I love to taste the truth of God as it's on the transverse. Good evening. Good evening. I'm sorry. Okay. You lost. Well, does everyone have some kind of text, either a book or a Xerox copy to look at? So our class tonight, and for this practice period, I've decided to choose the Gakudo Yojinshu of Dogen, which has a number of sections, and where Dogen Zenji lays out some very fundamental precepts for practice.

[01:16]

They're not the usual precepts, like the 10 precepts, but they're maybe practice instructions, practice guidelines, things that we should be aware of and practice in order to bring out the vitality of practice. So, I'm using, of course, the translation that Cos, was that me? Cos and somebody did. And this is, oh yeah, Ed Brown. And this is, Zen Master Dogen, I don't know if you know this book by Yokoi, it also has a translation of Gakudo Yojinshu.

[02:18]

It's a good translation, but I've decided to use the One in the Moon and the Dew Drop. But if you want, you can check on that one, read that one, and see what the minor differences might be in translation. So I used, actually, the introduction on the sign-up sheet, the Yokoi introduction on the sign-up sheet. So I'll read it to you. He says, Dogen completed this treatise for his disciples at Koshoji in 1234, seven years after he had returned from China, whereas in the Fukan Zazengi, the primary emphasis is on a practical explanation of how to do Zazen.

[03:29]

In this later work, Dogen gives a more thorough explanation of the spirit in which not only zazen, but all of one's actions are to be done. So in the fall, in the practice period that we had in the fall, you studied the fukan zazengi. So this is a complement to a fukan zazengi. I don't know how many of you were in the aspects of practice period in the last fall. So, beginning with an exhortation to awaken to the Bodhi mind, Dogen goes on to discuss the importance of training under a true master, as well as such topics as the relationship of training to enlightenment and the significance of the practice of Zazen. Although the content of the Shobo Genzo is philosophically more profound, The Gakudo Yojinshu is highly esteemed as a training guide in the Sodo Zen school by those who are actually engaged in daily practice of the way.

[04:40]

Among Dogen's numerous works, this one in particular deserves repeated reading, ideally in conjunction with the deepening of one's own practice. For although relatively short, it presents nothing less than the blueprint of enlightenment." Kind of an interesting statement. you know, when Japanese teachers, whenever we go to study with Japanese teachers someplace for some kind of practice period or some, or whatever, they usually use the Gakudo Yuujinshu. They usually discourse on the Gakudo Yuujinshu. And when Alan was in Japan recently, that's what they used, right? Yeah, yeah. So, Narasaki Roshi, when he was at Tassajara in 95, I think, something like that, we had a practice period with Japanese and Americans, and he lectured on it, and Maezumi Roshi lectured on it.

[05:49]

So, it's, we should all be familiar with it. So I'm going to start out reading it and then open it for discussion. And so I don't want to just lecture on it, but I do want us to discuss it. because I think that, you know, Dogen presents his understanding of practice. Dogen is a, you know, early 13th century person, and the conditions and the climate of Buddhism in his time plays into whatever he's talking about.

[06:55]

And, you know, we have to balance that against our present time, balance our understanding of Dogon with our present time and our present practice and our present teachers and the way society has developed since the 13th century. But still, Dogen's fundamental principles are all very clear. Dogen's fundamental principles are simply Buddhism. There's really nothing new in Dogen. It all looks new because we see the Dharma through Dogen's eyes and through Dogen's mind and his understanding. So, you know, in every age, There's someone who receives the dharma, digests the dharma, and presents the dharma according to the way people can understand it in any particular time and place.

[08:13]

So the presentation is always a little bit different. So we should try to understand what Dogon's fundamental teaching is and be able to interpret that for our own time. So that's why discussion is very important. What does it mean for us now and how do we actually practice? So guidelines for studying the way is the way this Kakuryu Jinshu is interpreted, the meaning. So this first section, Dogen says, you should arouse the thought of enlightenment. Which way do you want me to swing it? Oh, that's a good idea, but I don't want you to be blinded by... I want you to be blinded by my light.

[09:17]

Okay, that's good. Thank you. Is this okay? You have to stare at it. Okay, good. So, he says, you should arouse the thought of enlightenment, which is... bodhichitta. We hear a lot about bodhichitta from the Tibetans. Tibetans are always talking about bodhichitta, which means Buddha mind, Buddha consciousness. So the thought of enlightenment has many names. but they all refer to one in the same mind. So the many names are doshin, which is way mind or way-seeking mind, bodhichitta, and so forth.

[10:28]

And bodhi means enlightenment, actually. So the thought of enlightenment has many names, but they all refer to one and the same mind. Ancestor Nagarjuna, who is the 14th ancestor, said, the mind that fully sees into the uncertain world of birth and death is called the thought of enlightenment. Thus, if we maintain this mind, this mind can become the thought of enlightenment. So for Dogen, this is very important, the great matter. Daiji is called the great matter, which means the matter of birth and death. For Dogen, is the most important thing to understand or make our effort to understand what is the meaning of birth and death or what is birth and death.

[11:44]

And if we understand that, then we can understand what it means to be alive. And he equates that with enlightenment. So he says, thus, if we maintain this mind, this mind can become the thought of enlightenment, Bodhi mind. So indeed, when you understand the discontinuity, the notion of self does not come into being. Ideas of name and gain do not arise. Fearing the swift passage of the sunlight, practice the way as though saving your head from fire. Reflecting on this ephemeral life, make endeavor in the manner of Buddha raising his foot." Okay, so when you understand Discontinuity, a little funny word, but it means impermanence or transience, actually.

[12:55]

If we think about time, there's continuous time and discontinuous time. So continuous time means unarticulated time. It means the moment which is now, which is always now. That moment which is always now is continuous time. Discontinuous time is conscious time or discriminated time. Discriminated time means time that is broken up into little pieces, like one o'clock, two o'clock, and three o'clock, or yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. I'll see you at three o'clock. This is discontinuous time.

[13:58]

And this is time that we create. Continuous time is just always now. So now is more like eternal time, time which has no beginning or end, but it's simply always the same time, which is now. So wherever we are, we say now. Time and place, time and conditions create discontinuous time. But continuous time is not dependent on discrimination. So we have continuous time and discontinuous time, and even though we have, it's just like the one and the many, right? Or form and emptiness. These two aspects, one is many things and one thing.

[15:04]

So there's one time and there's many times. And the many times are all pieces of one time. So within the myriad pieces of time, they're all just pieces of one time. So the eternal exists within the momentary. And the momentary is an eternal moment, if we understand it correctly. So this is how we enter understanding of birth and death. We say, yes, there's birth and there's death, but we also say, there's no birth, no death, in the ultimate sense. In the ultimate sense, there's no birth and no death. Where do we come from and where do we go? We come from someplace and we go someplace, but actually, we don't come from someplace or go someplace.

[16:10]

There's no coming or going. Within coming and going, there's no coming and going. And within no coming or going, there's coming and going. So we think of, it's like a coin with two sides. One side is dark and one side is light, but it's the same coin. Heads and tails. Which do you prefer, heads or tails? Well, heads and tails are part of the same coin. Each one of us has a head and a tail. Each one of us has a birth and a death. But what is it? So Duggan says, indeed, when you understand, he uses the word discontinuity.

[17:17]

So to me, discontinuity means discriminated time. But it also means transiency or impermanence. That's what it means. The notion of ego or self does not come into being. Ideas of name and gain do not arise. Dogen is very big on not grasping name and gain, or fame and profit. Fame and profit are anathema to Dogen, name and gain. There's a story which may be apocryphal, may not. I think part of it's apocryphal and part of it's probably true. When Dogen was raising money for Eheji, I think I've told you this story before. Not long ago, as a matter of fact.

[18:19]

And, um, Dogen did not want his monks to solicit money from people who were not sincere about the Dharma, even if they were wealthy. But this one monk solicited money from this wealthy person who was of questionable character. And when the monk came back, and Dogen heard about this, he kicked the monk out of the monastery. I think that part is probably true. And dug a hole six feet deep where the monk's seat was. That probably is apocryphal. But who knows? So he says, fearing the swift passage of sunlight, practice the way as though saving your head from fire. So this is very important for Dogen.

[19:21]

This is the most important thing, you know. And Shakyamuni talks about his fire sermon, our heads are on fire, right? So this is a kind of reflection of Shakyamuni's fire sermon. Reflecting on this ephemeral life, make endeavor in the manner of Buddha raising his foot. Shakyamuni, apparently, there's a story about him standing on one foot for seven days, reciting verses in praise of Buddha. Pushya Buddha. Pushya is one of the Buddhas of the past, one of the Buddhas before Buddha. You know, we say the seven Buddhas before Buddha. There are actually hundreds of Buddhas before Buddha, but the reason we say seven is because it's just a small number.

[20:24]

We don't want to go into all the, it's just enough to say seven. So he's saying, Buddha stood on one foot for seven days reciting verses for this Buddha of the past in reverence. So he said, we should practice like this. So Dogon's very extreme. You only have to do it for five days. When you hear a song of praise sung by a Kinara bird, excuse me, a Kinara god, or a Kalavinka bird, let it be as the evening breeze brushing against your ears. If you see the beautiful face of Mou Kiong or Zi Shi, let it be like the morning dew drops coming into your sight. So a Kinara god is one of the, is the god of music.

[21:35]

You know, which is, music is very seductive. And beautiful music is very seductive. So he's saying, when you hear the song of praise sung by the Kinara god, who is the god of music, or a Kalavinka bird, Kalavinka bird also has this beautiful song that transcends you. Let it be as the evening breeze brushing against your ears. In other words, don't get caught by it. If you see the beautiful face of Mao Kiang, or Xi Xi, let it be like the morning dew drops coming into your sight. He's talking to monks, you know? And he's saying, you know, don't get caught by women. Don't get caught by beautiful women. These are the most exquisite women in the world. And at one glance, and you're totally blown away, seduced.

[22:37]

It's like the sirens, right? Kind of like that. So freedom from the ties of sound and form naturally accords with the essence of the way-seeking mind. So freedom from seduction and being caught by things, being caught by snares and traps and... These examples actually are related to cupidity. Sensual ties are called cupidity. So cupidity is not just sexual. We usually associate cupidity with sexual ties.

[23:45]

but actually it also includes music and anything sensual at all that we get caught by our senses or our emotions or our feelings. So he says, freedom from the ties of sound and form naturally accords with the essence of the way-seeking mind. So then he says, if in the past or present you hear about students of small learning or meet people with limited views, often they have fallen into the pit of fame and profit and have forever missed the Buddha way in their life. What a pity. How regrettable. You should not ignore this. So I think he's referring here to people who study a little bit of Buddhism and maybe practice a little bit of Buddhism and then set themselves up as teachers and as guides in order to dazzle people who don't know any better.

[25:21]

and then they become famous and wealthy. And I'm sure in Dogen's time, this is very true, that people would practice or exploit the Dharma for their own benefit. So if you read the sutras of the expedient or complete teaching or transmit the scriptures of the exoteric or esoteric schools without throwing away name and gain, it cannot be called arousing the thought of enlightenment. So that's a whole study in itself. The sutras, the expedient teachings and the complete teachings are the teachings of the exoteric and esoteric schools. is a whole area which I don't want to get into here, but the sutras are classified. There are various systems of classifications of the sutras.

[26:27]

expedient teachings and complete teachings and first teachings and last teachings and so forth. So, that's a whole study in itself. So then, so he's saying, he's coming to this place where he's gonna talk about this subject of knowledge. And it's a little bit obscure what he's saying here. It needs a little interpretation because this is the introduction that even if you read this the sutras of the expedient or complete teaching or transmit the scriptures of the exoteric or esoteric schools without throwing away name and gain cannot be called arousing the thought of enlightenment. So What he wants to present here is it's okay to read scriptures.

[27:31]

You should read them for their own sake, but you shouldn't substitute them for practice. Practice is the main thing. And after you have confidence in practice, then you can read the scriptures and study them. but if you only read scriptures and only practice a little, it's a problem. So then he says, one, some of these people who, he didn't say who they are, he said some of these people, but he means some of these people, some who study these scriptures and who seek fame and gain say, the thought of enlightenment is the mind of supreme perfect enlightenment. Do not be concerned with the cultivation of fame and profit.

[28:34]

This statement is not wrong, right? But it's not an excuse for name and fame. So it's a little bit hard to understand this, but he's criticizing these people. So the teachings he's presenting are correct, but the attitude of people who do it for fame and gain is not correct. So then he says, some of them say the thought of enlightenment is the insight that each thought contains 3,000 realms. That's true. I'll tell you about that. Listen carefully. There are ten states of existence. There are three thousand realms.

[29:37]

10 states of existence, hell, ghosts, et cetera. That's the six worlds. Five shravakas. No, I'm sorry, Sravakas, Pachaika Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, Buddhas, Devas, each one contains all 10 realms, has 10 aspects of suchness equaling 1,000 realms of existence. Further existences are distinguished as being of three kinds, which equals sentient existence, land, environment, and five constituents of being, and each has three modes, which equals 3,000 realms. So this is a very kind of esoteric teaching of the Tendai school. There were Buddhists who liked to dabble in this kind of stuff.

[30:44]

It's kind of numerologically exponential. Is that right? That's my term. So he says, some of them say, the thought of enlightenment is the dharmagate. Each thought is unborn. That's the Kagan teaching. And then he says, if one does not If one does this for fame and profit, it is just playing with words. And then some say the thought of enlightenment is the mind of entering the Buddha realm. This is Shingon teaching, eloquent speech and lofty treatises. Such people do not yet know and mistakenly slander the thought of enlightenment. They are remote from the Buddha way. To reflect on the mind concerned only with your own gain

[31:51]

Does this one thought blend with the nature and attributes of the 3,000 realms? Does this one thought realize the dharmagate of being unborn? Is there only the deluded thought of greed for name and love of gain? There is nothing which could be taken as a thought of enlightenment here. And then, from ancient times, sages have attained the way and realized dharma. Although as an expedient teaching, they lived ordinary lives, still they had no distorted thought of fame or profit. Not even attached to Dharma, how could they have worldly attachments? So he says, although as an expedient teaching, they lived ordinary lives. And a Bodhi mind is also the mind to save all sentient beings. So the thought of enlightenment, as was mentioned, is the mind which sees into impermanence.

[32:57]

So he's recapitulating. This is most fundamental and not at all the same as the mind pointed to by confused people. The understanding that each thought is unborn or the insight that each thought contains 3,000 realms is excellent practice after arousing the thought of enlightenment. So this should not be mistaken. So he's criticizing people who just use this stuff to play with or to get famous as dazzling thinkers or to make, for their own gain. So just forget for now, just forget yourself for now and practice inwardly. This is one with the thought of enlightenment. We see that the 62 views are based on self. So when a notion of self arises, sit quietly and contemplate it.

[34:04]

Is there a real basis inside or outside your body now? Your body with hair and skin is just inherited from your father and mother. From beginning to end, a drop of blood or lymph is empty. So none of these are the self. What about mind, thought, awareness, and knowledge, or the breath going in and out, which ties a lifetime together? What is it after all? None of these are the self either. How could you be attached to any of them? Deluded people are attached to them. Enlightened people are free of them. You figure there is self where there is no self. You attach to birth where there is no birth. Ye do not practice the Buddha way, which should be practiced. Ye do not cut off the worldly mind, which should be cut off. Avoiding the true teaching and pursuing the groundless teaching, how could you not be mistaken? So there are a lot of good questions here. How does the self arise?

[35:06]

What is born and what dies? And how to practice bodhi mind in the midst of worldly activity? Those are questions that arise from what Dogen's saying here. So he says, just forget yourself for now and practice inwardly. This, of course, reflects Dogen's Kenjo Koan. To study the self is to study the dharma, is to study the self. And to study the self is to forget the self, or let go of the self, or drop the self, dropping body and mind. So this is one with the thought of enlightenment. So what does that mean? We see that the 62 views are based on self. There's a footnote here about the 62 views.

[36:12]

Non-Buddhist views, which derive from four notions. Form is big, and I am in it. That's an erroneous view. I am big, and form is in me. Form is me. Form is separate from me. So, these are contradictory views, and they're all one-sided views. Third one is form is me. So form is big and I am in it. It's like everything in the world exists and I enter it. That's an erroneous view because we have as much to do with the world arising as the world has arisen and I am in it. When we enter the world, the world arises. But we think, I am entering the world.

[38:26]

And the world is already here. And I am big in form. Let's see. Form is big and I am big And form is in me. Form is me. Form is separate from me. So anyway, just the idea of me is the erroneous part. There's three persons, me, myself, and I. All three of which are erroneous. but we use them for convenience because, you know, my knee hurts, so I must exist. Well, it's true, we do exist.

[39:30]

It's not that you're not there. Yes? Speaking of knees, traditionally we often take breaks, right about halfway through. I mean, it takes place. Right. It might be around that time. But I'm waiting for my timekeeper to let me know. Sure. Yeah. She's on top. She's on top of it. Thank you. This is a good example of continuous time. Within discontinuous time. All right. Please, five minutes.

[40:33]

So just forget yourself for now and practice inwardly. See, this is one with the thought of enlightenment. Forget yourself for now and practice inwardly. We say that a person who is always busy taking care of others is one who is not so self-concerned. self-concern arouses a need for security for various overly anxious needs for outward security.

[41:48]

we become so concerned with ourself. So, you know, he's talking to a monk. The monks have, you know, robes and bowls and are dependent on alms for their sustenance. So, there's not a lot of self-concern, you know. They study the Dharma, and whatever they do is, in the service of the Dharma. So these people are serving the Dharma, actually. They're not just studying the Dharma for themselves, but they're serving the Dharma. The servants of the Dharma, actually, monks and priests and lay people who practice are servants of the Dharma. So there's not so much self-concern because when one takes care of the dharma, one serves the dharma, the dharma supports one.

[42:55]

And Dogen talks about this quite a bit. But it's true because there's a relationship between the world and the practitioner. And because the practitioner is serving the Dharma, which means, in a way, serving, saving beings, that person is always supported. And that's the basis of begging for your food. You serve the Dharma, and then you put out your bowl. People put stuff in your bowl because you're serving the dharma. And that's trust, that's total trust in the dharma. And it's total, it's giving up self-concern.

[43:57]

You're no longer trying to build defenses or build a support structure. And that's how we stop wars. We don't need anything. So when a notion of self arises, sit quietly and contemplate it. Is there a real basis? And this is what he means. Contemplate this. This is how you contemplate it. Is there a real basis inside or outside your body now? In other words, what is the basis of this body right now? We say there is no really inherent self. that self simply exists as elements, psychic and physical elements, interrelated with everything else.

[45:09]

So there's no inherent thing as a self. There's only a self which exists related and interdependent with everything else. So sometimes, you know, some people say, like, Soke Anse Sasaki likes to say, there's just the world soul, there's no individual soul, there's just the world soul, the human one soul with many extensions or parts called us, called individuals. So your body with hair, skin, and skin is just inherited from your father and mother. From beginning to end, a drop of blood or lymph is empty. So empty means interdependent. It's empty of its own being.

[46:16]

It's empty of inherent existence. So none of these are the self. In Buddhism, the analytical approach to Buddhism is to pick apart, to analyze the various parts of the body and analyze the mind, analyze consciousness. until you realize that there's no thing there in the middle. Yeah. Well, no, that's not right. Not right, because each of the individuals has its own karma.

[47:23]

But how can that be if there is no individual? There is an individual. It's just that the individual is not a self. It's not a self in the absolute sense. Only a sense in the relative sense. Only an individual in the relative sense. So there's only relative karma? Yeah, there's only relative karma. Karma is our volitional action. That's what karma is, a volitional action. And then there's the result of karma, which is what we usually call karma. But that's the fruit of karma, the result. So when there's a volitional action, it leads to a result, as you know. I mean, it's obvious, right? So individuals are the owners of their karma. But sometimes people talk about collective karma, but that's a stretch.

[48:31]

We say, well, there's certain, like America is creating its own karmic result. America created its karma, and the result is 9-11. So, we don't understand it, but that's a kind of collective karma. Not everybody is involved in it, so it's not really everybody's karma, but everybody feels the impact of that karma. So, but really, when we speak about karma, it's a person's volitional action and that result is a fallout. So, you know, when we talk about one big being with many attributes called folks, people, or those. There are those who, you know, people.

[49:38]

But we have to understand that, you know, there is oneness and there's also diversity. So diversity exists as an expression of the oneness. And the oneness is the totality of the diversity. Or the basis of the diversity. So none of these are the self. What about mind, thought, awareness, and knowledge? Or the breath going in and out? which ties a lifetime together. What is it after all? None of these are the self either. How could you be attached to any of them? So when you try to analyze, when you analyze, is this it?

[50:44]

No, is this it? This is characterized in a sutra, an old Pali sutra, The Questions of King Malinda. King Melinda was a monarch Persian, I think. And Nagathena was a Buddhist monk. And this was very early in India or right around there. And so, Melinda would ask Nagasena all these questions. It was a kind of setup, right? And Nagasena would answer Melinda's questions. And Melinda would say, oh, how wonderful, how wonderful, Nagasena, after he answered the questions. But one of the questions was, what is the self? And then Nagasena uses the description of a chariot. He says, here's the chariot. Are the wheels the chariot?

[51:45]

And King says, no. Is the axle a chariot? No. Is the door a chariot? And then he goes through the whole litany of parts. And when it takes all the parts away, there's no chariot. And even when he puts the parts together, it's just something called a chariot. So we have this thing called a chariot. But when you take all the parts away, there's no chariot there. And if you try to identify the parts as the chariot, it doesn't work. So you can't, there's no part that's the chariot. But on the other hand, every part is the chariot. If you take a house, and you put the house on a lot, and you build the house, and it's got windows and doors and so forth, and then you look at, you point to any part of the house, and you can say, this is the house.

[53:01]

But at the same time, it's not the house. It is the house, and it's not the house. So we say, well, I have a self. Here's my self. That's right. So it's not that there's no self. It's that the self is not a self. The self is not a self. Otherwise, you can't say there's no self. You can say that, but you have to understand what you mean by that. You know, if I kick you in the shins, you'll say, ouch, right? So that's something saying, ouch, right? That's myself. But that self is not a real self. The self arises through grasping and clinging and attachment. When there's no attachment, no grasping, no clinging, there's no self.

[54:05]

there's a person, well, you say there's a person. In Buddhist understanding, the idea that there is a personality is a wrong view. The view of a personality is a wrong view in Buddhism. But we use these terms in a convenient way because there is something here, but it's, there's nothing to grasp, there's nothing to hold on to. I was once 15 years old, so to speak, but I can't hold on to that. Now I'm almost 75. I can't hold on to that either. I'm only 74. But I can't hold on to that either because pretty soon I'll be 75. So there's nothing to hold on to. Everything is continually changing. So when we talk about a self, we just talk about something momentary that exists momentarily, but there's no real ...

[55:18]

So, but then we say, well, what happens when at the end, when everything dissolves, you know? Dissolves, this comes to an end and, you know, the various aspects which we call a living person disperse, right? What happens then? Where do we go? Well, we only go someplace if we think we came from someplace. You know, Sugiri Yoshi used to say, the reason that you're here is because you've always been here. You can't exist here just out of nothing, out of nowhere. Because you've always been here, that's why you're here. And you will always be here. But who is the who? Who is the you that's always been here and will always be here? There's no coming, no going.

[56:24]

Just everything is already, you are already where you've always been. In Buddhism, there are 32 heavens and hells. And there are descriptions about how people exist in these heavens and hells. but they're only temporary abodes. There's no permanent heaven and no permanent hell. They're just places, they're actually places that we find ourselves here, because everything is just here. Here is it, you know? So what is zazen? Zazen is to be here. That's really what zazen is, just be here. What is here? just here and now, the hardest place to be, because we always want to be someplace else in a different time. It'll get better, means hope for the future, which is just an idea.

[57:33]

There are miserable states, and we don't like them, and they're terrible, but miserable states, good states, happy states, When we understand here and now, we can accept whatever's going on. You know, there's always this move to improve the world, to make things better, to make our lives better, and then as soon as that happens, Somebody comes along and just cuts it all down. And then we start all over again. And then somebody cuts it all down. And then we start all over again. Somebody cuts it down, you know? When you look at what's been, you know, during the 60s and the 70s and the 80s, you know, it looked like there was human progress in the world.

[58:36]

And then suddenly, whew, you know, somebody comes and they cut it all down. If you live through the 50s, 60s, 70s, the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and seeing the progress, and then seeing how it's all been cut down, you really know the disappointment. People that were only born in the 70s, 80s, they don't know any better, really, so much. They don't experience that. People never experienced Hitler. It's just an idea. But this is the way the world goes. It goes good, it climbs up, and it gets cut down. So this fluctuation is where we live. And it'll always be this fluctuation. Always will be this fluctuation. That's the world, that's called the world. And what Dogen is saying is step out of that world.

[59:39]

to practice is to step out of that world where you get caught by the fluctuation that's always going on. Then we say, well, what about our compassion? And yeah, well, we have compassion for the world. And so we work for the benefit of the world. But what does that mean? To step out of that world, means to let go of self. Because it means you're no longer grasping onto the desire, the world of desire, which is where all that goes on. So Dogen is saying, step out of that, take the backward step and let go of that world. And drop the self. That way, you're totally free from that world and you can help people in that world. in the world. Yeah?

[60:43]

I have no problem with stepping out of the world, but Dogen, in the translation, says, cut off the world. Yeah. And I have some problem with that, because it sounds like this very active push it away, which, you know, when you push something away, and it seems like a kind of attachment. I don't know if I'm being clear. You're being very clear. And that's a good point, you know. He doesn't say push it away. He says cut it off. But also, you know, and he also says not even attached to dharma, right? But on the other hand, you know, people have attachments and they have desire and so forth, right?

[61:49]

And they have delusion and so it's not correct to, to cut off is a very extreme term. And it should only be used in certain respects. So, when Dogon says cut off, he's using it here, right? But in another place, he wouldn't say cut off. So, to use the desire... the anger, the cupidity, the greed and delusions as transformative energy to grow out of it, right, to transform. So that's very important. But, you know, he's saying just don't get caught by the world.

[62:55]

Don't get caught by the world. And the world catches us. It catches us all the time. And then when it catches us, he's saying, sit down and reflect on being caught. Now, Alan? I also think that this teaching is for the sake of the world. Doing what? Yeah, for the sake of the world. Somebody asked me in this class yesterday, Thich Nhat Hanh says something to the effect, well, you know, you can't make peace unless you are at peace. Right. And they were asking me about this. Does that mean you get rid of all of your emotions? I said, I don't think so. nature of impermanence.

[64:06]

And when you can do that, then you create peace around it, but it also means enduring a lot. Well, that's right. I remember, Kadagiri always used to say, we have to endure the unendurable. That's right, he'd say that all the time. We have to endure the unendurable, that's true. You have to be able to suffer to accept the suffering. And Suzuki Roshi, I remember we would sit Sashin, he'd say, there are all these people out there suffering, and here we are sitting Sashin. Stop complaining about your legs hurting. Stop worrying about your own little problems when there are all these people in the world suffering.

[65:12]

Why should you be trying to make yourself happy doing Zazen? Well, you see, he says there are people who enter the world as expedients, right? He says right here. Although as an expedient teaching, they lived ordinary lives. So that's, you know, the advanced practice is to live an ordinary life in the world without being attached to it. That's lay practice. which is an advanced practice, actually. That's why it's a difficult, very difficult lay practice in its true sense, because it's the most advanced practice. But don't complain.

[66:14]

Somebody in the back, this lady here, Most ideas of heaven and hell, for instance, you mentioned the 32 levels of heaven and hell. Is that really Buddhist or is it Taoist? No, it's Buddhist. Oh, okay, so Buddhism actually does have heaven and hell. Heavens and hells. Heavens and hells. Yeah, and they're all descripted. Yeah. And I can... Maybe next time I'll bring something to, they're all very interesting. But they're places that, you know, that you transmigrate to or migrate to. And then when your karma has played itself out, then you migrate to another, either higher or lower realm, depending on, but you know, this is, it's all metaphorical.

[67:24]

So in transforming the afflicted emotions, you would say that we transform them, and so in sitting, is this to be be with them with detachment. Is that how we transform? Yeah, just to be with whatever comes up without taking it up. And this is also, you know, I was thinking about talking about this more, but I will. What do we do with the feelings and emotions and the, you know, the bad stuff that comes up? Do we try to get rid of it or what? Or how do we transform it and so forth? When we have a fruit, persimmon is really a good example. Persimmon, a Western persimmon.

[68:28]

not a Japanese persimmon, but a Western persimmon. They're different. When you bite into it until it's ripe, it's very astringent, you know, and terrible. So you have to wait until it's exactly, all the conditions create a ripe persimmon, and then it becomes very sweet, because that astringency is necessary for the sweetness. if the persimmon wasn't astringent in the beginning, then it wouldn't be sweet in the end. So how did that happen? Well, you know, if we practice with our astringency, you know, our bitterness or whatever, and on a fruit, on a tree, the sun shines on the fruit, and that's what makes it sweet, right?

[69:29]

So the sunshine of practice is what ripens our bitter fruit, you know. So as long as we're facing Buddha, facing Buddha, facing practice, then at the right time, over time, that ripening process takes place. And what was bitter and astringent becomes ripe and sweet. So patience is really the main ingredient for practice. So, you know, I see all kinds of students, you know, who have all these problems. People say, geez, you know, these Zen students have so many problems. The students have all these problems just like everybody else. But over time, if one persists in practice and really faces practice, like facing the wind, actually, facing the stiff wind and just going ahead with it, that process takes place.

[70:42]

And I've seen many bitter, astringent people become very mature and sweet. I'm hearing an orientation toward or a preference for a particular flavor. And I like sweet things also. And people will put sugar and milk in their coffee because it's too bitter otherwise. Can you talk a little bit about the six tastes and how we can appreciate the different flavors or tastes in our life and just accepting that and being with that rather than I don't want to have these sort of bitter, astringent feelings toward myself or toward George Bush or whatever. So, it's like we can have our preferences and want warm, sweet things, but generally… Well, sweet is just a metaphor for virtue.

[71:47]

So salt has its virtue as salt. Bitterness has its virtue as bitterness, right? Sweetness has its virtue as sweetness. So we could talk about what makes something bitter, but when we talk about sweet, You know, sweet doesn't mean to put sugar in things. It means something, some natural maturation. So sweet is a metaphor for maturation. So when we're talking about maturation, we're not talking about flavors. No sugar added. I'm kind of puzzling over something you said a while ago about there not being collective karma. Oh yeah.

[72:52]

Because it seems to me that, you know, institutions are born and they die and, you know, as Caucasian American, I have a certain amount of karma that's not the result of my, the direct result of my specific action. Not the result of my specific personal actions. It's more the result of sort of a bigger picture. So could you say that? Well, I think you could call that cause and effect without calling it karma. Because strictly speaking, karma is a person's volitional action which does not transfer to others. The result does not transfer to others. So a corporation or a country or a group can have, create a cause which creates an effect.

[73:55]

So that's the realm of cause and effect. Karma is also cause and effect. It's simply cause and effect. But the word karma, I think, is simply a designation for a person's volitional action. But it's extended. People extend it to a nation or a group. And so I don't want to argue with that. It's okay. I mean, we can call it that. We can call it group karma or whatever. But strictly speaking, it's a stretch. That's all. But sure, it's national karma. But that's not the original meaning. That's what I, according to my study. But that doesn't mean that cause and effect can't, we just set aside the term karma and use it only for individual people, that's fine, but if we want to observe cause and effect, we see that we're caught in a much bigger web of cause and effect.

[75:04]

That's right, than our personal karma. Yes, that's right. Yeah. That's what I would say. And at least the commentaries say that the karma of that situation, whether it was collective karma or some individual, say the king's karma, the karma of that Well, let me say this about that.

[76:12]

That the king's karma had a terrific result because the king is at the pinnacle of the country, right? So what that person does affects everybody. But it's his karma which causes so much devastation. One person's karma, the result of one person's karma can cause devastation to myriads of people, but it's not their karma, it's simply their ... because when we say, well it's somebody's karma that they were caught in this

[76:52]

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