Anything left over from last time that you've been thinking about? There's a couple of things that I want to go over. One is when we talked about the carved dragon and the true dragon. I want to say a little bit more about the carved dragon and the true dragon and what Dogen means by carved dragon and true dragon. In this reading here, Dogen talks about

[01:02]

the validity of both the carved dragon and the true dragon. And usually the carved dragon is thought of as inferior to the true dragon and as just an idea. So I want to talk about that a little bit more. Suzuki Roshi says, that a true dragon, I mean a carved dragon, is what most of us are producing. He says most of you are, in your practice, you're actually creating the carved dragon instead of the true dragon. He says carved dragon is when you're sitting to create your own thing. When you have some idea about what you think you're doing, sitting zazen. And people have various reasons why they sit zazen.

[02:06]

All of us, when we come to practice, have some kind of reason why we're sitting zazen. But when we actually come, we don't know what zazen really is. It's very rare that someone would come to practice knowing what zazen really is. So we have some idea about it. And then through that idea, we carve our own dragon, which is not exactly the true dragon. It takes us a while before we actually begin to understand what is the true dragon, what is real Zazen, and what Zazen is really about. And we can, even though we may know, still, we often continue to create carve our own dragon. But, you know, on the other hand, carving our own dragon, we have to create our own practice.

[03:14]

So in that sense, carving our own dragon is correct, in the sense of creating our own practice and finding our own way. That's really necessary. But we should find our own way through the real dragon. The real dragon is not necessarily some prescribed way, even though in order to enter true practice and recognize the true dragon, we have to enter through the door of correct practice. Once we've entered into the door of correct practice, understand what that is, then we can create our own practice. But it's not the same. It's not like carving your own dragon. It is. Not in the sense of what we think is correct, or creating some image.

[04:23]

In his recent windmill, Suzuki Yoshi talks about this very thing. 1991, spring. So I'll just read a few little things out of here. And the title of this lecture is called The True Dragon. And he also talks about the horse and the cart, but he says, well, he says, horse is a symbol of mind. The cart means the body. It also means zazen form, formal practice of zazen. So horse or ox means attainment or spiritual attainment. And kart means physical practice.

[05:33]

Usually, we understand zazen practice as formal practice, or shikantaza is formal practice, and koan practice is more mental practice. But this kind of understanding is not complete. This kind of understanding is the understanding of the blind men, like Seiko, who had all the dragons. True practice is not formal practice or so-called shikantaza or koan practice. None of those. Those practices are just a practice to whip the horse. This is like Seiko loves the dragon, the carved dragon, not the real one. So each one of us must think on this point. Each one of us practices zazen in his own way, with his own understanding, and he continues this kind of practice, thinking this is the right practice. So even though he is sitting here in the zendo, he is involved in his own practice. In other words, he is carving, carefully carving, carefully carving his own dragon, which is not real.

[06:37]

That is what most of the people are doing. Some people may explain what zazen is in a philosophical way, or some people try to express their zazen in literature or painting or in a scientific way without knowing that that is their own dragon, not the real one. That is not wrong. That is all right, but we should know that there must be the way to whip the cart. We should know that there is a true dragon which has no form or color, which is called nothingness or emptiness, and which includes koan practice and so-called shikantaza and various Hinayana ways of practice or pre-Buddhist practice. This is the practice transmitted from Buddha to us, but at least when we do something there must be that which is supposed to be the true dragon, the real dragon. In this way we practice zazen. You come and practice zazen in this zendo where there should be the true dragon, but the instant you think, this is the true dragon, that is a mistake. But knowing that, if you come to this zendo, you should practice zazen with people, forgetting all about your carving or your painting.

[07:45]

You should practice zazen with people in this zendo, with your friends, completely involved in the atmosphere we have here. Sometimes I allow people who are sticking to an old way to do that. But strictly speaking, those who practice zazen here should be completely involved in the feeling we have in this zendo, and practice our way with people according to my instructions. That's what you should do. I think there were, at the time he gave this lecture, there were several people who had been practicing Rinzai Zen. And they were saying, why don't we have koan study, and why don't we do things like they do in the Rinzai dojo, and stuff like that. You're kind of giving them a lecture. But I think this is a good example of carving the dragon. Making your own, you know, do your own thing, man. It's okay to do your own thing.

[08:51]

After you have understanding. you should do your own thing. So, the other thing is, just as we ended last time, Daigon asked me about this question about the Sixth Patriarch and the gatha about the mirror, the famous gatha about the mirror. And I wasn't sure exactly what he was saying, later on I figured it out and I think that he was asking me, you know, since we're talking about the mirror and rubbing the mirror, rubbing the tile to make a mirror is kind of like wiping the dust to keep the mirror clean, right? So, you know, I don't know how many of you are familiar with these two gathas, but most of the old Zen students are.

[10:01]

I don't want to go through the whole story, but in the handwriting on the wall, the head monk, Shenshu, wrote this gatha in order to prove his understanding. to the fifth patriarch. And he said, the body is the tree of enlightenment, or the Bodhi tree. The mind, like a clear mirror on a stand, time and again wipe it diligently, and don't let any dust collect or alight. And then Eno, who is the young rice pounder, wrote his gatha in the middle of the night. And he said, Enlightenment is basically not a tree, and a clear mirror is not a stand, or has no stand. Fundamentally, there's not a single thing, so where can the dust alight?

[11:05]

And the fifth patriarch, of course, recognized his enlightenment. Both gathas actually are enlightened, but the gatha of the Sixth of Huineng goes way beyond. So the school, the northern school of Hsuan Hsu was called the Dust Wiping School. And the school of Huineng was called the School of Sudden Enlightenment. It has been the history of Zen ever since. The dust wipers in the School of Sudden Enlightenment. But, you know, this is a fairly political problem. Actually, they're not so different. So the question here is, you know, when you wipe the mirror to keep it clean, you're like wiping off all the delusion, right?

[12:21]

In order to keep the mirror of mind bright and clean, we continually wipe off delusions and defilements. And Huineng says, what's there to wipe? Originally there is no clear mirror, and there's no place for dust to settle. So this is actually what Dogen is expressing here. when he's talking about rubbing the tile to make a mirror. But there originally is no mirror. And there's no mirror without dust. Mirror creates dust and dust creates mirror. You can't take away the dust in order to have the mirror. You can't take away the activity. Every activity in the world is called defilement. If you understand Buddhist philosophy, worldly activity is called defilement.

[13:28]

So this is a technical term that extends to everything, to all activity. So form and emptiness. Form is the realm of defilement, and emptiness is the realm of purity. This is the dualistic understanding of Buddhism. But Mahayana Buddhism is the Buddhism of synthesis rather than the Buddhism of analysis. Analysis tends to separate everything. It's important to separate everything so you can see what everything isn't. That's the purpose of Buddhist analysis, is to see what everything isn't. The practice of the understanding of no-self, the early Buddhists, in order to understand no-self, took it all apart and analyzed every little bit in order to find out what we're not.

[14:36]

And so they said, well, we're empty. We're not what we think. And the Mahayanas put it all back together and said, that's true. but everything is one whole being. Everything that isn't is one whole being. So, the mirror is always the mirror, but you don't see the mirror until there's a speck of dust on it. As soon as you see the speck of dust, the mirror disappears. is no longer seen as a mirror. I thought you said you see the mirror when there is a speck of dust on it. No, the mirror appears. The mirror, when I say appears, means manifests.

[15:47]

Yes, but I thought then, when you said later, it sounded like I probably did. I mean, I probably did say the opposite. But whether I'm contradicting myself or not, I'm not sure. And so the mirror creates the dust and the dust creates the mirror because they're both the same thing. Every day we say form is emptiness and emptiness is form. This gives you something to relate to. It's not that there's form and there's emptiness. The clear mirror, the ancient mirror, is called emptiness, in this case of the Heart Sutra. And form is form.

[16:50]

But form is emptiness, and emptiness is form. The mirror itself is the form, and the form itself is the mirror. That's why if you try to see emptiness, you have to see it as form. You can't see emptiness as emptiness. You can only see it through form. Yes? Is that what you mean by that you only get the mirror when you wipe the tile? Yeah, that's right. The activity itself brings forth, manifests the mirror. So you're not trying to clear the mirror, you polish the tile because the tile itself is a mirror. The mirror doesn't have any special shape or form or look like your glasses, you know. That's not the mirror.

[17:51]

The mirror is not like something that he says in here, that you clean the crooks over. That's not the mirror. It doesn't have any special shape or form or image, but it reflects all of the forms. And so the mirror disappears when the forms appear. You said the mirror disappears when the forms appear, but you also said the mirror manifests when it's covered with dust. Right. But the problem we have there is that you think the mirror has some special shape or form. And you have this idea about what a mirror is. So you have to drop your idea of what a mirror is.

[18:55]

It's like saying, don't think about a mirror. That's right. So don't think about a mirror. Think about a no mirror. This is not a contradiction of the... It's not a mirror wiping. Rubbing a tile is not rubbing the dust off the mirror. It's not wiping the dust off the mirror. Rubbing a tile is not wiping the dust off the mirror. So, ordinarily we think, well, you know, This is a tile, and if we rub it, well, you can't make it into a mirror, you know, because it's tile. But when the tile becomes completely tile, then the tile is the mirror.

[20:06]

It's not that you're trying to make the mirror into something that, some idea of what a mirror is. So, When you sit Zazen, you're not trying to make you into Buddha. Sitting Zazen is like rubbing a tile. But because you're Buddha, you sit Zazen, you don't make yourself into a Buddha. So, in Soto Zen, you start from enlightenment. We start from Buddha. That's the beginning of practice. It's not practicing to become Buddha or to get enlightened. It's to become yourself. So if you practice just to sit zazen, which is not so easy.

[21:11]

You know, we're always looking for a result. It's almost impossible to help looking for some kind of result. But to sit zazen, to rub the tile, just to rub the tile, for the sake of rubbing the tile, then the tile doesn't become a mirror, but actualizes itself as a mirror. It actualizes itself as a tile. It actualizes itself as a tile, that's right. And then, when it actualizes itself as a tile, it manifests as the ancient mirror. The fact of actualizing it as a tile? Yeah. That is the ancient mirror. Well, the way I said it, it sounded better to me. Because you say, ah, that is the ancient mirror, you know.

[22:18]

Well, there it is, you know. Because the tile is now the perfect manifestation of the tile, the representation of what we would call a tile. The emptiness that allows that tile to manifest is also the perfect manifestation of the emptiness behind it. Well, you say behind it, but behind it is okay. It creates it or manifests the tile. Because in this fancicle, Kokyo, called The Ancient Mirror, or The Primordial Mirror, there's a place in there where somebody says, I saw a group of monkeys carrying the ancient mirror on their backs. And it has the feeling of The ancient group of monkeys, you know, is us, right?

[23:22]

Carrying the ancient mirror on their backs. And it's like background. You know? Kind of like background. So... They're always carrying this ancient mirror around on their backs. And it's like being pasted against the mirror. But you can say it's a background of emptiness, right? The background. You know, Suzuki Roshi used to talk about like a coin has two sides, a two-sided coin. One side of this coin is empty of anything, and the other side has form. So one is the background. It looks like emptiness is the background for form.

[24:25]

But if you turn it around, form is the background for emptiness. So if you stick to one side or the other as being the foreground and the background, then you have a kind of dualism. So we have form as one side, emptiness as the other, but they're one piece. You can't really pull them apart. And if you say the mirror is the background for the form, You also have to say the form is the background for the mirror. And if you say the mirror makes the form, the form also makes the mirror. So they arise at the same time. They arise at the same time. That's why in here he says, but you better be quick about it. That's what he means. What is the nature of primordial mirror symbolic of? Is it emptiness? Yeah, emptiness, adheseness, suchness, there are various names, Buddha nature.

[25:31]

So could you almost substitute for tile or whatever, this concept? Which concept? Any concept. Well, yeah, you could say, that's right, you could substitute anything, any kind of activity. You could say, I'm washing the dishes. in order to do something or, you know, you could say I'm sweeping the floor in order to make a jewel, you know. Or sitting with back straight, tongue... That's exactly what he's talking about. This is just a metaphor for sitting sideways. Yeah. Sitting with back straight and all of the... Yes.

[26:34]

So, in this fascicle Kokyo, he ends up with the same story. You know, from the point of view of the fascicle is this story from the point of view of the mirror. So he really goes into the whole mirror concept and ends up with the same story. I can't read the whole thing to you, and the translation's not that good. But at the end, he says... He has the same story. He says... Long ago, Baso of Kosei studied under Nangaku. He's using the Japanese names. And Nangaku secretly gave Baso the seal of enlightenment.

[27:38]

This is the origin of the remarks about the mirror and the tile. Baso stayed at Denbo Temple continuously, earnestly practicing Zazen for over ten years. We should reflect on the fact that the wind and rain came into the Zazen hut, and though it was often enveloped in icy snow, he never failed to practice Zazen. One day Nangako visited Baso's hut. Baso stood and greeted him and Nangako asked, what have you been doing recently? And Baso replied, I've been doing nothing but sit in zazen. Then Nangako asked, why do you continually sit in zazen? Baso answered, I sit in zazen in order to become Buddha. Then Nangako picked up a tile and started to polish it. Using a tile he found by the side of Baso's hut, Baso watched what he was doing and asked, Master, what are you doing? And Nangaka answered, I'm polishing this tile. Baso asked, why are you polishing the tile? Nangaka answered, to make a mirror. Baso said, how can you make a mirror by polishing a tile?

[28:41]

And Nangaka replied, how can you become a Buddha by doing Zazen? And then Dogen says, people who have studied this important dialogue over many centuries have thought that Nangaka was encouraging Baso. But this is not necessarily so. It is simply that the actions of a great sage transcend the level of ordinary people. If a great sage such as Nangaka does not use such skillful means as polishing a tile, how can he guide people? Such great power as this is the essence of the Buddhas and patriarchs. Even if this is only a tentative method, it is still an important device. If there were not such devices, the Buddha way would not be transmitted. And furthermore, Nangaku continued to guide Baso ceaselessly. From this story, we can understand that Nangaku correctly and directly transmitted the true merit of the Buddhas and ancestors. We must understand that when the polished tile is the mirror, Baso is Buddha. When Baso is Buddha, Baso directly becomes Baso. Suzuki Roshi says, when you are you, Zen is Zen.

[29:44]

He'll say that all the time. This was the stuff that he was talking about a lot. His Zen directly becomes Zazen. So polishing the tile to make the mirror is the essence of the Buddhist ancestors. Accordingly, the tile becomes the ancient mirror. And when we polish the mirror, we will find untainted and pure practice. This is done not because there's dust on the tile, but simply to polish the tile for its own sake. In this, the virtue of becoming the mirror will be realized. This is the basis of the practice and observation of the Buddhas and ancestors. If we cannot make the mirror by polishing a tile, we cannot make the mirror even by polishing a mirror. Who understands this? In the action itself, a polishing is the realization of Buddha and the actualization of the mirror. If we doubt this, are we not when we polish the mirror, mistakenly polishing it as a tile? The situation when he was polishing the tile was not the same as any other situation.

[30:50]

Accordingly, Nangaku's teaching was exactly the right one. In other words, polishing the tile in itself makes the mirror. People nowadays should pick up tiles and polish them in order to make the mirror. If the tile does not become the mirror, people will not become Buddha. If they frivolously think that a tile is basically a cloud of earth, then they too are basically clouds of earth. If a human being has mind, then a tile also has mind. Who else knows that when a tile appears, there is a mirror to reflect it? And when a mirror appears, there is a mirror to reflect it. So, that's kind of the gist of this whole but then he lays it out a little different way here. So, let's see where we were. Oh yes, there was one other place.

[32:08]

in here where he talks about the two friends, remember? I'm trying to find it. Oh, yeah. Down on the bottom of the page... 193. Yeah, 193. He's, uh, Ta-Chir, Ta-Chi, then, uh, says, then says, then what is right? See that place? The last paragraph at the bottom of the page. He says, then what is right? Dogen says, these words resemble a simple question about this practical matter of what to do. But they are also asking about that final rightness. You should realize that the relationship between what and right here is like, for example, the occasion when one friend meets another. The fact that he is my friend means that I am his friend. Similarly here, the meaning of what and right emerge simultaneously. What is kind of like how, which is kind of like our activity.

[33:19]

And right is kind of like Buddha or enlightenment. So what is right? If you don't see that as a question and see it as a statement, activity is Buddha. or activity is enlightenment. So this is the whole gist of Dogen's understanding of practice and enlightenment. What is right? If you don't see it as a question and turn the question into a statement, what is right? So then, this thing about the friends here is like, the title of the Sandokai. The san in Sandokai means many. And do means one.

[34:25]

And kai means shaking hands. One and many, shaking hands. The shaking hands is like, you know, when two arrow points meet in mid-air, or like when a box and its lid, the perfect fit of a box and its lid. So here, two friends, it is the same feeling, right? It's like, what is like San, right is like do and uh is is like kai you could say many one is one is many many is one you have to stretch yourself a little bit but

[35:36]

Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. The many is the one and the one is the many. The tile is the mirror and the mirror is the tile. But it's the polishing, the actual activity, that brings it all together, or that manifests and transcends both. So, He says, these words resemble a simple question about this practical matter of what to do. But they are also asking about that final actualization of rightness. You should realize that the relationship between what and right, the relationship between what and right here is like, for example, the occasion when one friend meets another. So what and right are like Good friends.

[36:40]

More than good friends. But he says good friends. Like more than good friends. It's like your right hand and your left hand are good friends. For example, the fact that he is my friend means that I am his friend. Similarly here, the meaning of what and right emerge simultaneously. So this is very much like this. Probably where Dogen gets this is reminiscent of the Sango Kai. The many and the one shake hands. The what and right shake hands, are good friends, like old buddies, inseparable buddies.

[37:44]

I kind of see it like a simple thing, but like a pie. A pie? A pie. You can't have the peace without the pie, and you can't have the pie without the peace. Yeah, all the peace is belonging to the pie. And that last statement, where it says what and right emerge simultaneously, you could rephrase that and say activity and Buddha emerge simultaneously? Right, yeah. Activity and Buddha, or activity and enlightenment. Practice and enlightenment, actually. So, what is like practice and right is like enlightenment. So, practice and enlightenment emerge simultaneously. It could help to think when you say activity, I'm thinking of karma. How does that work into this? Karma is, strictly speaking, means action, right?

[38:54]

But karmic action, karmic activity, is activity with the Self at the center, volitional activity. And enlightened activity is activity where the Self is not the center, so there's no accumulation, there's no place for the dust to lie. There's no place for anything to accumulate. If we really practiced pure practice, which is just pure activity, without accumulating karma through volitional action which is driven by desire, we wouldn't be collecting karma. We wouldn't be, you know, creating karma. Yes?

[39:56]

I could be wrong about my understanding. About what? Can you talk about the letter? I could be wrong about my understanding. Okay. That's in the book of Suresh and also in the Hincliff record. There seems to be a recurrent theme that the masters admonished the monks for realizing the principles and not being able to manifest the function. So, if both appear simultaneously, what are they talking about? Well, it means that you forget about both and just let the action be the action. It means that the function and the principle are both are simultaneous.

[40:59]

Why should there be one without the other? My question is, how can one be realized without the other? Yeah, that's right. They can't. But what's wrong with Simultaneous. It seems to me, it seems to me, that's why I said, I think what you're saying may be correct, that a lot of masters are saying that the monks realize the principle but not the function. Yeah, well, what is the function? Well, I guess from a Mahayana standpoint, I don't know exactly, I guess it would be something like whatever actions I have would benefit all beings. How do you do that?

[42:02]

I don't know. Well, the way that your actions benefit all beings is when they're selfless. So, when you eat your breakfast, just eat. You know, when he says, in the top part of page 193, that if we do not realize that he's in the most comfortable position as a child, then the Buddhas and Patriarchs have nothing to say. Now, when they were polishing a tile, and, you know, becoming mirrored, or whatever, were they polishing a tile to polish a tile, or were they polishing a tile to make it into a mirror?

[43:12]

They were polishing a tile to polish a tile. Why in what you just read to us did he say we should pick up tiles and polish them to make mirrors? Well, the thing is, there's different ways of approaching He's talking about this from various points of view. So sometimes he says, polish it just to polish it. Just polish the tile. And then over here he says, polish the tile to make it into a mirror. So if you take any one of these statements and lean on it, you get stuck. So that's why he says it so many different ways. so that you don't get stuck on one point of the gear. You understand? So, whatever he says, there's always the opposite, which he also says, so that you don't get stuck. So, you don't polish the tile to become a mirror.

[44:16]

You do polish the tile to become a mirror. Dogen's whole approach is to say, don't get hung up in duality. Don't get hung up in one side of something. You have to see the whole thing wholly and completely. And when you see the whole thing wholly and completely, it includes all the points of view, without leaning on any point of view. So that's like no is no and no is yes. That's why no is yes and yes is no. Because you have to transcend duality in order to come to reality. So, that's why it's so difficult. And also, the teaching is a teaching of paradoxes, too. And the paradoxes

[45:22]

What? Well, yeah. You do. Wouldn't it be right to say that you have to pause the pile to make it a mirror, but you can only do that by pausing the pile to make it a pile? Right. And that's how you make the mirror. Right. You pause it to make a mirror, and then you can't make a mirror. That's right. You have to polish the tile to make it a tile, you can't polish the mirror, you know you're making it into something else. So, I have another question. When you're talking about karma reported, when you're doing a selfless action, you're not creating karma. Is that same perspective put into question in the fox koan? That's the question of the fox koan. You don't conceptualize the karma anymore, but it's not that it's changed and there's no karma, it's just that it's... Well, I think that the point of that fox koan is that you shouldn't be so abstracted from the world that you're not creating karma.

[46:43]

In other words, is it possible for a Zen master to be above the law of karma, of cause and effect. And the teacher said, yes it is. And his retribution was that he had to live for 500 times as a fox. So when he came back to Hyakujo and asked him about, and said, I was once the He's very careful, he says. Zen Master does not ignore the law of cause and effect. In other words, one must always be very careful, and it's also sometimes important to collect some karma.

[47:59]

In other words, we shouldn't be above collecting karma. Is that sort of the Bodhisattva vow, to collect karma? Well, it isn't really. I think the Bodhisattva vow is to, whether or not you collect karma, whether you're actually creating karma or not, that your intention is to help sentient beings before you become liberated. But it seems like that means to vow to stay in that world where karma is, where action collects karma. Right, but if a person can be liberated and be in the world without being caught by it, although it's very difficult. So that's why we emphasize training.

[49:08]

If you don't have the training, it's pretty hard to stay in the world without being caught by it. And even if you do have training, it's hard to be in the world without being caught by it. But hopefully someone will appear someday who is in the world, who can stay in the world without being caught by it, and with good understanding. So far, most people have been caught by it. Most of our teachers have been caught by it. Suzuki Roshi was probably the one that was least caught by the world. And the Bodhidharma said enlightenment is accepting the causal nexus. or your karmic situation. Oh yeah, that's right. You have to be respectful of karma. And one of the four, one of his four entrances and two understandings of four entrances or something. So if one is aware of being caught by the world, is that being caught by the world?

[50:14]

Well, you can be aware of it and still be caught by it. But being aware of it is good understanding. What do you mean by that, taught by the world? Well, it means that you allow desire to lead you. So, you know, their practice is practice of vow rather than practice of karma. So, vow practice of vow means that your direction is not toward being directed by desire, but being directed by intention. So you decide what you're doing rather than allow your feelings to be taken over by desire and caught by the world.

[51:22]

That's how you get caught by the world. the world, meaning any aspect of it, any aspect of desire. What's the difference between desire and intention? Desire means that you let your feelings lead you, and intention means that your decision leads you. How do you get to that? Well, in order to practice zazen, it's a matter of being led by intention, because as soon as you get into a difficult place, your feelings will want you to do something else. So your intention has to lead feelings, rather than feelings leading intention. So when we We all have difficulty with our intention.

[52:27]

Our intention is to sit still and don't move. But our feelings say, this is terrible, this is awful, I should move, or I don't like this. Your feelings will lead you off of your intention. So this is called being pulled around. This is called having a ring in your nose. Desire grabs on and just pulls you around wherever it wants. So desires and feelings and emotion are very important, but we can't be led by them. In the realm of intention, which is actually another word for vow, if our intention is not really strong, then every time we come to a difficult place, desire becomes stronger than intention.

[53:29]

And we fail. It just pulls us away. Doubt, you know, it brings up all this skeptical doubt. What am I doing? Why am I doing this to myself? When I could be doing all these other things. Then you look at how the world is so bright and all these things are going on, you know, and it's all glittery. And then you look back at what you're doing, what am I doing sitting there? So intention has to be really strong in order to cut through all that doubt. Because as soon as you want to do something, the other side comes up. As soon as you have an intention to do something, all of the desire and emotion and stuff that you like will come up and object. What are you doing to me? You know? Hey man, let's have some fun. What?

[54:33]

Well, we often, sometimes do. We often sometimes do. I mean, sure we do a lot, you know. When it comes to a critical point, you know, you have to decide, do I go this way or that way? It becomes very difficult to choose. It seems like there are so many myriad situations where you can get caught. You might have to make a lot of decisions. Is that what precepts are? A way to live by the vow? Well, precepts are the basis of living by vow or intention. And we can't always do it, you know, they're very difficult to keep the precepts. And so we're always kind of defiling the precepts.

[55:39]

And then we have repentance. Repentance is a really big part of Buddhism and Zen. To be able to repent means to look at what you've done and turn around. That's what it means. It doesn't mean to feel sorry for yourself. To be able to confess is important. To say, well, this is what I've done. This is who I am. This is clearly seeing. There's clearly seeing and then turning and re-confessing. or re-establishing yourself on practice. So we're doing that all the time, you know? We're falling off and then turning around and re-establishing ourselves. So actually we're doing repentance all the time, but it's not in the form of flagellation or judgment. It's just in the form of seeing clearly where we're going and then turning and re-establishing ourselves.

[56:47]

Do you have any notion about what, how it is that we do strengthen our intention? It's like sometimes I think I have a strong intention and sometimes I think I don't. And I haven't got any notion of how I strengthen it. Well, that's a good point. That's a good point. Sometimes we think, I strengthen my practice. But the strength, I think there's, if we want to use this term, a kind of grace, which is like, you know, the way I would describe that is as when we put out our effort, then the universe meets that effort. And that, to me, that's the basis of faith, is that, you know, you put out your effort, it's the best effort you can put out, and the universe meets it.

[58:04]

You put out a little bit of effort, and that's what the universe meets you with. You know, so whatever you... it's like matching funds. It's a little like laying yourself open also. Yeah. Then openness is what you get. That's right. Absolutely. I think that's true. And there seems to be something also, though, about, I guess, exercising it in little ways, strengthens it in some way, like out of a lonesome for the parable of the prodigal son. Well, the prodigal son has it to begin with, and then he gets lost. Then he comes back, and his daddy recognizes him.

[59:09]

He doesn't want to show him who he is, but he gives him some stuff to do, some practice. and the son practices and finally becomes mature and then he's given the estate. But in some senses he keeps experiencing the universe meeting him, you know, in greater increments. Yeah, that's right. He becomes more and more successful. Takes chances? Well, he's more willing to. Oh, more willing to. The pole off of which he's willing to leap gets higher. Yeah. Right. Take more risk. Yeah. Yeah. But that's the whole thing about polishing the tile, you know. When you really put yourself completely, if you completely polish the tile, then the tile will show its mirror nature.

[60:11]

Reveal its mirror nature. And you can see all the way to the bottom of the tile, and you can see that the bottom of the tile is the mirror. I'm having a little difficulty with this idea of the universe meeting, and that when you pass the tile, it comes, or something like that. Because it just seems like creating some other thing. Like the universe and you, the universe meeting what you do. Like I said, I don't really understand. I mean, it seems like what Barbara said, if you're open, you get openness. Oh, I see what you're saying. But it's just because you're open. It doesn't seem like then there's openness or something. The openness is the fact that you're open. Or like with the tile, whatever mirror comes is just that polishing tile, it's not that

[61:15]

When you cross the child district pile, then something else will come. No, I didn't say something else will come. I did say the universe will meet you, but that's just a metaphor for you meeting yourself. Universe, you know, doesn't mean all these objects or some idea about world systems. I don't like that at the end of the Bodhisattva ceremony, through all the world systems, you know that phrase? Because it's too cosmological. I think worlds are not out there, necessarily. I don't think that's what we mean by world. Through every world, it means like our own world. But anyway, so those are the things I want to talk about a little bit.

[62:27]

I can't remember exactly where we stopped here, but you know, Tachi asked, what is right? And we went through that. And then on page 194, Nangaku asks, The next question changes the subject, sort of. I mean, it changes the drift a little bit, but this is his comparison, right? He's giving an example. He says, well, the example is, Nankaku replied, when someone, doesn't have to be a man, is driving a cart, if the cart doesn't go, or if you want the cart to go, Should he beat the cart or beat the ox? Usually we say, well, of course you beat the ox if you want the cart to go. But that's in the dualistic sense.

[63:37]

It depends on what kind of cart we're talking about. The cartless carriage. And then he goes on to extrapolate on this. And this is an interesting part because it's talking about the going of not going and the not going of going. So now when we say the cart doesn't go, what do we mean by the cart's going or not going? For example, is the cart going analogous to water flowing or is it analogous to water not flowing? There is a sense in which we can say that flowing is water's not going and that water's going is not its flowing. Therefore, when we investigate the words, the cart doesn't go, we should approach them both in terms of not going.

[64:44]

We should approach them both in terms of not going and in terms of not not going. He likes to use these double negatives. For it is a question of time. The words, if the cart doesn't go, do not mean simply that it does not go. Should he beat the cart or beat the ox? Does this mean there is a beating of the cart as well as a beating of the ox? Are beating the cart and beating the ox the same or not? In the world there is no method of beating the cart, but though ordinary men or people have no such method, we know that on the path of the Buddha there is a method of beating the cart. And this is the very eye of Buddhist study. Even though we study that there is a method of beating the cart, we should give concentrated effort to understanding in detail that this is not the same as beating the ox.

[65:46]

And even though the method of beating the ox is common in the world, we should go on to study the beating of the ox on the path of the Buddha. Is this ox beating the water buffalo or ox beating the iron bull or the clay ox? Is this beating with a whip for the entire world, the entire mind? Is this to beat by using the marrow? Should we beat with the fist? The fist should beat the fist and the ox beat the ox. Now, if you don't... If you try to think too much about it, you get a little confused. And if you don't think too much about it... So, we have to look, kind of like, look at the terms. The card here, It can mean various things.

[66:49]

It can mean, the cart means practice or zazen, actually. And the horse or the ox is like Buddha nature, enlightenment. It's the prize, in a way. So you could say that the ox is like, in a way, like thinking mind, you know, intelligence, and the cart is the body. abstract way, you could say that the ox is like the absolute and the cart is the relative side.

[68:02]

How do they go together? So, do you beat the ox or do you beat the cart? Usually, when we want something to go, we use our head. In zazen, we use the body. The body, you know, instead of going someplace, we stop. And we stop the body from going someplace, and we stop the activity of the mind other than The activity of the mind is focused on the activity of the body. So the body and mind are one piece. And the mind is not just dragging the body along on its quest. You know, sometimes we think of the body as a kind of support for the mind.

[69:13]

And the body carries the brain around. It's a bus, you know. And the mind does have its function. Everything has its function. But here, the functions of the horse and the cart are one function. So no matter where you hit, the cart moves. Whether you hit the horse or hit the cart, it doesn't matter. If you hit the card, the horse starts to gallop. What does this mean about time? It says, word is a question of time. Well, let's get to that one by one. I brought a flashlight so I could read my footnotes.

[70:20]

Yeah, I want to also talk about moving in stillness. So he says, now when we say the cart doesn't go, what do we mean by the cart's going or not going? For example, is the cart going, analogous to water flowing, or is it analogous to water not flowing? Well, what does that mean? there is a sense in which we can say that flowing is water is not going. You know there's an old Zen saying, the water stands still while the bridge moves, is flowing. The water is standing still while the bridge is moving. So it depends kind of where we're standing and Dogen also gives us another example in Genjo Koan. He says it's like when you're on the boat watching the shore, it looks like the shore is moving, but actually it's the motion of the boat, right?

[71:40]

It can look like the shore is moving. Sometimes, you know, it feels like the motion is going the other way. And sometimes when you're on a hill and somebody pulls forward, somebody in the car next to you, they pull forward and you feel like you're going backwards and you start slamming on the brakes and the car won't stop moving backwards. But it's just the other guy going up the hill. Yes. I've had that feeling at a train stop. I feel like I'm actually moving at a train stop. That's strange. Right. Well, we did a thing one time with Charlotte Silver, right here, when this used to be an open porch. And we used to do Charlotte Silver stuff out here on the open porch. And David, Chad, we had people laying down and people pulling other people's leg. You know, you'd stick your leg up in the air and somebody would be pulling it. And you had your eyes closed. And he was pulling me, David Chandler was pulling me all over the deck, you know.

[72:41]

And when I opened my eyes I was still in the same place. Really strange. He pulled you around and got you right back in the same spot? No. I didn't go anywhere. But the feeling was that I was being pulled all around the deck. So, depending on where we're standing, how we view things, things seem to go in a certain way. It's not necessarily that water does this or that, and the bridge does this or that, but he's talking about our point of view, how we see things. We see things moving in a certain way, but from another point of view, they're not moving anywhere, they're not going anywhere. It's also like a river. If you look at a river, you can see the river is flowing and the water is moving, but the river is staying in the same place.

[73:50]

The river is not going. The river itself is standing still and moving at the same time. So his point here is like something standing still and moving at the same time. But we only get the idea of motion. Or the idea of standing still, that's right. So the good example, you know, Kadagiri, Roshi, always used to give this example of the top. You know, when you throw a top and it's really spinning, in its well-balanced way, then the top doesn't look like it's moving at all. It's just standing still, but it's in great dynamic activity. And when you go and you touch it, you know, then it goes, you know. So this is the way zazen should be, in a way. Zazen is, but don't explode when somebody touches you, is dynamic activity in stillness, and it's stillness in great dynamic activity.

[75:06]

Our activity when we get out of, when we're not sitting still, is activity in the midst of dynamic stillness. So stillness and activity are two aspects of the same thing. Stillness is... We just call it stillness. And activity, we just call it activity. So he's questioning this whole thing. of moving and standing still. So he's saying, now when we say the cart doesn't go, what do we mean by the cart's going or not going? For example, is the cart going analogous to water flowing or is it analogous to water not flowing? There's a sense in which we can say that water is flowing, that flowing is water's not going.

[76:13]

Suzuki Roshi gave this talk on Zazen instruction, which I tried to find a copy, and I could not find a copy here, but somebody may have a copy. I gave it out several times. When he talks, just the same thing, he says, Flowing is its stillness. Flowing is its stillness or its nature. I can't remember the whole thing you said, but it was really startling. It was exactly this. Flowing is its stillness or its nature. So he's saying flowing and stillness are the same thing.

[77:19]

Or the nature of stillness is flowing and the nature of flowing is stillness. Oh, yeah, well, did you ever read Uji? Yeah. Well, we have various ways of thinking about time, and Dogen has many more ways. But yes, continuous time and discontinuous time, and times passing, and... Yes, of course, it's the same principle. But what it has to do with, he's talking about enlightenment, right?

[78:24]

And enlightenment as manifesting in the activity. So we think of enlightenment as stillness and activity as activity. our practice. And the stillness manifests within the activity, and the activity manifests the stillness, or is centered on stillness, or enlightenment. But you can't That's kind of a way of dividing it up, which I don't like, but for the sake of talking about it, we divide it up that way. So he says, for example, is the cart going analogous to water flowing, or is it analogous to water not flowing?

[79:36]

There's a sense in which we can say that flowing is water's not going. And that water's going, it's not flowing. Therefore, when we investigate the words, the cart doesn't go, we should approach them both in terms of not going and in terms of not not going. In other words, staying. Not not going would be staying, right? Not not going would be going. Right. So, Yeah, it would be going. So in terms of not going, in terms of not not going, which would be going. For it is a question of time. Well, everything goes in time. Going and coming are aspects of time. Existence is an aspect of time. That's your question.

[80:40]

Is everything all at once? Yes, time is money. How much do I get? Time is existence, or money. And money... And existence is time. So he says it's a question of time. It's a question of being in time. This aspect of practicing is how to be in time. Usually, spiritual practice is how to get out of time. Don't let time do you.

[81:44]

You do time. So Joshu says to this monk, he says, the 24 hours control you. He said, but I control the 24 hours. by being one with time. And this is also an aspect of zazen, you know, when you're sitting there and something happens that you don't like, and then you want it to stop. And then you start longing for something else.

[82:45]

And then you're out of time. You're in a different time dimension as soon as you start longing for something else. So, we have five minutes. The words, if the cart doesn't go, do not mean simply that it does not go. So after saying all this, he says, it doesn't mean that simply it doesn't go. Of course it goes. So we didn't get too far there. But it's not a matter of farming.

[83:47]

You're already dead here.

[84:26]

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