This morning is what we call Kids Zendo, where we spend the first bit of time talking to the kids. So, hi kids. What's your name? Do you have a name? What is it? That's good enough. What's your name? Yeah, what's your name? David. You are David? Yeah. And you are? Agniaga. [...] Agniaga Well, today I have a good subject.

[01:06]

Do you know what it is? I'll tell you. It's garbage. You know what garbage is? What? What is garbage, David? Rotten stuff. Ricky stuff? Rotten. Rotten stuff. Right. Is that good or bad? Bad. Good bad. It's bad because you don't like it. Why is it bad? Because it's rotten. No, because it's fertilizer. Well, I thought of a poem. Is garbage good or is garbage bad? I don't know. I don't know.

[02:08]

I don't know, but when I smell it, it makes me sick. Sad. So, we don't like garbage because it Smells bad. Garbage smells bad. But garbage has a good side as well as a bad side. Did you know that? I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why garbage is okay. Garbage may not be okay, but you know, garbage is disintegrating, that's why it smells so bad. Put all these ucky things, all these nice orange peels and cabbage and stuff like that together, it's garbage.

[03:17]

And then when it gets together, it starts doing this little dance called disintegrating. And breaking down and breaking down. And then we put it in a big pile. And all these little animals start going through it. And then it starts getting hot. And then it starts breaking down, breaking down, and pretty soon, it's something else. And then when it's something else, we put it in the ground. And when we put it in the ground, The tree, all the plants have roots, and the roots are like straws. And when it rains, the rain goes into the ground and mixes with the compost. It's called compost. You know that.

[04:18]

And then it becomes soup. Soup? Yeah, it's soup. Fertilizer. But I call it soup. The reason why I call it soup is because the trees use straws called roots to go and suck it up. And then it becomes food for the plants. And then it starts to smell very good and doesn't smell bad anymore. But it's no longer garbage. That's why something else called compost. No. You're sure? Eventually. So what was bad once is now good. So what's bad turns into something good. And what's good circles around and becomes bad again.

[05:23]

So it goes around in circles which are called cycles. The life cycle of a bird and a cat? Can you tell me about that? Then they turn into an adult, right? Then they do it all over again.

[06:32]

Wow. First they start out young, then they get middle-aged and then they get old. Then they have babies and then that's the cycle, right? So things go in cycles, circles. So you guys seem to know a lot about compost. And garbage. So when one thing, when the cycle of one thing is is complete, then something else is born, right?

[07:42]

Something dies, and then something is born. And then something dies, and something is born. That's life cycles, which happens all the time. I know that you carve a pumpkin, and then it starts to rot, and then it goes down into That's right. Well, thank you very much, kids, for educating me. And these two guys in the front are the best. Andros and comedy. Well, we need a little comedy in our life.

[08:46]

Oh, the green light's off. That one wasn't worth recording. So today I'm going to comment on a koan that everybody, more or less everybody knows, and I've talked about this many times. This is called, this is case 19 of the Mumon Kon, and it's called Nonsense, Ordinary Mind is the Way. This is a case that involves Joshu, or Jojo,

[10:30]

And Nansen, Nanchuan, in the Tang Dynasty in China, two very famous or well-known Zen masters. But Joshu, of course, was much younger, and Nansen was his teacher. So Joshu asked Nansen, what is the way? What is the Tao? Ordinary mind is the way, Nansen replied. Shall I try to seek after it? Joshu asked. If you try for it, you will become separated from it, responded Nansen. How can I know the way unless I try for it, persisted Joshu. Nansen said, the way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing. Knowing is delusion. not knowing is confusion.

[11:32]

When you have really reached the true way beyond doubt, you will find that it is as vast and boundless as outer space. How can it be talked about on the level of right and wrong?" With these words, Joshu came to a sudden realization. And then Mumon has a comment. He says, Nansen dissolved and melted away. Before Joshu's questions, it cannot offer a plausible explanation. Even though Joshu comes to a realization, he must delve into it for another 30 years before he can truly understand it. And then Mumon has a verse. He says, The spring flowers, the autumn moon, summer breezes, winter snow. If useless things do not clutter your mind, you have the best days of your life.

[12:36]

So Joshu, going back to the beginning, Joshu asks Nansen, what is the way? In China, the Buddhists picked up the Taoist term, Tao, for the way of everything, but basically meaning the way-seeking, the way of the Dharma. How do we practice the Dharma? What is the way to do that? How do we do that? Nansen said, ordinary mind is the way. So ordinary, this word ordinary is very interesting.

[13:40]

We usually often think ordinary means less than, special. We have special and ordinary. And in a way, special kind of means satori or enlightenment or realization, something like that, liberation. But we have to be very careful because this is the usual way of thinking about ordinary, about special. And ordinary means what I do every day. I get up in the morning, I brush my teeth. These are ordinary activities, right? Getting up in the morning, brushing my teeth, going to the bathroom, whatever. And routine, sort of routine stuff.

[14:42]

And so we have this kind of, dichotomy between ordinary and special. But as Zen students, we know that the ordinary is not just ordinary in that sense. Even though we know that, we still don't believe it because You know, when we come to the Zen Do, it's a special event, in a sense, because the Zen Do has the atmosphere of practice. The whole reason for the formality of the Zen Do is to give us, to create the atmosphere of practice. So when I step into the Zen Do, I know what I'm doing. I mean, we think that anyway. In a certain sense, we know, oh, this is the zendo.

[15:49]

This is where you sit zazen and where you practice zen. This is the zen practice. And then, because it has a form, it has a very strict form, and then when we go out, leave the zendo, it's formless practice. It's like if you light a match in a closet, the whole closet lights up. If you light a match in the desert in the daytime, it doesn't make any difference. So walking into the zendo is like lighting a match in the closet. The practice lights up. But when you walk out and go to work, get in your car and drive down the freeway, it's like lighting a match in the desert in the daytime. Where is the practice? Nonsense says ordinary mind is the way. But what is ordinary?

[16:52]

We talk about big mind and small mind. Small mind is ordinary, but actually, big mind is ordinary. Enlightenment is ordinary. The problem that we have about trying to touch enlightenment is that we think it's extraordinary. And as long as we think it's extraordinary, we can never, we stumble past it. This is called seeking the way. So, Joshua asks Nansen, What is the way? Ordinary mind is the way, replied Nansen, replied. Shall I try to seek for it?

[17:56]

Well, of course we should try to seek for it. But if you seek for it, you become separated from it, because when you seek for it, it becomes something to seek for. It becomes a thing. And what you're seeking for separates you from it. This is why in Zazen, we say no gaining mind. Don't think I am sitting Zazen to become Buddha or sitting Zazen to become enlightened. If you pursue in that way, you stumble past it. we have a lot of dissatisfaction in our life. The first noble truth is usually translated as suffering, but it's more like dissatisfaction.

[19:15]

The dissatisfaction in our life And a dissatisfaction is caused by thinking that what we want is over there or someplace else. It can't be washing the dishes or mopping the floor. So Nansen said, so Joshu asked, shall I seek after it? And Joshu, I'm sorry, shall I seek after it? Joshu asked, if you try for it, you'll become separated from it, responded Nansen. How could I know the way unless I try for it? Persisted Joshu.

[20:18]

And Nansen said, the way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing. Knowing is delusion, not knowing is confusion. So if I don't seek after it, nothing happens. And if I do seek after it, I just become confused. So this is the koana practice. You have to seek for it without seeking. In other words, just practice. The commentator here has a nice sakita. He says, when you are in samadhi, you are simply in samadhi, and your mind is peaceful, there is no seeking after the way and no separation from it. You are neither seeking nor separate.

[21:39]

Usually when we want something, we feel that what we want is someplace out there. And so we go searching for it. But practice is searching for it here. We're never separate from it, but we feel separate. We're never separate from our true self, but we feel separate. This is our problem. If you go seeking for it, it feels like it's out there somewhere. There's something to get. So practice or the way is letting go rather than getting something.

[22:53]

As someone once said, it's like finding a pearl in a pile of shit. The pearl is there, but it's surrounded by this pile of shit. How do you let go of all that so that you can actually see the pearl? Because the pearl is there. What we're looking for is there. What we seek is already there. But we go looking for it someplace else. So, Joe Anonsense says, the way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing. Knowing is delusion, not knowing is confusion.

[24:02]

Realization is not a matter of knowledge. Prajna is not knowledge, it's intuition. So intuition means directly knowing, and directly knowing means there has to be something real that knows. What knows is something real, not acquired. So knowledge is acquired, but intuition is real. It's already something. It's already there. So it's not a matter of knowing or not knowing. It's a matter of realizing our true self.

[25:11]

And when you realize that, you know it. So when you have really reached the true way beyond doubt, you will find that it is vast and boundless, or ungraspable, actually, as outer space. How can it be talked about on the level of right and wrong? With these words, Joshu came to a sudden realization. I want to go back to the question, what is the way? What is the way sounds like a question. But if you take away the question mark, the answer is in the question. So the question, keeping the question is the most important thing. People say, well, how do I practice when I'm not in the zendo? The question is, what is the way?

[26:15]

It's a question, but it's also an answer. Because what's right in front of us is the way. The way is always present wherever we are. But because we think it's someplace else, we don't recognize it. the most ordinary activity. Zen activity, if you go to Ryutaku-ji in Japan, Rinzai Monastery, well-known monastery, the monks all day long are doing nothing but sweeping the ground. Well, I mean, they do other things, too. They cook and have other activities, but their main activity for work during the day is raking and sweeping.

[27:18]

It's not so complicated, but our lives are very complicated, very complex and getting more complex. I mean, look at this thing. It's not complicated. Complex, more and more complex. We have to know so many more things just in order to move, to communicate. Communication used to be pretty simple, just face somebody, you know, and then the telephone came along. Telephone's becoming obsolete. So if we realize, if we feel and realize that our life is a life of practice, and realize that our life is continuous practice, then all the events and problems that we meet

[28:34]

problems of practice. If they're not problems of practice, then they take on a different tone, they're more desperate. But if we realize that practice is at the core of the way we engage all of our activities, meaning Whenever I meet, whatever situation I meet is a practice situation, it becomes very different. Because I realize that every situation is a situation of the way. It's a dharma situation. It's a situation which calls for what? What is practice right here?

[29:41]

What is practice waiting for the light to change? What is practice waiting for the bus to come? What is practice when somebody confronts you and you get angry and you fall into a rage These are all practice situations. And when it's in the realm of practice, it just takes on a different tone. So Mumon's comment, Nansen dissolved and melted away before Joshu's questions and could not offer a plausible explanation. Sounds like Joshu couldn't deal with the situation, but that's not what it means. I mean, Nansen,

[30:47]

Nansen presented him, let everything fall away so that he could present to Joshu the correct response. So Nansen's response was a response without, with his true body. And even though Joshu comes to a realization, he must delve into it for another 30 years before he can fully understand it. So Joshu comes to a realization through nonsense words. But of course, even though he understands this, he has to mature. Often when we give someone a Dharma transmission, they're supposed to go away and mature their realization before they do anything.

[32:12]

That used to happen in China quite a bit when a teacher would say to his student, go up on that mountain and just stay there for 30 years. Don't try to do anything. Just let your practice ensure, and then at some point, people start going up the mountain to study with that person. I know somebody who I was talking to recently who, because they had dormant transmission and set up a place to put out their shingle, was very disappointed because people didn't come. So I said, do you have a garden? Well, yeah, sort of.

[33:18]

I said, just pay attention to your garden and work around your house. And if you take care of your garden, and not worry about whether someone comes or doesn't come, something may happen. Without trying to make something happen, to just take care of your practice, if we just take care of our practice, things happen. Without trying to happen, This ordinary mind, just take care of ordinary mind as practice, ordinary activity as practice. And ordinary activity is extraordinary activity. Within the ordinary activity is the extraordinary activity.

[34:24]

When we wake up, we realize that. This is fantastic, sweeping the floor. What an incredible thing to be doing. But we really want so much. It's not that we can't do complex things and have extraordinary experiences, but The extraordinary is within the ordinary. Muhammad in his verse says, the spring flowers, the autumn moon, summer breezes, winter snow.

[35:28]

These are the four seasons, right? If useless things do not clutter your mind, you have the best days of your life. So what are useless things? useless things are vanity, right? Something that you focus on which doesn't come to anything. So when spring comes, enjoy spring. When winter comes, enjoy winter. It's not just the seasons, it's like whatever comes to us. Whatever comes to us is a we can accept and enjoy, even if we don't like it. How do you turn garbage into compost in your life? Suzuki Roshi said something like, all of our, what we call our,

[36:37]

problems and our things that we don't like and the garbage of our life, we put it in the tree of practice and that makes our practice grow. So there's nothing, everything has value. I wouldn't say value. Everything has virtue. It's a little different. It's incomparable. Every moment, we don't have anything but each moment, and it will never return. So how do we turn every moment into a virtuous moment so that we can see it's, Every moment is an incomparable experience.

[37:54]

And whether we think it's good or bad, a good experience can be wonderful. A bad experience can also be valuable. Matter of fact, what we work with is difficulty. If we know how to work with difficulty, it's not the same. This is called practice. It looks like we don't have time for questions. Okay, we do have time. If you have one. All right. I think what, you know, just asking the question, keep asking the question because there's no formula.

[40:26]

And so what is the way is the question all the time. This is a continual question. Joshua had to deal with it 30 years more, right? So that means it's continuous. It's not like we always have to keep asking this question, and it's only answered every moment on every situation. There's no formula. So if I'm in a certain situation, I say, well, what is the way? I won't say what is the way, but I say, how do I practice in this situation? What does that mean? And then I'm thrown back on myself, because I'm not trying to change the situation. My effort is to get as deeply in myself as I can, to draw as deeply from my well as possible, to deal with situation, and that's the practice.

[41:28]

You just draw it from as deeply as you can, and that helps you to go deeper. That forces you to go deeper, to come up with something that works, that's real. So, you know, it's a great opportunity. And if we think, well, it's so hard to do, that's a kind of obstacle. You know, it's not hard or easy. It seems hard, you know, some things seem easy, but the hard one can draw more satisfaction when you go deeper, because what is satisfying is going deeper, to bring up something that we didn't know we have. Nancy? This might be a little on the small side, but every time you bring up the jewel in the ship, I have to take like five minutes to figure out whether I should be wearing gloves.

[42:43]

what's the metaphor with the gloves, which are essential for getting to the ship. So then, as you went on, then I find I really am enjoying, I'm really being able to connect with what you're saying, but it's that one, is it a metaphor or a simile? Yeah, it's a metaphor. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Don't take things too literally. Yeah. Well, that's the way we are. Yes. A pile of pearl hidden within a pile of pearls. Well, um, Yes.

[44:02]

Yeah. Because everything has its purpose. Everything has its value. The first time you said, if your mind isn't cluttered with useless things, it's the best day of your life. You have the best days of your life. The best days, one at a time. So I've smiled and I love that. And then later you said, what are useless things? Vanity, etc. So vanity or anger or distractions, do you think that is voluntary to not have useless things cluttering your mind? No, it's just when they don't.

[45:08]

I mean, when they do. Oh. It's when they do. I'm not telling you what to do. See, when they don't come to your mind, you have the best days of your life. Oh, then would you tell me what to do? Okay, this is the last one. I'm wondering if, you never say this, but you demonstrate it. Really, what is love? Love is the way. That's how I see it. But love is the wrong word. I just talk about it all the time. You demonstrate it. You don't say it, but you demonstrate it. No, I talk about it. I talk about it too. I talk about it as the four Brahmaviharas.

[46:08]

loving kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity. Equanimity, which is the most valuable one, means you don't let it throw you. Yes. Right, because love is one of those words like, you know, that means anything you want it to mean. So if we stick, if we use the four Brahma-viharas, the reason why those are four aspects of love is because they're not self-indulgent.

[47:05]

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