Problems, Prospects

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good morning everyone
i'm sorry my altar is not accessible i've tried to make this the screen just kind of funky screen as a as a neutral background palm so don't have to get up into to crawl around it
sojourn roshi was scheduled to be the speaker ah this morning and i got a call late in the evening yesterday
asking me to keep the talk because he wasn't feeling well and hadn't been feeling well all day yesterday so on
i will give their talk talking and tell you a bit about ah what will be going on what has been going on here at berkeley's and center and leaving good time for questions and answers but i thought i would start with
up a piece of the talk that suzuki roshi gave
in august of ah
nineteen seventy one in late august of nineteen seventy one so on
what does that forty nine years ago
hum and at that point
you know he was a
four months or so or a little less three month three four months from ah from his passing and so he was
certainly experiencing his illness
ah but he was also full of life ah as you can read the transcript i've i've entered out edited out the places where ah it says laughs are laughing but ah that there was a lot of that interjected in the in the talk
so i'm
this is one of the lectures on the sand okay i believe but i'm i've just accepted it
someone someone falls to earth someone falls on the earth maybe by stumbling over a stone
somebody someone who falls on the earth maybe by stumbling on of stone will stand up by the same earth
because of the earth you stumble and fall
earth is the problem you think
because the problem you may get hurt
and because of the earth you can support yourself again and can stand up
so you complain because you think it is the earth and the stones fault that you've fallen
without the earth you will not fall
and without the earth you cannot stand up
falling and standing up our gift given to you by the earth
so a problem itself is your mother
because of mother earth you can continue your practice
the problems are actually your zendo
oh maybe the problems on your resume
ha problems are actually your zendo that is very true
so what is delusion
and what is enlightenment
when you are deluded about the earth's to nature
that is delusion
when you're enlightened about the earth that is enlightenment
by the earth
that is enlightenment
when you fall and you blame the earth
that is delusion
so we have a chance to attain a great enlightenment
when we have a problem
how our way is not to get rid of all the stones on earth which could be stumbling stones for you
it is good to have many stones on the earth which could be stumbling stones
when you stand up
if you have a big stone near it may be easier to stand up
it's very good for your practice tab big stones everywhere
no problem we have we have plenty of those hum
here for instance is a stone i meant to bring the song but of course they've forgotten ah if you understand it that is you know enlightenment
if you don't understand it then you could have a painful fall
so if there are not many stones to help your practice
we may have to bring many stones from tassajara to the xander
fortunately we actually don't have to worry about that because we all have ah stones in our in our path ah pan to actually
what we need to do is to pay attention
how look where you're stepping
to be mindful
so this might have enlightenment in
the token centuries faster goal got godot you didn't you
he talks about the mind of enlightenment which is also conventionally and in ah in sanskrit known as bodhicitta
and dogan says the mind of enlightenment
he's the mind that season to the nature of impermanence

so we're in a time
often impermanence a time of many stones
when it's relieved
it's just one difficulties once stone to stumble on after another
and you're right now i don't have to enumerate them for you because we're all we're all living them
hair and top it's a good thing that we're paying attention because these were many of them were not stones that we saw her coming
yeah so if we're looking you know towards the horizon or towards the goal then probably we're going to stumble
but really are practice the practice of zazen is too
instruct us in how to pay attention
step by step stone by stone
breath by breath
so we also we have many problems many stones which are also many opportunities
but these are not all opportunities that we
certainly not opportunities that we asked for or wanted
greet with joy perhaps harm
can't i think that one of the situations which we haven't spoken to ah
he's really it's the circumstance of this talk
you know it's the circumstance of our teachers illness
which has been unfolding for
hum now thirteen months
from last september when we were at
casa heroin ah he was working on dharma transmission send ah
had an episode that was diagnosed as ah beginnings of a bile duct cancer
and so that was fully diagnosed ah
they begin and they had an intervention they had began with with treatment and now here we are
ah thirteen months later
and it's not an entirely clear that though
the discomfort that sojourn roshi is experiencing is ah an artifact of the treatment or an artifact of the illness but the fact is that ah the nature of impermanence is unfolding
i i think all of us her
we not welcome that as a gift
it's actually or practice is to figure out
how to
how to included how to fold it into our saas in in our life so that
it can
service and serve authentic pigs and i know
that this is what first saw this is what sodium she has tried to do for himself
and it is what he wants for us
and i i know that he wanted wholeheartedly
there was not there is nothing that would be
more important to him ten to
since that
we are really embody
that lesson
now it's also true that you know ah i think quite a few of you were at the hub
public docusign on thursday
i wasn't there but i gather that ah that he was wonderful and alive and environment and this is what this is what the dharma serves for him it really ah in those moments he gathers everything that is best that we that we true
really love about him
but that's not necessarily an energy that he could sustain
through all of the days
so we are entering this period
and it is it's it's hard
you know if it's a gift
it's a gift nobody asked for
and it's a gift that we can't give away
so difficult gift
and that difficult gift may be very valuable

so many stones in there are many stones ahead we have to watch very carefully
so some of you probably maybe a lot of you actually received a notification this morning in the email
ah that hundred twenty fourth of october which is two weeks from today how
there will be a ceremony
kim which sojourn roshi will step down as the abbot of berkley and center
and he will also car
he has expressed his willingness to accept a new position which will be given to him at the same time as he steps down the position of our
and we hope that that you can attend that i'm gonna put all of the gonna give you a bunch of data them and put off from in the chat have drive from you're speaking
this is
a remarkable moment a difficult moment a moment to for
celebration and for grief simultaneously how do we hold those two things at once
this is the part of our practice at the heart of our practices to be able to hold in our hearts and minds to things that are seemingly
at one time to hold ambiguity to whole ambivalence to hold
yes or no
to hold like and dislike
at the same time as part of one reality
k hand
not and somehow not to let one side interfere with the other
not to let the grief
interfere with our gratitude and celebration
and in our gratitude in celebration
not to pretend that grief is absent
so we will celebrate dad on the on the twenty fourth
how and by the way they will be no sushi in that day with we've rescheduled everything because we believe in impermanence ah so ah
it seems like this was important to do we really wanted sojourn roshi to be ah to be able to enter that ceremony wholeheartedly and and and physically ah and he was fine totally agree to that
next week
ah to less the seventies ah we will celebrate ah the occasion of certain rocio offering a priest ordination
two kicker susan hill lane
ah who has been is close to for quite a while and ah this is something that all of us really wanna to ah seem to be able to do and so that will take place also at at three o'clock on our
next saturday we will have a regular saturday program
so that's the seventeen and twenty fourth then at some point in the future tentatively scheduled for
i think the twenty eighth of december it might get changed will send out a notice about that at some point there will be a mountain seat ceremony
ah that presumably
would ah invite me to go forward as the has the habit of berkeley's and center
ha and ha
that's been
that was surgeons choice it's been recently ah affirmed by the
community in a piano enough
the electoral process as such and ah
i don't want to say a lot about that now because i'm still trying to get my my head around it ah
but how will we will let you know about that there are a few other things that i would like to just tell you about just so we lay out the full schedule for the next couple months on november third a election day we'll we'll have an open sendo
go from seven thirty until about five pm maybe later depending on what the need is ah and it just a place of refuge for people of i would say people of
any and all political stripes ah just you're welcome to we encourage you to vote really important ah and you're welcome to come sit just show up at any point in the day will have alternating periods of of zazen and walking meadow
citation and a couple of periods for for kind of open discussion ah but ah please join us if you know it's certainly the selection again no matter what side you're on has been a in the midst of the pandemic has been ah
a source of anxiety for many people so so take the refuge with hard step into jazz and once you've once you cast your vote ah and you welcome to do that
ah how to say we will have were having an abbreviated real hot suit this year which will take place ah from the nineteenth to twenty first of december roughly while seven o'clock in the morning until ah seven until about five
live in the evening
and then we'll have our new year's eve programs that's the rest of the year in in short
i'm also just to say i didn't scheduling some tuesday evening teas and if you want to participate in that ah please contact hannah and all this stuff being the chat at the end
i want to think there's been this week has been really busy ah
as i said it's really it's it's hard to be
it's hard to figure out what is appropriate
you know so fortunately we've been in in very
really good conversations with with sojourn roshi ah of looking with him looking at his his energy and right now ah
i think that
but he really wants to get done and he's been working really hard with ah isn't working several days a week ah particularly with with ron and chica
ah editing a book of talks he's got three books that are three in the works and these are extremely important this is what he wants to do now
and i really want to support him to do that and to clear the decks to whatever extent he wants to and feels it's appropriate so he's working on he's been working for a long time on a new book of suzuki roshi his talks which is working on with his student do you had
green gulch
ah he's been working with ron and kika and others on a collection of berkeley's intent or talks ah and ah the an anthology of them and i think that's
that's pretty much along the way and maybe run or kifah can tell you about that in a qa and he's also been working on a memoir and ah
dummy these are all books that we need and so i really want to support him as a first priority in in doing that right now
but meanwhile we've had to evaluate and arm
what do need what we think we need of the song is ah
what his needs are what is energy is and that's how we moved up these ceremonies region were thinking of the accepting down ceremony is paired with the mountain seat but it just seems to too long to wait so ah i want to thank particularly to as a whole bunch of people
we're working on the the technology for this switches ah
the technical logistics for the prickly for the mountain seat and for stepping down and mountain feet or more complex than anything we've done ah because they're they're going to have to be digital ah
from said cedric who is one of surgeons disciples ah has been coordinating ah the the activities of these of these two large ceremonies and ah we're very grateful dead with very high
is very even calm person and is just kind of the right and he's also as a fair amount of he says a lot of experience with these with these ceremonies through than or so he's the right person to help out and it's a pleasure to work with him

the mind of enlightenment is the mind that season to the nature of impermanence
that's really the point to hold in mind haha

i think that a place to stop and i'm happy to take your questions about
any of this the dharmic aspects the practical aspects ah and ah
may sojourn be well may we all be well and we hope that you'll be able to participate all these ceremonies by the way are going to be at this link the link that you're at right now ah they'll all be in in this info so with that way
give it back to blake to call on people
so i've opened up the chat so that everybody can chat our you can type a question in the chair please preceded with a question mark with the word question but you can type a question to everybody in the chat or you can
raise your blue hand as one participant one song member has done and i'll call on you if of course hassan if you'd like to call on somebody you may do that as well sure
so first i invite a ross plan to
laura's hand a new yourself and ask a question
wait and i thank you her son or a lovely talk on such short notice and an app topic drawing on a suzuki roshi is teaching
we'll go well
thank you may we all go well
ah i'll soon via ben to i beat herself and lower your hand and ask a question
hi hosts on can you hear me i can okay
thank you thank you for your talk
i just felt compelled to share a
sort of feeling a lot of sorrow and concerned this morning and actually felt it before i found out that surgery would not be speaking and you were giving our talk
and it gets to things come up for me recently
i've had some feeling or
noticed some possible connection between non acceptance of impermanence and greed
guy greed yes not that that's not understandable but i see sort of
me enjoying some food and wanting more of it even when i'm full seems to be not altogether different from be really enjoying a person or an experience and not wanting it to go away
part of impermanence is that it's easy to forget that it's there sometimes and take for granted what's around and
the other thing i'm feeling right now is real
some sorrow around not being able to gather in person during times like the yeah and for
not being able to have practice side by side with you in sojourn over the past few months which would have been possible without the pandemic
so that's what i wanted to share and thank you so much for your leadership and your care
thank you thank you ben well
i certainly think that that tie between
ah not accepting impermanence and greed
makes makes complete sense on

i think that the analogy between ah
eating food that you like and then eating more even when you're not hungry is may be a little different than ah
missing people that that you can't see ah
i think that you know if you eat more you're gonna get sick now actually if you get too much from somebody that you've like that may not work either but that's not really the problem ah
i think impermanence is really subtle
and it's to me
so the impermanence is one of the three marks of existence ah in traditionally three marks of existence are ah impermanence non self and suffering
so to me impermanence and non-self go very closely together
ah non-self means ah that everything is
constructed of
other things that makes sense ah so nothing there's no essence there's no like ah ben is constructed of many non been elements
the third mark i think it's a large question for us decline in mahayana buddhism
to my mind
suffering is completely contingent on our attitude towards
non self and impermanence
if if we can include it if we can accept it if we can fold it in then ah then rather then duca we have nirvana
which is exactly what dogan is saying the mind of enlightenment is the mind and season to the nature of impermanence
nirvana is recognizing to fundamental age of er impermanence ah and when we reject it
it's suffering and had suffering can take the form of greed
hate delusion or any mix of the three
so thank you and i wish that we were practicing face to face together but i also really feel you know i feel the presence and relationship of so many of us and actually
so this is one of this this is a stone that we can stumble over or what we can recognize is actually how have our relationships ah ha what binding energy
as actually intensified among all of us over the last nine months and i really believed that ice i feel it in my heart i feel like i know people better and closer we have we have more opportunities for a kind of fluid
ha interaction ah and so there's a gift in their human lot there's even though there's a loss as well
thank you thank you hassan is there a a moment for me to share one create a personal thing i'll be quick yeah i was listening to a sojourn lecture i think from were how to two thousand and eighteen which i was not able to attend a couple of days ago and i found this little pathogen is talk that i wanted to share
yes just be totally sorrowful when it's sorrow just be totally sorrowful so that there's nothing outside of your sorrow right then because there's nothing outside of your sorrow it's no longer sorrow it's only sorrow when it's opposite is there i wish that it wasn't like this
that just creates more and more sorrow the more you want to escape from your sorrow the more sorrowful you get that's the way it works just go completely into your sorrow and then there's no sorrow
thank you
to unmute himself and i ask a question
and you when ios on
i am
thanks for bringing up the topic
on the one side
while while we be
he not work on accepting the impermanence aspect of it on the other side
is there any one little thing that damn we can do
for surgeon and damn
we may not have announced now but maybe it's sam
an open question for i'm an urgent matter but maybe otherwise it's an open question
i have an answer
all he wants is for you to practice
that's it you know that
right yeah that's a the words
is what it is nothing that he wants to himself there's nothing that's lacking in his life or his household ah he just all he wants his first practice for you to practice
damn that was gonna say that and i was gonna say that november that's what that's what he's gonna say right yeah but stall am a wonder still you know if there's something ah
know maybe it's a question i have to keep asking myself that i keep that's fine and also i think to the extent that there's anything practical material to do you know ah will put the word out
okay thank you so much thank you for that offer
i invite linda has to unmute herself and ask for question
thank you
the boring
was on thank you first career center the oven wise words this morning click you've enjoyed listening to
i'm the question than asking it has to do with what you began listening not to gibberish is teaching using stones
so i ever since i read the st augustine's confessions in college i always remember this one line that he said
the thing which i would not do he's asking god in all hike or what what help me write that thing that i would not do that i do anything that i would do what would want to do that i do not do
so on
it's easier to understand
not blaming stones you know cause the stones it's kind of creative jones
if the if the stone is arrowroot addictive and harmful patterns
it's harder to come
appreciate how they bring us down a neighbor and they bring us up there not just innocent stones we have some responsibility in all of that language so could you clarify that for me well i think what he's saying in in and i think this is this is
this is what lorien i had no free over the course of the pandemic weeping ah
reading about we've been reading a lot of autonomy sutra which is basically one of the core zantac whose body damas cortex to was also where it's it's a course and text that actually is talking about the nature of mind and you know relate
to to mind only school of the yoga charter school and
basically i think that the argument is that those things are like stones
that if you can regard them as stones
just a stones and you can use them to stand up by
and in fact if you didn't have these difficulties you probably wouldn't be here you wouldn't be in this conversation he wouldn't be at the zendo
so it's i would say
they are innocent
they're not guilty and you have to figure out how to use the problem each of us each of us has to figure out how to use the problems that we have because they're what we'd been given to work with ah and you know
the problem i think that you're pointing to which i
oh wonder with bettering the problem that
the hang on second i'm sorry
can't talk
that was not a problem that was my sister on
the problem you're alluding to i think is that the things these these problems can cause harm for other people
i'm gonna mute myself just one second
i want to say well on hassan is muted in the phone goes on the kicker mentioned in response to the line of questioning
if surgeon wants anything of us it's presence lots of presence

how do you spell that
his fellow with you spell it with the c e now with a d right now so what i'm saying is i think about your including children died because i know we've we've talked about this lot is that we can do hundred people this and
we will not stop doing harm to people until we actually
really see
does this is what sissoko she's so you know he talks about this i think he says on
when you're deluded about the earth's true nature that is delusion when you're enlightened about the earth that is enlightenment when you stand up by the earth that is enlightenment when you fall and blame the earth that is delusion the same thing is true of our
the distortions of our personality actions
maybe i should leave it there thats ok to thank you thank you for for for getting up again and again it's it's it's really powerful example it's really it's it's inspiring
i invite susan marvin to an mute herself and lower her blue him
good morning alan moore nice on thank you so much for this lovely time and your words and in presence
what comes to mind in are just a few days before my father died he was ninety five he looked me in the eyes and he said are you going to fall apart when i die and i said absolutely not i'm going to grieve and i'm going to miss you terribly that i'm not going to
fall apart and he was so relieved there is a kind of on lightness the emerged and ice i think that on
it i'm so jin
he sees how we're not falling apart how the practice has become so strong during this time of the pandemic how
how we the strength of our practice is so so alive and so present and look how many of us are here online day and day out and i imagine that's a great relief to him that he can see that strength and he knows that will
we grieve but that will brickley zen center is in good shape
i just wanted to share that thank you well
first of all when we are talking with him this week i
what i felt i did not feel any sense of resignation
what i felt was that he trusted
and he trusted the sanga to be able to hold it
so so that was that was really encouraging the other thing is that
what in referred to have been quoted
we may have moments of falling apart
that's okay
we fall apart this is the nature to me it's nature the practice is falling apart and coming together
yeah it's dying and coming back life and dying and coming back to life in each moment and so when we sorrow we should really sorrow completely
and not just it won't just be one time you know the tears come and when they come let them flow
hello stop and something else happened in you will cry again that's okay that's all it's not like one blip and it's over
you know it's just whatever actually whatever it is that we're doing to enter it completely
that's i think what you learn from a practice set some we learn from sojourn that's what he learned from suzuki roshi
the i hit many of us are really really grateful for them
don't thank you
i invite deb self to unmute herself
the morning sir
simply beautiful an awkward fact that me i write my hammer not as unstable it's if it's okay so funky but i can hear you
am i i'm still interested that stumbling blocks my dear concept and other scriptures i was raised as a son comments before ah was then is some of the christian
scriptures which admonished us not to be our brothers stumbling block
and and down as one of the teachings that i think that i think that i've lost my internet but not just this this okay i'll finish this thought which is it's never occurred to me the opposite of that might be being a stone there for my brother and sister to get up
and also the people who seem like my stumbling blocks maybe my getting up stones and i'm interested to learn more about in a buddhist tradition around stumbling blocks ah can have i have to look further ah but
i you wonder the things i think that states
to the goes ah across the board to me for spiritual religious teachings so that every teaching is a remedy for your suffering
so it's not that the christian teaching is in contradiction to the buddhist teaching because ah
those teachings are not absolutes
ah you know on some other place you know the bullet might say yes mindfully remove all the stones from the pathway
i could imagine that he says something like that
and i can certainly imagine a the christ who was a given to seemingly paradoxical statements ah
talking about are using the stone to get up from that would seem completely in in in character with with those teachings to so ah
you use what's useful
you know you use the teaching in a way to it's useful if it's not used for this moment and forget about it and if it comes around approve oh yeah that is that's useful great but i look for i'll look for that for you and we can talk about it
i see let's just take these next three and probably that's it
peter overton

ah some really great see you too so much better or worse this morning
i just had a couple of impressions from what you said tampa could you talk on can you do with no
he like we were talking a lot about a moment of challenge when it comes to holding both celebration and grief and accepting the video
the this is he held on the earth to
kick the next step
that it seems to be the are there is in fact course him about a challenge are many moments and challenge you know that practice
it seems that the moment of acceptance or being able to hold those two things that seem contradictory as a kind of awesome beauty to the rises at the moment the moment he return to stand up
something happens and i think it's sometimes useful to remember that there is a it's a positive characteristic your attribute
no right and i think a yeah i think that that's right and i think that
to be
i feel like i was trained in
in kind of another pattern
yeah i'd think about it is like you are
trip over the stone and you fall down and you know than you
rolling around on the ground and to you know i'm
i'm hurt i'm hurt i'm getting dirty and urge
aurora and wallow in that if you know instead of just instead of getting up
ah you know
it reminds me of the scene and in the producers were ah ah
what's his name ah that does your alma still carriage was the other actor's name
well i can't remember anyway so i still throws the throes of a glass of water in his i'm where i work
and hysterical
you know the ground
could eventually have to get out right you have to get up you have to get up so why not get up when you can
you know ah cannot wallow not make more of your suffering then is necessary
it's not that you're not suffering but just don't make don't get stuck in it yeah
actually before i go to come here i wonder if rauner kiko wants to say something about the progress of the books

a kicker gonna go ahead on i can just say what we have been doing
and and maybe what i forget
ron and surgeon and i mean
a once a week and then recently the last two weeks going forward three or four times a week three times a week
to go over talks that were
first gone over by another group of people susan marvin carol call karen sometime andrea thatch lots of people contributed to getting going through sojourns talks and essays
and we got thirty five chapters are so so sojourn has gone through each chapter at least once if not twice so we have some pretty clean beautiful chapters
so now we're just seeing did we miss any good gems
you know he he continues to give talks that are really good and we want to include those as well so it's kind of where do we stop and do we use a volume two
well let all that ron pick up from there but it's it's it's such rewarding work at such a nice way to be close with ron and so and also to just read read and reread the sergeants autobiography and his lectures is really good way to em
learn surgeons teaching
i'm okay so we're working on his autobiography right now because it we've we've got over the first past the lectures will go back some more
but now we're working on his autobiography which he's been working on for quite awhile as well as for talks to the game it as a horror when you can my talks about his life and that you know i i'd rather just tell you how i feel about his attitude rather than the details of the books that i just put you know we're working really hard on
it and he is very sharp when he's working with us and he's really heat accept things instantly in language that i would never even think about ah and i very is very thorough but he's also very sensitive when especially going back over his life and
also very matter of fact and those two qualities or teach me i can kick a to something about how he is taking care of what he's doing right now is a matter of combination of matter of fact this and real sensitivity so as what it feels like it
and i'm learning from that thank you thank you both thank you for that work can just say i've always felt that ah
get certain know she was an excellent editor excellent editor of his own work and excellent and or of suzuki vote which is where it really just pairs it down to the to the essence and i've i've learned a lot from just observing how he does that so
yeah before i get last two ah i just as a matt glaser posted the clip from the producers that i was ah
on skillfully enacting and it's worth seeing but not not right now lol wait till rush right after the talk ah kabir
good morning thank you hold on on thank you for great talk as always in our wishing sajjan fast recovery definitely am i'm worried but as human nature
and regards to the stones on the pad
i saw to see it on
i kind of look at as acknowledgement and also taking responsibility
and decor that comes to minors from shanti deva and actually haven't spent on myself with my sandals so
when i'm walking with my
not you frozen

he killed an analogy is if you want to protect the bottom of your feet you can cover the entire world with leather or simply wanted a pair of shoes right you know the stones are always gonna be there
we just gotta to do our part and keep continue to get back up
thank you well it's also interesting that one tiny tiny stone your sandal can be very uncomfortable yes you know fear and if your job is to be a road builder
you wanna make a smooth pathway because that's your job that's your intention so it's not like you know you leave me i think about places in berkeley reason why they left all these routes they're you know
anyway on the last one is helen
good morning morning
i've been reading francis whether who writes a lot about grief and sorrow and he quoted a poet glial barbara de bruyne i'm saying the deeper that sorrow cars and to you're being the more joy you can contain and i've been thinking about that relationship between
grief and mourning and sadness and on the other hand
and also a celebration and joy and i find great comfort in that and that i just wanted to share it with you and everyone and also find out what you think about that idea
i think
i think that suffering
can really teach us
about to experience the joy of not suffering
you know ah and that makes us look even more deeply into the nature of suffering but also into nature of joy i mean i i think that i really relate to
ah these words of of kick not on that suffering is not enough
ah that one of the problems in the configuration the in the understanding of buddhism or the waves it's taught in a very simplistic way is that life is suffering
can i book the way i think about it his life is marked by suffering it doesn't boil to say life is suffering means it boils down to suffering which is
clique unacceptable ah but i feel that suffering it said as as you were quoting her further suffering kind of tempers us ha suffering can break you but it also is like a fire that you go through that that allows
you to be stronger and more flexible
you know if you have the capacity to really ah
to work with your suffering then it can be a gift ah but i don't wanna i also don't want no simplistically you're idealistic li ha romanticize suffering ah suffering somebody who
once asked me ah
the surf does suffering
bring redemption
because they think a lot of religious traditions there's there's they're kind of message and i said i don't really think so ah but it can it can be an element of that
but not necessarily it's only what it comes back to what i'm saying that we learn a lot of tourists into it comes back to your mind how you work with it
and that's our practice so i think this is a good place to stop and i want to ah thank you all and let's just let's take care of let's all take care of each other and let's take care of sojourn in the practice has best we can and
have good weekend