to, Is that a little better? How about online? Can you hear me okay? Great, thank you. It's really wonderful to get to be here together today. I'm feeling a lot of gratitude for this community and all the hard work and energy and dedication

[01:19]

devotion to the Sangha and to our practice together that it takes to make a day like this possible. It's really an extraordinary thing to have a full day that we can devote to practicing together in this way. I think it isn't actually possible to see or understand completely the power of a day like today. Dogen Zenji, the great founder of our school in the 13th century in Japan, wrote, about our zazen practice.

[02:20]

He wrote, even if all Buddhas of the ten directions, as innumerable as the sands of the Ganges, exert their strength and with the Buddha's wisdom try to measure the merit of one person's zazen, they will not be able to fully comprehend it. So even if all Buddhas of the ten directions, as innumerable as the saints of the Ganges, exert their strength, and with the Buddha's wisdom try to measure the merit of one person's zazen, they will not be able to fully comprehend it. So that's, you know, one person. And there's 30 of us or something? People online, you know? That's infinity times 30. So even if the Buddhas can't fully comprehend it, I can't comprehend it. I can't see the mysterious resonance of a day like today through the rest of my life, through the world.

[03:31]

I can't see it. I won't understand the ways I'm forever changed by a day like this with you. our activity spirals out in ways we can't know. We can't see all the effects, we can't discard them. But I think we can see some of the effects. And I think we can try, just because I won't be able to see all the power of a day like today, I can try to see some of the power of a day like today. I can see some of the ways that I have been impacted or I might be impacted. I've seen other people be impacted. And I want to say a little bit about that. But I guess I want to offer it in humility. This is the part that I can maybe see or try to get my hands around.

[04:33]

Yeah, this is how we're affected by this. But there's this other vast part that we might not ever know. But it's there. So one of the ways that I'm impacted, that I'm affected by a day like this, by a Sashin, a slightly longer set of hours of practice and community, is the palpable experience, the embodied experience of being still together and then moving together and then being still together and then moving together through the day. There is something about the rhythm of stillness and movement that we're carried along by.

[05:38]

And for me, it's possible for that to be an experience or a little glimmer into the way that we we actually are we actually make one body so there's one body being still and one body moving and actually when we're when we're in it you might notice even in the stillness even in zazen together there's still little currents of movement i'm i'm breathing and you're breathing and Every so often someone sways a little bit or adjusts their posture. We hear a car horn or a bird or something. So even in the stillness, there's these still little currents of motion. And then we start to move together. We might do service.

[06:41]

We might do kin-hin. Later we'll have a work period. We'll do these things together. And even in moving together as one body, I think it's possible to notice these little rivers of stillness. the glimmers of stillness even in the middle of the motion. It's a palpable experience sometimes that we can have on a day like today of the reality that we are one vast interconnected body. that there's this choreography with all things. Now I say it's possible to be blind to this truth. It is possible for me to live my life as if I weren't embedded in a seamless whole with the great earth and the myriad things.

[07:51]

It's possible for me to live as if I were separate, bounded, alone, estranged. And in our tradition, we call that suffering. And a day like this, an embodied experience of moving together and being still together, mainly still, but with a little movement, and breathing together, and then moving together, mainly moving, but with a little stillness. A day like this can give us a little reminder, maybe, or a little glimpse, a little doorway into that vast interconnection. can remind us of the fact that we aren't left out of reality and that we can't leave out any part of reality.

[08:55]

So our great ancestor, Domshan, this is an old story, went to study with Nanyuan. And when he took his leave, Nanyuan said, make a thorough study of the Buddha Dharma and broadly benefit the world. make a thorough study. It's like advice or something for the trip, you know? Have a good day at school, make a thorough study of the Buddha Dharma, broadly benefit the world. Dharshan said, I have no question about studying the Buddha Dharma, but what is it to broadly benefit the world? I have no question about studying the Buddha Dharma, but what is it to broadly benefit the world? not to disregard a single being. Not to disregard a single being. So there's a way, I think, when we allow ourselves to connect to the palpable experience of being, moving through a day as one body, we might see that the reality body

[10:14]

excludes no one or no thing, that there's nothing disregarded. I guess there's a way, I want to be a little careful, you know, we can't comprehend everything that happens in a day like this, and I don't want to suggest, how to say this, I have certainly spent many days like this not connected to the vast truth of our interconnection with all things. Many times we won't feel it. We just won't. I had a mentor who used to say, practice isn't a vending machine. Which I really liked, you know, it's not like you put in your quarters and B6 and then when it comes out or something. And in fact, I think that's really wonderful. I think it's one one tragedy of our deluded life is that we sometimes treat our life or each other as if we were a vent machine, as if we were here to get what we wanted from each other or something.

[11:25]

And that's actually a prison. So I am delighted that that's not how things work. But it does mean there's no kind of guarantee that on a day like this, It all sounds very nice, the moving as one body part. But I guess I want to acknowledge that lots of different things can happen in our bodies and in our minds. And there's times that a day like this can bring up real pain, physical pain or emotional pain. And I want to really encourage you, if you find yourself struggling in some way, to give a note to the director. You can let one of us know And where the whole point of doing this, the whole point of doing this together is that we can take care of each other. Yeah, there's times it's hard and then you need to ask for and receive just kind of basic kindness.

[12:38]

But there are times that we get these little glimpses. And a day like this really helps make that possible. So thinking about moving and being still together, which again is so much of my experience of Sesshi, you know, just that rhythm. Now we're all still. Now we're all moving. Now we're all still. I had this experience that really impacted me when I had, maybe not long after, maybe a couple of years after I had ordained, but I had the opportunity to visit the Zen Center up in Vallejo. Mary Mosin, who's the teacher there, is well known to many of you. She's a disciple of Sojuns. And Mary asked if I would do evening service, if I would do doshi for evening service.

[13:41]

And, you know, I hadn't had occasion for doshi so many times. And we actually met here. I remember we were living in Oakland. I drove over and we met here. And she kind of went through the forms of her temple with me, which was great. And so it was time for evening service. And I was standing there where the doshi stands. I was kind of wondering, you know, if I should start, because the doshi starts with that first bow. And so I looked and turned around to kind of see if everybody was ready, you know? And I should ask her if she said this. My memory is that later she, the word she used is cheating. I should ask, but it sort of sounds like Mary. She said that's cheating. And that really went in, that really made an impact for me. It's possible to not, to not look to see if people are still, but to actually just feel when the room becomes still.

[14:46]

And sometimes I confess as Doshi, I actually wait too long because it's just so fun up there to feel the stillness of the room and then start to move together. There's lots of ways to be doshi. Some people move along more quickly, some people move along. That doesn't matter. It's just that's one little example of the mysterious way we're connected to each other that we can really feel in a day like this. So interestingly, he says, interestingly, there's some neat stuff in our tradition about movement and stillness.

[16:03]

We inherit some teachings about how things move and how things are still. And I thought I'd say just a little bit about movement. about some of those. So the first teaching is from Nagarjuna, a great ancestor from about the second century. Nagarjuna is credited with writing this gigantically important text called the Mula Madhyamika Karika. which is the kind of foundation of the entire Ajaanaka school, which is one of the big schools of Mahana Buddhism, basically comes out of this one book. This one text shapes the whole Buddhist tradition for thousands of years.

[17:04]

And there's an entire chapter in this text that's actually about movement. It's about movement and stillness. So the text is a whole series of these pretty intricate, kind of heady in a way, arguments about emptiness. The ways that things are empty of intrinsic nature, the way they're empty of permanent fixed essences. And it's kind of a complex text. It's workable if you go really slowly. It's one of those texts you have to really read sort of slowly, but there's just one little passage that I wanna pull out of that chapter. And it's a passage about the relationship between motion and that which moves. So, motion itself and that which is moving.

[18:06]

And Nagarjuna says, if without a mover, it would not be correct to say there's no motion. So without a mover, you can't have motion. Sort of makes sense, right? Without something moving, you can't have motion. Without motion, you can't have a mover. If there isn't motion, there can't be something that's moving, right? So when I move, what's the relationship between me, between this one, and motion? From the other side, it's relation to motion, the act of motion, and me. Is there a permanent, essential me, something called me, and there's this permanent, essential thing called motion? And the answer is no, there can't be, right? If there were a permanent, essential motion, it would have to be moving. But without a mover, it can't move.

[19:09]

And if there's a permanent fixed essential me that's moving, how can that be different from permanent motion? They sort of need each other to make sense. You can't have one without the other. Or you could say they're empty. Motion and mover are empty. Like I said, it's a little bit heavy, It's a little bit technical or abstract or something. But I think it's something that we can sort of experientially check out a day like this. We are being still. And we are moving. And that actually doesn't feel heavy to me. That feels like something we're really doing together. And we can notice that it doesn't separate out.

[20:13]

There's a kind of plunge into being alive together. Yeah. So I thought actually of a way of saying this that's clearer. I really hesitated about including it. My experience with this stuff is that if you read it, it's possible. It's really hard to hear it and have it, it's so, yeah, it's kind of dense, you know? So anyway, thanks for putting up with that. There's a better way to say it, and some of you will know this. You're the right age to learn this in school. This is Gates. This is William Mother Gates from among school children, right? I see the nods, it's great. You can find the poets. O body swayed to music, O brightening glance, how can we know the dancer from the dance?

[21:19]

O body swayed to music, O brightening glance, how can we know the dancer from the dance? So our tradition is clear, there's no dance without a dancer, and there's no dancer without a dance. Everything is empty, which means that everything is in vast, mysterious interrelationship. Everything is happening together. Nagarjuna comes from a layer of the Buddhadharma that we usually associate with with India and in Tibet, too, that's a little bit more abstract, a little bit more doctrinal, a little bit more like there's like philosophical arguments in it, you know, it's like that's the layer of tradition that has all the lists, you know.

[22:23]

And then as the tradition moves into East Asia, it interacts with cultures that have a more like a more poetic or imagistic sensibility and the same teachings get sort of expressed in a different form. So there's a different way of talking about this same stuff that I think you'll feel how it just comes from a different layer of the tradition. And this is a story that will be familiar to many of you. Some of you may be hearing it for the first time. It's a great famous old story in our tradition. Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind. The temple flag outside and it's moving in the wind and they're arguing about it.

[23:28]

One said the flag moves. The other said the wind moves. One says the flag mows, one says the wind mows. You sort of feel it, right? Dance or dance, like we're trying to carve reality apart. But, you know, reality doesn't carve apart. They argue back and forth, but could not agree. The sixth ancestor said, it is not the wind that mows. It is not the flag that mows. It is your mind that moves. The two monks were struck with awe. The flag moves, the wind moves, and the sixth answer says, it's your mind that moves. So as we're moving together, as we move and as we're still, You know, mind is kind of a dense term in our tradition.

[24:35]

It means a lot of different things and a lot of different emphasis, but just in a really simple way, just mind being like that which perceives. What's the relationship between mind and flag? If the flag is moving in the way, what's the relationship between this one that is perceiving and that which is perceived? And there's a bunch of ways we make that division, you know, people sometimes experience it as like subject, object, or self and world, or self and other, inside and outside, perceiver and perceived. There's also similar ways of kind of slicing things up. And the power of a story like this is It's just kind of the reminder that the way we slice things up doesn't work, it doesn't reach reality.

[25:38]

Reality isn't sliced in that way. So to say the flag's over there moving and my mind's over here still, it's not exactly right. When the flag moves, my mind moves. They happen together. Everything happens together. How can you know the dancer from the dance? How can you know motion from the mover? How can you know stillness from the one who is still? How can you know the flag from the mind? We can't. They interpenetrate. They arise together. They make one flowing, interconnected body.

[26:41]

So I thought I might tell one more story before I stop. That's all right, and this takes place maybe like 150 or 200 years after the six ancestors, so after that story about the mind and the flag. So in this story, a group of monks go to visit Yangshan, go to visit this teacher Yangshan. There's 17 monks that go to visit Yangshan, and they're staying in the guest house, And they are discussing this story. They're talking about the flag and the wind and mind. They're talking about this exact story and they're sort of discussing it, they're explaining it to each other, they're expressing their understanding of it.

[27:49]

And the head of the guest house is a man named Meow Shin. Meow Shin. I feel connected to Miao Shin because when I first started hanging around the Austin Zen Center, this was maybe 19 or 20 years ago, the temple path was named Miao Shin. It's like, I'm going to say again, Miao Shin. Anyway. It lands for some people. I thought it was a little bit. So, I'm actually the head of the guest house, so these 17 monks are there, and they're arguing about the story, and they're sort of going around about it, and she overhears them. They're going on and on, probably, about the wind and the flag and the mind, and she's getting more and more irritated, actually, with these guys, and she...

[28:56]

They don't get, so she calls them blind donkeys. She says they haven't been drawn out of the Buddha Dharma. Their understanding is not correct. They hadn't, they didn't understand. They didn't understand what moves. They hadn't really, really explored and dropped into what it is that moves and what it is that is still. They haven't dreamed of Buddha Dharma. So Miyashin's assistant goes and tells the 17 monks, you know, like, yeah, Miyashin said you're blind donkeys and you're having a dream of Buddha Dharma. And this next bit is to their credit, actually. So what they do is they get cleaned up and they put on their robes and they go and they offer incense and prostrations and they ask to receive her teachings. And I guess I just want to pause to notice their willingness and their lack of defensiveness and may me be like this with each other.

[30:12]

May I be like this. I aspire to listen when you see that I'm a blind donkey. and to ask to be helped. It's a very moving point in the story for me. So they go to her, and they're coming up to her. And Mnoshin says, come closer. And as they're getting closer, she says, it is not that wind moves. It is not that the flag moves. It is not that mind moves. It is not that wind moves, it is not that the flag moves, it is not that mind moves. And at that, all 17 of them woke up. So I think you know it's possible to hear the first story, the six ancestor story saying, it's not the flag that moves, it's the mind that moves.

[31:21]

It's not that, so then it's this. But that's just a flip, that's just an inversion of the same game, right? Now I'm saying it's not that that's separate, but in another way, you're saying now it's this that's separate. Yeah, but Mnashi goes beyond that. It's not that and it's not this. It's not the flag, it's not the wind, and it's not mind, which goes further. So I really love this story. It feels, for me, it's an important and beautiful story. And I guess I do want to acknowledge, though, before I end, that this story feels especially precious to me. And this may not be true. I'd actually be really interested to hear if someone knows otherwise. But for me,

[32:23]

This is the only story I've ever heard about myashe. I think this might be all we have. And I feel both some real reverence for it because it's like we do have it. It did kind of get through, but also a sense of loss, you know? And it's true, in our tradition, our women teachers, we often have less, you know? It's like, we get some, like, the practice is so clear, the song of the practice is so clear that even through the, you know, the static of centuries of sort of misogyny and not valuing some teachers as much as other teachers.

[33:24]

Even through that, we get some. And so on some level, I'm sort of thrilled by that. I'm energized by that. But a story like this also, for me, at least has some sadness around it or has some loss around it. It is not that wind moves. It is not that the flag moves. It is not that mind moves. I would, I'd love to have more stories from this person. So, I'll also say, Then in another way, to go back to where we started, that the power of practice can't be seen or comprehended, I am also comforted by knowing that just because the visible traces of Miao Xin's practice are not as available to me as I would want.

[34:50]

And I feel lost there. I mean, even the Buddhists can't comprehend one person's zazen. We don't have the stories. We don't have the part we can see. But Myakshin's practice, like everyone's practice, like our practice today, goes out in ways that actually can never be lost. Because it is one reality body, we don't actually lose anything. The options lumens practice is right here. with us today.

[35:52]

And I wish you more stories. So today is this wonderful, rare opportunity to be still together and as still as we can and then move together and Explore the ways that conditions create something called being still. Conditions create something called moving. And I feel so happy, I feel so lucky to get to do this with you. To get to be here together in this beautiful temple, practicing this beautiful way. Thank you very much. I'll pass around the mic for Q&A.

[37:01]

Yeah. And if we could keep our questions and comments concise so that more people can get a word in. Yeah, please. Thank you for your lecture. I missed the punchline. So you told that last story, that the wind doesn't move, the flag doesn't move, the mind doesn't move. I don't get what they're saying, that nothing moves. Well, we could, yeah, the punchline. Yeah. The punchline is that everything moves. Everything's moving. Right? But the way we understand it, the way we carve that up to ourselves is always doing this game that doesn't work.

[38:09]

There's a dancer and there's a dance. There's a mind and there's a flag. And the punchline is what there actually is is Yes. So everything's moving together, and you can't separate it out in any way. Is that what it's saying? Yeah, I think so. Okay. And then the first story, I've heard the mind-only school. So is that first story from the mind-only school? Yeah, again, it's for like the word mind. There's these words in our tradition that, our tradition is old. They're like just thousands of years. And so that word can mean a lot of different things. I think it, yeah, I think it harmonizes, it sort of overlaps, resonates in some ways with the mind-domen school. Yeah. Thank you.

[39:11]

Yeah, and thanks for clarifying the punchline. Thank you. It seems important. Sorry. Thank you, Meera. About this togetherness, sometimes it is a very beautiful thing, but sometimes it could also feel very painful, feeling other people's pain or suffering, this togetherness. Could you say a little more about that set of togetherness? I really appreciate that. In a way, I don't know that I have much to add to that other than that's true. I think we're together in ways that are beautiful and in ways that are painful because I think our life is beautiful and painful. Thanks for reminding us of that. Is there anything online?

[40:14]

Yeah, Susan. Thanks, Dave. Because there's so much we can't see or there's that mystery about our practice, would you say a little bit about the role of faith and how you see that in your own understanding? how that unfolds for you. Yeah, thanks so much. Did everyone hear Susan's question? I realize I should be checking. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's where our faith comes from, is from the knowledge that we can't see the end of what happens, right?

[41:27]

We are sort of bobbing along in an ocean of mystery. And so for me, faith is kind of remembering that, that we are relating to things we understand, and then we're also relating to something ungraspable. And I think that's where faith begins. And my understanding of our tradition is that faith is really important in our tradition. It's not exactly like a doctrinal faith. It's not exactly like something you believe. But yeah, we trust reality. We're part of reality, and so we trust reality. That's the way of saying what we have faith in. Is there more that you want to add to that? No, it's just, yeah, it's always seemed like a relief to me that we don't have to figure out what's going on.

[42:37]

So it seems like faith rises up from that relief. Is that true for you? Absolutely, yeah. In a way, it's the letting go. There's like a letting go, and then faith happens. There's a hand online. Is it the community room? I can't see who that is. Is it the community room? Do I need to unmute? Hi. I think maybe Ken was before me, but it looks like there's plenty of time. Thanks, Ken. You know, I always thought the punchline was that nothing's moving. There's no moving. Nothing can move. Because the only way to move is if against a fixed point or something like that. It's kind of the same as what you're saying, that everything's moving, but I always thought the punchline was nothing's moving. There's no moving. Any thoughts about that?

[43:39]

That's a better punchline. Our punchlines are great. Yeah. There was someone else, Ken. Thank you, Dave. I think this follows on to Laurie's comment. I've always found it helpful to think of the moving through with the movement. Like you can't have moving without moving through that which is moved through. And those are one thing. So the movement It can't be a thing that moves. It's all moving. And the mover, sorry, my mind. One antidote for me of being in my mind is to feel my thoughts flowing through me.

[44:42]

So it's, I am being moved. so i guess the question the question that i always have around that is the feeling of expression like if i am not moving and something is moving through me and yet moving through me is shaping my expression like trying to understand how to say this like when feeling I get is of acceptance, which I think gets to the point of faith. Like, I have faith that what's moving through me is an expression. But then there's also activity. Like, do you have a way to find your ground in all that? I guess I just appreciate what's so fun is just feeling how hard it is to talk about this.

[45:49]

Anytime we say it, it slips away. So what we're left with is faith, and what we're left with is actually doing this together. And when we're doing this together, there it is. Yeah, we're doing it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, Ross. Hi, Dave. Ross. Nan Chuan said, nothing is left out. Is that right? To Dong Shuan? Yeah, yeah. Or, not to disregard a single being, which has the exact same feeling too. Yeah, nothing is left out. So the thought that arose was a peanut. So the shell, the nut, and the skin around the peanut, the inside. So we crack open, one cracks open the peanut,

[46:52]

and typically takes the nut and puts it in their mouth and they so-called disregard the shell. They be careful and place it nicely in a garbage can or recycle bin or something like that. So how do you see things as one and yet you have to discern what to separate out and what you so-called take in? I really appreciate that question, and I don't, in a way, there's times that I'm actually not helped by thinking of things as one, because that would make it hard. If they're one, then yeah, what would I know how to eat and how to throw away, but that they're one relationship, they're one body, like the shell and the peanut happen together. You need a shell to have a peanut, right?

[47:53]

But then yeah, different things, I think we need to be really, really precise. Different objects need different kinds of care. Different people need different kinds of care. I need different things in different moods. I think we come from a very precise tradition. Treats each thing exactly. Dogen, high things in a high place and low things in a low place. So it's not exactly... Yeah, the peanut and the shell aren't the same, but they happen together. It's not exactly right to say there's shells without peanuts, or there's peanuts without shells. It's kind of incoherent. Does that speak to what you're saying? It does, but not one, not two. My three rows, you once said, you take it in, you swallow the nourishment, and you spit out the chaff. which to me is like you have to kind of taste the chaff in a sense.

[48:55]

Like sometimes we might get a little piece of shell or a little piece of skin from the melon. Oh, this isn't the flesh of the melon. I don't want the skin, so I put it away. But then I start thinking about our relations with each other. And some people have a little more chaff-like quality. They have a little more nourishment-like quality. And I think that's kind of actually in practice. Like as a therapist, how do you work with that? professionally as well as when you're outside the office. Thank you. Such a good question. So nourishment and chaff really are different. And I think it would not be conducive to a good life to eat chaff. We shouldn't eat chaff. It's not good for us. But nourishment and chaff aren't separate, they happen together. And living right where, at the intersection of those two things, is our life together and is our practice.

[50:03]

I've learned, sometimes I've learned the most or been nourished by being in proximity to, chaff-like people, difficult people, and actually you've got to learn and get nourished from that, which is not a logical regression, but it does happen. This is so fun. I just want to remember, as soon as we start talking about this, it's so hard to actually, to really, really articulate this, which I think is why we need things like this. We have to just plunge into it. So thank you, Ross. Isn't the chaff good for other beings? Like maybe humans don't want the chaff of a peanut, but compost, it would do well. So nothing's left out.

[51:05]

There's nothing that actually gets excluded. And then we all go on together. I think we do have time maybe for one more and then we'll stop. Hi, I wanted to further understand what you meant by, you talked about faith and trusting in reality because that comment made me wonder the conceptualization of reality and kind of the yoga chart idea that is a dream versus the idea that if reality is empty, is there anything to trust in? So I want to understand like what exactly you're trusting. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that question. That's a really, that's a great question. So I think

[52:09]

maybe one way to say it is that whatever we think we're trusting in isn't exactly what there is that's trustworthy. There is something that the way we're thinking about it isn't reached by. And I think the real gift of what we get to do together is plunging into that. So today As we're moving, as we're being still, you might just notice what's keeping you aloft. What is it that you can rely on? Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll stop there. I feel really happy to get to do this together. Beans are numberless.

[53:16]

I vow to awaken with them. Beans are inexhaustible. I vow Oh. I vow to become it.

[54:23]

Beings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. Surpassable.

[54:54]

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