone, or you just, it's not in the words. The other thing is our understanding, once we say something, it's wrong.

[46:36]

It's just gotta be. It's gotta be. Yeah. I don't, you know, I think that there's some idea that I'm not sure I agree with that, you know, the wordless silence understanding is more important than talking about it. So maybe that's all. Have you ever been in a Quaker church? I really want to go to a Quaker meeting. Yeah. So I went with my mother-in-law. It was such a relief. Nobody was talking. Anyway. Way back there, Mary. Thank you, Sue. You mentioned the nightmare in the middle of the night and the darkness of those feelings.

[47:36]

And it feels like nightmares that you talked about have a correlation or a parallel in the lovely Bacchus's ending story that you told about shame that arises and One word you used was accepting. And I've been struggling a little bit in my own line with the word accepting. It feels like it has a little bit of an edge. It could be accepting and going into resigning. Yes. The word I've been playing with is allowing and figuring out how to have internally. I guess this is a question. How to find the energy internally which is kind and generous toward those dark feelings.

[48:39]

If there's something about the story about the rock suit where there was an opening that felt like that. So I'm asking about that. What did you bring? You're going to have to repeat that. I'm going to repeat that, Mary. With your help. Did people hear that? No. Okay. Mary was asking about acceptance. No. the nightmares and how do we accept and find kindness towards ourselves, I guess, around nightmares and around shame and probably other uncomfortable emotions.

[49:42]

What else, Mary? You were talking about darkness. It is not the darkness in which everything exists, but darkness, which is the darkness of the soul. Yeah, the nightmare darkness. She's talking about how do we deal with that, really? Oh, God. I'll just tell you, I don't know. It's grace. The moments of kindness to ourselves and having a sangha. Taking care of something sometimes opens up for ourselves. Like, this rakasu is perfect. And not like perfect, like grasping perfect. It's just that, and even talking about it, that moment of meeting what this great gift that was given to me was in the past.

[50:51]

So what's present now, you know? Let go. Another layer to let go of. Another layer to accept. And then I think after a while, you get sort of bored with how I get sort of bored with, you know, all of the emotional drama and it's like, let's go do something fun. That's how I do it. Or that's what arises for me. I'm grateful that that's the case. Yeah, yes. And also I was wondering how maybe you remember the people who made it for you and your stitches blended with the love that you got from all those people who maybe you populated it. Yeah, maybe all the love that I got from all the people who made it populated some acceptance. I would say no, I don't think that way.

[51:52]

That's a nice idea, and I realize that other people think that way. I'm glad. Judy Fleischman. Thank you, Sue. So you've been modeling the practice for us, and just yesterday we had this whole bansan around our forms. And last week we heard a reminder about encouragements for commitments, particular areas of focus during practice period. And I was just pondering this in terms of the front gate. And so I'm wondering, what gets you through the gate to be here? to keep being with these forms, confusing as they might be, or bringing up shame or whatever it might be, what is it about that front gate?

[53:05]

Did you hear that question online in there? Yeah, good. The front gate, what gets me through it? I think what gets all of us through it. I don't think about it, I just come through. I have a cramp, sorry folks. This is embarrassing, the head student isn't supposed to have cramps. The whole thing can go. Thank you. I'll put that there and we'll see how we survive this. It happens. I can't believe this. Hello, Ross. Hey, so what you said when you were talking about the temple gate reminded me of Soja Roshi's encouragement that when there's a scary thing or a dark thing that we can't really adapt.

[54:19]

We shine a light on it. And in pondering a question, I thought, we come into the game, we come inside, not to keep in the dark, but actually to shine light on ourselves and see all this stuff that you've been illuminating for us. I'm wondering, in our walk up Russell Street, we were talking about the pantry. And the pantry is a storehouse of things. And we go in there and we create a meal. And that brings up or illuminates something about what we want to eat. And I'm wondering if those tie-ins work? Sure. The tie-ins of, you know, concrete physical reality, to the extent that that's there. and how to use it and how to use it.

[55:21]

There's another part later about don't, you know, playing with the forms and the light. That's a great part of joy, I think, and to remember that they're there. And so this cramp is sort of reminding me about physical reality in a way that's a little humbling. But thank you for your question. Oh, that was really fun. Yeah. Um, let's see. Oh my God. Guess what? We're almost done. And before we go, do you have time to say anything or is there anything you want to say? Um, just the only thing that occurs to me, just thinking about, uh, nothing is better than a good thing. This is like the sign for expert's class, which is going to be in the chapter, Believing in Nothing.

[56:30]

Oh, good. It's in my beginner's mind. But we pondered that. Yeah. What is nothing? And why is it a good thing? And I'm not going to say anything. You have to wait for the class. Well, you've already spoken to it. And you will again. So anyway, thank you. I'm going to see if I can do this again. Yikes. Thank you for listening and asking questions.

[57:03]

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