I started volunteering as a chaplain with a New York City hospital to serve as a chaplain visiting with patients with COVID, with the virus, by phone. And, you know, I realize I need to look at the camera, right, for you to see me head on. But I'm also trying to look at my notes, and I'm looking at all of you, you know, as I would in the physical Zendo. So this is quite an interesting moment. And the thing about calling these people who are... living with this virus, where all you have to connect, right, like this headset, is just that phone.

[01:02]

Life changes very fast. And I have this sheet of names with phone numbers and rooms, and I'm calling them, and most of them, it rings and rings and rings, and you put on the form, did not answer. And it rings and rings and rings. And you did not answer. And what happened for me is that as I was going through that process, I realized, and you could call it imagination, but I was really touching into what's going on for that person right now that they're not picking up. I had seen... various reports about what's going on. I could imagine, but I didn't really know. And what I realized is I was beginning to really connect with myself, with the person on the other end.

[02:10]

And then I'd call and somebody would pick up. And it was amazing. It was instant connection. It was instantly being real because the thing about being faced with you don't know if and maybe you do make it, but you don't know what's coming. You don't even know how to feel about what's just happened and what's happening right now. And so what I noticed is whatever people are sharing, it's very deep, it's very meaningful, it's very real. There's sort of no extra stuff happening. And I realized as I was doing this, even though I couldn't see, right, couldn't physically see the person, I felt,

[03:16]

and just as importantly, maybe more so, that I was really seeing, that I was deeply to this shared moment that we were embodying, actually a body, a whole body together. And that was a moment of making refuge. Somebody might ask, well, what's the difference between taking refuge or going for refuge or these ways that we phrase it? Well, really nothing, because language is adaptable. It's really about the tone and the heart and the, how to say it, the 100% in it. So making refuge is that steady showing up moment after moment to really be in deep connection.

[04:29]

Or I think Hozan, when he was asked some months ago, you know, does Zen ever talk about love? And he offered, because love can be spun in a lot of ways, that we're in deep connection. And I really feel that. It's very clear. So that's the story. And, you know, there's a moment of really seeing through it. And during this time. When. We haven't been, we have a few opportunities during the week to actually chant together in this Zendo format.

[05:30]

And at the same time, my body really remembers chanting the Heart Sutra every day. So I'm chanting the Heart Sutra every day, and maybe some of you are too, or even if we don't. chanting the Heart Sutra, it's just, it's flowing through us. It's our heartbeat, actually. And there's this line in the Heart Sutra of Avalokiteshvara, you know, in our translation, I think it goes, when practicing deep prajnaparamita, clear... And there are many translations. One thing I realized during this time... is how Avalokiteshvara, you know, one of the expressions of Avalokiteshvara is all these hands, and in each hand there's an eye. And it's often spun as Avalokiteshvara has these ways to respond, to hear first of all, to be listening deeply, or even hearing with those eyes, seeing with the heart.

[06:44]

The cry... But what I realized as I was talking to these people, coping with COVID, was that those arms, those ever-shifting arms and hands and eyes, are actually our different realities. You know, kind of like all our little boxes here. So we're expressing that. Prajnaparamita, however you want to hear that. Wisdom beyond wisdom. We actually don't translate it so that we can really be with what is that as we study together what that is. Well, amazingly, at the same time that we're doing this right now, there's

[07:49]

something happening called Genzoe, which is taught by, well, I would call him a world treasure, Shohaku Akamura, from his Nianas and Shinji. And a few times a year, he teaches this thing called Genzoe, which is studying Dogen and Shobo Genzo. different parts of it. And that's happening right now. And I'm fortunate that I'm participating in that by Zoom. And wouldn't you know it, this morning, you blew my mind open. I'm not alone, 90 people in that room. But I wanted to share something that I heard him say about all this, which is that he said, that in the Makahanya Haramita, the Japanese version of the Heart Sutra, an object gets switched.

[09:08]

So the emphasis isn't on Avalokiteshvara, Practicing, clearly seeing. It's really about the whole body. Say time, or you could say this moment. And so the way he said, the way we could say this is that the whole body is practicing and clearly seeing with interconnectedness the emptiness of our story. My story, your story. Or we could say, and we touch into something that's quite different than who you or I or even we collectively think our life is. And rather we express it. And that's what those arms are all about.

[10:11]

is ways to express that than meet the particularity of the particular reality we're living in. Because we are living in vastly different realities. You know, whether it's because of wealth distribution, say, in this country, you know, if we're talking on that scale, or white supremacy as... big part of the legacy and how that impacts who gets health care or who lives or dies if the police show up or gender fluidity or sexual orientation we could we could name particulars that actually impact our reality and also give us an opportunity to really express our unique reality in a way that really touches deeply into the shared reality of what do we call it?

[11:25]

We could call that making refuge. You know, Suzuki Roshi called it interdependency, which is really very marvelous because You know, one of the things that our teachers who came here to meet a new culture, they made up words. And we actually have that freedom, or phrases, like making refuge. How we translate, how we express the Dharma. And so, you know, what I'm wondering is, shows up for you right now know the reality that you're actually living and the if you will the wisdom the compassion that you're expressing the ways that maybe yours plays out and what helps you to really deepen connection

[12:32]

And see it for what it is. Really an opportunity to deeply connect what's real. And that, you know, and all that shape-shifting like we've been doing in this time of great adaptability to stay connected is both many realities and one reality. No. Not two, not one. And what includes not two and not one? How do we get beyond the story while maintaining the integrity of what he shines light on? Because it seems to me that that's the opportunity of this time of sheltering in place. It's really that shelter is really a refuge.

[13:41]

And just like any shelter that you have to put together, and that falls apart, put it together again. That's why it's practice. Somebody said to me at the beginning of this whole time, months ago, you know, it feels like the whole world is in a practice period. And this... that our Sangha would have been in a practice period, so maybe we are. Time of intensified practice of making refuge. So now we have some time for some conversation around this. And as we move into that, I just want to invite you, invite all of us, just to... Check in with your body right now. We've been sitting a while, so if you need to adjust your posture for a moment.

[14:45]

And just returning to the breath. Ask yourself, really look deeply. What's my reality right now? What's real? What's... Maybe in that, what's the story that I'm telling myself about it, if there is one? In that, what would be important to share about that? There would be some way for you. of deeply connecting with yourself and in Sangha, with everyone here. Take a moment to touch into that.

[15:48]

And this is the freedom that we have to... to really feel the whole body, the whole body of everyone here and of everyone everywhere. So I want to invite us as we go into a conversation to slow down that process a little, and for a purpose, which is that I really want to encourage those of us who don't usually speak when we get together this way. And there are a lot of reasons for it. I don't know about you, but despite the fact that I'm the talking head right now, I have a lot of anxiety that comes up when it comes to me, or so I think.

[17:08]

Or when, you know, I can feel something turning in there, but I don't quite know what my question is. So I don't really want to raise my hand because I'm not quite sure what it is. Now, for some of us, that's actually really important. Wait until. But I think for a lot of us, that's a cause of hesitation. And I want to encourage you, if that's you, don't wait. Because part of what's happening is in our dialogue. Something is revealed. That refuge is made as we deeply. So Tom, our director, is going to say a little more about how we're going to step into what we traditionally call questions Q&A, but we could call it discussion. There are two ways that we're going to be able to do that today.

[18:10]

So, Tom, would you let us know? I'm deeply touched by what you said, Judy, and I want to thank you for that. And I don't actually know what my question is. What's going on is I'm just feeling a lot of different... body well maybe they're not different I'm feeling a lot in my body in ways that I don't necessarily usually feel and I feel moved and and I'm thinking about the the whole situation we're all in and how I have been seeing it I immediately when it started saw it as a retreat you know a meditation retreat and And one of the things that's happening for me is an increased awareness, not awareness, that's the wrong word, and sensitivity to what is going on in my purview and in my responses to that.

[19:24]

And it's difficult because sometimes it's really not something... It feels comfortable or safe or anything. And it's also valuable. And I partly spoke up because I am one of the people who does not speak up. And because I'm waiting to be clear. And what I think I'm... Getting is the value of this lack of clarity, of this intensity that I'm feeling. And that's what life is. I mean, when I first became involved with meditation, I read a lot of Stephen Levine, and it was really helpful to me. And this is just don't know amplified.

[20:27]

And that was very valuable for me then. I'm getting right now is that it's still just as valuable for me now. And I think what I'm getting out of this is a greater willingness to be in that. And you have opened the door for that. And so I want to thank you. Well, I'm so glad that you spoke up in sharing your heart wisdom. Yeah, that thing about... I have that come up a lot as well, which is this sense of, well, if I'm not clear, but what I heard you really point to, the sense of I'm not clear has everything to do with this not knowing. And it's in the not knowing that we're actually connecting with what's real. Yeah. So in a way, what I'm hearing you say is, what helps to hold that space up?

[21:31]

And for me today, it's you naming and claiming it. And we can really connect around that and remember how to practice with that. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you. Excuse me, Judy. We have a few questions in the chat room. Would you like to hear those or call on people with raised hands? No, please. Let's hear some of those. Okay. Let's see. So it looks like Ken asks, can you say a little bit more about what you do when you feel like not having your video chat on? Can you read that one more time? Yeah, sure. This is from Ken who asks, can you say a little bit more about what you do when you feel like not having your video on during... Well, my first thought is mischievous mind comes to mind, you know, of what can be happening when I turn the camera off, right?

[22:46]

But more seriously, for me, what I think is that when I don't have a profile photo, when it's just my name, I actually feel more ease. Because then it's sort of like when we face the wall or we face somebody's back. It's just there's this open space to just rest, to just fall into. And you have to have something. So it's just in this technology. So it's going to be whatever your name is or you choose your name to be. that black screen. And so I notice, like, if I go into gallery view and I see a whole bunch of black screens with just names, I actually in a certain way feel more ease. It feels more like facing the wall.

[23:49]

So that's one of the things that comes up for me. But of course, Tan, I'm wondering what comes up for you. I don't know where you're coming in from or if you want a voice, but if anybody is dialing in, you can press star six on mic. So if you want to. I guess I can. I think for me, when I am not feeling like having my video on or... what not participate doing something that i feel participating fully in some way i feel like i'm letting people down um but i'm really happy to hear your perspective on it uh it helps me not feel as negative about my own moment to moment needs so so ten if you don't mind i'm wondering what what

[24:57]

What do you think that story is that you're touching into that we can really connect around, you know, that really connects the dots? I don't know what you're asking. I don't really feel like I have much more to share, so maybe we'll just go to the next person. Okay, great. Good. Thanks. Good. So thank you, Tan, and thank you for being willing to... To say what's true for you in the moment, including that's enough. Yeah. Thank you. It's gone for all of us of what it really means to, you know, say have an idea of what it means to be fully participating, particularly when we're in this strange new uncharted territory of being together and finding, making refuge together. So David. Hi, Judy. I'm David.

[25:58]

My question was... Where did it go? I'm finding my practice shifting from attached in that it starts out with a genuine openness and then shifts to... wanting to fix other people and situations and, and using it to try and troll everybody to get out of my way and be as minimally distracted as possible. Um, and to get the world to, to kind of fall into what I want. And, um, I guess, uh, what do you do when that, when that, um, Let me ask you this. What's the force? The force? What is the force in that moment? You're a Jedi.

[27:04]

Oh, oh, oh. I don't know. The force is the self. I don't know. That's a great question. That's a great question for you. You know, there you are with your, well, maybe your lightsaber is not really drawn. Maybe it's just in your, yeah, it's there, right? It's pulsing. You know it has a power, but how will you? So what do you think is really most important when you're reaching out to that impulse to fix? What's underneath that? What is it that you're really wanting in relationship to those folks or those parts? Yeah, I think it's not as beneficial. And usually it's more to minimize distraction from my own self-seeking desire.

[28:09]

Great. So we have teaching of turning the light inward. So you could imagine that you're on the receiving end, right? Because to be a Jedi, you have to first learn how to Work with the force so that you're not worked by it. And it's the same way. Now, how will you shine that light inwards? You're doing it right now. And also, how you're doing it, how we're doing it, is you're sharing it so we can meet, so we can have a moment of really feeling that. And that it's not about fixing that. It's about really... noticing it and being gently curious about it. Huh, so there I am distracting myself. Gosh, what am I distracting myself from? And then what's going to help me to turn just a little bit towards that, to shine a little light on me?

[29:13]

I'm not trying to push anything, but just to see a little more clearly. That's your bodhisattva. And that's... And that's us in conversation, so I'm really glad that you shared that. Stan says, thank you, Judy. What happened with your unemployment? I hope you got that. I don't know. But the funny thing is I got the, it's called a debit card that you get to take the money out with. I got that in the mail, and I checked the balance. It has zero dollars. Hopefully that like millions of Americans, if we just keep checking in, which is what I'm doing with the unemployment office, that something's going to shift.

[30:15]

Thanks for asking. Okay, there's another question that just came in. Would you like to hear it? Okay, this is from Andrea Henderson, who says, Thank you, Judy. I totally identify with the desire to be seen slash heard. My struggle kept me away from online community. I just returned last week. I woke up this morning with a deep sadness to be in a physical Zendo. Deep sadness to be in a physical Zendo. I'm glad that I showed up this morning. I'm still longing for the Zendo, but I feel more connected. I'm not alone in my feelings of being seen and heard. Practice is practice. I have no questions right now, only gratitude. Well, thank you so much. It's good to have you here. And it's really good what you had to say, what you have to say, and how you said it.

[31:22]

I think many of us are grieving the loss for the moment of physically being in the same room together at the same time of holding gratitude that we sway. And, you know, it's important to touch into both of those during this time, I think. And maybe what connects the dots there is practice, is love, is that... That's making refuge. I see you have your hand up. Hi, Judy. Hey there. Thanks for your talk. Ross asked a question in the chat that really struck me and that I wanted to put forward. He asked, what's the difference between not knowing and confusion? That's sort of hits the nail on the head for something I've been dealing with constantly.

[32:25]

So I just wanted to hear your thoughts. So when you feel confusion, and also maybe now is such a moment because you asked me, would that be accurate to say? Are you feeling a bit confused? Not... I think a lot of my confusion has been put on the back burner for this discussion, but it's definitely there. And it's a constant distracting force for me. Great. So that bridges to the conversation we were just having about distraction, what distracts, and what it's distracting from. So the confusion, I don't know where you feel it in your body, like even right now. It's sort of like a little, you know, it's a little river flowing, or maybe it's a little creek right now. You can sort of feel, at least that's how I'm feeling it, it's a kind of gurgling. I feel it a lot in my chest.

[33:28]

Sometimes it's a hollowness in my stomach. It's just this sort of buzziness or something always there. It's just the beauty is not knowing allows you to turn towards that gently and with care. because you actually don't need to know what is that. You know, it's not necessarily pulling up a chair right in front of that confusion in the eye and going, dude, what are you distracting me from? Or dude, what's up? Or whatever your ways of saying that, right? It's just about being with. Can I be with that energy in my body? in the world, whatever that is for you, and really just keep turning towards it and be gently curious about it, but not in a probing way, just in a gently curious way, like, huh, huh.

[34:33]

And if you do notice, the first eye is seeing, huh, there's something in there about distracting myself. What am I distracting myself from? Just to be curious about that, not to shine a spotlight. It's not a spotlight. It's just a gentle curiosity. And then knowing comes in. It's sort of like that lightsaber. It just shines light on whatever needs attention. And maybe, maybe, just maybe it was voicing today. And also what you did and what I've seen you do. And someone else's question is your own, because that really makes refuge also. So thank you.

[35:23]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_93.58