Good morning, everyone. It gives me a great pleasure to introduce our Dharma uncle, Edward. Edward began sitting at Zen Center on Bush Street in May of 1965, a year after Sojin Roshi, making him our Dharma uncle. And as a good uncle and Dharma brother to Sojin, when Sojin went to Tassahara, and monitoring the residents for the students that were gathered there on Dwight Way. As a Tenzo who supervised the preparation of meals at Tassajara, Edward subsequently published a number of books on bread baking, cooking, and helped to establish the Green's Restaurant at Fort Mason. Suzuki Roshi ordained him as a priest on September 11, 1971, giving him the name Jusankane, longevity, mountain, peaceful sea.

[01:04]

Sojin Roshi gave him Dharma entrustment in September 1996. He edited the book, Not Always So, a companion volume to Suzuki Roshi's lectures in Zen Mind Beginner's Mind. Edward is the subject of Doris Dory's documentary, How to Cook Your Life. available on Canopy streaming services through our public libraries. He lives in August 2018 and currently lives at The Land in Philo, California, where he leads meditation practice five days a week. Please give a warm welcome to Ed before he leaves us. Okay.

[02:15]

Thank you very much, Ross. That was a brilliant introduction. I'm delighted to be here today. As Ross mentioned, I have not at the San Francisco Zen Center, an equally long history off and on with the Berkeley Zen Center, including living on Dwight Way for nine months in 1973 while Mel was at Tassajara, at which time I met some of you probably. Most of my companions in those days are no longer in the immediate Berkeley Zen Center. But Norman and Kathy and Blanche and Lou and many people who were male students, I practiced with them in 1973. Maylee Scott, Rebecca Maieno, Dolly Gattosi, many, many people there.

[03:22]

And it's... You know, in its way, as you know, those of you who practice there, it's a good scale. It's not a huge institution, and it's not a little hole in the wall. And we have Sojin Roshi to thank for that, and then Suzuki Roshi and Zen lineage going back. many centuries. So good morning. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me, Ross. And before we get started, I'd like to invite everyone to do something that's a bit unusual.

[04:29]

But on the other hand, not so unusual. We each are sitting in our own space, in our own place, with our own ground. And I'd like to invite you to connect your ground with the ground where I'm sitting, California. And, you know, you might wonder, how do I do that? And you just go ahead and do it. connect your ground with my ground, ask your ground, would you connect with Edward's ground and let the ground take care of it. And then also you can ask the space that you're sitting in, the space, which on one hand is your space and the space, which is the space we all share. You can ask your space to connect with the space where I am.

[05:33]

So you can ask the ground to connect with the ground where I am. You can ask the space to connect with the space I am. On the other hand, simply acknowledging, we share the same ground, we share the same space, and both the ground and the space, each in their own way are inconceivable. Thank you. I just got a copy of David Chadwick's new book, still fairly new Zen is right now. The first book of Suzuki Roshi stories, which came out maybe 20 years was first called to shine a light on Suzuki Roshi's teaching to shine a light in one corner of the world.

[07:01]

And you change the title of that book to Zen is right here. So now we have a companion volume, Zen is right now. And as I do with books, I open it up randomly to have a quote for today. And it was from a Shosan ceremony at Tassajara. Maybe it was one of you. And the question is something like, if there's no past, And no future. And we can't grasp the present. What's the point of asking a question? And Roshi said. To speak something unknown. To talk. So. Here I am. Saying something that hasn't been said before. Since. this moment hasn't been here happened before.

[08:06]

Each moment is an unheard of unknown being revealed presently. And I consider Dharma talks not so much, you know, there's kinds of talks For teachings, one is where you give out information. And then you can be tested to see if you have the information that was given out. Under your hat or under your belt. You're keeping it around somewhere. For the examinations. And then there's the kind of talks which are. you know, more what Suzuki was she called and the Japanese Zen teachers have the sense of a speaking body to or heart to heart rather than speaking from the usual kind of talk which gives out information is speaking from one head to another head.

[09:23]

And you can open the book and read it or you can have somebody So I'm in the business of speaking body to body, heart to heart. And we'll see how it goes. But that also means then that this is a conversation. I'm not here to dispense the correct understanding. As though you didn't already have it. we're starting with the basis of, you know, the first line, I think it's the jewel mirror Samadhi. The mind of the great sage of India has been intimately communicated from east to west. Now you have it. Now you have it. Keep it well. And this is the basic sense sensibility.

[10:29]

Again, Going back to our Japanese teachers, a Suzuki Roshi, I remember, would say, you know, you might think that you start with practice, sitting zazen, and then you study, and you can read sutras, and then you get enlightened. But on the other hand, the reason you sit is because you are enlightened. You're already enlightened, so you sit. That's wisdom, you know, functioning wisdom to bring yourself to the cushion. So this brings me to my topic for today. By the way, you can all hear me.

[11:29]

You have enough. Okay. Okay. I'm talking for me, I'm talking rather quietly. So thanks to the technology here at work. So today I thought I would, you know, in my vernet, you know, talk about the one, you know, or the pivotal key instruction that Zen Master Dogen gives for meditation. Think not thinking. Think not thinking. There's a lot of, you know, set aside your judgments, your plans, your schemes, your assessments. And then he has you cross your legs and put your hands and put your palms up and fingers on top of fingers and you lean from side to side.

[12:34]

And he says, settle into steady immobile, upright sitting. Think not thinking. Got it. And for the most part, we'd much, you know, that's a little challenging. It's a bit of a koan. How do you think not thinking? Oh, let's think about that. It's pretty funny when you think about it. If you want to, if you start to wonder, what is that? What is that think not thinking? This is, so I'm going to, start by giving you and talking about this, some more of Suzuki Rishi's teachings.

[13:37]

Forgive me, you know, the man is mid-dead for more than 50 years, and all I know to teach is the Zen I learned from him. So, along since then, and the Dharma is ageless, and here I am. Anyway, Suzuki Rishi said, you know, at Tazahara one night, At the end of the evening, life is basically impossible. Good night. People were kind of like, what? And finally, the next day, you know, there's Zazen, there's Kin In, there's Zazen, there's service, there's breakfast, there's study. Morning there was a lecture and somebody said after the lecture, any questions? And someone had a chance to say, Roshi, last night you said life is basically impossible.

[14:41]

What are we going to do? And he said, you do it every day. So every day we do thinking. We don't figure out. We don't think about. Well, shall I make the day now? Is it time to take another breath? You know, and what's to actually is to is to make plans to do something. And in this vein, you know, we have Suzuki Rishi's teaching. Oh, you know, over many years, sit without any, Zen is to sit without any idea of gain, without any idea of gain, without any picture, without any image, without some aim.

[15:49]

That's as hard as think not thinking, isn't it? And people would say, but Roshi, Why would we sit if we don't have anything, if we can't aim for some result? And he would say, there may be results, but they're not necessarily what you're aiming for. They're unlikely to be what you're picturing and aiming. And you're trying to produce an experience that would validate you and the importance of your being here and your practice and validate you and as though you had now you, it was okay for you to be you. Yet the mind of the great sage of India has been intimately communicated.

[16:56]

You already have it. And yet we're busy. We get busy like I'm going to become a better me. I'll have more understanding. I'll have more wisdom. I'll get some concentration. I'll get some understanding. And I'll be able to do this impossible life better. And it's worked out so well, hasn't it? This impossible life. And it's become all the more possible, right? I don't know about you, maybe so, you know, some people I think their life becomes more possible, but in my world, it's not always so. I said, you know, Ross gave a elaborate, you know, introduction and, and I sent him actually 200. The other one said, I dropped out of college to go to the mountains and attain true realization.

[17:59]

My life is about dropping out. It hasn't worked, you know. And then in about 1964 and then 1976, I was chairman of the board, president of Zen Center and head of practice for the city center, chairman of the board and president of a $4 million a year religious corporation. That's not what I set out to do. So I dropped out and became a busboy at Greens. Two or three years go by, and I was the chairman. I was the manager of Greens and the wine buyer. That's not what I started spiritual practice for. I dropped out. Well, I was asked to lead a practice parade at Tassajara. So I've been assured that that will never happen again.

[19:05]

Because only Abbots are former Abbots lead practice. I've been assured that you will never be an Abbott. So, so much for having aims, and then go to the mountains and attain true realization. Does that look like dropping out? Was I busy thinking, not thinking? And actually, you know, if you think about it, excuse me, another pun on thinking, but if you think about it, all you can do is think, not thinking. This is, Dogen doesn't give teaching, is not already reality. The nature of our life is think, not thinking. There's no such thing as, Thinking. And thinking that your thought and are besieged by this.

[20:12]

You establish the thought and then you do things according to that thought. So you should have good thoughts and good ethics and good standards. And then do what you're told. And don't talk back. Is that good? Is that reality? Or is that oppression? I'm sorry to bring this up. Do what you're told and don't talk back. And we here in Zen have more thoughts than those other people. So you should follow our thoughts because they're spiritual ones. Is that right? Oh, okay. I had the good fortune of working on with Kastanahashi from time to time on Dogen and one of the chapters only a Buddha and a Buddha. And here's some of Dogen's other language for think not thinking.

[21:19]

When you attain realization, he says, you do not think aha, realization, just as I expected. Realization does not take place according to your expectation. And realization does not take place according to your conception. Realization takes place far beyond your conception, far beyond your thinking, far beyond your expectation. Reality takes place your thinking. What you want, what you can conceive, what you can imagine, what you can picture. And wouldn't that look good on my resume? Wouldn't that look good in my, for my pictured self? I have of myself. And those thoughts of self, of course, are just thoughts of self. That's not, you know, that's not reality.

[22:21]

That's well, it's, and Dogen's goes on. He says, so you should be cautious not to, that what you think, The help for realization. You might think, well, I just tell myself to do this and not do that. And and then, of course, at some point you have crises and you find yourself binge drinking or something or or you just work all day. OK. And Dogen says. It's not that past thoughts. were not realization. Fast thoughts already were realization, but you thought, and you were looking elsewhere. You were looking, and you said, well, these thoughts can't be realization. No, you were busy. I'm going to get rid of the thoughts so I can have realization.

[23:22]

Because think not thinking, and you shouldn't be thinking. And if you get rid of your thoughts, Realization. And this brings us to the point that. Dogen wrote the Fukunza Zenki. These instructions for meditation twice. First in 1227. And then again in 1245. And in 1245. Think not thinking. And the Sota school likes to say. Oh that's the instructions he wrote in 1227. You can read up about this in. You know, Carl Bielfeldt's book, Dogen's Meditation Manuals. Carl Bielfeldt was a student of Suzuki Rishi's. He is or was the head of Buddhist studies at Stanford. Suzuki Rishi said, yes, you studied. That's who you are. You need to study.

[24:24]

Please. I once asked Carl, what is this think, not think? I'm not touching that one. So, so much of our, so we get rid of this thinking and I, I could, but so what I started to tell you was the first, the first book on Zsanghi Dogen said, settle into steady and mobile upright sitting. If a thought comes, set it aside. If you do this long enough, quiet and still. Isn't that a gaining idea? And Dogen, another 20 years go by and Dogen, bless his heart, came to think not thinking.

[25:27]

That all of our life is not about thinking. Think this and act accordingly. Do what's right. Don't do what's wrong. It's not about that. We're human beings. We have the mind of the great sage of India. We have ranges of experiences and we have the capacity to dream up what to do with our one wild and precious life, as Mary Oliver calls it. to imagine, to dream up, to intuit, to let the everything come through us and see what's and what is Buddha, the everything, what are we being called upon to do, which is beyond our thinking. It's beyond our following the instructions.

[26:29]

I don't know about you, but you know, I practice seriously Zen. I call it institutional Zen, you know, for 20 years at Tessa Haran City Center. Or, you know, I was committed. And then you get out and like, what do I do now? Well, if you're at Zen Center, you follow the schedule. Who's making up the schedule? I had no practice in making up schedule. The days off were always the hardest. You had no idea what to do. What do I do? So we come up with things to do and we make schedules finally. And it's good. It's good, you know, because if we're... handling the affairs of today, you know, we can be out on the street or homeless or what have you, you know, we find ways to take care of our life and the life of today.

[27:49]

But we have implicitly, then we often have this idea, like if I stop my thoughts, If I quieted my mind, then something would be revealed. In other words, you know, if I behaved well, I would stay out of trouble and I would be congratulated and approved of for my excellent behavior and performance. And yes, you learned your lessons well. I don't know, but, you know, I'm... At some point, you know, I study a lot of different things. And one of the things I've studied is, you know, I fell in love with a book by a woman named Catherine McCown. It's called Unbecoming an Alchemist.

[28:50]

And she has a wonderful expression, which I think is, you know, her way of saying what, you know, because she says, you can spend a lot of time trying to listen to all these instructions and get them right. And which ones will you follow? And then driver's seat. Move to the driver's seat. You're the driver of your life. Sit in the driver's seat. And you have this mind of the great sage of India. You have this precious human life. And what will you do with your one wild and precious life? What will you do? beyond just fitting in, belonging, following the protocols, life and protocols.

[30:13]

And just one example of that is Years ago, I read in the Sun magazine, you know, that lovely magazine out of North Carolina. There's a section readers write in. And there was one on dieting. And most of the dieting letters were horror stories. Most of them were from women who had been shamed growing up and humiliated and berated and for their weight. Did that help them? No. They were taunted and teased and shamed and surely that will teach them a good lesson. But people have found that if you're shamed, then you head right for the ice cream or the peanut butter. You know, we have many ways to try to bring ourselves around to the proper behaviors, the correct ones.

[31:30]

outside authorities and how do you take your own authority and a woman wrote in at that time and said that she had studied dieting and she'd she wondered did anybody lose weight and keep it off and she found 12 or 15 people who had lost 25 pounds for five years or longer and she found out their secret they had one thing in common they'd each figured out for themselves how to lose weight And she tried to write a book about this. She wrote a book about this. It was turned down by publisher after publisher 11 New York publishers who said no wants to have to figure out things for themselves. Write a book telling people what to do. And there's a great market out there. I'm an I'm a sounds true out there and I'm on their mailing list and almost every day. There's one more. one more program that's going to tell you what to do.

[32:34]

So all this to say is, you know, think that thinking is a beginner's mind. What will you do? How will you do this? And, you know, is your meditation okay? Is it, is there, are you, or do you need to improve? And you know, that's another one is, of course, Suzuki Rishi's famous sayings, you're perfect, but there's room for improvement. So we, it's, it's very curious, you know, I think I'll finish up so we have time to talk.

[33:37]

You know, this is not as simple, you know, our life and, you know, doing what you're told, following the instructions. seeing if you can accomplish the instructions, and then finding out the instructions. You know, it's like, again, traditionally in Zen, we used to be told that, you know, the instructions for the Zendo are not because they're the right thing to do. It's so we have our hormones together while we practice sitting. bowing, facing the cushion, bowing away from the cushion, turn, sit down, turn and face the wall. And when you get up, you know, stand in shashu and enter a certain way, leave a certain way. It's not because it's spiritual or it's so we have a way to do things together.

[34:55]

And Suzuki Rishi emphasized, strictly speaking, there are no rules. And the best is that we give instruction one-on-one, one-to-one. And because we don't have time and because we're lazy, we give instructions to whole groups. so what we're learning finally is to trust you know trust your your own body mind which is connected with everything which is one with the mind of the great sage of india one with the sun and the earth and the sky and the plants and the animals and one with the great earth

[36:04]

with trees and stones and branches, fences. And when we sit, we're aiming to sit with everything. And there's, and then how would we, if we're sitting with everything or not, what would that look like? What would that look like? Was I sitting with everything today? How would I know? But we keep everything and listening to everything and we experience various things and we're shifting from, you know, how does that reflect on me to how do I connect or relate with that?

[37:07]

so we are finding our learning to trust our capacity to receive everything and respond to everything and sometimes we respond to everything and and people say don't do that you don't like that not here and other times people say thank you But this is to trust our own being, which is not just a human being, but, you know, you are a Buddha and you are an ordinary person. How can you be Buddha and an ordinary person? Don't worry about it. And you might think your practice is good. You might think your practice is bad.

[38:14]

Strictly speaking, your practice is your practice. Your practice is your practice, period. Cannot be assessed. Thought about. Determine how far you've gotten. Much in the Zen School. Higher, lower. In, out. honored, embarrassed. So thank you so much. Oh, how about a poem? I like ending with poems. Here's a Rumi poem. No, it's a William Stafford poem, a poem by William Stafford. William Stafford was good friends with Robert last year. And

[39:15]

quite a, you know, understated person. There's a lovely movie of him and Robert Bly made by a friend of mine, Hayden Reed. And Bly is so bombastic and, you know, how can I be close to you if I'm not sad? And Stafford is kind of quiet and calm. Taking all that in from Robert. Anyway, here's Stafford's poem. It's time for all the heroes to go home. If they have any. Time for all the heroes to go home. If they have any. Time for all of us common ones to locate ourselves by the real things we live by. For all of us common ones to locate ourselves by the real things we live by. Far to the north, or indeed in any direction, strange creatures have always lurked.

[40:22]

Elves, goblins, trolls, and spiders, we encountered them with dread and wonder. Once you've tasted the far stream, touched the gold, found some limit beyond the waterfall, a season changes, and you return, changed. but still quiet, grateful. Suppose an insane wind holds all the hills, while strange beliefs whine in the traveler's ears. Suppose it holds all the hills, and strange beliefs whine in the traveler's ears. We ordinary people can cling to the earth and love where we are, sturdy or common things.

[41:28]

Maybe we should change the lines. We ordinary people can sit sasen and enjoy our breath. Anyway, thank you. We have a few minutes at least to visit and maybe a few more. I saw two announcements. One said we'd go until 11.15, and the other one said 11. We have a few more minutes. If anyone has questions, comments, observations, reflections, let's hear from them. Thank you very much, Edward, for your wonderful talk. I will field questions from everyone while I'm at it. I'd like to answer them myself. the uh let's see if i can do this i can't spotlight myself the question i have is that uh the tension between sitting zazen and thinking non-thinking and the thank you and the um dhammapada begins to be aware of the unguarded mind

[42:36]

uh and that our thoughts lead us to x or y and without going into detail i wonder if you could address the i know one is sitting and one is not maybe but how would you address that tension that well uh it's all well and good um and it's uh accurate you know that our life problems are thinking So then you might think the thing to do is to and regulate the thoughts of others. That's what can't be done. You know, our thoughts appear. And so we're actually more, you know, noticing the the thought, and then what our response to the thought is and how we, you know, and that we actually have choice points where we buy into that thought, you know, because we can have the thought, I'm going to, this calls for, this calls for anger.

[43:56]

And we have that thought whether we notice it or not. But in order to get angry, you have to have the thought to get angry. Often we don't notice it. But we have a thought, I'm going to get angry. And then the next moment we go like, or the next moment we go like, as we say about, I'm sorry, just keep saying Suzuki Rishi, but, you know, I can just talk for myself too. But, you know, we should have a good relationship with monkey mind. So, and it's not that we get rid of monkey mind. Monkey mind could be seen as the mind of thinking. And So to have a good relationship, sometimes monkey says, hey, look, over there, there's some food. And then we say, oh, okay, monkey, let's get something to eat. And other times monkey might say, let's get angry. And it's like, monkey, it hasn't really helped in the past. Let's not go there. So we can't control our thinking.

[45:02]

What we can observe is And notice, and that's where in a certain sense, already thinking is when we're, but we're having a, we're in conversation or relationship with thinking rather than trying to oppress our own thinking and tell our thinking what not to think. And then who's doing that? And putting another head, putting a head over your head. which was Nyokun Senzaki's famous last words to his students. Don't put another head over your head. Keep your feet warm and your head cool. But it's a lovely question. It's a lovely thing to think about and responsive how think not thinking means. Or, you know, another one is in the Platform Sutra, at least one of the translations of the sixth patriarch ancestor.

[46:05]

You know, there's a pronoun, Coleman Barks is a pronoun in Farsi for we, they, and God. I want that one. Thank you. Anyway, I lost track of where I was going and too many things occurred to me. So thank you. Thank you very much. I'll bring in the next person with your question. Good afternoon, Kate. Good evening, almost, here in France. Good evening, okay. I really, I heard something like a theme that jumped out at me today, and I found quite exciting in a way. Not that there aren't any rules, but rather that there are so many live interpretations of any set of the rules. Yes, within practice, but, you know, I've expanded that out into, say, kind of all of life. And particularly even Master Dogen is kind of rewriting his progress.

[47:12]

I've never made him feel like a real kind of live and dynamic person. So thank you for that. Especially when you talked about embarrassment, you know, what one person, what other people might think of our practice, of our lives. And it had me reflect right in that moment. Wow, I have spent, wasted a lot of time trying to avoid embarrassment. at the perceived or worried idea about what others might think about my practice and my life. And yeah, I felt like I saw that in a fresh way today from listening and maybe hope that's a habit that I could drop, that I might be able to drop given that the rules are so open to interpretation at any moment. You're in the driver's seat. no one will give you your own authority gives you permission to be your own authority you're going to have to take you're going to have to assume your own authority and give yourself permission you know and then you're like oh my god it's up to me to be me and I can't just do it and follow the instructions here uh oh we're in trouble laughter laughter

[48:33]

Thank you. So this is why, you know, Zen master Dogen's teacher Ru Jing wrote a poem, you know, the great road has no gate. It begins in your own mind. The sky has no marked trails, yet it finds its way to your nostrils and becomes your breath. Somehow we meet like tricksters or bandits of the Dharma. You know, if you're going to be on your own authority, you could be in trouble. You know, as far as who's going to come down on me for this? And somehow, and you know, if you're, you know, Gandhi said, you suffer your truth. If you're willing to suffer your truth, then okay, that's good, you know. If you're not willing to suffer it, how true is it?

[49:34]

Anyway, excuse me. Thank you so much for coming on. And wonderful to hear this opening in a new world. Thank you, Kate. Thank you, Kate. Now we'll have a... Please go ahead, Ross. Just a comment. Hey, Ed. Thank you for offering the alternative... Introduction I had to pick and choose and that really filled out your picture of who who you are I don't have a question so much as a comment talk you invited us to Feel the ground and connect to you up in in Philo and it reminded me last week. I was in a conversation with a friend and There was a disconnect in myself I could feel the pain and anguish and such in me certainly and I and she was demonstrating that as well and for the breathing practice that I was doing I felt still felt connected to her but in your request this morning and connect to the land is something that I could have done that day

[50:59]

in some way to reach out to her to connect and help with that relationship. In other words, I felt fine connected in the dissonance still, but I'm not sure if she felt the same way. And in the future, I'm going to try to do that practice that you suggested. And I'll let you know how it goes. Yeah, and you can always dream up other ones that are just as suitable. Okay. Thank you, friend. Thank you, Ross. Actually, we have a question in our chat, Edward, which says, how can we offer criticism without also offering shame? A wonderful question. And some of us, of course, feel shamed rather easily. So no matter how skillful the other person is, when we hear some kind of criticism or adjustment, possible way to body speech or mind, according to the outside, what's outside there, you know, no matter how skillful it is, some of us can still feel, go right into shame.

[52:27]

The classic sensibility is to, and this comes up with child rearing too, which most of us grew up in an era when people were into shaming. So we say, don't do that and shame on you. We literally say shame on you as change behavior. And the classic sensibility understanding. First of all, Zen Master Dogen says simply express yourself fully without trying to defeat the other person. So that's to say you, you honor the person you're, you are a beautiful soul, you have a one you have, you're such a good hearted person. And I want you to know that that behavior didn't work so well for me. So, and I forget this.

[53:32]

I don't know what to say. I get caught up in conversations. So it's an ongoing study. How do we honor someone being a good-hearted human being? And so it's making that distinction between you're perfect the way you are and there's some things you could work on there's some things you do. And of course, the Western world is confused. You know, we've all grown up with this confusion of no, no, no, no, my behavior is about me. And then if me, then we can be shamed no matter how skillful someone is, because we right away understand that behavior refers to me, it's not just my behavior. Oh, no. And then if we're And then the problem with shame is you believe that there's something implicitly inherent. In other words, you believe you do not have the mind of the great sage of India.

[54:36]

And you need to fix your behavior more and more perfectly in order to finally become an okay human being. And it can't be done. You can't perform well enough to... you can never do your behavior well enough to improve your being because behavior is not that's, that's something that's behavior. And then there's your being. And ultimately, you know, we're aiming to have or hoping or not even aiming, but when the Enlightenment lottery, we realized that the basic nature of reality, there's no shame, there's no shame to self. Dugan calls it hitting the mark. He said, when you hit the mark, you realize hitting the mark is to realize you're on the spot without changing anything about your body or your mind. Okay. Thank you.

[55:40]

Thank you. Wonderful question. Very important to think about that and to understand. Thank you, Ed. Thank you, questioner. We have a question from Hozan, and we're going to take these three questions and... as soon as we can so hosan please go ahead good morning really enjoying it um so a conundrum hosan could you adjust your volume perhaps upward hang on what am i doing here is this no yes no let's see how about this better still no One minute more. I'm really sorry. How about this? Yes? No? No. I'll pass then. I'll just pass. Okay. Thank you. We're going to call on Raghav. Please, Raghav, go right ahead. Good morning, Raghav. Good morning, Edward.

[56:41]

Nice to hear you talk. As you were talking, you know, something that came to my mind was what I remember of regarding the precepts. It's not something that comes from outside, but is your inmost request. And I've thought about it as why is it the inmost request? And the key thing for me in terms of like, I have, I have, thinking around this. Maybe I'll put it out and then we'll see where it goes. But I feel it's individual in the sense it's not about me. It's more about humanity itself. You know, we say that Buddha is in the 10 directions three times, which I understand as past, present and future like that.

[57:50]

The cycle of humanity keeps going round and round and round. And we are born each moment and we die in the sense humans are dying and being born every moment. And is that is that what that means, which is the cycle keeps going and we meant as another baby. And maybe we want to inherit a better world. In some way. Maybe a little bit better. Humanity will always be making mistakes, but maybe this line of teaching from the great sage of India, from the great sage of India, to show that there is another way. It's a very important question. And I'm reminded of many things as you talk. Most recently, I did a talk on, or I wrote a little piece on Suzuki Rishi's expression that, you know, when you practice Buddhism, you know, and he said, when you practice Buddhism, you should be connecting with your inner life.

[59:18]

And if you're not connecting with your inner life, find something that connects you with your inner life. So that's something that what's your, you know, your inner life. And I asked him, I said, I don't know if that's happening or not. What do I do? And he said, keep sitting. But we more and more connect with. Ideally, hopefully we connect with our inner life and. as I was saying at the end of my talk, we learn to trust our inner life. You know, and when the Tibetans often have taught, and they, I hear it less now, but, you know, treat everybody as your mother, because she nourished you and fed you and clothed you, piped you, and Westerners, they had no idea that, and Westerners would say, are you kidding my mom? but that spirit that feeling you know you and then somebody would say well everybody could have been you say the way you treat everybody as your mother because they could have been your mother and in a past life why don't you treat everybody as your murderer because they could have been your murderer in a past life and they said no when it's you're treating them as the mother that's she herself that's that's from her heart the murder is

[60:50]

afflicted and under the captivated by something that is not, you know, not there from their own being, so to speak, not their inmost being. So, yeah, we keep studying and, and that's where the, the precepts come in. And as I was saying, you know, when you, when we do something, you know, personally, it doesn't help me much. And people say, you're breaking your precepts. Like, excuse me. But. know sometimes but if they say you know you you did this or this oh okay yeah i see yeah that was not uh an expression of my inner inmost nature but in accord with my good heart i understood i'll see what i can do no guarantees but thank you so much for your question thank you thank you ragoff we'll go ahead with laurie for our last question okay laurie good good morning hi What a great painting behind you or whatever that is.

[61:55]

It's a little piece of cloth behind me. Oh, God. A feeling of fabric. Yeah. Yeah. I partly kind of just wanted to say, flow some energy there, say hi. And during your talk, there's thinking, think not thinking, and then there's feelings. Feelings are a lot of what's happening. i've noticed possibly even as much or more than thinking i mean is there any kind of feel not feeling quite hit the mark for me but i wondered if you just wanted to say a few words about feelings well um yeah thank you so much um i have um you know we're different kinds of people kind of person one aspect of that is you know much as i tried to get rid of feelings that were afflictive and painful they don't go anywhere um and um and then you get into the business of who's telling who to be what yes why would you do anyway um uh in again in the western world and we live in this culture where we've been

[63:21]

over and over again, don't be scared, don't be sad. You know, don't be this, don't be that. And so it's to have our feelings. And I at some point began more and more consciously rather than trying to get rid of the feelings, to feel what you feel, to know what you feel when you feel it and be able to articulate it such a way that others don't go running out of the room or, you know, gingerly back away, keeping their eye on you. So, and you can do that with anger and fear and, you know, and not attacking somebody or not emoting your feelings, expressing them by, you know, having them and owning them. And that seems in our world so rare to meet people who are in that same, business as me, in that sense.

[64:24]

So and this is related to there's no much a lot of literature, Carla McLaren and emotional and, you know, Dan Goldman, emotional intelligence, Carla McLaren, the, you know, chemistry of emotion or whatever it was. And there's books by a woman named Linda Cohen off who, and many people now say emotion is is information. and that we are informed by feeling, and it's not something, but in the West, we have this idea like, no, we want thought to be in charge, you know, here, thought is in charge, and thought, and it's a misnomer, because we've never been in charge. And we don't do what our thought tells us to do. After we do something, there's a spin doctor that says, that was good, that was bad. What were you thinking? And why did you do that? And congratulations, and that was not bad.

[65:25]

And so our thinking kind of takes over after we've already done something. And we can't do anything. Just like realization is not like you expected. Even if you think so, that's not true. And it doesn't take place according to your conception and our life isn't. And so we, the feelings, you know, many people have talked about this and there's now whole schools of, you know, how intelligent it is and feelings are more associated in that sense with your gut brain than your head brain. And you, and of course you want them to be on the same page, but you can make, and you can make mistakes either way. and doing what you should and getting yourself in all kinds of trouble because of that. Or, you know, because you should do what the man says. And you shouldn't, you know, get angry.

[66:27]

So, oh, you should let yourself if you want to be loved. And so it's very confusing, you know, to follow your head. And then there's following your feelings. And then you... You own your feelings and, you know, stop that. And then you say, stop that when you are unhappy with something. Or you say, please, don't do that. So it's a whole world that invites us to stand up for ourselves, stand our ground, and speak our truth. And a lot of that comes from emotional intelligence and our gut brain or second chakra or horror. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much. So before we stop, please invite your ground back from here to the ground where you are and have connect to the ground around you.

[67:31]

And have it invite your space back. If you invited your space here, invite your space back. where you are and connect to the space around you and your space and ground are with you all the time, the more you're aware of that, practicing that, then the more reality there is to that. So thank you so much. Do we do a chant now to end there?

[68:03]

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