Good morning, everyone. Originally, Sojin Roshi was supposed to be the speaker. And since he has a rather large ceremony to take part in this afternoon, he's sort of, he's harboring, he's gathering his energies so that he can do that. I'm going to speak, maybe not at length, but I'd like to say what we're going to do, I think, today and to some degree what that means to me and to ask what that means to you. I've been thinking this morning that for almost 60 years, I've been playing what you might call mountain music.

[01:18]

And music from the southern parts of this country. And also that for the last... long number of years, I've been living on a mountain. And we've been practicing on a mountain. A temple, a Zen temple has two names. It has its temple name. And our temple name is Shogaku-ji, which is named after it's based on Suzuki Roshi's dharma name. And Temple also has a mountain name. And our mountain name is. Old Plum Mountain. And so all of us have been coming to the mountain day by day.

[02:21]

And climbing it, roaming about there. Old Plum Mountain. There used to be in the middle of the courtyard. A big old plum tree that became ill and we had to cut it down. It was like a death in the family when that happened. But it was right there in the middle of the courtyard between the Zendo and the community room. And every late winter it flowered. And then it bore fruit. And it bore a lot of fruit and left and deposited these sticky and delicious fruit all over the courtyard and made a lot of work for us to clean it up. But it was really good work.

[03:22]

So we live on Old Plum Mountain. And Sotin Roshi In 1984, he ascended the mountain. He had what is called a mountain seat ceremony. And they built a little platform in the Zendo and he symbolically climbs up in the mountain and is installed as the abbot. And some of you were at that ceremony. All those years ago. And today. At three o'clock. He is going formally. To descend that mountain. He's going to step down from from that place. Except for the fact that.

[04:25]

You could say. There is no mountain. There is no stepping up. And there is no stepping down. That is a perspective that I think it helps us to consider. So it put me in mind of a song and a koan. Maybe some of you remember from the 60s, if you're that old, the Donovan song. First, there is a mountain. First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is. The caterpillar sheds its skin to find a butterfly within. First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is. I didn't realize it, but what Donovan, who was actually a Buddhist practitioner, he was quoting a famous verse from the 9th century,

[05:31]

century Tang dynasty, Zen master, Qin Yuan Yixin, Qin Yuan Yixin. And Qin Yuan wrote, Qin Yuan Weishin, sorry. 30 years ago, before I practiced Zen, I saw that mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers. However, after having achieved some intimate knowledge and gotten a little way in, I saw that mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers. But now that I have found rest, as before, I see mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers. So it's maybe as before. or maybe there's a different view that he has. And one wonders, maybe we should ask Sojin directly how it is that he sees mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers and how he sees this mountain, how he sees the mountain that he has been invited to climb

[06:58]

And where he has prowled around for 35, 36 years. And as he symbolically descends from that mountain, is there any difference? So. What's going to happen this afternoon, which ordinarily would happen with the whole Sangha gathered in person, but we're going to gather on Zoom, is that a small procession, maybe five people or so, is going to meet Sochin Roshi and go around to the various altars and and offer flowers and respect and bows. And then we're gonna come up, ordinarily, you would come up to the abbot's room, but for health reasons, we've set that up outside in the courtyard.

[08:12]

And let's say all of this is going to be live streamed and also recorded. I really encourage you to come because it's a very important moment in our community life. So we'll gather around the table and Sojin Roshi will hand the seal, there's a temple seal that was carved for us out of marble, was carved by Hoetsu Suzuki, Suzuki Roshi's son and Hoetsu will be with us on the broadcast. afternoon. Anyway, the seal will be handed to Sojin Roshi and he'll examine it and then he will give it back to the board president. And that is really the important part of that part of the ceremony.

[09:16]

In this case, what we are also doing is we are inviting Sojin Roshi to take a new position. So when he hands back the seal, he will be given a scroll by the board president. And the scroll will invite him to take a new position, the position of founding Dharma teacher. And that will be a lifetime position. And there's only going to be one of them. It's only him because he's really our founding teacher. Um, and I, I hope I expect that he will, uh, accept that position. Uh, I think they've, I think the deal has already been made, but, uh, you never know what's going to happen. Uh, and then we're going to go into the Zendo and, uh, Sojan Roshi will make some offerings there and he'll sit down in his abbot seat.

[10:24]

for the last time as abbot, actually, and give a short talk or statement. And then various short words of appreciation from a selected number of people. And then Sojin Roshi and the procession will leave. And that will be the end of ceremony. It's actually a pretty simple ceremony. But it's powerful because he has been inhabiting that mountain for so long. And so many of us owe so much of our lives to the stability that he has manifest while living on that mountain. And that he has... really transmitted and shared to many of us.

[11:28]

And so even though we may have come a bit wild and rough around the edges, he has accepted all of us. Each of us and all of us have been accepted onto Old Plum Mountain and given a place to to live and practice there. And I was thinking over the span of Sojan Roshi being the priest here at Berkeley Zen Center, how much has happened, how much turmoil there's been in our world. Zen Center was, Berkeley Zen Center was founded in the midst of the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights Movement, the psychedelic upheaval.

[12:41]

We've gone through two wars in the Gulf. We've gone through I don't know how many presidents. We have seen turmoil. We've seen murders in our neighborhood, even in our sangha. We have lived now with the pandemic for nine months. And all of that has happened while we were living on this mountain. and while we were taking guidance from Sojin Roshi. Originally, in China, Zen monasteries were established in the mountains.

[13:46]

That's why they had mountain names. And they were remote. They were removed from the hustle and bustle of the life in the cities and the politics and the jockeying for power and position. And they were seen as kind of remote and retreat places. But I'm not sure that it was ever really that way. I know when I first went to Tassahara for a short practice period, I thought I was very far away from home. But the events of home, events, things happened in my family, they reached all the way down that dirt road and came right to my door there.

[14:51]

had to be responded to. So the mountain that we live in, that we live on, is the mountain right in the middle of the world. It is not remote from anything, it's right there. And this I think is very important to remember. And I think that this is, This is part of the essence of our family style and of what Sojin Roshi had in mind. He just wanted to, when he moved to Dwight Way, he just had his teacher's request. He just set up a place to sit and said, I'm just going to show up there and sit and anybody who wants to sit can join me. And that's what we've been doing for more than 50 years now.

[15:56]

And we've done it in the midst of turmoil, in the midst of great loss, in the midst of grief, in the midst also of children being born and growing up, in the midst of the whole catastrophe. on this mountain, and the mountain is not remote in any way. And this was his vision. He didn't see a place that was somehow a cloistered retreat. Rather, he saw a place where people could find refuge within their everyday life. within our everyday life. And that's quite unique. I can only think of a few places that have created the steadiness and intensity and in depth of the program that we have at Berkeley Zen Center, while not really being a monastery, but really being

[17:20]

a lay practice, a practice for people who have jobs and families, who grow older together, who have medical problems and so forth. And this is what Sojourn Roshri has transmitted to us over all these years. We were talking about, he and I were talking in his office the other day, He's working with Ron, Nestor, and Kika, Elaine, on a book of his talks. And I think the three of them together are doing a really wonderful job, a wonderful impossible job, culling about 3,000 talks, literally, that have been recorded. Some have been transcribed. A lot of them haven't been transcribed. And they're wonderful.

[18:23]

And once they get refined, they're, I think, very valuable. But we were talking because I was supposed to write something for this book. And so there's, by way of introduction, there is kind of introduction to the Dharma that's contained in the talks. And perhaps there's an introduction to I mean, I have I've attended almost all of the talks in the last 30, 35 years, you know, except for when I've been out of town. And this is very precious to me. But the true teaching has just been to hang out on the mountain. And. Watch. how Sojin practices, how he interacts with people, and the spirit that he tries to convey to us who sometimes are a bit thick-headed and resistant, but he doesn't give that up.

[19:41]

And so it's the living of this Dharma that to me is the most and the most rare opportunity that all of us have to live with and be with our teacher for all these years and to have him be ordinary in the best sense of the world. His dharma name is Hakuryu Sojin. He received the name Sojin from Suzuki Roshi when he had priest ordination. He just received that one two-syllable name, two-character name. That means Essence of Purity. And then when he received Dharma transmission from Hoitsu Suzuki Roshi, Hoitsu Roshi gave him a second name, Akuryu, which means

[20:49]

white dragon. So we've been living in and around this dragon for all these years. And, you know, on the one hand, you've got to be careful with dragons. But at the same time, the dragon is a protector and creates a Reality of safety. And I feel like that's that's what I've been blessed with. And that's what what many of us have. And it's quite remarkable because it's not certainly isn't an idea that I ever would have had before I came here. You know, it's not how I could have imagined living or what I thought was, you know, going to unfold in my lives. My life or lives. And I'm not sure any of us could have imagined it, but it is what happened.

[21:56]

And today, even though Sojin Roshi is stepping down off the mountain, he's not going anywhere. It's true, his health is declining. His energy is declining. And it's really important at this stage in his life for him to finish some of the writing projects and some of the other things that he's really wanted to do at the same time as he's not becoming a different person, he's the same person. And, you know, he'll be continuing to meet with people as they need him, and he'll be continuing, hopefully, to do his online group, Dokusan, and to give talks. So there will be a change, but it's a little hard to quantify it.

[23:06]

It's certainly impossible to qualify it. We will have to see. I feel like I should say something about how I feel in this. And to be honest with you, I don't exactly know. I feel like for the last number of months, like all of you have just been taking things step by step. And more than ever in my life, That seems the way to do it. I'm not making any plans. I'm not planning to go anywhere. I'm just sort of taking it step by step here at home. I think the idea is that at some point before the end of the year, the board will offer

[24:18]

will offer me the opportunity to climb the mountain. And probably I'll do that. But I don't know what that means. I don't know how that's going to be. How will it be different from what I've been practicing? And it's not that I have anxiety about that. It's just I truly don't know. And in the last couple of weeks, I've just, I've not even been thinking about it. I, you know, I'm really focused on how gracefully we can manage the transition today. You know, how deeply we can honor Sojin Reishi, that we can celebrate him and also feel our own grief and i think that that's i'm sort of included in that with all of you um i just want to say and i'll say this again the ceremony that uh we've had a really great working team uh pulling the ceremony together which is

[25:45]

The whole thing is much more technically complicated than anything that we've done before. And we've had a lot of great assistance, which we'll cite this afternoon. But I want to particularly thank Steve Weintraub, who agreed to be the director for the ceremony. Many of you may not know Steve. Steve is a transmitted disciple of Sojin Roshi's. He lives at Green Gulch Farm. He was a student of Suzuki Roshis from about 1968. And just a very, it's just a very even tempered, smart, kind, steady person. And he has really communicated a sense of confidence and ease to all of us, even in circumstances that are a little chaotic.

[26:58]

So I'm going to close, I think, by reading this, these words from Qinyuan once more. And maybe you have some reflection on this. Thirty years ago, before I practiced Zen, I saw that mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers. However, after having achieved some knowledge and having gotten a little ways in, I saw that mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers. But now that I have found rest, just as before, I see mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers. So with that, I think I'm going to end and open up to questions and comments, which I'll let Lake facilitate if that's okay. So thank you.

[27:59]

Thank you, Hozan. I invite you to raise your virtual hand and ask a brief question. and direct question. You can also type questions into the chat and please put the word question in front of it and then type and I will read it. Please step forward. See Raghav. I invite Raghav to unmute himself and ask a question. If you know it will be a problem, if you don't know it will be a problem, what are you going to do?

[29:04]

Don't be stupid. If there's something you can know, then you can deal with that. Then you have some basis for dealing with that problem. If you can't know it, be careful. But just to say, you know, we have, there's a lot of teachings about not knowing. And we sort of put it up on a pedestal. And I've gotten into arguments with some people who are particularly emphasize that side of not knowing. And I really think that not knowing doesn't mean knowing nothing.

[30:15]

Not knowing doesn't mean not to avail yourself of information that you can. Not knowing just means I don't know how this is going to work out. And even if I have the best information and the best intention, I then have to observe what's happening because what occurs is may very well have some mixture of positive and negative aspects. So maybe that's enough. Thank you for that question. I invite Heiko to unmute himself and ask a question. Hozan sensei, thank you for being here in the gap, being here in person. My question is, this not knowing thing exactly and uh here you are looking at mountains and anticipating perhaps the flow of rivers uh yet you're saying i'm not sure you know what's going to happen on thursday or whatever day it is that your mountain seat ascension may be i have a feeling that it's pretty certain and i wonder if you could put your foot down

[31:45]

on really how you feel with the certain uncertainty, with the known unknown, if there's anything of that going on even for you. Well, thank you. I honestly don't know. And I feel... You know, on one hand, there's been, I've learned a lot. I have a lot of preparation, but things turn really quickly. I mean, we thought we knew a lot of things about our practice and all of a sudden the pandemic comes in and so it's the whole thing on its head. And so we really have to recognize that we don't know. And I think to me, that's part of what

[32:46]

this koan is about, that you have to recognize that each of these so-called stages that Ching Yuan outlines is based on one's thoughts and perceptions. So what I would say is that in each stage, you have a certain, you have a feeling tone or you have a certain broad understanding, but you need to recognize it's still, it's all in your mind. If you think mountains and mountains are really there and rivers are really there, that's in your mind. If you think that they're not, that's in your mind. If you think that they are again and you have a different, more complex understanding, that's in your mind. So whatever ideas I have in my mind have to be shaped by what actually And that's something that I don't have any, I don't have any, I don't necessarily have a lot of power over.

[33:56]

But what I do think about our practice is that our practice is designed to allow us to build the capacity for uncertainty. to build our ability to meet circumstances that we don't fully understand without getting thrown into the mud by them, but standing upright in those circumstances. And that's... That's what I say. That's what I intend to do. And I feel like that has been the thrust of Sojin Roshi's teaching for all of us. And I also know that sometimes we'll stand up and sometimes we'll fall down.

[35:00]

But as I said before, what's really important when you fall down is get up. Suzuki Roshi says, stand up by the ground. If you've fallen on the ground, you use your hands to lift yourself back up onto your feet. And that's a much better solution than rolling around on the ground and saying, you know, I'm on the ground, I'm on the ground, I'm getting dirty, I'm getting full of mud, you know, like that. That doesn't help anything. Of course, there's always another side. There's a story of Lehmann Pong's daughter, which is one of my favorite stories. They were out walking to market, and he tripped and fell down on the ground. And he was lying there, and he looked over his daughter, and she threw herself on the ground.

[36:08]

And he said, what are you doing? And she said, Papa, I'm helping. So there's always another side. Thank you very much, Hozan. And I am surprised how much I admire the heroism of your holding position, staying where you are. And I was hoping you would anticipate. Thank you so much. Thank you, Heiko. Thank you, Hozan and Heiko. Kurt asks, will you do this song later? And perhaps you won't do it today, but in the future, you can regale us with your guitar. I would love to. Let me... Here's what's going on. And this is part of the reality of our lives. What I've noticed for... the last five or ten years is that it's harder and harder for me to sing.

[37:15]

And I've had this fully examined and it turns out I have a partially paralyzed right vocal cord. And there's nothing really they can do about it because my speaking voice is fairly normal. But if I listen to tapes of my singing, you know, which I have a lot, or tapes of my chanting, you know, my voice was very different. And I will say that has been emotionally really difficult, really difficult not to sing because it's one of the greatest pleasures and it's something that's still, it's happening in my head and it's something I think it's the experience that we all have of having to let go of things as we grow older. So I don't know.

[38:17]

I'm sure that I will sing again here. And also I'm trying to figure out how to sing. And basically, I think what's really good is to not have such high standards. So I'll do my best, but not today. I see it, Dick. I invite Dick to unmute himself and ask a question. No. Hang on. Is that better? No. It sounds like there's two devices going on in your place, like a phone and a computer or two computers. One of them has to be off.

[39:19]

Yes, so you might want to go ahead and turn the volume that you hear from your computer off. Okay. Ask the question and then... Is that better? Perfect. Can you hear me now? Now I've got to... Yeah, yeah. I'll come back to this. I've got to figure the rest out. I'll be right back. Okay. Go on to someone else. We can hear you fine if you'd like to ask your question now. Megan Collins, thank you for your help in the chats. Megan Collins, I invite you to unmute yourself and ask a question. Okay, let me move on.

[40:44]

Stephanie Solar. Oh, we're coming again with Dick. We're ready? Am I being heard now? Yes. Now we have a bunch of people, and this is wonderful. It's wonderful. So Dick, speaking on Stephanie's Solaris computer, could you hold on for a second? And then Megan Collins, we can hear you. Please ask a question. I say, so Hozan, Sangha has always been very important to me in my life at Berkeley Zen Center. And I feel very isolated. during this time. Have you any suggestion? I think that structurally, this is a very easy moment to feel isolated in.

[41:49]

I think that one thing that you could do or we could do would be to have a small group that that meets with you online that's the best that we can do you know uh and it's it's hard because you feel isolated we feel that you are completely part of the sangha but that's not necessarily what's supportive to you what do you think would work Megan, you have to unmute yourself again. This is good, what we're doing now. Yeah. Well, I would invite you. You know, I'm having some teas with people. Certainly, you can come to those and to Sojin's Open Dokusan.

[42:57]

And, you know, an opportunity just to be with people. You're completely welcome there, for sure. OK, thank you. You're welcome. So let me again invite, invite. Dick through Stephanie Solar's computer, please unmute yourself and ask a question. Are you muted? Is that better? Yes. Perfect. Now we can hear each other. Thank you. Well, greetings, everyone. I was in the process of writing a poem for Sojin, and I was wondering if it might be appropriate to read it now and see if it's something I should read in this afternoon ceremony.

[44:06]

Hang on. Hang on. Let me make a suggestion. Yeah. Well, first of all, people won't be reading the people this afternoon. There's not going to be a kind of open forum. But tomorrow night, if you can come to the open sangha meeting tomorrow night, you can read your poem to everyone. Good. That's the place, you know, because we had to argue. We had to argue with Sochin to have even nine or ten. speaking for two minutes of appreciation. All of us owe so much appreciation that, unfortunately, he would be sitting there for about a year before we got through with all of this. But what I would suggest is, you know, don't telegraph your poem. Save it and read it on Sunday night. Done.

[45:07]

Can you do that? Sure. Great. Thank you. Well, we have time for a few more if there are a couple more questions. So there was a suggestion that we start vigorously doing Friday afternoon teas with senior students. So that was out there. Please raise your hand and I want to thank you for your patience. And there are many people that don't come often. So you can unmute yourself and ask a question if you don't know how to get to the blue hand, because I know there are some people who don't often come through Zoom, but because of the events for today are here for the first time. Yeah, and there are a lot of people that we don't know. And I'd love to hear from you even briefly. Hozan, hi.

[46:18]

My name is Sean. Hi, Sean. Where are you? I'm in Berkeley, probably about three blocks from you, probably. I'm just up on Wheeler. You know, I just wanted to suggest you mentioned something about your vocal cord, and there's a guy by the name of Raz Kennedy. I know him. You do? Okay. I had a lesson with him. Yeah. Oh, man. And he messed your vocal cords up. No, no, no. He did not. No, he didn't. He was he was great. But. Yeah, I mean, it's a complicated discussion, but he is an incredible vocal coach. Yes. Yeah. And that I was just going to suggest he may know something about the frozen vocal cord. We talked about it. Yeah. OK, great. Thank you. All right. Yeah. Thanks. I invite Kabir to unmute himself and ask a question.

[47:22]

Hi, Hozan. Hi, Kabir. Well, I just want to say thank you so much again, as always. Great talk. I was flipping to something the other day and read something about Bodhidharma when he told that king in China that all Buddha's teachings are empty. And that's when the king got upset and Bodhidharma left to Japan. So what exactly he meant that all Buddha teachings are empty? Well, he was speaking in a particular context. The context of that conversation was that Emperor Wu basically, he said, I built all these temples and stupas, you know, what merit is there in this? You know, wanting to know, it's like, okay, what do I get back from this? And Bodhinova said, basically said, nothing.

[48:36]

No merit whatsoever. That was his answer, his tough medicine to to a king who wanted to get value for his actions. But to me, it's not a categorical statement. And so in that, there's a number of different versions of that story, but they're all pretty much the same. And when Emperor Wu got mad, got irritated, then he said, you know, who was talking to me? And Bodhidharma said, I don't know. Then he turned around and walked away. And Emperor Wu turned to his assistant and said,

[49:43]

Basically said, who was that masked man? Anyway, yeah, it was every teaching is a medicine or corrective to something that's out of balance. And in this case, Bodinarm was giving a tough response to a question that he thought was... going to be problematic for the emperor. Sort of like his expectation, like what's in it for me type of attitude, you know, like kind of like the gaining mind that the emperor had and, you know, sort of. Well, yeah, but it's also part of the challenge is that it's the emperor was doing what was expected of him. You're expected is a tradition. Of merit making. I see. Okay. But when we, it's not that we're not making merit.

[50:51]

It's that when we dedicate that merit, we give it away. You know, we give it away. It's not for, sometimes merit is seen as a kind of, it's a transaction. I make merit so I can have a more auspicious rebirth. But in Mahayana, we make merit and we give it away for the well-being of all life. And that's I think that's what Bodhidharma was teaching. Oh, perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Perhaps a couple of more questions. Elizabeth Horowitz, did you have a question? Somebody indicated that you did. I invite you to unmute yourself. I think it was Elizabeth R. Elizabeth H-O-R-R? No, I don't have a question. Oh, okay.

[51:51]

Does it say Elizabeth Horowitz's iPad? Because that's where Mel is on. Yes. Raghav seemed as maybe there are two Elizabeth. There are. There's me and there's Mel. We're on different devices. Hold on. Let me go and see if Mel wanted to say something. Blake, if I may. Yes. Elizabeth R-O-R-R. She's raising her hand in the screen. Okay. Okay. Different Elizabeth. Let's hear from her. Yes. Thank you, Hosan, and thank you, everyone. Where are you, by the way? I am in Los Gatos. I am a... student of Shinshu Roberts and Jakku. I received the precepts from Shinshu about three years ago. And in addition to studying with them, I've enjoyed so many of your talks, your podcasts, and Sojin Roshi's

[53:05]

podcasts and have become very heartfelt and close to you all. And it's kind of strange since this is the first time I've seen you in person, but today is such an auspicious day. I wanted just to express my gratitude and joy for being here. Thank you. Thank you. And just to say that your teachers are my good friends and they were inspirational to me in actually deciding to become a priest when we practiced together at Tassahara in 1988. I'm always in close contact with them. So thank you. Thank you. One more thing. I'm very interested in the open Don't could son nights and as well as teas.

[54:09]

Could you tell me a little more about that, please? Yeah, I will write you. I think it's on the BCC website. And I think that I'll let me just see if there's I'm looking in the chat. Yes. In the chat, I've just posted the announcements, and you can take a look at the chat, and the person to contact to sign up for the DocuSan, his email is in there. Okay. Can you put Hannah's email to sign up for the T's? If somebody else who knows that email. If somebody could do that while I'm talking, that would be great. Yes. Hannah Miara is the contact for my T's. Yes, or chat me, and I will chat everybody. Okay. So there was one more hand, maybe. Yes, Andrea Thatch. Please unmute yourself and ask a question. Thank you, Blake.

[55:13]

And thank you, Hozan. I actually took my hand down, but I'll take the opportunity to circle back around and thank you. Not seeing Hozan's picture, and I would like to hear as I exchange with him, but... I want to thank you very much for your talk and for setting the scene for the ceremony this afternoon. I was very moved as you were talking. I was surprised. I was caught off guard by the emotion as you described the walking around from altar to altar. And it evoked for me the numbers of times over the last decades we've walked around As a Sangha from altar to altar to begin a practice period. And smaller groups for Jukai. So many people who are here on this Zoom conference for each of the priest ordinations. And maybe most powerfully for those of us who've been Shuso in preparation for the Shuso ceremonies.

[56:20]

And as I was thinking about the strength of the emotion, there was some grief. about this change. But I also recognize that the ceremonial, that kind of mysterious elements of the ceremonial space and the ritual that we're about to undergo as a group this afternoon creates the possibility of something quite extraordinary in that change. We think we know what's going to happen, but we really have no idea. I'm very much appreciating the opportunity to open to that with everyone here in the context of your skillful talk and also together in the ritual this afternoon, that in the power of the ceremony, something will happen and we don't exactly know what that is. Right. There's something about the ritual space that allows an opening.

[57:25]

You know, it allows us to the ritual as part of a ritual. One always has to cross a threshold. And. I would just encourage all of us to. Be aware and be responsive to whatever it is that we feel. And I think that that is at the heart of our practice of Soto practice is actually. That every moment is that ritual space. That every moment we want to cultivate that openness, that receptivity. And we learn this by actually doing the practice of ritual. And then gradually it suffuses through our life. So just surprising things will come up this afternoon. And I hope we can all just really feel them completely.

[58:31]

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