Good to see everybody Is my voice loud enough Thank you So good to see you So when I spoke before maybe about a year ago I talked about the heart sutra and I'm still thinking and wanting to talk about the heart sutra The sutra we chant every day at Berkeley Zen Center every time actually we're together for we for service we chant it and It's chanted by people at Buddhist centers and temples around the world every day. I Want to talk about the core meaning of the heart sutra What we call emptiness All things are empty of their own inherent existence because all are subject to or inextricably part of their causes and conditions and I want to talk about emptiness in relation to the interdependent web of all existence and

[01:05]

to our practice of Zazen This requires a leap spiritual emptiness The kind we practice with here is different from scientific emptiness the kind studied by physicists ecologists and others For me they merge Because non scientists that I am I look at scientific understanding with a spiritual lens Technical mistake though this may be it is what I practice with Emptiness Emptiness is a confusing term unless we use all those connecting words empty of inherent existence empty of causes and conditions Empty usually means empty nothing there and the heart sutra emptiness means the opposite Everything is there The clearer expression is in a newer translation of the heart sutra by Joan Halifax and Kaz Tanahashi

[02:11]

using the term boundlessness There's a link to this version in the chat box Here are some excerpts using their words Avalokiteshvara who helps all to awaken Moves in the deep course of realizing wisdom beyond wisdom Sees that all five streams of body heart and mind are without boundary Form is not separate from boundlessness Boundlessness is not separate from form boundlessness is the nature of all things Boundless is boundlessness is the nature of all things from the scientific point of view as well as the spiritual There's a personal history, of course to my deep connection to the heart sutra. I Was immersed in a childhood family where what was true was not well represented My parents were extremely dedicated to making things look good and to silence about things that weren't good

[03:14]

So I grew up Determined to find out and represent what really is I was offended and distressed about Obfuscation how I love that word obfuscation. I Grew up in the 1940s and 50s active and liberal Protestant churches Believing the version of the stories of Jesus and God that they taught In a Bible literature course at a liberal arts college I learned about the lack of verifiable historical basis for those stories and found that not just my parents But the Congregational Church of San Mateo couldn't be relied upon for the true story To step back I Was fortunate as a child to live in places where nature was a refuge As a young very young child in rural, Michigan I was allowed to spend much of my time in a wild field next to our home. I Made nests in the tall grasses and was enchanted by field mice who I must have attracted by bringing along snacks to share

[04:22]

When my mother wondered where I was she would find me by looking out an upstairs window a Move to Detroit wrenched me away from that wonder-filled place Although in Detroit were child-sustaining features of other kinds Years later a move to San Mateo gave me access to what was then much wild land on my long climb between our neighborhood and Crystal Springs Reservoir something I did for a period of years almost every Saturday and And Shortly after we moved there I began to have annual trips to my heart's home a Girl Scout camp in the Kit Carson Pass Where I still go and immerse in a red fir forest with wild lake on one side and granite slabs Leak leading up to a volcanic peak on the other Here too as a child, I fall found nests to be in and felt close to the wild world

[05:27]

In this natural safe place. I could find stillness and take in what was around me lichens trees squirrels birds Others have spoken here in our Zendo About what is called the wood wide web the way we now understand That underground is a network of fungi that connect with the roots of trees and other plants This network carries water and nutrients through an ecosystem throughout an ecosystem not uniformly or randomly, but in accord with purposes little understood and It's sustained by what the trees give to us All this is continued to be observed by instruments that see smaller and smaller Making clear that as small as it gets the interdependence endures and Now as a grandma with a camp name of mama bear I go up there to that camp and encourage young girls also to immerse in to see up close

[06:35]

the wondrous details of an ecosystem typical of this altitude in our Sierra Nevada Mountains, I Encourage them to see lichens moss granite tree bark and needles up close at 30% magnification with a jewelers loop If you've never done this and we get to be together again, please ask me to show you something with a jewelers loop It's amazing The thing about doing that with these girls is that you wonder are they really seeing are they really seeing what we want them to see And I know they have Because when they get that loop up to their eye and they get very close to the whatever it is There's a sharp intake of breath and they say oh Ah that Oh is a first step to inquiry to understanding to appreciation Velocity of science and

[07:37]

Particle physics for which I feel ah have long seemed to me a route to take to understand what is true about life Early in college before the concept of ecology reached me I became enamored with Alfred North Whitehead's concept the fallacy of misplaced concreteness the fallacy in the way we humans Misuse abstract abstract concepts as if they are accurate descriptions of reality Whitehead wrote in 1929 that a concrete physical object in the universe does not possess the character of simple location without reference to its relations to other objects and To think of a spatial point as being anything other than an abstraction is a mistake Isn't this boundlessness? For years, I was in something like a marriage with a geocosmo chemist who analyzed the composition of rocks

[08:39]

of meteorites samples of rocks Extricated in Sweden in a four-mile deep drilling into the earth and in rocks brought back from the moon Over dinner. I wanted to hear his stories All these rocks meteorites flung down on earth from space those embedded in the moon surfaced way out there in our solar system and rocks from deep in the earth representative of the beginnings of planet earth are Samples of the formation of the solar system and the processes that have followed out in space on the moon and on earth The Big Bang is a theory of how our universe began about 13.8 million billion years ago. All matter was compacted into a very small very dense and hot ball Over millennia it decompressed Interacted and became planets plants and all of life

[09:42]

learning more by replicating Big Bangs in tunnels under the ground Particle physicists are looking for the smallest unique particle in nature as They keep doing this more and more powerfully. They find smaller and smaller particles and small strings. I Once was fortunate to accompany my partner to an evening program at Argonne National Lab Which sits on top of a particle accelerator? I had a sense of a sacred quest going on there an awe-filled sense of entering a vast Cathedral With way stations where you could peer down into the deep accelerator tunnels This is the way it is for me Not scientists confirming a spiritual truth But scientists many of them unaware that their work merges with the spiritual Unitarianism became my first religious solution after my

[10:46]

departure from Protestantism as a person who found comfort solace joy and adventure in wilderness and in calling to mind Whitehead's fallacy I was moved by the Unitarian principle that we are all part of an interdependent web of all existence a concept I embraced And felt a lack as Unitarianism provided no way apart from thought to practice with that interdependent web For me Buddhism provided that practice what we do here is that practice and the heart sutra is central to that practice The heart sutra comes from way back in the first century BC Before written records about its history What is thought is that early Buddhists monastics? attempted carefully to describe reality Thinking that to specifically define was to see clearly

[11:47]

later Buddhists in the south of India wrote and studied Prajnaparamita Sutras as a way of negating that limited specificity of all those descriptions of separate parts of reality Instead they articulated that all things are empty of their own inherent existence Because they are all relative to causes and conditions the early Indian Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna articulated this The short version of those Prajnaparamita Sutras we chant the heart sutra Negates all the specifics that early Buddhists used to get close to the reality of all existence No eyes, no ears. No nose. No tongue. No body. No mind No object of mind to me another way of articulating the fallacy of misplaced concreteness Emptiness is fullness everything inextricably connected to every other thing

[12:48]

Our practice here is the current result of the revolution in Buddhist understanding that the first Prajnaparamita Sutra brought Perhaps the fact that South Indian society in which those sutras arose was matrilineal was influenced Was was influential. I wish we could know more not for lack of trying Those sutras including the first one the sutra in 8,000 lines were brought to China and studied there and someone in China as I talked about before Conflict composed this short version and a young monk's epic journey and devotion to translation of Buddha's sutras Brought our heart sutra to be chanted worldwide The heart sutra means the world to this that truth-seeking nature loving girl now woman Because it is an amazingly prescient description of what our modern particle physics and scientific ecology

[13:52]

also teach It seems to tell the truth as we can at this point know it not science proving scripture but scientists on a spiritual truth telling quest Chanting the heart sutra our bodies feel the rhythm the sound of words that negate separate specificities and Come free into boundlessness Avalokiteshvara Who helps all to awaken moves in the deep course of realizing wisdom beyond wisdom? sees that all five streams of body heart and mind are without boundary and frees all from anguish Boundless is boundlessness is the nature of all things The Heart sutra ends with all mere words can do with boundlessness sounds of got a got a

[14:54]

para some got a bodhisattva Sounds that go beyond words that resonate with our spirit Our daily dot Zazen to goes beyond words and opens us to presence to respect to the possibility of being with all that is After long sessions, we notice that the world we re-enter is in sharp focus Bright crisp and clear We sit still and know Feel that we are sitting feel the weight of our bodies on cushion or chair hear sounds Tune into our breathing note thinking Return to our bodies and our breathing in stillness. We receive what is around us

[15:58]

day after day We enter a body mind way for seconds or for longer a way where boundlessness can be approached These are my experiences with the teachings of the heart sutra Often referred to as emptiness teachings I prefer to think of as fullness full of no separation of total interconnection of boundlessness Other humans have other ways of tuning into the vastness of boundlessness ancient peoples unencumbered by human created Mediations of boundlessness had profound understanding of the night sky John Muir alone and unencumbered by stuff Deeply saw the rocks and the living beings in the high Sierra Poets quiet see and capture Humans in quiet joined we meditators and particle physicists paying attention and hearing I

[17:06]

I Like to hear the poet David Wagoner Inspired by what the white South African Lawrence Vanderpost learned from the Bushmen of the Kalahari Desert When Lawrence Vanderpost one night in the Kalahari Desert Told the Bushmen he couldn't hear the stars Singing they didn't believe him They looked at him half smiling They examined his face to see whether he was joking or deceiving them Then two of those small men who plant nothing who have almost nothing to hunt Who live on almost nothing and with no one but themselves? Led him away from the crackling thorn scrub fire and stood with him under the night sky and Listened One of them whispered. Do you not hear them now and Vanderpost listened not wanting to disbelieve but had to answer no

[18:12]

They walked him slowly like a sick man to the small dim circle of firelight and told him they were terribly sorry and he felt even sorrier for himself and Blamed his ancestors for their strange loss of hearing Which was his loss now on? some clear night when nearby houses have turned off their visions when the traffic dwindles and When through streets are between sirens and jets overhead are between crossings when the wind is hanging fire in the fir trees and the long-eared owl in the neighboring Grove Between calls is regarding his own darkness. I look at the stars again as I first did To school myself in the names of constellations and remember my first sense of their terrible distance I can still hear what I thought at the edge of silence

[19:16]

Where the inside jokes of my heartbeat my arterial traffic the sea above high sea of my inner ear Myself tunelessly humming, but now I know what they are my fair share of the music of the spheres and clusters of ripening stars of the songs from the throats of the old gods Still tending ever toned-up creature deaf creatures through their exiles in the desert So this is what I think and I'm done talking and I'm so very curious to hear what you think What is your experience of the heart sutras words of the experience of zazen of? How we practice if we all practice with the interdependent web of all existence So, please do let me know

[20:18]

Reinvite your questions, please raise your digital hand And we'll call on you and spotlight you Hey Thank You Hannah, I I'm not wiping my eyes because I'm enjoying the tears you've delivered to me Thank you, and I wanted to say that to answer your question how I See, well, it won't be the same after this. I really Appreciate that door that opening to the depth the poetic Beauty things that we've all touched together I think in various past and then a little bit about the boundlessness. My goodness. Just thank you and I won't look at it the same way after this I'll continue working at it. Thank you. Look forward to keeping on sitting together

[21:24]

Like am I calling on people are you We can try to go back and forth How about we do this if you see some of these actual hand feel free to call on them and I'll call on the digital hands, you know Okay, I'm good. I did see Ben. Yep Hi, Hannah, I've been thank you so much for your talk. It was wonderful Wow, that poem is something else. Um, I Don't have much to say but I'm thinking about what the heart sutra means to me and you've I love all that you've shared. There's one line that sticks with me a lot Which is far apart from every perverted view one dwells in nirvana And I don't know if you have anything to say about that or if someone else might have something to say So, thank you hmm, I Think our usual views of separating everything is the perverted view

[22:27]

Just not that way Kind of a loaded word perverted view I'm I'm now I'm curious to rush to the new translation and see what word they had I'll check it out as soon as we're done with this I think SFC sees translation. They use uses inverted view. Yeah, I'm not mistaken Which might be clarifying. It's also not very poetic. So I'm Inflation Yeah, I guess I really like that idea that it's only my Limited or distorted view that keeps nirvana away. There's something There's a strong trust or faith there that comes out of that that I really appreciate Yeah, and to get to the very specific if you take that jeweler's loop have you ever done it and you go and You see the thing in front of you at 30% magnification

[23:30]

It is just like oh, there's a whole world a whole world. And of course, there's a world beyond that world you know that we That those particle physicists are trying to see down in those accelerator tunnels, you know Quite amazing. It just goes on and on Like I passed you Rondi Rondi It's it's Charlie Rondi, it's Charlie Hana, thank you so much I am amazed at the correspondence between something I read last Sunday and your talk and I just want to give you two sentences from a book review by a Nobel laureate in particle physics Okay The number of atoms in the in a single human body is roughly 10 to the 28th

[24:39]

That is 1 followed by 28 zeros a million times the number of stars in the visible universe Okay, thank you, that's it that's it. Thank you so much Charlie as always Hi and been a long time There am I unmuted now, yeah, yes you are excellent. Okay. Um, thank you so much your your talk really really really Hit me at a deep level and I loved hearing about how you work with children when you cook a grandma bear And show them the loops to show how small I mean, you know You look at some piece some soil even or a tree and you can see the life within that it at that, you know

[25:46]

magnitudes they couldn't see before and how that you connect that with the spiritual world and Thank you so much and I Hopefully hopefully those children will grow up to be adults who understand the interconnectedness of everything Which is one of the things that this practice all Does for me, you know and hopefully for more people too, so thank you. Um, yeah, I'm getting all emotional about it now, but thank you so much and Keep it up Sometimes I I think my camp naturalist job is a kind of a sneak attack of Buddhism on the Girl Scout camp But yes, yes Secret yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I Would like I would like to thank Dan Hardin and Linda Hess for providing translations of The heart sutra in the chat So feel free to open those and save those and I'd like to call on next Jeff Taylor

[26:50]

Definitely need your to unmute Sorry Oh, yes, there's something Still can't hear you Something wrong with the sound Okay Jeff I'll call on you one more time. Maybe and maybe the spirits will fix themselves But first, let me call on Ed Hi You I really appreciate your talk a lot and just because the I Remember as a new practitioner To Zen to Zen Center. I was so confused by the heart sutra. I said why? why are we saying no this and no that and and

[28:08]

I spent so much time trying to Understand what that was about and But the idea of boundlessness makes a lot of sense to me and An emptiness was also a loaded word for me an empty of what so what's empty who's you know? Why isn't it full and and I guess what I I thought was well, maybe it's empty of meaning And and that seemed to help a little bit but so I really appreciate you Offering your understanding of that and I wanted to know if you could say anything to maybe new people to Zen Center about dealing with the understanding the heart sutra Well, that's what I was trying to say because I think it's really I think the word boundlessness is a much better word for us than emptiness. So I would say

[29:11]

think boundlessness think Think no separations, it's uh, you know, I Were other words are kind of I tend to sometimes fall back on it's all one big smear, you know, but of course smear is a Very gross a way of expressing this It I Think you know Zazen is a big help When you sit and you really sink into Being right here and you can get sometimes we're lucky and get really quiet sitting there and and are more open to To the Whole rather than the All those little thoughts and all those little details and all those little separate things which are really delusion

[30:16]

Yeah, operate with them. Is that yeah, I also think that the idea of Boundlessness feels inclusive to me. Yeah, and so looking at it from a point of view of inclusiveness rather than the negative and and I think that that's That's what was one of the things that made Understanding the heart sutra hard for me. Well, thank you Thank you Jeff let's give it one more try This is a recurring problem as Linda has reminded me of sometimes you just for this meeting either you have to leave the meeting and come back when The mute button or or just not speak, but Jeff tried again Okay, Jeff is left Linda has please unmute yourself and ask a question Hey, thank you Hannah, that was really beautiful

[31:18]

And You've asked what Heart Sutra has meant to us and I just I would like to say briefly that From the very beginning whether I understood it or not in any way. I could explain the Heart Sutra meant and Absolutely captured me. It meant wisdom and compassion Emptiness meant some kind of enlightenment about, you know beyond our usual but then It that could lead to some deluded rejection of everything and a deluded kind of detachment form meant You and me and every single thing and so you could never escape Every time there was emptiness there was form every time there was form. There was emptiness marrying those two together Completely Gave me an experience of wisdom and compassion that I adored that's probably why I stuck with Zen

[32:29]

So that's one thing but then I have a question. This is a little strange It's a question for somebody else in the in the group On Thursday evening when we were hearing more shared remembrances of Sojin Karen sometime, excuse me, Karen if I'm shocking you by calling you forth like this, but she included in her Remembrances that when she first heard the Heart Sutra, she didn't like it Just didn't like it too many know this know that know this know that and she told Sojin she didn't like it and he invited her to a long series of one-on-one meetings to study it and I just I don't know if it's possible Karen or even if it's fair for me to ask you But is there anything you could share with us briefly about? What he changed for you or what that changed for you about your dislike of the Heart Sutra and it's all it's no no, no Um, I could share

[33:31]

that when I started I Thought also that Emptiness was a thing. It was a place you go to free from suffering that it took a lot of work and that the more concrete things like intrusive thoughts and feelings That they wouldn't be there in emptiness So I remember when Sojin and I met one-to-one He insisted emptiness is not a thing it's the places you don't like The real question is how you relate to it Whether you get caught in your dislikes or your cravings so That that comes to mind Do you mean emptiness you said is what you don't like, but do you mean includes what you don't like

[34:35]

It includes Just like Hannah was saying it's boundless, but the boundlessness includes everything Thank you As for your patience Peter Overton, please unmute yourself and ask a question I Have Thank you very much for your talk I've had it really interesting and it occurred to me this this analogy sort of popped out in front of me just a minute ago About how Zazen is the jeweler's loop That shows us the nature of our existence And if we can just be patient with it enough You can turn things around for something Anyway, I just wanted to share that. I wonder what you think about that

[35:38]

Actually, you moved me to tears Thank you, it's beautiful Jeff Taylor, would you like to take a third try? three times a charm Sue moon, please unmute yourself and ask a question. I So much beautiful beautiful, I just wanted to mention that When I started sitting many years ago, I Immediately sort of glommed on to the heart suture without understanding it at all and and I memorized it right away and I would say to myself all the time wherever I was going and I

[36:44]

Somehow and this has remained true Even though I didn't understand it. I found it just hugely Comforting it was like a prayer or something and that In the most dark the starkest line of all no eyes. No ears. No nose. No tongue. No body. No mind that was the one when I first heard it that was just Well, how can you say that here I am say Somehow it Comforted me. I don't know and I and I when I'm afraid or even if I'm on a bumpy airplane or something like that, I'll say the heart suture to myself and Even this very last night in the middle of the night. I woke up and had a minor attack of insomnia and worrying about one thing and another and Which occasionally happens and I lay in bed and said the heart suture to myself, which is maybe if that's I don't know if that's kind of A very unspiritual way to make use of the heart suture

[37:48]

But it just really helps me and I said and I I said it out loud I thought well, I'll just say it out loud instead of in my mind and So and in the meantime, I've come to understand more thoughts about it and ideas about it and what does boundlessness mean and I I love red pines commentary on the heart sutra and But I I still there's this basic kind of mystery of it also that allows for everything somehow that I find really really helpful and and The fact that it is all about interconnection and that I'm not alone somehow So anyway, I just I just wanted to honor it for its kind of mysterious Help that also can extend to us. Thank you First I am Richie and then hose on since a Diane, please unmute yourself

[38:54]

I I really liked your talk and I love love love the heart sutra And I guess my the two comments I wanted to make are My understanding of the heart sutra was really I could I really got it a lot better when When I thought of a teacup, you know how a teacup has Space in the center. I don't know if you can see my hands And And Yes, there we go. And it has that emptiness in the center. It's got that that it holds everything and That's how I could understand Emptiness is it's not nothing, it's it it's everything it it's

[39:54]

the possibility of Things the good things good things and the bad things all the things and I guess for me I I am that teacup, you know, I I'm and when I'm sitting in southern I'm I'm holding space for all the possibility and In fact just living. I'm holding all the space for all the possibilities So that was my experience of the heart sutras it's so It's a visceral the visceral And then I love Lawrence Vanderpost my two favorite books in the world are a story like the wind and a far-off place and He talks about Son Good good story, but I want to say thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. I really love this

[41:02]

Sittings eyes and feeling like the cup. Mm-hmm. Thank you Hannah can you remind us of the title of We are we just got it again, thank you Linda Hess for dropping the title of the poem in there I haven't read the link, but it's in there hose on Hannah do you have a hose on please send me yourself and ask a question? Thanks so much. Anna was wonderful. There's so many resonant points. Um, I Feel that I was very fortunate Really soon after I began to practice and we were chanting the heart sutra I Went to a session with a Student of surgeons from Mexico this was a Tassajara dining room and he was doing he did a couple of afternoon sessions on the heart sutra and

[42:07]

the way he explained Juniata or emptiness Has always stuck with me and completely resonated which was empty of self empty of independent self Which means full of dependence? And That that everything in our world including ourself is As Tassajara says made up of non-self elements and So We Emptiness is sort of paired in in certain aspects of Buddhist philosophy with Tatata which is suchness Which is a fullness? so that really That resonated with me

[43:10]

and I was never troubled by the kind of via negativa of Of the nose. I always took it as a No, you don't really have the whole view here. Mm-hmm. And Uh-huh, and it would point me back towards it So that's one one comment comment two is you asked about the far apart from every perverted view Right, you mentioned that? well the term that that cousin and Roshi Joan use is Confusion far apart from confusion. I think that the Sanskrit word is cheetah varana Which basically my understanding is it means mind hindrance? And Frankly, I like that a lot better because that did it doesn't carry a kind of

[44:11]

it does it's not mushy and it doesn't carry a Pejorative Implication is just that We have these hindrances. We have these coverings in our mind that that don't don't allow us to see Emptiness don't allow us to see the full the fact that everything is interconnected So I think I'll stop there and also just to say I am really appreciate this idea of The fallacy of misplaced concreteness we talked about this a little from Whitehead and there's correspondences between Whitehead and And Buddhist philosophy That are that are very clear and there's lots of papers and stuff about this but I think he's coming at it from a Western perspective, which is part of the same self-discovery that

[45:12]

That our Buddhist ancestors did so We should keep exploring the way These philosophical Concepts are actually useful you know the fallacy of misplaced concreteness to me is like The tendency we have to think that what we're thinking and seeing is real Which is not to say that it isn't but We should we should stop a minute and look. I think that's what the card suture is saying just stop fearlessly And look around Take the loop Take the loop and look really closely or take a telescope And see what's happening at a distance Optically, they're the same kinds of mechanisms

[46:15]

So, thank you Kabir and then Jeff and then Jeanette I had a thank you so much for a beautiful talk. Hi What intimate emptiness meant for me when I was about four or five years old in Afghanistan I went to some of my friends and I asked show me Allah and They say it has no form has no gender You can't see it, but it's everywhere and everything comes from it in it. It's a creator of all Well when I came to America what 20 some years later when I met Buddhism and it start talking about emptiness I've got my answer So And I would start running around and telling you and my mom some of my Muslim friends and relatives and they just

[47:19]

didn't take it too well, but I just kept going and Recently I was listening to Alan Watts and he named it the unshakable shaker So That's what emptiness means to me is and when I went to Canada many years ago for a Tibetan Retreat I met this Muslim Pakistani girl that she was also there the festival and She just looked at me she said Kabir Allah is emptiness. That's what it is. And so that was a bit of you know confirmation so Sort of surrendering to the idea of emptiness and letting go of this Concrete feeling of things are solid and exist from their own side Emptiness sort of just pulls the rug under me and Shows me that there's a bigger hand in play and

[48:26]

And this in this year of consciousness. So that's what emptiness means to me. So, thank you Thank you Jeff and for the final round am I on yay. Yeah, I hate Bluetooth I'll be very brief. Hannah. That was a wonderful talk so many paths into reality and into Understanding that that you share and and that's that's really what I love, right? I mean the ideas that everybody has shared are like a jewel that can be turned how do we understand emptiness now and now and now and and for me the the Independent on causation Independent of existing self is a great operative formula for me But also the presence of everything and boundlessness is a wonderful association. Thank you The thing the thing that I wanted to point out very briefly is that in particle physics as you get into smaller and smaller and smaller

[49:28]

spaces Nonduality begins to express itself and what we find is that the location of any particular particle is both excellent and predictive any one point in time You can talk about where the particle is, but it's not correct You can predict where the particle is and understand it as a prediction Which is closer to to how how reality really operates and we don't really understand how to reconcile those two concepts Which is fine, but both things are true at the same time. We don't know where it is and we do Thank you so much for a wonderful time Wow, thank you Jeanette I May thank you Hannah Thank you for boundlessness For the very moving singing of the stars. I Have a poem called my cup is half full of emptiness

[50:28]

Are you gonna send it to us? As The final questioner for the day Joe's Joe Buckner, please Thanks, Anna I I'm a pretty negative person. So I like the nose the nose really really caught me and I I enjoyed them and so I wanted to share how Since I am negative and sort of inversion of your jewelers lens and I live up in the hills and I'd like to walk up to the math sciences and space sciences lab and You can see the entire Bay You can see Richmond Bay Bridge Golden Gate Bridge Oakland Bay Bridge and

[51:41]

down to towards the south of San Francisco and When I go up there I think Think of everything that's going down amongst like these million-plus people out in front of me and And Someone's overdosing someone's being sexually assaulted, you know, someone's just got a promotion someone's Making a new friend, you know Someone's crying some just all of life is going on down there and And And yet when I'm up there, you can't hear a single thing, you know There's no cars or nothing you just hear the wind blowing in the trees and it's totally calm and totally peaceful and you look out in front of you and there's all these cargo boats and cars and everything and To me that expresses emptiness is form and form is emptiness just that

[52:50]

Instead of taking a closer look through the jewelers lens for me. It was stepping back and seeing this huge wide grand picture and just a relative glimpse of boundlessness and I you know when astronauts are up in Space and look down at the earth and how moving that is for them So I just wanted to share my sort of inverted view of the jewelers lens. Thanks. Thank you Thank you

[53:26]

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