Good morning. This is the fourth day of our five-day session. And for you people who don't know what that means, or do know what it means, we sit for five days. We remain very still and quiet. We sit from 5 in the morning until 9, a little after 9 at night. And we eat our meals sitting. And we have walking, a little walking in between thousand periods. But basically, sasheen is to close our, let the moss grow over our mouth. And pull in our hands and feet. let go all of our affairs and actually it's like you make sure that everything that you've been doing is in order so that you can actually leave and do this for five days at least as much as you can

[01:22]

So, and you hope that at the end of the five days, you'll be able to get back to what you're doing. So, but you can't count on it. But during this particular session, we've been doing chanting practice every once in a while. to shore up our chanting practice and it's been neglected for quite a while so we've been opening our mouths quite a bit during this session which is a little unusual but we're making this mistake on purpose and it's helped a lot so we're not sticking to silence exactly totally And we decided to chant and talk about it and practice.

[02:28]

But that's a decision. It's not like a mistake. Sometimes when we have a work period, people start talking to each other, especially people that are working to each other. And that's a mistake. So we should be careful about that one. So it's really been quite a help. I want to congratulate or say how much I appreciate all the work that we've been doing this practice period because it really is beginning to tell and our chanting has become very strong and our pronunciations have been pretty accurate. So when we begin our practice period, I'm not sure what I want to talk about, but by we get to the fourth day, which this is, there's so much that I want to talk about that I can't, it's hard to decide what to talk about. Last time, my last talk, I talked about

[03:46]

I used my teacher Suzuki Roshi's talks to talk about the service that we do, the chanting and why we chant and what the various chants mean. I don't want to go over that again, but he's talked about the first chant that we do is Shakyamuni Buddha, Bodhidharma, and Dogen, and Mahapajapati, the first woman ancestor. The first ancestor in India, in China, and in Japan. And the first woman ancestor. We should also add the first American ancestor. We haven't gotten around to that yet. We could actually do chanting of Suzuki Roshi. And so the first chant that we do is for those people who brought, those teachers who brought the, who successively handed down the teachings.

[05:10]

And then the second chant is for all the ancestors that have descended from these teachers. And the third chant is for all of the members who have died and their relationships and for all the people that we know who are deceased. That's the third chant that we do. So, Suzuki Roshi says, the second chant is the most important. So, each chant has a dedication. So, in the second chant, we dedicate whatever chant that we do, which is the Heart Sutra, to all the ancestors, because that's the ancestors, the Zen ancestors,

[06:13]

are the teachers who have brought our practice to us. In Zen, of course, as I said before, we don't have a special sutra that is the Zen sutra, but the succession of ancestors from Shakyamuni Buddha to us are transmitted to Dharma. So it's a very personal kind of transmission. Suzuki Roshi talks about Dogen. Dogen was our first ancestor in Japan. And when he went to China, he was looking for a teacher. And Suzuki Roshi says, and Dogen himself says, Dogen says, before I found my teacher, I just paid homage to all the ancestors as my teachers.

[07:28]

So the ancestors are our teachers. And without this lineage, we don't have any history. Of course, the history is somewhat made up in parts. It goes back into antiquity. But Sukhiroji talks about Shakyamuni Buddha, who was the first Buddha of our particular era. Not era, but millennium. And he said, Shakyamuni Buddha is alive, immortal. because he lives in all of us. The reason everybody in this room is here is because of Shakyamuni Buddha. Without Shakyamuni Buddha, all of us wouldn't be here. This building wouldn't be here. This practice wouldn't be here. So, and each ancestor has carried that tradition and that the Dharma

[08:35]

down to the present day, and when someone has transmission from their teacher, they are vowed to continue to practice, to depend on the Dharma. So it's a very responsible position to be a transmitted priest. about the ancestors, both factual and imaginary. We have Zen fairytales and so forth, but they all have meaning. They all have very profound meaning, all those stories.

[09:38]

I want to continue, and hopefully if you haven't been here before to hear the beginning of this, I hope you can plug in. So, he talks about this. He talks about Dogen, the part that I just spoke about. He said, when I waited for my teacher, Tendo Myojo, old Buddha, Daisho, Daisho means old priest, I could bow to those patriarchs or ancestors who were, Dogen says, before Buddha in India, until Bodhidharma, who was the first ancestor in China.

[10:46]

And then he talks about how many there are. And he says, it means that Buddha is bowing to Buddha. And each ancestor is Buddha. And then he talks about yuibutsu, yobutsu. Yubibutsu Yobutsu is a fascicle of Dogen Zenji, our first ancestor in Japan. And it means, he says there are four characters to this, Yubibutsu, Yobutsu. But if you explain it, it's very difficult to explain, and it really is. So if you don't get it, it's okay. It means only Buddha and the Buddha. That's what it literally means, only Buddha and a Buddha. Yogutsu means with Buddha, only Buddha with Buddha, or only Buddha and Buddha. It means that you are Buddha and I am Buddha.

[11:53]

It's about transmission, a Buddha transmitting to a Buddha. When you are Buddha, I am not Buddha. When I am Buddha, you are not Buddha. So each one of us is Buddha, which is difficult to understand the way he says it. But I'll explain it if I can. So you can say, you and I are Buddha. And sometimes you can say, only I am Buddha. So Gogen says, you and Buddha too. I, only I am Buddha. It's not perfect. Sometimes when I am Buddha, you are not Buddha. But we are, the two of us, Buddha. Do you understand? It's very difficult to understand, but actually not so hard to understand.

[12:55]

Part of it's the language, hard to translate, that kind of language, but it's like we are both Buddha. But sometimes when you are Buddha, I listen to you and I'm not Buddha. I give you Buddha. And sometimes you listen to me. When you listen to me, I am Buddha and you are not Buddha. Not Buddha is not quite right. It's like in the light and in the shadow. We're both Buddha. But when I'm shining, you're in the shadow. When you're shining, I'm in the shadow. So, I don't know how to explain it, but we are both Buddha. It's like when you look at the moon, you see the light side of the moon, but the other side is there, only it's dark.

[14:01]

It's always there. There's always the dark side and the light side, but we don't see the dark side. Well, we do, actually. When it's all gone, we see the dark side. But when one side is illuminated, the other side is dark. That's the way it goes. So it's important to know when to step forward and when to step back. When I give a talk, Hosan is sitting there in the back. I've given him dharma transmission, which makes us equal in that sense. But when I'm giving a talk, he's sitting in the back. When he gives a talk, I don't carry my teaching stick. I just sit here as his student. And when he's giving a talk, I sit here as his student, and he sits there as my student when I'm giving a talk.

[15:10]

When you're giving a talk, I'm your student, even though we're both Buddha. So, this is kind of what he's talking about. So he says, it's difficult for you to understand the idea of transmission. Why is it difficult? Why is it difficult is that when you say transmission, We have something, I have something to transmit. So this is a funny word, transmission. There's nothing to transmit. But we call it transmission. And for priests, we have transmission ceremonies that last anywhere from three weeks to seven days, depending on how much time you have. But there's nothing to transmit. So what's that about? And then he says, so you think there must be something to transmit.

[16:14]

And then he has a quote. But I don't want that old kind of tradition. That is what you may say. Because when you say transmission, you think there's something to transmit. And your teacher is someone who transmits something to you. That's what you think. If I receive transmission, I should obey my teacher. That's what you think. That's what people think. That's what he thinks they think. So you should do things exactly as your teacher did. You may have that kind of idea. So that's why it is difficult to accept transmission. I don't know why he thinks that, but I don't think it's so difficult. But between teacher and disciple, If a disciple receives transmission, he is the teacher, not me. In other words, the one who gives the transmission is setting up the other teacher and takes a lower position.

[17:22]

When there is a Dharma transmission ceremony, both the teacher and the disciple bow to the altar. And first they bow with the teacher's bowing cloth on top of the student's bowing cloth. And then they bow again with the student's bowing cloth, the edge of it, over the teacher's. So between teacher and disciple, transmission, that person is a teacher, whether it's he or she, not me. But sometimes, I may be a teacher. When a disciple bows to me, I am a voluntary teacher. Okay, I'm your teacher. Bow to me. People often say to me, sometimes, can I be your student? And I say, I may say I have nothing to teach you, or

[18:30]

If you feel that you're my student, just practice with me. There's no special way for you to be my student. Some teachers have a special way for them to be the student's teacher. So he says, even though the two of us are different people, both with different characters, with different ways, you can express Buddha's way. Even though we're different, we can express Buddha's way. And when you express Buddha's way in your own way, then your way includes everything, including your teacher. And it is not possible to compare it with some other way. This is to have a vivid and refreshed way of expression of our true way. So the disciple's way cannot be exactly like the teacher's way, but there must be some similarity.

[19:37]

Similarity means they must be on the same page, fundamentally. The teacher and the student must be transmitting the same dharma, but one person does it one way and the other one does it another way, because we're all different, and we all have a different way of expression, and we should have our own way of expression. I think when the student really learns the teacher's way and is absorbed into the teacher's way, then when they have transmission, then they find their own way. I always think about Dizzy Gillespie and Roy Eldridge, great trumpet players, but Dizzy Gillespie learned everything that Roy Eldridge ever played. And he played like him. at first, and then he emerged as his own person. So transmission is kind of like that.

[20:37]

And it has nothing much to do with words. There's levels of transmission. One level is a priest receiving dharma transmission through a ceremony with his teacher. Another way is that all the students that practice with us together are continually receiving transmission. It's not something reserved for the priests, but it's a different reflection. It's like the priests authorize in a certain way to do certain things, but that doesn't mean that all the other students have not received transmission. It's You know, in the Sandokai, it says the great sage of India was communicating from west to east, the branching streams flow on in the dark.

[21:39]

The branching streams flow on in the dark means that the transmission flows on unseen or unobserved, unspoken. It's just, you know it. through your relationships. So we develop a certain kind of trust and we know it's there, but it's not necessarily spoken. So the disciple It cannot be exactly like the teacher's way, but there must be some similarity. Even though they are similar, actually what they do is quite different. Teacher and disciples usually speak the same language. I don't mean Japanese or English, but by language I mean this. This kind of language.

[22:42]

Noah is big. He likes that word. We should be able to understand each other in that way. That is what he calls Roku Jintu, the six supernatural powers of the Arhats. They understand completely. They understand something which is beyond words. They understand something which is more than what is told in our language. They understand something which is... this kind of relationship that should be between teacher and disciple. Even though disciples are living apart from their teacher, there must be that kind of communication, or else they're not teacher and disciple. How that is possible is because of our true practice, through our true practice of zazen. Nyokin Sensaki and another Japanese priest, Sohan Roshi.

[23:48]

On New Year's Eve, Sohan Roshi lived in Japan and Nyogen Senzaki lived here in San Francisco. And on New Year's Eve, they would bathe each other across the ocean. So, and I always felt, when I was in Berkeley, my teacher was in San Francisco and eventually at Tassajara. But I always felt that we were always practicing together, continuously. Distance is not a barrier. If we know what our practice is, and we have that kind of relationship where we're simply bound to each other, the practice develops. Because it doesn't come from outside. It comes from inside.

[24:51]

So he said, generally speaking, before you become your teacher's disciple, you may receive his transmission. This is mysterious. And after receiving transmission, you will realize what was transmission, and who was your teacher. when it is too late maybe, but you will come to that point if you continue your practice. So there's no need to worry. Even if you receive transmission or lay ordination before you know what it was, even though you are ordained before you have much understanding of the ordination ceremony, that's okay, I think. If you feel some commitment to continue your practice, that is okay. Someday you will realize it. And then he says, from the beginning, I thought that Gokurjun Sobong was my teacher. But on the other hand, I found out many years later that I was not his disciple at that time.

[26:01]

I thought I was. I had a strong conviction that I was the disciple of my teacher. But I found out that I was not his disciple in his true sense. Very mysterious. And now I think, I am his disciple. But I don't know how I'll feel next year. Next year I may say, oh last year I was his disciple. In this way, your teacher is always with you. Sometimes he is with you, but sometimes you feel he is not your teacher. Or he was not your teacher. This happens all the time. I experience this all the time. They go away, and when they come back, hide, as if they never got away. But they think they've been away. The teacher has to have great, enormous patience.

[27:09]

Do not expect anything. To have absolutely no expectations. No more need to say anything. This happens all the time. Anyway, but it's okay anyway. You will be the teacher. Day after day we have a strong conviction in our relationship, but that's not complete. Our relationship should be extended forever. So anyway, you are bound to be your master's disciple. The relationship is there. Buddha is taking care of it, whether you understand it or not. The relationship between the teacher and the disciple is so wide and so deep that our small mind cannot understand what it is.

[28:14]

There's no other way to understand the relationship between teacher and disciple. So... We think maybe we understand what transmission is, but we... Anyway, but it's really so deep that we may never understand it completely. It actually is beyond our understanding. So the only way is day by day. You should just bow to your teacher. That's the only way. It is day-to-day practice. And it is practice just for that moment. Even though you don't know how to bow to your teacher, you are related to your teacher anyway.

[29:17]

So if you don't... If you don't, you don't feel so good. So if you do it, you feel good. That's all. You know, at Tassajara, we always bow to each other. Every time we meet, in a monastery, every time you meet somebody on the path or anywhere, you always bow to each other. You don't have to say anything. It's like a more silent kind of practice. So, you know, say, Hi, howdy, how are you, and all that. You just bow. And then, that's transmission right there. We're transmitting to each other all the Dharma, all the time. It's not like there's some special thing. Dharma is being transmitted through our practice continually. And that's what keeps our practice alive. That's the vitality of our practice. Sometimes I bow to somebody here because we don't practice that so much

[30:27]

because we're in and out of the gate, you know. But sometimes I'll bow to somebody in the morning when I come, and they'll say, I don't know, what if I'm startled? But we should bow to each other. That's the best way. That's all. So it's better. anybody that you meet, any of your good friends. So it's not so difficult to bow to your teacher. So it is better to bow to your teacher even though you don't know who he is. You may not know who he is. As a matter of fact, if he does know who he is, that's at stake. Because as long as we don't know who we are, we know who we are.

[31:31]

Perhaps you may not understand what I'm saying right now, but actually, if you have someone you can trust, you will feel good. And if you have someone who entrusts your responsibility, you feel good. So in that way, we can live forever, and we will have eternal life, because we're always Our true life is the Dharma, and as long as the Dharma is being passed down, that's our true life. We do have a personal life, but our personal life is the Dharma, the heart of practice, the heart of our existence, our Buddha nature. We're expressing our Buddha nature all the time. I don't know how to get my buddhanature. I don't know how to express it. I don't know how to find it. How do I find my buddhanature? It's a great question. It's a great question. How do I find my buddhanature? You talk about buddhanature all the time.

[32:36]

How do I find my buddhanature? When you bow, you find your buddhanature. It's right there. It's always, you know, when we talk about It's right in front of us all the time. It's not like there's something special to find. It's like what we find is the special thing. Your nose. That's the special thing. But it's nothing special. Nothing special, but it's the most special thing. Your breath. When you get down to it, what's left? When everything else is gone, what's left? The heart and the breath. Blood. A little bit of mind. This. So, sharing our responsibilities with many people, meaning the Sangha.

[33:43]

That is the relationship between the teacher and the disciple. And that is why we recite the sutra for our teachers every morning. Do you have any questions? I'm kind of curious about the actual context of this talk, because he probably gave this talk before he had given any of his disciples transmission, right? And so I'm wondering... Let me think about that a minute. Well, this is 1970. So I think he had given Richard Baker a common transmission. And that's kind of why he talked about it, I think. But he talked about it because David Chandler wanted him to give some talks on the service that he did. And that's why he did that. But in talking about why we do the ancestors, he has to talk about why we chant the names of the ancestors.

[34:50]

He inevitably has to talk about the transmission. Thank you. So we all have Buddha nature and we practice to awaken to that Buddha nature, awaken to that reality that we are Buddha nature. And the teacher has nothing to transmit to us. So what's the role of a teacher? The role of a teacher is to encourage you through thick and thin. A teacher is dedicated to your well-being, meaning finding yourself, finding your true nature. That's the only thing a teacher... that's what a teacher's life is about. So somebody may say, well, how does he... what does he know? Does he know what we do? Maybe, maybe not.

[35:51]

Sometimes you're the teacher. Sometimes I'm the teacher. But at the same time, I'm always the teacher, and you're always the student. But that's another thing that Suzuki Roshi is very expressed. He says, sometimes I bow down to you as the teacher. Sometimes you bow down to me as the teacher. But at the same time, in this lifetime, I'm the teacher. Dhobin talks about face-to-face transmission. He talks about it in a way that there actually is some place to meet. Where you're seeing with the same eye, or you're hearing with the same eye. So there is some way together, without separation, to experience.

[36:54]

That's right. It's like the two become one. But that's not something extra. It's because the two become one because they're already one. It's not like I'm giving this. Something happens. Something happens. But it's not... It's a different way of talking about transmission. It's not like... It's not like that. It's because you already have transmission, the ceremony is a confirmation. The ceremony is a confirmation. When we meet mind to mind, it just happens. It's not like, you know, it's like, this is why it's hard to have a school.

[38:02]

When you have a school, then you have classes and grades and a kind of step ladder practice. You reach this level and then you're enlightened or something. That's not our practice. Our practice is the pears are on the tree and they're all ripening on the tree. And then when you feel, oh this one's ripe, can hang on a tree for 25 years, like a tick waiting for somebody to... A tick can wait on him for 20 years for something warm to walk by. But the plum is ripe, right? So it's not a matter of how long or what, you know.

[39:06]

It's like this wonderful story about the White Ox, you know, back in China. I tell this story a lot. The student was on Mount Isan. And he was a disciple of Isan. I'm not Isan. He says, I was not Isan for 20 years. I didn't pay attention to Isan's teaching. I just ate Isan's food and I shit Isan's shit. All I did was take care of a water buffalo. And he was so wild, you know, he was off here and there, he'd trample people's gardens, you know, and then he'd follow everybody that's, you know, you know, who are you, you know, and he'd just go, he was really wild. And I just, every time he did something bad, I'd give him a whip.

[40:07]

And after a while, after about 20 years, now, he's such an adorable one. He just stands in front of my face all the time, and even if I try to shoo him away, he won't go. But, you know, you may have seen Isan's transmission. That's why practice is so important, daily practice, because you get it when your practice is in your bones and there's nothing else. And even your understanding, you may not be able to communicate so well, you may not have wide knowledge, but you have IT. And IT doesn't depend on all those things.

[41:08]

And then when the teacher and the student both recognize IT, We see like two cups of water flowing into each other. And you know, there's brightness. And even then, you may have to wait a while. It's like, you know, in the story about Joshu, understanding, He may have really, you know, teacher gave him the transmission, but he told him to wait for 20 years to write them. It's very common, very common in China for the teacher to give the student dharma transmission, to recognize dharma transmission, but for the student to mature for 20 years before teaching.

[42:13]

That's very common. In America, everybody's so eager. We need teachers in America, so we allow people to start teaching with their fingers crossed. Even me! Well, here we are bowing to ourselves and the Buddha within us, but we're also bowing to the homage to all the ancestors. There's an awful lot of Buddhas in the world. That's right. When you bow to your cushion, you're bowing to everyone that came before you. All the ancestors that came before you. And when you turn around and bow out, you're bowing to everyone in the world. So that's our practice. To honor the past and pass it on to the future. And practice it in the present. Everyone is transmitting.

[43:22]

All of the practitioners should be doing that. And that's a selfless activity. And when there's a selfless activity, that's expressing our Buddha nature. We express our Buddha nature through selfless activity, even though selfish activity is also Buddha nature, but it's not being expressed. Do you have another question? Yes. Hi. Thank you so much. I would like to share with you when you said about practicing. I was in Iran for six months and I feel I was here and I was practicing in different ways and the practice I had, I could do over there, I could not do Buddhism.

[44:30]

And I was doing Qigong. And what I'm hearing right now is, I was doing my practice. I was bowing from there to you. And then, that's what I'd like to share. And I feel that vitality. Every time I was bowing to my student, I was feeling and bowing to you. And then I had that energy exchange. Thank you for that.

[44:59]

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