First, I'd like to offer up my gratitude to Jerry Oliva, Judy Fleischman, and Mary Duryea for teaching the class on the Sandokai during this aspects period, and also offer up gratitude to Linda Roshi and Greg Roshi for allowing me to speak here. to any new folks my name is Gary Artem and I'm my my Dharma name is Enzon Jatoku which translates to round mountain clear genuine and I've been practicing here for close to 30 years give or take some and I'm still a beginner so don't feel if you're new Is there anyone new here?

[01:04]

Oh, yeah. Welcome. And don't be afraid to ask questions if we have a Q&A after the talk. What was I going to say there? Yeah, welcome. Another thing about BCC or Berklee Zen Center that I really liked or like is that five years ago I was diagnosed with cancer in the back of my throat, and when I came back after treatment, I felt I was not seen as a cancer patient, which I feel really grateful for that. I just picked up where I had left off. Although I wasn't the same person, it was a great It's a great attribute to do something like that, not to see a person as their illness.

[02:07]

So, I'm going to let this talk do the talk. Because, you know, I get real nervous about doing talks. And so this is, you can blame the talk and not me. The one thing that helped me in doing the talk is Branching Streams Flow On in the Dark, Suzuki Roshi's commentary on the talk. And the cool thing about this is it's not just... There's more than just talking about the Sandokai in it. There's a lot of Dharma in it. And I almost view it as a companion to the Zen mind, beginner's mind. Really, very good book. There's a pitch. And I also want to say, the students of Aspects, forgive me, because I'm going to repeat a lot of stuff that you've heard a lot.

[03:18]

The other day I was sitting over there in the corner where Bodhidharma is, or where James is sitting, and as I was sitting, I kept hearing this buzzing, and I thought, oh no, there's... There must be another device in the zendo. And then I noticed that as I stopped breathing, the buzzing stopped. So it ended up, it was in my nose that the buzzing was coming from. And I just thought it was a nice antidote to how often we find our problems aren't out there. They're in here. Or maybe in your nose. Okay, well. So I'll let the talk do the talk. I'm going to do a commentary on the Sandokai, and I have a little handout that Vajisha's going to... Here, I'll open this for you.

[04:25]

There you go. Thank you. And while we pass that out, I'd like to say that the title of the chant, San Do Kai, San means many, and Do means one, or San being the relative, and Do being emptiness, or... or oneness, and kai means the merging of the two or the friendship of the two. I've heard it expressed that way and also like warm hand to warm hand is another expression of a kai.

[05:34]

So san, do, kai. And the other thing about this picture When I was working on the talk, I would put this up, and it was really kind of heartwarming to have an image of the teacher. Underneath it, I have that he was the eighth patriarch of Soto Zen lineage. He lived from 700 to 790. Sando Kai is a response to the fighting between Zen schools. And as a youth, he was a student of the sixth ancestor. And the sixth ancestor said to him, if you practice with me, you will start looking ugly like me. And Sekito just smiled. I don't know where I found that quote.

[06:35]

I was looking in the book to see if it was in Sudoku Hiroshi's book, but I found that somewhere. And then after... Hunen died, the six ancestor died while he was just, you know, Sekito was with him, or was being taught by him when he was just a child. And then he died, and then Sekito went off and sat by himself for 15 years until he took up another teacher. So, you know, I don't want to jump ahead, but I thought of something there. Anyway. So that's just some historical information. And then on the other side is the chant itself. So, you know, that's kind of like a little present. Don't say I never gave you anything. Okay, so... I also thought it was... It dawned on me it's really appropriate that he wrote this...

[07:40]

rebuttal to what was going on between the different sects, because the line of the lineage was a straight line until we hit the sixth ancestor, I think that's right, and then it branches off into various Rinzai and Soto Zen, so I thought it's pretty cool that he is the one that wrote this rebuttal, or wrote this chant. I'm trying not to read so much, but I have to read a lot in this talk. The next talk I'm going to try and not read at all. So when I was working on this talk, I asked myself, is it any good? Is it too slow? Not enough. Examples? Covering too much ground? I don't know. You let me know. Let it wash over you. I recently returned from an amazing trip to Iceland and Norway.

[08:44]

We went swimming in two of their geothermal pools, and they're 50 meters long, which is like double of most pools in the US. And as you're swimming, you know, because it's geothermal heated, there's a fog over top the pool, so you can't see anybody, and you can't see the end of the pool. Kind of like this talk. I don't know where it's going to go, but... You know, anyway. So, you know, to try and get a... To try and swallow this chant, I thought, well, I'll do what I've done in other talks. I'll make a little outline and then work from that. And so I did a little outline in looking at different aspects of the chant, and I broke it down into four areas.

[09:51]

So first he kind of shows you what's not needed to access the truth or dharma. He does other things in the first part, but I'll explain those. But he kind of is talking about what you don't need to access Dharma or the truth. Then he explains the sense doors and their power. And then he wades neck deep into the absolute and the relative. And there's kind of a blend there. There's some parts of it that kind of... blend the absolute and the relative and the sense doors. And he closes how neatly the relative and the absolute merge, and then points you to practice and not to delay. So those are kind of the four areas of the chant that I picked out to help you get a feel for it.

[11:00]

Yeah, I'm not an expert in it. I'm just trying to help. And also you can take the chant home and read it before bed or something. Anyway, quote, The mind of the great sage of India is intimately transmitted from west to east. While human faculties are sharp or dull, the way has no northern or southern ancestors. The spiritual source shines clear in the light. The branching streams flow on in the dark. Grasping at things is surely delusion. According with sameness is still not enlightenment. So here, end quote. So here I wrote, The mind is transmitted from Shakyamuni in India to Bodhidharma in China.

[12:03]

And they use mind here, so mind means more than just intellect. It means some sort of transmission, I think. And then he goes on to say, Intellect is not necessary to becoming enlightened. And it could be a hindrance, or maybe not. And he's saying, don't argue or pick and choose which line of Zen is better. Just practice sitting. Feel it in your bones. You don't need to be quick-witted or dull. It doesn't matter. So with your eyes open in the light it becomes clear, yet it never ceases even in the dark of night. Here Sukkito is using light as the absolute reality, or oneness, and darkness as the relative.

[13:13]

Finally he says, clinging to relative and the absolute is still not it. Is it both or neither? I ask. That's a question for you. I think of the image, the Zen image that often is used where a student is walking with a board on his shoulder that's, you know, above his head, as wide as his head, and so he's only seeing one side of it. He's saying not to do that. to open to both sides. So, quote, all the objects of the senses interact yet do not. Interacting brings involvement, otherwise each keeps its place. Sights vary in quality and form.

[14:23]

Sounds differ as pleasing or harsh. Refined and common speech come together in the dark. Clear and murky phrases are distinguished in the light." I think he's saying, our senses are doors to thoughts, feelings, sensations, but if you don't get, if you don't indulge in them, they're harmless, they'll keep their place. seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, tasting, and the mind, which is Buddhism's sixth sense, Sojin would probably say, don't get caught by anything. So there are likes and dislikes, you can have these, yet in their differences the equality of uniqueness comes forward, all things being equally different. That's kind of a convoluted statement.

[15:28]

But it's just, it's basically saying, I'm just basically saying that in your uniqueness, there's an equalness. I think he's getting at. So I say here, I'd like to say a little bit about the absolute, or darkness, and the relative light. He switches sometimes in the chant. using light as the absolute and darkness as the relative. But it's typical in Japanese culture, I think, darkness is generally the absolute. Anyway, in the relative, we are aware of living in a world where exchange value is so prominent. This is worth so much, and that is worth so little. Seems all the fighting wars are about or follow this repeated pattern of us versus them, good versus bad, right versus wrong.

[16:42]

The relative divides things up into this and that, not unlike what I'm doing in this talk. The absolute is trickier to write about, I can try, but I always fall short. Big mind is often used name for it, as well as emptiness. Not in the usual definition of emptiness, but meaning absolute fullness of everything. I'm floundering because it's inexpressible, maybe like infinity. How do you explain something with no end? but all come together in the absolute, no dividing. You could look at Iceland as a metaphor of the absolute convergence of tectonic plates moving at creating heated thermal pools, wide open barren land, volcanoes, massive movements that

[17:53]

doesn't end, an instability within the background of beauty and oneness. So in the dark, all merge into oneness or emptiness. In the light, we see the differences. Here he expressed the dark as absolute and the light. I'm kind of repeating myself there. So the next part, quote, The four elements return to their nature just as a child turns to its mother. Fire heats, wind moves, water wets, earth is solid, eye and sight, ear and sound, nose and smells, tongue and taste. Thus, with each and every thing, depending on these roots, the leaves spread forth. Trunk and branches share the essence. Revered and common, each keeps its speech. So it's not something esoteric, it's something as natural as a baby turning to her mother.

[19:03]

The four elements, fire, water, earth and wind, return to their nature just as a child turns to its mother. Here we're seeing mother as emptiness, the mother of all elements and spirits. Four elements are both dependent and independent and interdependent. We went to the beaches along the coast of Norway. We were there to see if there were any surfers. One of my deluded ideas is to teach this body how to surf. Burnt Eric insisted we do a drive and stop at various points. There were no surfers. The wind was clocking at 35 miles an hour. I've never been in a wind of that speed, but I didn't fight it.

[20:08]

As Mary says, don't push the river when kayaking. So the relative and the absolute are equal and contain each other. Each has its merit. I also think that bowing is kind of like a good expression of this teaching. The forms are there, the ga sho, and you bow a certain way, and you hit the mat, and then when you come down, you... you... you let down your burden, or let go of your burden, and lift up Buddha's feet. So it's a complete, you know, it's nice for after the bodhisattva ceremony, but it's kind of a complete act of what Sekito is getting at. So I quote, in the light there is darkness, but don't take it as darkness.

[21:16]

In the dark there is light, but don't see it as light. Light and darkness oppose one another like front and back foot in walking. So I think light or form contains the darkness is where he's going with this. And darkness or emptiness or oneness contains the light form. It's the Heart Sutra. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Sugiroshi said, we say, you cannot catch a fish in the same place twice. Today you were fortunate to catch a big fish at a certain place, but tomorrow you should fish in some other place. So I think he's saying, You can't package it. You just have to flow with it, let it happen.

[22:21]

Both the relative and the absolute are what you seek and each contain the other. That's something I'm saying. Now, how can the front and back foot oppose each other? Two feet walking, opposing one another, yet moving forward. There's a tension between the relative and the absolute. I think that's what he's getting at. Quote, each of a myriad things has its merit expressed according to function and place. In the absolute differences, uniqueness comes out. and we find absolute equality, wise and fools are both relative, though each has equal absolute value.

[23:26]

You know, Kashyapa holding up a flower is a way that each of the myriad things has its merit expressed according to function and place. He holds up the flower and that was enough for Buddha to acknowledge his understanding. When I was in Norway I insisted on going fishing, so one of the women of our adopted family, Yoron, took me to a cabin near a lake that I had fished at the last time I visited. It was a blustery day with a light rain. Yoran was worried about me walking on the highway to get to the lake. Emily and Yoran took off hiking and I found a spot that looked good for trout. Burnt Eric, by the way, had netted a huge amount of trout the day before, so I thought, well, I'm going to get some trout for sure.

[24:40]

I'll catch something. I fell slightly, getting down to the water's edge and started casting my lure out 10, 20 times, not a single nibble. I trudged back to the cabin. There's not much, if any, dharma in this story, but I felt I should tell it. Being there was more important than catching anything. I remember as a child wandering the neighborhood and finding wonderful, simple things like stones and turtles, snakes, etc., and bringing them home. It felt like magic. So I quote, Phenomena exists, box and lid fit, principles responds, arrow points meet.

[25:41]

I think he's just pointing again, the relative and the absolute join perfectly. But then they oppose each other in front and back foot and walking. So he doesn't let you get stuck in one idea. I think that's part of it. Quote, hearing the words, understand the meaning, don't set up standards of your own. If you don't understand the way right before you, how will you know the path as you walk? Progress is not a matter of far or near, but if you are confused, mountains and rivers block your way. There's no trickery, he's saying. Follow the well-defined path. Look where you are. It's right there under your feet. Don't get... Don't stick to the words.

[26:44]

You know, in the class, we kind of got stuck on this, don't set up standards, standards of your own. And I felt that it was, don't drop your ego and just follow. And you know, the Dogen's fascicle, Zuimoki, he quotes an ancestor saying, empty inside, go along outside. Can't be more simpler. And he writes, or says, this means leaving, this means being without egocentricity. an egocentric mind inside, getting along with others outside. Now, I remember as a session director, standing in the courtyard and various people coming to me saying, I can't do this, I want to do that, I can't do this, I can't do that, and I remember getting so upset, like, if one more person comes, I'm going to bob him on the head,

[28:09]

And then I just freaked out and said, I'm going to do whatever they ask me to do. And I think that's an example of, not that I'm so great, but you just got to do what you're asked to do when you're practicing. Quote, I respectfully urge you to study the mystery. Do not pass your days and nights in vain. I think he's saying don't waste time. Practice now. Time is relative. Long time can be short and a short time can be long. Just don't cling to the idea of time. In summary, practice enlightenment occurs where you are in each moment and is not dependent on what sect of Buddhism you adhere to. He further is showing us how absolute and relative contain each other and that all things have an absolute value.

[29:17]

Last, not to get discouraged by relative time frames. Maybe see yourself, your practice as having arrived and start from there. Shohaku Okamura has a nice passage that fits really nicely with this. He says, just sitting is itself a merging of difference and unity. With this body and mind, we sit both individually and universally. Simply keep your body straight, breathe quietly, and let go of thought. This is our Zazen based on Dogen's teaching. With this zazen, individuality is not lost. My sitting is mine alone, and yet this sitting we let go of thought, which means to let go of our egocentricity.

[30:21]

Practice is my personal practice, which manifests the universal reality of life. In zazen, we completely express difference and unity, individuality and universality. So now I ask myself, is this talk any good or not? I'm leaning on the relative, but absolutely it's a talk, not good or not bad. My rumination on the talk is just an example of being caught in the relative loop. Now that it's kind of over, I can stop and bask in the absolute, but not stay there. How do we go forward from this chant? I always fall back on what Sojin said to me in Doka-san when asked, what is the most important teaching in Buddhism?

[31:24]

He said, impermanence, no abiding self, and non-clinging. Sekito would maybe add, follow the path underneath your feet, and there is no one path. So that's, I think that's all I have. Yup. Thank you. Are we okay to take questions and answers? today? Question or discussion? Oh yes, I can't see you. Is that, oh hi, how are you?

[32:27]

It's Mira. Hi, Mira. Back here. Yes, moving around today. So the part where you were talking about the foot in front and the foot behind, and then being in opposition, and what came up for me is they're not in opposition. They're in harmony. Because you have to have your foot in front to walk. and then your foot behind goes in forward. So they're harmonizing so you can walk. If they opposed each other, you would do the splits. You have to call Secato up on that. Because he wrote it, not me. He wrote they were in opposition? Yes. Oh, I thought you said that. No, no. I think they're... They're working in unison when you move. They might be different when you're not moving, but when you're moving... Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.

[33:32]

When you're moving, that's how you walk. What's the line again? Can you find the line again about the opposition? Let me find the line. I mean, is that like saying there's up and there's down, maybe? That's a good question. Well, I don't think they do oppose each other then, because light and darkness are one. I struggled with it, too. I did. I think it is a difficult thing, and anybody could share. Go ahead, Sue. Oh, yes. I always struggle with... I don't read the Sendokai much, and I really admire people who love it, and thank you for the talk.

[34:32]

And you're bringing that point up. I just read that line. It's like, that's the point. They're not in opposition. Maybe that's his point. It's like, oh, great. Is that okay, Jim? You understand this. Oh, okay. And I just think bringing up fishing in Norway was the best. Hold on, Blake. I got one online. I'll let one online go. Okay, go ahead. I can't see who it is. Hi. Hi. Hi there, Gary. Thank you for your talk. Sure. What's your name? Could you say your name? It's Denise. It's Denise. Oh, Denise, yeah. You look a little different. I look like I've combed my hair. Hi. Thank you for your talk.

[35:32]

I'd like to just... Is someone else talking? No. Oh, I hear an echo of my own voice. You're on. It's an echo of my voice. Well, as a citizen and generally against war, I've been following the Ukraine war. And they know if they stop, the violence is worse that they will experience and that they will lose their sovereignty. And Marshall Rosenberg talked about the protective use of force. which is to prevent harm. It's like harm reduction or to do anything to prevent harm. So would you choose to live under Russian occupation, which is extremely violent and involves a lot of harms I don't want to bring up in your consciousness right now? Or would you defend your sovereignty?

[36:33]

What would I do in that case? Yeah, my talk was aimed at practice and not dealing with war. Oh, there was something mentioned about war and it seemed a little overly simplistic. It's just like, here's the thing, we don't believe in gerrymandering, but we do believe in this instance to gerrymander to protect our nation. So this is where, if we think too much about, and we don't go to the heart of the situation, we can lose the matter that is really important. So I just think that, I believe that you would, like I would, defend my sovereignty and protect my nation from invaders. I wouldn't let the Russians build a tunnel from Russia to Alaska.

[37:39]

so that they have a better option to enter our land. Anyway, I'm just speaking from my own. And see, this is where I think this thinking about past texts can really run kind of too far into thinking and not into the heart of the matter at point. Like you can be, oh, is it the left foot or the right foot that's opposing? And it's, what is important in this moment? How are you living in this moment in terms of basically, you know, I'm bringing up a most important thing that's going on in the world practically. Many important things. Excuse me. Let me correct that. But this is a really, this decision about will we protect our sovereignty, whether it's through gerrymandering or through fighting in some way. Well, I think you have a good argument, but, you know, I think what I said isn't really wrong, or doesn't not work, I should say, not right or wrong, but not work in that, you know, they're fighting because of relative things.

[38:54]

And this is mostly, the talk is mostly about practice, and maybe I shouldn't have used war in that. expression that I tried to get across. And thanks for pointing that out. Well, it's, and I think there are examples, of course, we should have gotten involved in. Sorry. Okay. All right. Thank you for your talk. Thank you. Yes. Any other? Oh, yeah. Oh, go ahead. Blake was first, I think. Thank you for your talk. Sure. We'll deal with the echo online as soon as we can. So I believe you said that when people came to you in your session, director or work leader, that you were just like, yes, okay, you can do that. And my attitude was like, no, you're going to do this and you should just get with that program.

[39:57]

Could you open that up a little bit? And say, like, repeat the story maybe and open it up a little bit? Sure. I thought about what I was going to say around that and that I was a little, maybe I'm a little too soft and I bend to people's needs and stuff like that. And, you know, sometimes people have really legitimate needs. like their back, it's going to throw their back out to rake or something like that. And it was more in response to that that I was, well, there are folks that just won't do certain things. They absolutely say no. And how do I deal with that? I have to, like, I had to embrace them somehow.

[40:58]

A guy came in once, and he was, we were in the middle of a seshin like this, and he was, he wanted to come in the zendo, and the person standing outside said, you can't go in, this is a private, and he started ranting and raving, and I heard all this, and I went out, and I just said to him, I'm sorry, I'm sorry that... we can't let you in right now, or maybe... It wasn't exactly like I'm saying, but there are times when people come and they're just... He was saying, you're a racist group, and he was yelling all kinds of things. So he went way off on us not allowing him to come in. And I just had to apologize to him, and that was enough. He stopped... ranting and raving, and he took off and left, and that was it. Now, whether we should have let him in or not is another question, but, you know, sometimes there's no choice.

[42:04]

You have to, like, say, I'm sorry. You know? Does that help at all? It sure does. Thank you. Okay. Good question. Good question. Hi, thanks for your talk and It's so nice to dive into the Sandokai I kind of wanted to respond to Denise a little bit to the what to Denise online. Oh, okay Because I don't think I don't think there's anything the Sandokai doesn't apply to and I I think that the whole point the whole point if there's one is it's about it's about the way and it's about principle and not to set up standards of your own phenomena exist principle responds it reminds me of something else I read about about mind and that when

[43:24]

conditions arise, mind responds, and when conditions cease, it stops. So I think, in fact, the point is, if you want to try to relate it to a dire situation where you have to decide whether or not to defend your sovereignty, is exactly not to cling to some sort of rule about, well, I will be pacifist no matter what. I absolutely cannot, you know, because of this rule. It's not about the rule. It's just about responding to phenomena that arises because it's always going to be complicated and different. And so this is to free you, or free not you, from thinking of standards and laws and what you have to do because of something somebody said, and instead recognizing what is the... the path right before you right now. Thank you. You want to finish the lecture here? You know, I want to say something about Denise, is that I remember Denise from way back, and she always found cracks in our truth, or our dharma.

[44:38]

And I appreciate her, that she has come forward and asked things. Anyway. I have another question online from Kabir. Somehow it's not on... What do you call it? Oh, there it is. Never mind. Okay, go ahead. Hi, Gary. Oh, hi. Hi, everybody. I definitely miss coming to Zendo and... Kabir, can you say your name? Oh, Kabir. What Kabir? The poet could be here. We spent the summer of September in Tassajara, studying this amazing home. And I, at first I was very resistant. But the more I read it, it's really pointing to turning your life inward. And I had a moment that I, the moment where I realized that

[45:43]

the most important relationship in my life is the relationship between the self and my ego, or we got to call it monos. And that part of what extension of my mind, which we call the ego, it has developed since maybe age five. So the last 50 years, this state of mind that I call the ego exists within my psyche. Yes, there's one mind, all that good stuff, But this part of us that we deal with every day, how is that relationship developed? How is, how's it going? Because a lot of times, you know, we want to smash our ego and we want to put it on a corner. We're ashamed of it. We don't want to have anything to do with it. But in reality, that is your, that is the Batman and Robin. That is your Robin. That is your lover. That is, it's there. And we have to live with it inside our mind, inside our life. So that was one. Going back to your reference regarding war to this poem, I came from a war-torn country, as you know, Afghanistan.

[46:52]

And a lot of times wars happen, and it happened in Afghanistan right in front of me because the outside country tried to set up standards of their own, trying to come inside and change things around and change Afghanistan and do this and that. When, of course, the people stood up And 45 years later, we're still at war. So I think not setting up our own standards for me, it means that just leave things as they are, show up as you are. And Suzuki Roshi always said everything and everything belongs to everybody. And all we need to do is to take care of it. We don't own anything. We just show up, do the best we can. And that's it. So that is my lecture. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead. Dan Jackson over there.

[47:54]

Thinking about what Denise said, and looking at this, when I look in this poem, I don't, someone could maybe find a counterexample. I don't see that he's urging us to make good choices. He's urging us to sort of see the way things are. And I think most of the people who are involved in the war in Ukraine don't have a whole lot of choice about their particular situation and what they're doing. Many of the people fighting on the Ukrainian side have been drafted. They don't have a choice. It's the same many of the people on the Russian side don't have a choice. They've been sent there. And in life, you often don't get a choice. It's more about responding appropriately to what is happening. That may be your choice, but a lot of this is more about seeing it for what it is and responding to it and going with it.

[49:01]

But I don't think that we may have as much choice as she was implying. Yeah, well I think I think you're right. It doesn't specifically say that, but I think the branching streams is kind of a metaphor for what's presented to us, what's in our face, basically, what shows up. And you're right. Sometimes there's no choice around the stream. You've got to wade through it or you've got to swim. with it, you know, whatever, something like that. But he does say it's recognized path. Yeah. Thank you, Dan. Last question. OK, I think we have to close.

[50:04]

Is there one more? We could squeeze one more in if we. Thanks. Go ahead. Yeah, hi, Marlee. Hi, Marlee here. Just wanted to ask you, since we've spent so much time talking about it, in your own words, could you talk about what relative and absolute are? In my own words? Cause and effect is relative, you know, that things happen And you have to make choices. It's the day-to-day world is the relative. And the absolute is something. That's it. Well, thank you.

[51:07]

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