Then a trading land, perfect Domo, Israeli, met with even a hundred thousand million Kalpas, having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I vow to taste the truth of the Tatagata's words. Good morning. Is this all right? Is this working loud enough? Okay. My name is Mary Drea. I've been around this place for a while. I want to welcome all of you to today, and this is the first day of our Aspects. Aspects is a four-week study period, a fall study period, that has led...

[01:00]

mainly by senior students, and the reason it's called Aspects is because we try to take some aspect of our practice to go deeper into. Thank you to Linda for inviting me to talk, and thank you to Jerry who invited us to study the Sandokai. She invited us to study the Sandokai for the Tassahara Third Week. And I always liked the Sandokai, but I really fell in love with it. And we really wanted to continue it on into the aspect period. So in a minute, I'd like us to say the Sandokai together so you have a sense... if you haven't chanted it, you know, forever, that you have a sense of what we're talking about.

[02:01]

And Dan and Judy, maybe you could quietly pass out chant books while I continue to give some sort of introductory comments. Thanks. So, the Sandokai is a poem written by Sekhi Tomo, who lived between 700 and 790 Common Era. Is this going in and out? What does that mean? Just go ahead. Okay. Where was I? We chant this on Friday mornings, I think, still, right? And we chanted at Founders Ceremony. And the book that we're using is based on 12 lectures that Suzuki Roshi gave in the last year of his life.

[03:06]

And there is some rumor going around that that's what happens. People teach this in the last year of their life. So we're hoping that's not actually true. He gave 12 lectures at Tassajara. This is in it to Blue Jays and the Sound of the Creek and other things that are quite to the hearts of those who love Tassajara. So the title, Sandokai, is three characters, or three words anyway. There might be more characters. San, in Japanese actually means three, but it also refers to difference or diversity, variety, and basically the phenomenal aspect of our life, what we think of as conventional reality of things and people and objects and words and concepts and all of that.

[04:14]

Do is pointing at sameness. or equality, or commonality, or universality, or at least that's how it's translated in the poem, but we have a lot of other words that point in that direction, like oneness and emptiness and so forth. Kai means promise or agreement, and this is the word friendship or relationship to describe Kai. In ancient times, in ancient Chinese times, Kai was a tally sheet in which people would write down their sides of an agreement and then they would go away and accomplish those two sides and come back together and reunite the two sides when the contract or the agreement was fulfilled. It's a...

[05:21]

a poem constructed of a series of couplets and each addresses some aspect of this relationship between San and Do, the Kai of San and Do. You'll hear it, you'll hear San variously referred to in the poem as branching streams or objects of the senses or the four elements. trunk and branches. Light is often used to describe things in the conventional world because differences are apparent when light shines on them. You can see individuals clearly in the light. Words, myriad things, standards. Those are all kinds of terms that the Sandhuakai uses for that. Do is... referred to as well one is right in the opening line the mind of the great sage of India spiritual source dark and dark because in the dark it's hard to see the differences between things and in the absolute dark you can't see the differences at all there's oneness of everything roots

[06:50]

essence, principle. And you might look for Kai, you might look for the words interacting, involvement, sharing, joining, meeting. So with that, and I think this is the cue for the tech host to share screen, so I think you have that. Probably I should have a coffee, too, just for grins. Thanks. Okay, it's on page four. The mind of the great sage of India is intimately transmitted from west to east, while human faculties are sharp or dull. The way has no northern or southern ancestors. The spiritual source shines clear in the light. The branching streams flow on in the dark.

[07:53]

Grasping at things is surely delusion. According with sameness is still not enlightenment. All the objects of the senses interact and yet do not. Interacting brings involvement. Otherwise, each keeps its place. Sights vary in quality and form. Sounds differ as pleasing or harsh. Refined and common speech come together in the dark. Clear and murky phrases are distinguished in the light. The four elements return to their natures just as a child turns to its mother. Fire heats, wind moves, water wets, earth is solid, eye and sights, ear and sounds, nose and smells, tongue and tastes, Thus, with each and everything, depending on these roots, the leaves fled forth. Trunk and branches share the essence.

[08:54]

Revered and common, each has its speech. In the light there is darkness, but don't take it as darkness. In the dark there is light, but don't say it as light. Light and darkness oppose one another, like front and back foot and walking. Each of the myriad things has its merit expressed according to function and place. Phenomena exist. Box and lid fit. Principle responds. Narrow points meet. Hearing the words understand the meaning. Don't set up standards of your own. If you don't understand the way right before you, how will you know the path as you walk? Progress is not a matter of view, but if you are confused, mountains and rivers block your way. I respectfully urge you to study the mystery. Do not pass your days and nights in vain.

[09:58]

So the... Liturgy. That must be hearing. Recording. So, talking about translation.

[11:07]

Is this on? Okay. Right to my mouth, there you go. So, another translation that I'm going to go back and forth with, this one, is a Cleary translation that Okamaru uses in this book, Living by Vau. He talks about a number of different aspects of our literature, and this is the Sandokai is chapter 7. I found this extremely accessible. I recommend it. And then, of course, These lectures were given in 1970. So what was Suzuki using is an interesting question. And someone posed that and I sort of did another dive into the book. And it turns out that the editors of the talks, Sojin, Mel, and Michael Wenger, used Suzuki's description of the various kanji.

[12:14]

He was actually using kanji on a chalkboard and describing the kanji so they use that to put together a third version which is in the back of the branching streams which is this which i would call the suzuki translation so far as we configure then we might Okay, is that all right? For now. So, beginning at the... The mind of the great sage of India... ...has no northern or southern ancestors. That's the Soto Shu. Cleary's, tiny bit different, has some interesting changes.

[13:16]

the mind of the great sage of India is intimately communicated between east and west. People's faculties may be keen or dull, but in the path, there are no southern or northern ancestors. Suppose, as far as we know, the the more historically accurate one. So this refers to a debate between the northern and southern schools of Zen at the time that Sekito was alive. And those northern or southern schools were identified with gradual and sudden enlightenment. That's one of the divisions, but there were other differences. And there was something of a not very friendly debate between the schools, about who is right, evidently.

[14:23]

Because the purpose of this poem is Sekito saying to people, enough. You're fighting over words. You're not actually fighting about the true Dharma that underlies the words. But I get ahead of myself. So how did that come about? Well, the fifth ancestor, according to the apocryphal story, was looking for a successor. And in his wisdom, I say that ironically, he set up a contest for his monks to compete with one another about who had the best understanding. And to do that, they were to write a poem of their understanding. And to their wisdom, most of the monks declined. the offer to compete and left it to the head monk. So he was the only one who wrote a poem and he wrote it on the wall. Also living in the monastery was a fellow by the name of Eno and he was, this is a fact I just learned, a lay person.

[15:36]

Interesting. And he was illiterate and he had heard the Diamond Sutra chanted in the street and became suddenly enlightened and went and found a monastery to start practicing. So he comes along and gets somebody to translate the poem or read the poem to him that Jinshu has written, the head monk, and thinks he can do better, and he tells the translator or the reader to write his poem on the wall. When the fifth ancestor compares the poem, he thinks that Eno's poem is deeper. It goes deeper. And then he does the next wisdom thing, I say it ironically again. He gives transmission in the middle of the night. He gives his bowls and robes to Enno in the middle of the night and says, you know, this is going to cause some trouble, and so you should leave. And so off he goes to start his own practice somewhere.

[16:43]

That's the apocryphal story. What is more likely to have happened is that... Let's see if I have the right page here. Is that there were multiple schools. They all had slightly different understandings. And the most significant misunderstanding was between the northern and the southern schools. Now, what's interesting is that Sekito is the... Dharma grandson of the sixth ancestor, Eno. So he's in the Southern School, the Southern Enlightenment School, which you can kind of tie into Eno having been enlightened by just hearing something, right? Kind of makes sense. And without going into the poem, Jinju's poem was a lot about practice of delusion, from the dust of delusion kind of poem. And so that clearly is kind of a gradual, you've got to do the work kind of school.

[17:46]

And that someone who is even a disciple after, a successor after Sekito, was worried about Enno's status as the six ancestors, and that's how they think that the apocryphal story got written, like 100 years later. to explain why he's really the sixth ancestor, not Jinshu. But back to the poem and Sekito, what Sekito says in his understanding is that what underlies both schools and all traditions is one mind, the one mind teaching. which actually dates back to the third century, like 200 or so, in a document called Awakening of Faith and Mahayana.

[18:48]

And it's interesting to note that that document has a direct through line to Sekito, to Dogen, and there's a thousand years in between Dogen and Awakening and Faith. And one mind has two aspects. One aspect of mind is the absolute or suchness, and the other is phenomena or samsara, nirvana and samsara, but they aren't two, they're one. They're completely interpenetrated with one another. So it's actually more accurate to say that we have two ways of looking or experiencing or seeing the one reality. You can look at it from two different angles, if you will, but it's still one reality. There are some difficulties inherent in that san or differences in phenomena, the phenomenal world, easy to talk about because words and concepts are embedded in the phenomenal world.

[20:02]

As soon as you try to talk about do, you've already gone into the phenomenal world, you've already gone into the, by using words. It is describing, just go out again. Back. So, in response, Nagarjuna, who is writing in the Common Era 200 or so, says all words for do are provisional. Just know that there are words that point to something, but they aren't actually the thing. And what I find kind of useful in the Sandokai is, at least in the Chinese that Sekiro is using, he uses the word ji, ji, for the phenomenal world, and the word ri, ri, for the absolute end.

[21:05]

What's helpful for me about it is that it takes away all the nuances of the English, like emptiness has a bunch of other freight associated with it, so does the absolute. I mean, there's no word that we've actually settled on that kind of gets it all. But if you have something like ri, it can be, I mean, because Chinese is not my language, so maybe that's why it makes it easier. So Kai, the two aspects or the relationship between these two aspects. Moving on. The spiritual source shines clear in the light. The branching streams flow on in the dark. But wait a minute. Wait. Didn't we just say the spiritual source is associated with the dark? No. and branching streams is associated with the light. So what's happening here?

[22:07]

I think this is Segeti's way of saying this is happening. They're totally merged. Okamura uses the word merged. I'm not fond of that word, but it's like that. It's one reality. So maybe... one way of restating those two lines is even in the light, spiritual source shines. Even in the particulars, one can see the source. So sometimes after a day of sitting, you step out on the porch and those trees are luminous, they look different. than they did before. And so sometimes you can get sparks or hints of source in the experience of the phenomenal world.

[23:11]

I think that's what he's saying. And even in the dark, even in the dark, We still exist individually, uniquely, unimpeded. The branching streams flow unimpeded. You don't lose your individuality in the dark. It's still there. So he goes on to kind of continue this turning. Grasping at things is surely delusion. According with sameness is still not enlightenment. That's the Soto-Shu version. The Cleary version is grasping things is basically delusion. Merging with principles is still not enlightenment. Now, this is a really interesting idea to me because, well, let me see if I can explain. I mean, the first part seems obvious.

[24:16]

To cling to individuality is delusion. That seems more clear. to merge with principle, to transcend individuality and become one with unity, still is an enlightenment. Now, I lived for a long time thinking that it was. I don't know about you. But, you know, there is a kind of common view that, I mean, I don't ascribe to this stepwise path, but I think sort of secretly, I thought, well, there might be one step. there might be the step between not enlightened and enlightened, right? And it would be different. If I were enlightened, wouldn't I feel different? Wouldn't I be oceanic all the time? Or I don't know, maybe. So I was very happy to hear that it's not so simple. Neither individuality nor unity is enlightenment.

[25:21]

So what does it mean then to sit in zazen? Well, if you don't lose your individuality, what are you doing? And Okamura is suggesting that what you're doing is you're dropping egocentricity. But that doesn't take away your individuality and your uniqueness. With this body and mind we sit in both individuality and universality. And when we do that it is bringing awareness I think into each moment of both aspects to operate with some connection

[26:26]

with prajna and with conventional nitty-gritty getting-through-the-world operation at the same time. At the same time. And when we do that, I think when we do that together, then something something harmonious happens that sometimes branches or touches the miraculous. It's both skillful and miraculous at the same time. This is like arrow points meeting, and this is later in the poem, but that refers to a story about an archery master being challenged by his head student Because his head student thought, I'm better.

[27:28]

I want to prove to him I'm better. So they set up a contest, and they shoot at each other. Instead of one of them dying, the error points meet. And that participates in both skill, because both of them are highly skilled, but also something else, like something that we can't describe, maybe. but we can feel it. Suzuki's translation is that if you don't practice in your everyday life as you walk, how can you know the way? So this requires us to go deeply into our individuality, to not bypass our own suffering, our own feelings, our own idiosyncrasies, and so forth.

[28:41]

I mean, one way of thinking about it is that if we focus on one side or other, we are either caught in delusion, if we focus on one side, Or on the other side, we are caught in a sort of idea that everything is fine, okay, without acknowledging the suffering, without letting ourselves fully experience and deal with face the suffering of the world. And that, I mean, one thing that could be called is spiritual bypassing. Yeah. Even within Zazen, individuality is not lost. So this is Okamura. This is my practice. No one else can sit for me. My sitting is mine alone, and yet within this sitting practice, we let go of our egocentricity.

[29:50]

Practice is my own individual practice, and enlightenment is universal. There is no separation between my enlightenment and your enlightenment, but practice is individual. I thought that was a nice distinction. He said, I cannot practice for you. But now we're moving into, for me, one of the turning moments, I guess, of studying the Sandakai, in which Suzuki begins to talk about difference, and he talks about difference as meaning equality, equaling, difference equals equality, is the same in Buddhism, which is not... how the world around us thinks about it, I think.

[30:57]

I think it's safe to say. Suzuki says, things have equal value because they are different. To be different is to have value. In this sense, all things have equal and absolute value. So that gave me kind of a long... pause, like how does he get there from here or here from there? And what I came to is that it is because we are unique, each of us is a unique manifestation. There is no one else like you. There is no other person like you in the world. There is no other elm tree or Or oak tree exactly like the trees that are around us. They are a unique manifestation of their species. And you can't be replaced.

[32:00]

And therefore you can't be compared. You have created your own category. You are an absolute value. A stand-alone value. So I'm going to skip now toward the end of the poem to the phrase, each of the myriad things has its merit. That's each of the myriad things has its merit. That's Suzuki's saying. Each thing has its value. Expressed according to function and place. This is the cleary. All things have their function and It is a matter of use in the appropriate situation. And the one at the back of the book that Suzuki was going by, everything, all beings, have their own value.

[33:13]

You should know how to apply this truth. So, appropriate situation means place. in Japanese. And the deep part of this teaching that touches me deeply because I can explain why, but it means that each of us has to find the best place to use this unique person. The skills and knowledge and whatever wisdom that each of us has needs to find its rightful place. And the box and lid fit is talking about that. It's talking about finding your right place that is yours. And that means being thoroughly you. It's, you know, that old phrase, when you are you, Zen is Zen. Well, that sort of starts to make more sense to me in light of this poem, actually.

[34:20]

Each of us, has a place and we have to find our appropriate situation that matches us. It's not that we have to turn ourselves into some kind of pretzel to fit. And I think one of the reasons that this has deep meaning for me is that I... Let me... So I went around as a young person, and certainly it's a koan that I've continued on into adulthood, feeling like I was on the wrong side of the glass, feeling like you're going by a house where there's Thanksgiving dinner and they're on the inside and you're on the outside. I had that feeling, like I didn't fit. And I'm not the only person that has that kind of feeling, I know. And it's a painful feeling.

[35:22]

It's the kind of feeling where you come to a place like this and other people say, oh, I felt at home right away. Not me. I had to work to feel like I had a place. And I was, I mean, the thing that moved me just now is that the name that Sojin gave me in the first name is Honkyo, which means original home. And I was so encouraged and reassured by that. Oh, I'm caring. I can come home. We're coming home to ourselves. And that's what this means. That's what I'm reading this. And further, a further elaboration of it is that this is not an individual project. This is a group project because we need... of finding, of expressing our calling, if you will, or our needs and our skills in what we do, and have that match the situation that we're in and have the situation we're in, and I'm calling that, and recognize and see the need and the skill,

[36:46]

I mean, that's the whole approach of giving people positions, like what's going to help them work their edge, or are we going to use their expertise? You know, how do we think about that? And how do we as the position holders think about it? Are we learning something? Are we giving something? Is it an offering? I mean, it's all of those. And it's a dance that we do together to find a harmonious place for everyone. It's also what I would imagine to be a wonderful model for how the world ought to work. So phenomena exist, box and lid joining, like box and lid joining, principal accords like arrow points meeting. That's a Sotoshu. Phenomena exist like box and cover joining, principal accords like arrow points meeting.

[37:48]

That's the cleary. Things and emptiness are like a container and its cover fitting together. That's Suzuki, like arrow points head on. It also helps me understand something, the kind of turning words that are koan, that Sojan inadvertently gave me in a Shosan ceremony, I asked him a question. I've said this before, so I apologize if you've heard it. The question was, why is it that when I look up at the sky at night and I see how vast it is and how mysterious and how incredible and how every point of light... is actually representing a different point in time.

[38:49]

So it's a kaleidoscope of time. Why is it relieving instead of terrifying to feel so small? And he said, that's cooperating with the universe. So I think that's what this last point is about, is how we cooperate. with the universe. That's my current read on it anyway. And I say, and I'm running out of here, so I have no idea what time it is. We probably have a lot of time. Seven minutes? So please give me your thoughts, comments, and questions. Thank you so much for your talk and your introduction to this aspect.

[40:07]

I guess I'm going to pick up right where you dropped it. So how do you cooperate with the universe? How do you relate to things in this way? As I said, it's a koan. I've been trying to figure this out for a long time, and I'd be interested in what comes to your mind about it. I think the most concrete way that it manifests itself for me is there's a... Some of you know that I'm not any longer, but I was a river rafter. And learning not to push the river. Learning when not to push things, when to let things unfold and... and when to push, when you need to be more active, and figuring out the timing of activity, I think, is one aspect of it.

[41:21]

Thank you. I meant to ask you first if you wanted to add anything, or amend, or edit, or... Okay. All right. Thank you again for your talk. Give me your name or your first name? Sage. Sage. Okay, thank you. I guess my question is about, you know, you've talked about Zen being a homecoming and like dwelling in our uniqueness and individuality. And I'm wondering, if maybe i'm the only one who feels this way but there's a kind of um secret hope that lurks in the background that zen can make us other than what we are like something like i think you're part of what you said i'm sorry so say it again i didn't hear it i said how do you avoid i guess taking the approach to zen where um you're you're working from the basis that um zen can make you something other than what you are

[42:40]

That the Zen community, is that what you said, is other than what you are? No, it's... Sorry. Yeah. Zen practices can make you something different. Okay, thank you. Might be that I had to take out a hearing aid. Maybe I should put it back in. No. It's not an unreasonable idea for people, when they're suffering, people come to Zen oftentimes under the circumstances, and they want to be something different under those circumstances. So there's that, the hope, make me something else, take this away.

[43:44]

And actually, whatever gets in you in the door, that's fine. It's true that learning how to deal with suffering is an important skill. And if one can do that, and that makes you different, then... And it's also true, I've heard people say, that one of the reasons they stick around is because they look around and say, I want what that person has. They see something in somebody that feels to them like practice or some effect of practice. So, except and at the same time, and this is where it gets paradoxical or contradictory or complicated, we're encouraged not to practice with a goal in mind, right? And I think think that, for me anyway, the remedy to bring those two things together is to become more of who you are, not something else.

[44:54]

And that's the path, to become deeper and to become more of the true expression of who you are. I see a hand, I see two hands actually. Two more. I can't see the name, so. Can you hear me, Mary? Say your name, Charlie. Mary, can you hear me? My name is Charles Ware. Is that Charlie? Is that Charlie? Hey, Charlie. I want to thank you very much for your scholarship and putting this together.

[46:00]

And I found it marvelous. And I just want to say that you might enjoy reading Plato about The cave. Maybe you know about it already. It's been a long time. Right. But you know what I'm talking about. Yes, I do. It might be a good refresher. It's very short. Thank you. Well, thank you. Thanks for your talk, Mary. My name is Rich. First of all, I'll just say I really appreciate, I feel like you have this, I associate you with this idea of harmonizing and according. We've had conversations about this before. You gave a talk a couple of Rahatsus ago, but according with Hongjun, according with the situation and responding appropriately, which I still carry with me and think about a lot.

[47:03]

So I like how you framed the poem as the Sandokai as sort of a, arriving and finding our place. And I wonder sort of if that's realizing our true nature, which I think is what you're saying, then how does that relate to our vow to save all beings? Hmm. I have to get over my resistance to saving all beings. I like awakening with all beings, so there's that. Well, you know, I think we have also talked about how the beings are not beings out there, but beings in here as well.

[48:16]

And when you can come in terms with, for lack of a better way of saying it, your language that allows you to respond more appropriately because you've done that work inside, that is a major step. With their... Just in the way you respond, your response becomes more appropriate to that person rather than out of something inside. I think it really, for me, it starts in here. It starts about how we work ourselves. I mean, I was going to say at some point, but I would say it now, that... One of the... from this particular aspect of study of the Sandokai is there's always a place for therapy.

[49:26]

I'm not just saying that as an ex-therapist, but the work, meaning the work never stops. You don't get somewhere and then you are a completely accomplished person without any... blind spots, without anything you have to work through. And I, maybe there's somebody who doesn't have any of those things, but I haven't, in my lifetime, I haven't met them yet. So what this says to me is exactly the opposite, enlightenment. Enlightenment doesn't, like, make you a better person, give you better. Enlightenment is, in the old way, being in oneness. Being in oneness can really lead to spiritual bypass, and we've seen that, actually, if you look around various places where things have not happened well.

[50:36]

People weren't working the stuff inside, and that led to inappropriate response. So, and they were accomplished people, and I think that they had a close relationship with non-duality. But that, you still, the metaphor is, we still have to go back to the marketplace. We still have to live in the world. And living in the world means continuing the work. That's it. Thank you for remembering that. .

[52:00]

. . . Sounds so possible. lake lake can you hear me lake yes you know i can't make i can't turn off recording can you do that i sure can i sure can

[56:16]

Thank you. Yeah. And we're going to keep

[56:22]

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