Three Different Kinds Of Mind

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weekend
as you all know the day is the
you saying the word anniversary feels funny because does not feel like an anniversary but as the twentieth year after nine eleven in a chapter is closed with the united states exiting
so i just wanted to read a brief paragraph from two or three page statement that the dalai lama met a made right after the original nine eleven ah event and
here here's something that he said
ah we must continue to develop a wider perspective to think rationally and work to avert future disasters in a nonviolent way
these issues concern the whole of humanity not just one country
we should explore the use of nonviolence as a long term measure to control terrorism of every kind
but we need a well thought out coordinated long term strategy
the proper way of resolving differences is through dialogue compromise and negotiations through human understanding and humility
we need you appreciate that genuine peace comes about through a mutual understanding respect and trust
as i have already said human problems should be solved in a humanitarian way and nonviolence is the humane approach in this context to punish an entire country for the misdeeds of an enemy who cannot be found may may
prove to be futile
dealing with such situations as we face now requires a broader perspective on the one hand we cannot simply identify a few individuals and put the entire blame on men but neither can we target an entire country for inevitably the enough
awesome will suffer just as i did in the usa on eleven september
ah basically will
turned out to be right in my opinion
also just interesting i think many people can remember i'm assuming that many people can remember where they were were when they first learned about nine eleven as it was happening because it was such an incomprehensible
phenomena we just had never seen anything like that and
we didn't have any preference for that
so ah however we relate to that i just wanted to mention bring up nine eleven ah were all involved in some way how being in the bay area where a little
you know compared to some of the other countries have we have a fairly easy in terms of things that we take for granted
so what i wanted to talk about this morning was his three different kinds of mind which are all interrelated
and a key to zen practice ah open mind beginner's mind an ordinary mind
there are just different aspects of really the same kind of awareness in my opinion
so i'm open mind is
he notice a new normal term does not used and particularly in buddhism is just an everyday term that americans use all the time hopefully
ah i'm assuming i would assume that most people feel they have an open mind for particularly in his own community but i mean other than that ah i think most people like to think of themselves as being open minded but
my experiences with myself and with others is that are you in a gross way we are but in a subtle way we're not ah who we have our opinions and when we hear some opinion that runs contrary to ours or bothers us very difficult to be open minded

ah
in a way our opinions and that
our attitudes kind of protect us it gives us a sense of who we are and some security we know where we stand
being open to different points of view particularly when their counter to what we really believe is pretty difficult
genuinely speaking to really be genuine where that is pretty difficult
an utmost i think is it involves respect whether you agree with somebody or not the respect for that person ah
ah
having something came up from my school and hodgson mill
whether you agree with that person or not ah is that is respect for the person who has a different opinion than we do
an open mind can do you know mostly we talk about it in terms of relating to other people but even in nature i'll open mind is a possible or close mind as possible we just came back from vacation and mendocino
and i love wide open spaces ah in the mountains but we couldn't go up there because it was so smoky so he worked on the coast ah near fort bragg and mendocino and i don't particularly like redwood forest i feel kind of enclosed with him but we spent the guess what
happening up there along with the coast so when we were annette or on a redwood walk gay you know i appreciated the mag the majesty of them are the same time he wasn't my thing so now what i could see my own closed attitude toward a so i can try do appreciate
eight just forget my attitude about it and that
i just see it for what it was not compare it with something that i like better
it kind of worked
and i you can see this with
even a response to coven for bc see you know there's a committee working on how to
how to reopen bcc is difficult because they're so much data coming in and it changes
and people have different opinions about it to some pretty emotional so how do you stay opened everybody's opinion and yet fine trying to find the the best way that works for the most people
it's a big responsibility so i appreciate leadership
yeah dealing with that and i my experiences they definitely have an open mind about it
and it's difficult is very difficult to get up to make everybody happy because people think differently
but being opened in different opinions is really key
and is as in a open mind is just when we said you know everybody experiences going off on various stories to pass the future a problems with got in a little fantasies we've got you in all experienced that and continue to experience it
but just having an open mind ah you don't need to go into we don't need to go into our traumas we can just be there just right there and just being there it may not be as exciting or stimulating as a particular drama having gets the
problem but being open to just being there sitting still ah when we you know where we like we have were used to a level of stimulation so we do we don't have that unless we started thinking and thinking and thinking so i think that's part of open mind as
just letting that go and just being open to just the experience of just sitting still

blake gave a talk a couple of weeks ago very nice talk actually and talked about salsa dancing
and
and how how you enjoy salsa dancing
and then after he had talked for a while deb asked him a question well how about following the following i'm not a dancer but i imagine that that means the one person is leading when person's following so i looked it up on youtube salsa dancing and i watched his couple dancing together and
amazingly coordinated and in sync with each other it was extraordinary
and i realized you know that they were equal even the ones leading ones following
they both are equal in terms of their sensitivity to what the other is doing
and so blake's answer to ah what what is how do you feel about following was well it's like listening
and down
hasn't that was a really good answer
because he intends to open mind to really listen to people
he just the most ordinary away we use the term deep listening some time and i you know what i cannot
i have some resistance to the term deep listening because why can't we did that all the time why do we have to make it something special we should always be do a deep listening yeah which is just open minded listening
but we always have our agendas and that's part of what our listening

so moving on to a beginner's mind

you know that as we all know zen mind beginner's mind and suzuki roshi book which is probably been in print for over fifty years that which is extraordinary for a buddhist book ah
and
ah
it is wonderful that he picked you know they take that it to be a title
because a beginner is not an expert so good isn't can be overwhelming in terms of its breadth and scope and depth and profundity henriette and reality
but there's tremendous amount of material and buddhism so his book is a beginner starts where the beginner for everybody can relate to that hopefully
as we get older maybe it's hard to relate to being a beginner although as we age we go through different phases and were a beginner that phase you know their bodies start giving out her i can say that from experience
ah
and that thing about beginning beginner's mind is that we all have experiences being beginners but as most maybe and we just gonna be a little presumptuous chris particularly when you were younger when we're kids it's all beginner's mind you know if we haven't been here before and that
ah
you know it's all new
i can remember learning how to do a handwriting when i think it is in first grade and
when it felt like to try to mate a letters that were like to what the teacher did on the board and it was really hard unless not good at that i it was hard for me to do that and i just felt lost like i didn't know how to go about doing it will eventually i settled on well if i just make all the letters hit the
line on the line paper the now be some kind of even this to it so that was my that's how i've that was my progress as a beginner but i remember the feeling of really not knowing how to do this and seeing a model have it done really well so i think we've all had
that kind of experience and continue to have any hopefully continue to have that experience you know for really open to all the different kinds of experiences that we could have

when i first started ah
i first started
doing meditation was when showed him trump i came to the bay area in the early seventies
and i went to a workshop that he did actually get right down the street it at a washington school
and i really liked him a lot i really thought it was and really amazingly good teacher
ah so the first meditation experience had was that garment there they were setting a dharma god choose at that time
i'm shot well street in san francisco they had a warehouse and the very first group meditation that i did other than his workshop which was kind of experimental worst every we had a schedule nobody had any experience everybody was sitting in a circle facing each other there was a tie
innkeeper keeper with a schedule now is it nobody had done this before
and there was no experts there there wasn't even a senior person from trump as enterprise there we just had a piece of paper with the schedule on it and it was great you know it we we made it work just by not knowing anything ah by being beginners there is a by
vitality in that and a freshness to that which just worked for something as simple as sitting still even as a group

also the anything about beginner's mind it makes me really trust in zen practice is that it's about ah it's not about accumulating something
you know it's not about how much you accumulate it's about where you're at right now
ah
and i think we were constantly i'm very subtle very domestic acceptable venues always wanting to accumulate something gather something that i'll make us feel good or ah
you don't give us some kind of satisfaction but just dumb
ah not accumulating in a way it's more like letting go there it is accumulating as a beginner just be just be there
and that's why i trust their practice so much and the teachers the good teachers that i teach it ah it's not about how expert you can be it's about basically how they're how we can just be present genuinely

so ah
i would just like to re elena that has little bit later
so now i like to move into the main the just a vote i will want to say which is a ordinary mind is the way
yeah so ordinary mind
in some question about whether beginner's mind that phrase goes back to the chinese and tang dynasty times has talking to hose on about this morning it's a little unclear but likely does
but ordinary mind definitely goes back to tang dynasty and the case ah in a moment con
as an example her ordinary mind as the dow or ordinary mind is the way isn't my favorite case out of all the ones that i've looked at
ah
and it's pretty well known to a lot of people very popular case
but don't take it for granted
because there's there's a lesson in its is quite good
i'll use and another i don't want to assume that everybody's familiar with it so i'm gonna use a yamada collins ah
translation of how he translates or how in japanese and then they translated into english so here's the yamato collins ah description of the case in you're basically basically goes back to the tang dynasty but shows up in the on kahn which came out in more less
a twelve hundreds really at the same time book of serenity did and also when dogan was active
jos you earnestly asked nonsense
what is the way
nonsense answered the ordinary mind is the way
josh you asked should i direct myself toward it or not
nonsense said if you try to turn toward it you go against him
joshua asked if i do not try to turn toward it how can i know that it is the way
non st answered the way does not belong to knowing or not knowing knowing his delusion not knowing is a blank consciousness
when you really when you have really reached the true way beyond doubt doubt you will find it is vast and boundless as outer space how can it be talked about on a level of right and wrong
at these words joshua was suddenly enlightened

and sojourn didn't like the phrase blind consciousness for not knowing so i have other options are you could say
not knowing his ignorance or not knowing his confusion but a blank consciousness bothered him a not quite sure why but it did

so the first so i i've been going through these cases for promote five years book serenity mostly her with several people right now andrea and ellen
and we just a you take one line at a time and try to unwind that line and knowing that his intellectual it's not it's not call on practice in a windsor and a rinzai fashion where the teacher is challenging you to get it on the spot is this an intellectual
all pursued but i find that actually it's helpful
am i can't tell you i expect me it does there's an accumulation of
ah
some kind of familiarity with the point that they're trying to make over and over and over and over again which is that
we have a mental image or we rely on our ideas for our consciousness rather than just being present without knowing without any conditions just being there and the cases are the cons are really all about this and way in various for
matt somebody will ask her profound question about buddhism and a teacher slaps him you know you think that's kind of rough stuff but as a really rough because the teachers trying to wake the person up and let go of your ideas about buddhism and zan being profound this way are profound that way just
just d here now for real
yeah but the there's hundreds of versions of as imagery in the three major con collections
and each one has a little bit different
twist to it
so you know how do i direct myself towards it how should i direct myself towards it and if i don't know if it goes away from me when i do that how should i know it so why why should go away from you and you direct yourself to it
and the reason is i mean this is all just my ah
reasoning i suppose you could say
that as soon as you're moving towards something you have an idea about what that something is
that's how you move towards it you're trying to bring it into focus
and if you have a preset idea about it
ah
all of your conditioning all of our conditioning ah
and past frameworks and habits are all at work because this is just as a reference points
i when we're approaching something to to do with an open mind and
if we have an idea about it
we may have a good we may embellish your idea but it's still gonna be an idea
even if it's three stimulating it'll still be an idea so how do we go beyond ideals and dogma to just actually
being who we actually are without without qualification

so you know joshua was playing the straight man here josh's about twenty years old and nonsense in his fifties josh's medulla is already sort of a brilliant young student so his piece being the straight man
ah
and if he if you try to turn help if i don't try to turn away towards it how can i know that it's the way
ah and then not saying answered the way does not belong to knowing or not knowing
so you think how much ah
of our identity or experiences based on the feeling that we know something
and we become proud of what we know especially if were more expert in a particular discipline or functioning i will become too proud proud of our knowing we know a lot we know more than other people do so and it could be very very subtle especially within zen practice
he can be very subtle but there's plenty to know in zen practice yeah or to think we know and i have some pride in that yeah i've been around a long time you know i'm mean and in i have sort of understand this
so it could be that we understand something but what nonsense is getting at is not knowing something it's more being something

and then he answered the way does not belong to knowing or not knowing
so we set up a duality here between you know or you don't know so he's trying to go beyond that duality this is in a classic non dualism in a zen con you know
how do you go beyond i won't even say beyond
i don't like the word beyond its his bothers me so knowing and not knowing how do you
not depend on
knowing something or not knowing as your reference points what if it's just not a matter of how much you know where you don't know what or who are you then

knowing is a delusion and i think the reason he says that is because you know we we think that this is reality but just just is our idea of reality is not necessarily reality it's our idea of reality
and not knowing his confusion or ignorance
ah
yeah we can not knowing
not knowing is still linked into knowing we're still we're still in the framework of knowing something so what about when we're not in the framework of knowing something how's that feel

when you have really reached the to the true way beyond all doubt you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space
ah
how can it be talked about on a level of right and wrong

so is interesting about doubt
i don't
you know i don't notice that i have a lot of doubt
ah and i have skipped some skepticism sometimes but i don't have a lot of doubt although they kinda look at it more carefully i realize i do i doubt my own being so i think it's
am
one of the great teacher says and be like
yeah
am to have trust in the teacher trust in the teaching and trust in yourself which is had enough trust of the opposite i doubt it's not necessarily but rather than doubt have confidence i think confidence is better
word have confidence in the teacher which i genuinely did with the teachers that i've mostly mostly light and so i stay with sojourn for as long as i have
because i trusted him and had confidence in his
his know what to say i had confidence in his being
ah
so
ah so confidence in
he didn't take the easy way out he wasn't he wasn't a formalistic teacher
in some ways yeah well as some ways he was he had the same kind of stick over and over again sometimes but he had a quality of
being real
and being human also

so having confidence in your teacher having confidence in the teaching ah and then confidence in yourself
ah
is
ah related to doubt and we have if we doubt one of those three we have a problem
so and then might have four yard is my he's a kind of a minor league and minor league and terms of being known tang dynasty teacher zen teacher i really like a lot ah
and i
he said you know when i finally cleared up my doubt
but then everything was clear i didn't really understand what he meant i still don't really understand what he meant but i have some inkling to it then cause i had no doubt in the teacher no doubt in the and the teaching but i do doubt myself
so
ah
how does thou work in terms of ah really being able to be present right now right here
and we're talking about the subtle kind to not the gross doubt but to settled down
at these words joshi was suddenly enlightened or at least you had a realization experienced this has put it that way
and then there's a verse that goes with this that damn
oh so it just one thing i wanted to add that i forgot to say
in terms of knowing and not knowing there's a story about suzuki roshi that working on his on doing helping with him with other people at it a book about hear about
a of surgeons roshi some
lectures and his memoir i came on this little story which is that at tassajara one day
suzuki roshi love to move huge rocks down a tulsa whore his dream and he'd moved them into place in the gardens and even the memorial site where he was eventually buried was a rock a big rock that he had moved up there with a help of many other people with you don't
taking all day in undergo a cert certain number of feet
and he's down there in the stream that one day with with several and his helpers working on this moving as he joked enormous rock and somebody stands up on is standing up on the
bank saying what are you doing down there and suzuki roshi call back i don't know
so herself on
i can just imagine that and it is perfect example of not knowing you know i don't know
but he was very he was very young
meticulous about him at the same time
so at the end of ordinary mind is the way there's a verse in which on right in human rights verse for every case in the move on con
and his verses the spring flowers the moon in autumn
the cool breezes of summer the winter's snow
if idol concerns do not cloud the mind this is our happiest season
i'm just curious how many people are familiar with that first having seen a seat read this case could just put your hand up and is curious
about ass okay thanks i'll read a one more time the spring flowers the moon and autumn the cool breezes of summer the winter's snow
if idol concerns do not cloud the mind this is our happiest season
so now i'm in i'm sort of veer off into territory which is ah
a taken a chance of sticking my neck out and cause i haven't heard anybody else to discuss it like i or had to take on it like i have so i just tell you my take on this
and i don't know why
i'm maybe i'm missing something but i don't know why it hasn't come up in other commentaries
it strikes me that it's interesting that after it is the ordinary mind is the way case which is very all about non-duality
and you're not not knowing known not knowing and not not knowing fall about not an open mind and non-duality
oh there's one problem about where you can that's easy to say but what is it there prevents us from being able to see that to deceive to be able to to ah i once they understand body non-duality or be aware of non-duality
may be better way to sand along with diet duality
and the reason is just was obvious in all of our experiences our minds are constantly working churning out ideas thoughts plans have judgments ah i like this i don't like that i'm going to move over towards this kind of food i don't like that kind of food and what
i wish i had more that kind of food that kind of start and we all do it
so the case is very non dualistic but memon is going at just as one line if idol concerns do not cloud the mind so he's conditioning this whole case on that which is pretty bold and i think it's absolutely appropriate to mention is kind of
it's actually kind of prosaic if you think about it because the case is so vast you know as vast like outer space
ah even though we're saying is the ordinary
ah
but the verse is saying yes this all you know this is your best moment right now ah
as long as
idle concerned don't cloud our mind
this is just basic buddhist meditation idol concerns clouding our minds so the combination of those two emphasises is really interesting to me and i don't see anybody else commenting on it so i don't know why
maybe they're they don't want to get down in the weeds and ticket out to be picky like i'm being

i'm i had a shows on a session with a surgeon removed within the last year so actually one of our ethic africa when it was exactly
and this is relates to ordinary mind and my question to him was what is ordinary mind
and he said good question
i felt as good and then ah he said holy
oh no shit
whoa is you know like like christianity kind of holy in your come on in our holy
and i said i don't understand he said i know how is it for is
totally unsatisfying shows and exchanged
but then a working on an eddie helping to editors book i came upon a a and actually and he actually he has a
whole
lecture which will show up in the book about ordinary mind is the way he goes off on a lot of tangents within it the such a thing but still is in the bill would be in the book hopefully
oh and as part of the material that was associated with that from the original transcript he said that when he was in elementary school is a or anyway in school some time he the teacher told them that the word holy comes from the word whole
and it means wholeness so it doesn't have her necessarily have a religious or deity kind of a meaning to it
it could just mean wholeness he out
ah so like holistic
the
ah ho holistic see holistic health you know it use a little bit of everything can take from every direction
so that's kinda how he was saying the word holy but i didn't know that and have kind of irritated me because they are you know holy has its kind of meaning that we associate with you know the holy pope in are the kind of
a deity involved somehow

and then
in his talk he says something like holy an ordinary go together
ah
and
what we call what we call if everything is ordinary everything we do at the same time it's wholly so that's kind of like this is your best season each thing is your best season ah
if you can see it like that

so that's what he meant want to use the word holy to hold all ordinary and holy go together
and suzuki roshi also said you know we are ah who we are ordinary people and we are also buddhas
so really suzuki roshi was saying the same kind of thing only with different words
i think of it like
ah some kind of equality
ah
that if there's if you believe in god
there's a right and wrong in the universe
and god determines what's right and what's wrong and their scriptures that will tell you what how god feels apparently
if you don't believe in god
where's the authority it wears a universal authority but what's right what's wrong
that's that's absolutely trustworthy within different spheres are humans fear we have our humans fear was as right and wrong in order to get along murdering somebody is wrong helping somebody is right
generally speaking
so in a humans fear but in a universal sphere ah you know
you by neptune they don't get may not be there issue so
yeah a universal spirit there's absolute equality who's to say that one thing is more important than the other
so i think that's what you're getting at in in that verse
and that that's how i would describe it is the equality of each thing being ah
i'm alive for what it is rather than ranking it as being more and more more or less useful more or less this are more or less that
so close i just wanted to read suzuki roshi is
have they can find it
suzuki roshi did his own translation of the case which i've is it is a kind of idiosyncratic translation it's not literal it's his own it's his way of teaching us at the same time is translating the case
and i just think it's terrific i was wanted to read it to you this is suzuki roshi his take on on the translation of ordinary mind is the way or the how he would translate it
one day nonsense and allow joshi and medium in his room
joe you as nonsense what is the true way
ordinary mind is a true way said nonsense
is it something to be attained were not to be attained asked your shoe to try to attain it is to avert from it said nonsense
when you do not try to attain it how do you know the true way asked your shoe to this question nonsense answer was very polite
the true way is not a matter to be known or not to be known to know is to have a limited idea of it
and not to know is a psychological unawareness
if you want to achieve the absolute where there is no doubt you should be clear enough and vast enough to be like empty space
hereby joshua acquired full understanding of the true way of zen that's my favorite version of this case and i can't can improve on that ever
so we have some time for questions or comments or just agreements also so please speak up if you want to
i'm blake will you call a people
yes i will run a christian please on yourself and ask questions
i think iraq iran
i am
so where sojourn and i disagree i opened up dialogue with loving and tensions go that
his memory that a blessing her head now i heard you are
what do you say
how to keep our collective mind open and becoming an accent and i'll end up ah
and thank you for your hobby shop
thank you
oh how could you focus out a little bit more like that there's a problem there with people have different feelings about how is it reopen at the committee is responsible for making the decisions is trying to weigh all those possibilities so think so and i'm not quite sure what your question is mean how do
you what's the best way to do that
oh yeah i get the best way oh i think just the way they're doing it is pretty good i've i've been around the discussions and
they said well you know we read this then you know especially with the delta variant coming up things are changing we thought it was gonna be this but now it's that so and fact she said this last weekend and since they also said that and then but we also know that the people in the saga are really hurting for not been back in person
so i think that they're my feeling as they're airing on the side of caution just to be protective of people that's more important than
the that has a priority over
satisfying people who aren't want to get back into action
and i think it's ah ha i sort of i relate to that attitude of pointing to protect people physically actually ah
but ah
if i was you know it's an enormous position of responsibility to that's what i think of and really really kind of basically the bottom lines hose on how he feels about it think about the responsibility there and when i think about the responsibility of that person or those few people have to to call
all it
and i just feel respectful of their process know adam haven't known that they're really really are thinking about this way in that way and they're really not closing anything off
hmm
they are going to let your friends name by the way
mellow what is it a mellow mellow mellow yet
novella
patna guy
thank you christian ross bluhm please on meet yourself and ask a question
he hey ross you soak up grossed out and we should
practice subtle doubt could you say little about the diverse as you see that are those to doubt
oh no i didn't say practices i said the aware of it ah oh well that's what i meant i could have said practice it but what i meant was be aware of it
it's
ah
there are grossed out and subtle doubts as things that the much harder to be aware self aware of the subtle doubts because we're so used to it we don't even notice it maybe we just take it for granted that's who we are
could you give an example the several doubt that you have
ah yes is too convoluted psychologically
let's go to canada
is jen i can uncommon lunatic oh god if you know
ah easily as a lack of some confidence i think
yeah
based on my whole life study you know growing up in a certain got away and i and being in touch with us that kind of doubt is important in subtle and so yeah i think that the subtleties of our habits the really that our habits that are really subtle
psychological habits that are subtle or
yeah if we can tune into them that's good
i don't know what you should do with them but just being aware of it have a get when you're aware of something you begin to experience it more
i agree that significant start and a good manager thank you very much thanks you alan web please unmute yourself and ask your questioner make a comment
my gosh was actually somewhat similar to wrasses so i won't repeat that but i wondered if you could read the last line of the
that suzuki roshi is a translation or whatever interpretation of the colon which includes or doubt i think
okay with it
oh yeah if you want to achieve the absolute if you want to achieve the absolute where there is no doubt you should be clear enough and vast enough to be like empty space so i think that debts
but how i read that as is the way i read for yawns doubt that even though they've they've had a kind of realization experiences
there's some question about

i they really on the are they
ah
there's some question about do they really haven't right or
it's actually i don't know their experience so i'm just you know funding around i can't really tell you how they feel i don't know but to kinda doubt that he's talking about i think is there's no question you're just aligned with the reality as is is not a matter
of
maybe i am maybe i'm not you know it's just there's an alignment they're happening i don't know what that experiences like so i don't wanna speculate on it but that's what i that's how i try to understand what you're saying that term
that
because you know calling your mana talks a lot about ah
no excuse me your article on talks a lot about people having a can show experience and then being caught on their cultural experience and hadn't clinging to it so ah i think it's something like that were
they and they have some realization but there's still some uncertainty there's still some question and and when the doubt when that goes away there's a difference that's what i think he's talking about but
hey i don't i don't personally have that kind of experience so i don't know
maybe one more yes sunday l puppies
i'm yourself in ask a question or make a comment
her talk and i love how you interpreted trust in yourself the teaching and teacher i am confident i what do you think the role of faith pass along this cat
cold blood between confidence and pay
that's a hard question and
ah this it's too hard for me data to to answer that but am
my feeling about faith is
ah
i would call it trust actually that you you have you trust something you have faith in something
ah

that there's a bit but for me there's an important distinction that it's
trust that
ha

his trust is not dependent upon some kind of verification and it's also not dependent on upon a police system
it's
so i don't know how to i don't know how to articulate it but for me i can talk about as my experience with faith and i have great faith in zen practice it doesn't mean that it's perfect or that there are problems with it but it all in all i think it's a really good road
to beyond ah and i just have faith in that and various teachers the best teachers that i've seen i have faith in them even if they have glitches and problems so it doesn't depend on them being perfect it doesn't believe it doesn't depend on god existing are not existing is more
moreover
ah
continents in something that's not doesn't have to be proven you don't have to prove it anymore it in it it it includes it's it's it's got enough given the faith has got enough given it that it doesn't have to be exactly
perfect
that's the best i can do it it's tricky faces tricky cause faith means different things to different people
how about yourself
i think work came up for me while you're speaking well a
a component and or listening than surrender and and i think if your embodying bang bang you're definitely embodying confident that well so yeah i mean outfit where they don't need my wealth training good
this the most we can ask for
i thank you
okay thanks everybody
i realize you to answer a little bit loose when i stumbled through this but let's just just wait of sorry but i'm happy to talk