Good morning. Sound is good? Zoom, yes. Hi there. Everybody on Zoom. Well, day two, Sashin. Here we are. Okay, thank you. Because you don't want to lose these pearls. I'm very honored and happy to be here. I want to first remember Hozon and Ron, keeping them in our hearts, and co-Brian Lux, who I grew up with at Green Gulch. Old age, sickness and death. So they're here. All of you may have someone that you're remembering today, so they're here too.

[01:03]

I'm very honored to be here and thank you very much for welcoming Michelle and me. It may be that a couple people from practice period got bumped because we are here, so we will practice very hard and we'll clean lots of toilets in payment. But we really are happy to be here. Sashin is a very good opportunity, as you know, to express many aspects of this Zen way. We have our sitting, we have cooking and serving, bowing and chanting, eating, going to the bathroom, working, making mistakes, more sitting. So these forms are just a wonderful vehicle to organize our bodies and minds. Just to sort of locate us. And they express our realization that form is no other than emptiness.

[02:13]

And they're also kind of a set up, the forms. They're just kind of helping us. They're a warm up for just being. just a way to get back to ourselves. But it's a lovely dance, and so it's very nice to do it well. And when we stumble, we stumble. And as I think Ross said yesterday, it's not so much, or maybe, I don't know. It's not so much what the situation is when we fall down. It's how we get up with some joy. So you'll hear Sojin's name again in this talk like you are in every talk, which makes me feel warm. He often said, or at least I remember him saying, to let a Dharma talk, especially in Sashin, let a Dharma talk just wash over you.

[03:18]

Don't worry if you remember anything I say or even understood anything I say. We're just being present and together we're unfolding our best effort to see clearly. See clearly. What's going on here? What is this life, right? And what can I do? How can I be to realize this? And why do I need to do that? Just to suffer less and to help each other suffer less. So all these talks, I went to a few of the classes online and I heard Susan's talk the other night, a day, morning. Bringing forth Sojin is just so wonderful. And, you know, I miss him a little less when we sort of gather in his name, as it were. And I want us to remember, or at least it's helping me to remember that Sojin is not just Sojin, right?

[04:22]

Sojin is everybody that made Sojin, right? Suzuki Roshi. Rebecca Maieno, Doug Greiner, you, me. He was him because we were us. We are us. And so in that way, even though he's not there and holds us across the bay, every time I hear the floor creak, I'm in Sachin, doing what we're supposed to do, forgetting and coming back, forgetting, coming back. So it's really great to do this together. And again, I'm really honored. I was very grateful to have been giving an assignment for this talk. I got a section of the book called The Fundamental. But in that section, there's quite a few themes. And I didn't want to present a class or, you know.

[05:27]

Diagrams although I do have one diagram, but it's not from the book It's from a meme, you know one of those late nights when you're scrolling and you're not supposed to be scrolling It's just this meme and it starts out Do you have a problem in life? Yes, no No, then why worry? Yes Can you do something about it? Yes, then why worry? No then why worry? So that's really the theme of this talk. But we're gonna take a little route to get there. So the themes in this part of the book, the fundamental, he talks about unity within diversity, mind refresher cakes, which I can't talk about because I always think of cake, I just think of cake, and I forget about the mind refresher part. So then there's nothing special, Nansen's Ordinary Mind is the Way and Glishan's Dreams.

[06:30]

So I was reading this over and over, circling into what was really speaking to me. And of course, case 19 of the Mumon Khan, Ordinary Mind is the Way. So this is a well-known koan. Most of us are probably familiar with it. It's kind of like one of those nice stories. You're like, let's tell that story again. Let's tell Nansen and Joshu. In the book, when he gave this lecture, he woke up and said, what should I talk about? And he said, I never write my talks. I usually have them worked out. But that morning, he woke up and was like, what am I going to talk about? So he never wrote his talks out, as some of you have seen his books. There's endless scribbles in his books. And one of my favorite things recently was when Hozan gave a talk.

[07:36]

It was his talk based on Sojin's notes in a Suzuki Roshi book. It was like the lineage right there. So I'd like to comment on that talk. No, just kidding. I was once when I was his jishan following him in to give a Saturday lecture. And I don't know why I asked him this because I didn't think I had anything coming up. But I asked him, Sojin, do you ever get nervous before your talk? And it wasn't even a yes or no. It was as if I asked him, do you want potatoes? He just was like, I don't even understand the question. So he said, no, never. So that really upset me and pissed me off. Because for the record, I've given lots and lots of talks and I get nervous before every talk. I get nervous. Whether I write it out, which I usually don't do because you'll see me struggle trying to follow my talk and be with you.

[08:42]

Sometimes I'm excited about my talk. Half the time I barely have an outline. I'm always nervous. I don't know the right way to do this. And I'm sure there's a lot of ego bound up in this, right? It's more, for those of you who know Saturday Night Live from a long time ago, it's better to look good than to feel good. But my practice is to be up here and to let that go and find the transmission. There is a space between you and me right now so that a transmission can happen, but we're doing it together. So ordinary mind is the way. This is a story that features two great Zen masters, Nanshuan, or Nansen, and Jiaojou, Joshu. Nansen is the master, and in this story, Jiaojou, Joshu, is a young student. He's maybe 20. He's just as old as my son. He's very young, and I don't know how long he's been practicing, but he comes to his teacher with a question.

[09:50]

It's really our question, right? It's all of our question. What is the way? It's a worthy question. And it's a great way to start a very pithy koan, right? Like, what is the way? Oak tree in the garden, end of story. But no, we get a whole story with this one. We like this one. What is the Tao? You know, how should I practice? Why am I practicing? What is it that I'm looking for? I think this is a really good question for Sushin because it's a little about now or maybe after lunch that you'll be like, why am I doing this? What am I looking for? So I have to tell you a story about this koan. This koan, there's a reason why I chose it, but I don't know why it chose me.

[10:54]

Susan, did you assign these sections? Okay, maybe you know something about my history that I didn't know you know. But the first time I was assigned this koan, I had moved away. So some of you don't even know me, and so thank you for your kind attention. And others of you know me all too well. I've been gone for 25 years. Some of you have been practicing here for that long. I had, it was 1999 or 2000, I was living in LA and I had started a job. and they did not feel equal to that job. It was in a fancy university elementary school, and I was with all these great teachers who were doing all kinds of things, like teaching kids to count in base five. You know. And I was lonely. I was married, but I was lonely. And I was missing here, and I was hurting, and I was talking to him.

[11:55]

I was reaching for a way to feel better. what we often call how do I practice? So first he gave me an image because I was talking to him about I was missing something and he said you're like a person standing in a river calling out for water. So that's the image of us grasping and seeking. We're in a river, we're calling out for water. So then he gave me this koan. He said read this koan and write to me about it. I read it. Mostly I read Aiken Roshi's commentary. And I wrote about it. I wrote to him about it. And he wrote back to me. And we had this lovely exchange, which I think I have a hard copy of somewhere, but I couldn't find. We had a really nice connection over this koan. I'm not saying I understood it. I just mean I met my teacher, like Joshu met his teacher.

[12:56]

Sojun was very good to me in keeping me close long distance. When I was in LA, I started to go to Zen Center of Los Angeles, and Bernie Glassman was gone by then, and Yoku Roshi, Wendy Nakao, was the abbot there, was the abbot there. And I went to Doka-san with her, I thought, let's see what this is like. And what do you know? She said, Case 19 of the Mumong Khan. What is the way? Go study it and come back and share your understanding. I thought, okay. So that lineage has a little bit of Rinzai going on and it certainly does in the Dokusan room. So I got rung in, I went in, I bowed, I presented the koan and you have to recite the whole koan. So it's like a short story, you know? And then I waited, and she said, how do you understand this?

[13:57]

And I took a breath in to speak, and she rang me out more than once. So I didn't get very far with this koan with Wendy, with Egyoku Roshi. So that was my second encounter with this koan. And then years later, when I visited here, I've done my best to stay in touch here, to come and do sashim. I did a few practice periods. Early on, I was in Dokusan. I don't know if he remembered or not, but he gave me the koan again. So clearly, I have some work to do. With this koan, what is the way? This koan has great utility. If you never know what to practice with, use this koan. I'm giving it to you. So here it is, fourth time with this koan. Oh, and by the way, the way we do koans in Bozeman now, Michelle and I, practice in Bozeman and we have someone who has practiced with Joan Sutherland.

[14:59]

Some of you may know of her. She has been, she's come up with koan salons. So they're like a way to enjoy koans, write poetry about them, think about your dreams, let images come, like let the koan work on you and there's no right or wrong. And so we've been doing this a little bit and it's really wonderful because sometimes we use koans that are not koans, like we use a Walt Whitman poem or something. So you can use anything to organize your presence. So I want you to, I invite you to enjoy this story. What is the way? Joshua needs to know. So Nansen answers, ordinary mind is the way. But Joshu continues because he doesn't know what that means, I guess. He has this great need. He has a spiritual longing or maybe he is just upset.

[16:03]

Maybe he hates it where he is. Shall I direct myself toward it or not? What is the way? Ordinary mind is the way. Shall I go for it? Shall I set myself toward it? Sojin has a great thing leading up to this in the book. What did I say? 192. He says, he's talking about how much Suzuki Roshi wasn't interested in so much in enlightenment but more about practice and emphasizing enlightenment can sometimes lead us off the path and that emphasizing practice is the most useful thing. If you practice, enlightenment is there. But if you start worrying about enlightenment, you tend to neglect what's in front of you. So let's say it's a hot day and you really want an ice cream cone or whatever. Your thought goes to the ice cream cone and you find your way to the ice cream store and you get your ice cream cone, but you don't think so much about how you got there.

[17:12]

You don't think about each step that takes you to the store. So in a sense, you're going after the prize. Until you get the prize, your present activity is in the background and your idea of the prize is in the foreground. Your effort to get to the store is because you want the prize. But when we get the prize, it's over. And then you have to get the prize again and again and again. And this is how human beings live their lives, our lives. Just going for the thing to soothe us in the moment, or in a bigger sense, a job, a relationship. So it doesn't really work. So what is the way? Well, ordinary mind is the way. Well, shall I go for it? Shall I go for the ice cream, Sojin says? Shall I go for the relationship? Shall I study this thing?

[18:15]

So Dogen has transmitted to us practice enlightenment. We're so lucky. We're so lucky that we're not hung up on enlightenment. And if you are, we can disabuse you of that notion here and now. Right? It's about practice because I'll tell you why later. Trying to stay focused. A little ADD going on here. The journey to the ice cream cone is equal to the ice cream cone. In fact, it's better. It's more worthy. It's where we should be living. Our journey to the ice cream cone. Because the journey continues. The ice cream cone, as we know, does not. The craving will always return. I want something else. I want something else. Shall I direct myself toward it? Then Nansan says, if you go for it, you go away from it.

[19:27]

If you go for it, you become separated from it. If you go for it, you become separated from it. Solzhen likes the translation, if you go for it, you stumble past it. I like that too, because we always end up and a bit of a tizzy falling down. Why didn't this work out? I reach, but I miss because I'm reaching, because it's not over here, right? It's not there. It's here, but it's also here. It's here. When you direct yourself, you set up a division, right? We know this, yet we can sit with that very tendency, with that craving as it arises and see it for what it is and not fall for it.

[20:30]

Can we do this? Can we not fall for it? Because we keep thinking that we're supposed to not have the craving arise. We keep making this mistake that purify means nothing's there. Purify, I believe, means being in right relationship with it. Craving keeps happening. I keep getting nervous before talks. I still want to do a good job. I also want to be of use. You know, I want to add value. There's some sincerity there as well as grasping. Sometimes that's how we do relationship. We extend to the other when we need to stay here and then we stay here when we need to extend because we're always looking to satisfy this instead of satisfy this. When we satisfy this, it includes I'm not left out.

[21:35]

So it's never about being so generous that you don't participate, that you don't come alive. It's certainly about me. It's certainly about you. But you can't do it by yourself. Sojin wasn't Sojin without Maylee Scott or Gwitsu or Nancy. So Joshua asked the exact right next question. How can I know the way if I don't go for it? How can I know the way if I don't go for it? Don't we need to make effort? I mean, so many years after acquiring this outfit,

[22:43]

I'm still struggling with it. I'm still making effort to make it nice, make it right, express practice realization. And my goal is to have the robes hang right so that I embody something. Don't I do that? Don't I nurture my intention to express what Sojin transmitted to me? How can I know the way? Well, nonsense says the way is not a matter of knowing and not knowing. So it's great. It's like, oh, good question, but wrong question. It's a good question, but it's not the question that will help you. The way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing. Knowing is a kind of illusion. So I look all nice and pretty and it's kind of a... It's kind of a joke, right? It's kind of like a show.

[23:44]

It's a delusion. It's magic. But not knowing is a kind of ignorance, confusion. You want the robe to stay on, right? You want to be in a relationship. It's very sweet as humans how badly we want to know. It's so tender. how much we really want to get it. And I think we want to get it not just because we want to be special, but because we really want to soothe this really aching situation. And we want to help each other soothe an aching situation. Life is really, really hard most of the time, right? Most things don't work out. Think of the things that are aching in you right now. Consider them.

[24:44]

Consider what is sort of the thorn right now for you. We want to make meaning. We want things to mean something. And in a way, they do. They mean something because we ascribe it. I was once taught this, and I don't know how I feel about it, but I'll give it to you and see what you think about it. Life is empty and meaningless. And the fact that life is empty and meaningless is empty and meaningless. We make too much of it. But that's what we do, and it's very, very wonderful that we do it because we're trying to help each other.

[25:48]

Anyone who's raised a kid knows that it's important to transmit something and help them make some meaning out of what's going on. My son just... He just... I think he quit this job. No, I think he got fired. I'm not sure what happened. He didn't work for a year because he had a hurt shoulder. And then during that year, while we were trying to figure out why he couldn't get his GED because he dropped out of high school during COVID. And so he worked for a while as a sushi chef and then he hurt himself and then he didn't work for a while. And I kept doing this and I was like, why? This kid is so bright. Why can he not follow, like, do these two things? No, no. So then we found out about some neuro issues. And any of you who have been studying any of this, maybe we're all learning there's no such thing as neurotypical anymore.

[26:51]

And I want to really give a shout out to ADD, to autism, to borderline, to all these things that are in our brain. that are the way we are and the culture is not helping right now. So anyway, he finally got a job helping this guy doing HVAC work, which I thought would be perfect for him because it's hands on and he has to learn things like you have to program electrical things so that the thermostat works and you have to drill things so that the What do you call it? The cult. Duct. Duct. It stays in place. Duct is a terrible word. Duct. It's just one I reject. Duct. It's like clothes. You can see how I've been spending my thoughts. Sojin once said, and this really, really helped me, he said, I'm just sitting enjoying my thoughts.

[27:57]

Is that great? Just enjoy ducked. Okay, so this guy did not know how to run a business. And so Yujin, he knew a lot about Ajak, but he did not know how to run a business. Day by day, we didn't know when he was going to work. He didn't know what was going on. And Yujin at this great age is like so black and white moralistic. It's like this guy, and this is what's wrong with him, and this is like that. And it was great. He wasn't wrong. And my job was to, I didn't want to talk him out of it. I just wanted him to temper it like he thought the guy had a drug problem. He might be right, you know. But I was helping him temper what might be going on for this guy. He clearly wants to run this business and make a living, you know. But then the guy sent a text out to his three people and said, you're all fired. I can't do this anymore. So this guy was clearly not in his adult mode, and Eugene decided not to go back.

[29:04]

I give him a lot of credit for that. He knew his way. He knew his way. So if you go for it, you go away from it. If you go for it, you become separated from it. You have to find something very, very intimate. We have to watch when we set up a division. and when we think there's a state of mind better than the one we're in. So the way is not a matter of knowing or not knowing. Knowing is a kind of delusion and not knowing is a kind of ignorance. So having some tenderness and compassion for our yearning, for our wanting to understand, to be at peace, and to have some compassion for the fact that we might be hurting and struggling, and that doesn't mean anything about us. So Nansen is so generous, and he gives Joshu a great gift.

[30:10]

When you reach the true way beyond all doubt, you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space. When you reach the true way beyond all doubt, you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space. Kind of sounds like he's talking about it's out there, right? How can it be talked about on the level of right or wrong? How can it be this or that? How can we be separated from it? We are in outer space. It's very good to remember that. It's very good to remember that we are in outer space. That we are in this vast, boundless situation. And the way we take care of it is in this individual life. Taking care of my son, learning about HVAC, remembering Sojin, showing up to give a talk when I'm nervous.

[31:15]

Nonsense says that when you reach the true way beyond all doubt, you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space. How could it be reduced to right and wrong, to this and that, to here and there? So, of course, Joshu wakes up just like all of you are right now. We're all awake right now. But it will take Joshu, right, another 30 years to confirm it. That's really great. I think that's probably where Dogen learned practice realization. That's why we're here, because you're already enlightened. Suzuki Roshi emphasized practice. Sojin Roshi emphasized practice. How we show up, how we relate, how we over and over express this. I'm missing something, hold on.

[32:20]

Oh, okay. So I wanted to talk a little bit about ordinary because Sojin is often described as being ordinary, meaning he wasn't fancy, he wasn't dramatic, he wasn't more or less, he had his moments. But he wasn't, he didn't show off. He didn't perform. The person I was married to, one of the reasons he left was because Sojin wasn't exciting enough. Some of you know the excitement we went for and how that worked out. No, it didn't work out. So the ordinary doesn't mean commonplace. or mundane, or boring. And Sojin's ordinary doesn't mean that either.

[33:27]

It means constant. It means eternal. It means the natural order of mind. How our mind is, not before thoughts come, but before we think it matters that thoughts are there. See the distinction? The thoughts are gonna be there. The aching is going to be there, the yearning is going to be there. It's what we do with it. So before that, natural order, okay. Ducked, right? Okay, that's my natural order of mine. It's just doing what it does, it's okay. It's what I do with that. It's not getting consumed by it. So getting old really helps for those of you who are young. It doesn't help actually, like it hurts, but it's better in some ways. I just don't have the energy to get so taken away by things. So is it wisdom or is it just aging?

[34:31]

But it's kind of like physics. Ross mentioned chemistry yesterday. I was thinking more like physics. You know, you can't argue with physics, right? I love that bumper sticker. Gravity, it's not just a good idea. It's the law, you know? It's the law. Things are the way they are. It's very good to bow down to them, to pay attention to how things are. If you're mean to someone, they're gonna get hurt. They may retaliate. It's physics. It's the way it is, so be careful. You have all had some realization that's why you're here. Consider the enlightenment you already possess. First I asked you to consider your aching heart. Now consider your enlightenment. Bear together. Your being in relationship with that aching heart is your enlightenment. Me here with my leg that went to sleep and my missing my dog and

[35:35]

And I miss my son too. It's okay. Aiken Roshi says this wonderful thing in his commentary. We have this realization and now we're going to practice for 30 or 50 or 100 years to stabilize it, to refresh it, to continue it, to support it. He said, Aiken Roshi said, depending on enlightenment, depending on enlightenment experiences to make your life good is like relying on the honeymoon to sustain the marriage. Isn't that great? A week in Paris. 30 years when you snort, right? It's really, that's a wonderful example. It's like the experience is like, it's so precious. You've all had it. You may not realize it. but you have, you wouldn't be in this room.

[36:37]

One of the things I was the most nervous about was the timing of this because I don't like to practice my talks. And I recently had to give an eight minute talk, which is way harder than a 40 minute talk. Eight minutes to... And I found out that basically you should consider if you're speaking at a normal pace without meaningful Zen pauses, that you speak at about 150 words a minute. So eight minutes is 1,200 words. So this was supposed to be like 40 minutes. It was like 6,000 words. And I only have about 3,000. So the meaningful Zen pauses are here for a reason. Kencho, enlightenment is your inspiration to continue practice. That's the good news and the bad news. We should all remember that our suffering doesn't mean something's wrong.

[37:52]

I mean, can you do something about it? Yes, then why worry? Can you do something about it? No, then why worry? This is where we realize that this practice is about joy and love and compassion. But the forms are here to sort of keep us from just going off, right? I'm moving, some of you know I'm moving to San Antonio and I'm going to be the teacher at the San Antonio Zen Center. So I've been visiting there and Colin Gibson was the teacher there for 10 years and he does what he calls a no floor show sesheen. No floor show. No service. No lecture, no oryoki. Just sit. We get a little bit of bowing. No floor show. It's really hard. We don't get any chance to look around and go, oh, the way that person serves, or, oh, this food, or, oh, the way that person loves.

[39:02]

That's our entertainment, right? No entertainment, sashim. But that's... All of those things in the form give us this opportunity, one, to see what's going on and then see how we really believe it and think, no, no, they really should be serving this way. I know how it goes. Believe me, I was the queen of forms. And now I just, I care. I want it to be beautiful. I want it to hold us. And I think mistakes are just part of it. Just a wonderful part of it. So, we can imagine our hours of sitting and bowing and cooking and falling down and getting up as the marriage. We are nurturing our already realized heart and mind. Okay. Now, what I want to say is this koan has been with me for a long time.

[40:07]

Not yet. Five minutes? Okay, thank you. I did pretty good. When you reach the true way beyond all doubt, you will find it as vast and boundless as outer space. That line I used to throw away. Oh, I don't know what that, that's just, you know, I was like ordinary mind is the way. No, now this is what I'm working with. I'm on a planet. It's vast, it's boundless. I have I have this huge life given to me and it's going to express itself in very prescribed ways. That's really encouraging. Regardless of how I feel, whatever my emotion is, whatever my craving is, the way, the true way is beyond all doubt. You can't get away from it. So this is where faith comes into Buddhist practice. So now I'm going to read you a little something from Truong Tzu, if I'm saying his name right. He's from the fourth century before the common era.

[41:08]

Laurie and I are in a little study group. And he's at the time of Confucius and these warring states of the Chu dynasty. And he is really funny. When we started, I didn't understand anything. And I can't say I still do, that I do now, but I sort of enjoy the metaphors. Okay, so the way has its reality and its signs, but it is without action or form. You can hand it down, but you cannot receive it. You can get it, but you cannot see it. It's its own source, its own root. Before heaven and earth existed, it was there, firm from ancient times. It gave spirituality to the spirits and to God. It gave birth to heaven and earth. It exists beyond the highest point, and yet you cannot call it lofty. It exists beneath the limit of the six directions, and yet you cannot call it deep. It was born before heaven and earth, and yet you cannot say it has been there for long.

[42:12]

It is earlier than the earliest time, and yet you cannot call it old." So this is our broad avenue of fulfilled spiritual purpose. And what Sojin goes on to say, is that the way we practice is Samadhi. He says Samadhi is no selfishness, no self-centeredness. He says there's no self-centeredness in any of this. What is it that takes the place of self-centeredness? Samadhi. Samadhi takes the place of self-centeredness because it brings everything together. Samadhi literally means concentration, But it's not a state of mind. It's not a special state of mind. It's when your mind is not attaching to anything. So when we concentrate, we may have a laser focus, counting our breaths. We may have a wider focus, body scan.

[43:14]

We may just be enjoying our thoughts, like Sojin says. But we may have a samadhi of activity, washing the dishes, serving. But what we get to do is infuse our wisdom and our enlightenment in our samadhi. So what is the way vast and boundless is outer space and is concentrated as a laser? We need both. Okay. So I'll end. I'm ending. Okay. I'm ending. with the verse that woman gave us, woman, woman. How to enjoy your ordinary mind is the verse. Spring comes with flowers, autumn with the moon, summer with breeze, winter with snow. When idle concerns don't hang in your mind, that is your best season.

[44:16]

Spring comes with flowers, autumn with the moon, Summer with breeze, winter with snow. When idle concerns don't hang in your mind, that is your best season. So today, we'll let our idle concerns come and go. Don't worry that they're there. Just don't let them hang. That is samadhi. In this book, Sojin is extremely generous in what he offers us and how to practice, just like Nansen was with Joshu. He just gave him his heart. And then Joshu went on for another 30 years. He actually went on for another 100 years. He apparently lived to like 120 or something. So any part of that koan you want to sit with today? What is the way? Vast, boundless, not knowing. You can sit with any part of it. And I'll end with this. Chong Su says, a fish

[45:22]

Trap is for catching fish. Once you've caught the fish, you can forget about the trap. A rabbit snare is for catching rabbits. Once you've caught the rabbit, you can forget about the snare. Words are for catching ideas. Once you've caught the idea, you can forget about the words. Where can I find a person who knows how to forget about words so that I can have a few words with her? Why worry?

[45:58]

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