I have two comments before we start. One is, when it's hot, we should open up all the windows. We don't have to do that now, but in the afternoon, before Zazen, we should open up all the windows so that when we do that horizontally, a breeze is inducted. The other thing is, the other morning, Saturday afternoon, we had a little session with the Chidins who arranged the altar. And a lot of you were there. And one of the things that I wanted to stress was, when you arrange the altar, don't cover anything up. In other words, don't put one thing in front of another.

[01:03]

So to find a place where everything, all the pieces are revealed and nothing is covering something else. Because the one in the back will say, wait a minute, how rude of you. So when I came I arranged, oh that's good, when I came, I rearranged the altar so that Samantabhadra was not covered up by the stone. I'm just going to read up to where we are.

[02:08]

There's a certain kind of continuity and flow, you know, which when you read the Agengokon, you feel that flow, but when we talk about it, the flow is kind of interrupted because we're thinking about each particular sentence. So it's good to read up to the point so you get some feeling for the flow. So Dogen says, when all dharmas are buddhadharma, there are enlightenment and delusion, practice, life and death, birth and death, buddhas and creatures. When the 10,000 dharmas are without self, there are no delusion, no enlightenment, no Buddhas, no creatures, no life, and no death. The Buddha way transcends being and non-being. Therefore, there are life and death, delusion and enlightenment, creatures and Buddhas. Nevertheless, flowers fall with our attachment, grasping, and weeds, or delusions, spring up with our aversion.

[03:23]

Then he says, to carry the self forward and realize the 10,000 dharmas is delusion. That the 10,000 dharmas advance and realize the self is enlightenment. It is Buddhas who enlighten delusion, and it is creatures who are deluded in enlightenment. Further, there are those who attain enlightenment above enlightenment, and there are those who are deluded within delusion. When Buddhas are truly Buddhas, one need not be aware of being Buddha. However, one is the realized Buddha and further advances in realizing Buddha. Seeing forms with a whole body in mind, hearing sounds with a whole body in mind, one understands them intimately, yet it is not like a mirror with reflections, nor like water under the moon. When one side is realized, the other side is dark. Then he says,

[04:38]

To study the Buddha way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas. To be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas is to free one's body and mind and those of others. No trace of enlightenment remains and this traceless enlightenment is continued forever. which brings us to our study tonight. So Dogen says, by the way, everybody have the place? Did everybody study the text? Good. When one first seeks the truth, one separates oneself far from its environs. When one has already correctly transmitted the truth to oneself, one is one's original self at that moment.

[05:45]

When riding in a boat, if one watches the shore, one may assume that the shore is moving. But watching the boat directly, one knows that it is the boat that moves. If one examines the 10,000 dharmas with a deluded body and mind, one will suppose that one's mind and nature are permanent. But if one practices intimately and returns to the true self, it will be clear that the 10,000 dharmas are without self. So that's a lot, but it all goes together. Taking the first sentence, When one first seeks the truth, one separates oneself from its environs. So I used to think that that sentence meant, when one first seeks the truth, one feels separate from the truth.

[06:47]

Because if you didn't feel separate from it, you wouldn't seek it. But actually, think of it this way, when one seeks the truth, one separates oneself. The act of seeking is separating. So this is a big koan, and this is a koan of Nansen and Joshu. Joshu asks Nansen, what is the way? And Nansen says, well, everyday activity, everyday mind is the way, ordinary mind is the way. Ordinary, of course, this word ordinary has lots of meanings. Ordinary mind is the way. Well, shall I seek for it or what? And Nansen says, if you seek for it, you stumble past.

[07:49]

And if you don't seek for it, you fall into confusion. So, seeking and not seeking. If you don't do something, it won't manifest. And if you do seek for it, you stumble past it. So, how does, that's, that's our goal, because, What you seek is what you already have. So there's really nothing to seek because everything, your whole, you as you are, are Buddha nature. But this is where Dogen's teaching, this is the pivot point of Dogen's teaching, that although all beings are Buddha nature, it doesn't manifest without practice.

[08:53]

It's like you may feel that you have a nice automobile out there, maybe a BMW or something, and you say, that's my car. But it is potentially an automobile. But the automobile doesn't become an automobile till you open the door, put the key in, turn on the ignition, step on that starter, and drive away. This is Dogen talking about the man in the boat. Same thing. The boat is the boat, but the boat doesn't actually become a boat until you step into the boat and raise the sail and sail away. So even though we have, our endowment is Buddha nature, it doesn't manifest as enlightenment until we make the effort of practice.

[10:03]

But if you make the effort of practice in order to be enlightened, then it becomes a big problem. Then you stumble past. So this is why Dogen, and especially Suzuki Roshi, never emphasized enlightenment. He always emphasized practice. Because if you emphasize enlightenment, then you're going after something. But by emphasizing practice, you're not seeking something, you're simply being totally real, and enlightenment manifests. And, Nowadays, people don't come around saying that they're seeking enlightenment so much. In the old days, people used to do that a lot.

[11:05]

But nowadays, people more or less accept practice as practice and understand this better. But in the old days, a lot of people were more enlightenment seekers and in the especially, there were a lot of teachers that came to, a number of teachers that came to America, and their practice was to force Kensho experience, to produce a Kensho experience. And that was pretty big in the 60s. But then as it turned out, It didn't quite work that way. And little by little, people started becoming more, having more faith in Suzuki Roshi style of practice, which was simply practicing for the sake of practice and not trying to force a Kensho experience.

[12:13]

So he says, when one seeks the truth, the dharma, the truth, the reality, or you could say enlightenment, one separates oneself far from its environs. So seeking is separation because it implies a seeker and something sought. So that's separation. So then he says, when one has already correctly transmitted the truth to oneself, one is one's original self at that moment. So how do we transmit the truth to ourself? There's another koan, a book record, which

[13:25]

I can't remember who exactly it was, but the gist of the koan is in all of the whole country of China, there is no Zen teacher. But what about all those teachers that are teaching Zen? I didn't say there was no Zen, I simply said there was no Zen teacher. So, what is a Zen teacher? A Zen teacher cannot give you anything, but a teacher can help to guide you to find your own intrinsic Buddha mind. But you have to find it yourself. You have to manifest it yourself.

[14:29]

But the teacher is important in helping you to do that. But the teacher doesn't teach you how to do it. Often people want answers. but answers don't really help. Actually, often when you're really in a state of despair or confusion or difficulty, that's very critical and not so bad. because it gives you the opportunity to break through in some way. In our practice of Zazen, Sishin gives us that opportunity.

[15:41]

If we stay with the difficulty and don't try to get out of the difficulty, then there comes a point where you can't stay and you can't leave. And that's a critical point where you open up and allow yourself to drop away. So that's the important point in Sashin. So when we try to make things easy for ourself, it makes it more comfortable sitting. But it doesn't help in the long run. This is hard to, you know, to force that. We don't like to force that. But staying with the difficulty,

[16:44]

is what gives you the opportunity to drop off body and mind. And then the truth is communicated to you through your own effort. So he says, when one has already correctly transmitted the truth to oneself, one is one's original self at that moment. So then one is free from attachment, free from self, and free from dharma. So then he says, when riding on a boat, if one watches the shore, one may assume that the shore is moving. But watching the boat directly, one knows that it is the boat that moves.

[17:47]

So we do get that illusion, right? Sometimes we think that we're standing still and the world is turning around us. So this is kind of the idea of ourself as stable and in the center and the world revolves around us. Dharmas revolve around us. and we relate to these dharmas. But when we see directly, we know that it is the boat that moves, but it is the boat that's moving. But the boat and the shore are moving. Everything is moving. It's not that there is some stable thing. But in this analogy, It's like self-endowments, like the boat is our self, and the shore is all the things around us.

[19:01]

So, you know, in the Platform Sutra, the sixth patriarch comes back after being on sabbatical for 15 years, enters the monastery, and he sees these two monks arguing over the flag. And one monk says, is it the flag that's moving or the wind that's moving? And Parinong says, well, it's not the flag, it's not the wind, it's your mind that moves. And then there's a further comment which, it's not the flag, it's not the wind, and it's not the mind. But for this purpose, it's good to say it's the mind that moves. Not the flag, it's not the wind. So, is it the shore that's moving or is it the boat that's moving?

[20:20]

It's your mind that's moving. If one examines the 10,000 dharmas or the diluted body and mind, One must suppose that one's mind and nature are permanent. So that's the point. So when we think that it's the shore that's moving, we think that our mind and nature are permanent. We know that our mind and nature are not permanent. We know that. Everybody knows that. But the meaning is that even though we know that, we act as if it's not. I mean, we act as if it is permanent, you know. So this is our, somehow, because we're so much part of life that we just think that we'll just be here forever.

[21:24]

And that, you know, we just have that idea. and it's hard to think otherwise, especially in our stable society. But more than that, what it deeply means is that we think that we have an immortal soul. So this, in Buddhism, Buddhadharma, the idea that Buddha Dharma denies the idea of a soul, and a soul, the meaning of soul is that there is, and especially in Indian philosophy or Indian religion, is that there is a permanent thing, and sometimes they describe it as like a small light, is that me?

[22:27]

a small something, entity that is your soul, and it transmigrates. It is permanent, but in each birth, there is a body that grows around it. So it's like the essential thing. The essential thing which transmigrates from birth to birth. and that's called the immortal soul in Indian religion. So the body, in each birth, the body and consciousness appear and develop and die, but that immortal soul, which is described in various ways, continues. birth after birth.

[23:44]

So this is the essence of Indian religious philosophy. But Buddhism, Dogen, I mean, Shakyamuni Buddha denied the existence of that soul. So he said there are only dharmas coming together and creating shapes and forms and disintegrating. They integrate and then they disintegrate, deintegrate. And this process is continuously going on, but there is no soul within each existence. That's why we say all dharmas have no inherent self. All the five skandhas have no inherent self. That's exactly what that means.

[24:45]

So in Buddhism, it's called heretical view, to think that there is that immortal soul. And there is the Shrenika heresy. In Buddha's time, there was a monk who, after Buddha passed away, was, declaring this idea that Buddha's, what Buddha was preaching was that there was a immortal soul that keeps transmigrating. And I think it was maybe during Buddha's time, and Buddha, he and Buddha had some, conversation in which Buddha denied his understanding, showed him how his understanding was not correct, actually. So Doggen often talks about the Srenica heresy and about how at certain times Buddhists take this up and present it as Buddhism, but we shouldn't do that.

[26:04]

So that's actually the essence of what he's saying here. If one examines the 10,000 dharmas with the diluted body and mind, one will suppose that one's mind and nature are permanent. He didn't say my body, he says mind and nature, meaning soul. people interact, and at the end of the story he says, and that one was me and that one was you, to the person he's telling the story to. Well, if you read all the Jataka tales, at the end of the Jataka tales, all the characters say, oh, and this one was you, and this one was me, and that was Buddha, you know. So how do we reconcile those two? Those are tales.

[27:07]

Even in the Lotus Sutra? Yeah, in the Lotus Sutra, it's just fairytale. Sorry, the lotus engine. Okay, so the Tibetans believe that there is a transmigration and reincarnation and so forth. This is a Buddhist, an Indian philosophical religious idea that It was very prevalent at the time, and so these kinds of ideas were so common that people speak of them in that way, but they're not meant to be taken literally. I would say I don't believe that they're meant to be taken literally, because if they're meant to be taken literally, that's how you create superstition.

[28:07]

by taking tales and believing in them literally. So if you see them as tales, in the last life that was me and this was you, just hold that. But if you believe in that, then you start believing in reincarnation. Now, there is theory in Buddhism. See, Buddhism sometimes comes close to the theory of the Shrenika heresy, by talking about rebirth. But rebirth is not reincarnation. Even though there's rebirth, it's not like there's an immortal soul that goes from one life to another.

[29:13]

The habit energy, the energy of active energy is continued. But that energy which continues is always in transformation, but there's no self in it. So, supposing we have an apple tree, or they actually use the analogy of a banyan tree, because a banyan tree You keep peeling off the layers and it looks like a tree and it's got shape and form and breathes carbon dioxide or whatever, but you take all the leaves off, all the trunk off, and there's nothing there. But yet, it's a tree. And those trees keep appearing. Is it the same tree or is it a different tree?

[30:16]

Well, it's the same and it's different, but that tree doesn't have an immortal soul, but the trees just like it keep growing up and are influenced by that tree. So, one analogy is that if you have two candles and one of them is lit, and you light one candle with the other, now both candles are lit. So, is it the same light or is it a different light? This is the Buddhist analogy that's always given. It's very stereotyped. Is it the same light or is it a different light? Well, it's the same and it's different, but it's not. When one entity influences the energy and takes another form,

[31:24]

That form is also empty. That's what we call emptiness. All forms are empty in their own being. So if all forms weren't empty in their own being, then you can make a case for there is an entity that travels from one lifetime to another. But being empty means that there's only transformation. So life is continuous. Life is continuous. and to say, well, that was me in my last lifetime, you know, and this is, that's Buddhist mythology. But I don't think it's meant to be taken literally. It's talking about transformation rather than reincarnation. It's a vehicle for talking about transformation rather than talking about reincarnation. That's my understanding.

[32:26]

But people construe it the other way because it's easy to do. The easiest thing to do is to fall into reincarnation. It's very, God, how convenient that is. I don't have to worry anymore. That's true. I mean, it's very tempting. I don't have to worry about that anymore. I don't have to worry about dying anymore because I'll be reborn. If I'm a good boy, I'll be reborn again. So it's very helpful, but Buddhism goes further, but not all Buddhism. Sun Buddha stays there. The Tibetans have a whole culture based on reincarnation. And I can't fault them for that. Everybody wants to be secure, right? We all want to be secure.

[33:27]

And if we just, okay, I'll just believe in it, and that makes me secure. But how can you find security and not fall into that? I'm not saying it's, I think it's okay to do that. You know, whatever people find that helps them to feel secure is fine as long as it's not harmful. You know, that's what I think. But talking and saying, Buddhist dharma is not like that. So there are gradations of Buddhist belief. I mean, in the Pure Land School, you simply believe in Amitabha. I mean, you realize, you just chant the name of Amitabha Buddha in order to be saved by Amitabha Buddha and be born in the Pure Land, in the West, and you don't have to do anything.

[34:33]

It creates a stable, kind of stability in people, which I can't fault that. D.T. Suzuki, actually, was drawn to that. There's truth in it, but Zen practice Our understanding is to not stop there. It's too convenient. Did you want to say something? I'm just worried about what gets reborn. Are you worried about that? Well, if there's no reincarnation, how can we talk about rebirth?

[35:38]

Oh, rebirth is not reincarnation. Reincarnation means that you appear. But, you know, when rebirth is not you reappear, you have to understand rebirth in a bigger sense. And that your true self is the universe. And if you identify with me only, as a separate entity, then you start thinking about reincarnation. But if you identify with life itself and the flow and flux of life, then whatever form the energy that is produced by you takes is fine. There's nothing to worry about because it's all one piece. But it's not that you are reborn, it's just that rebirth is constantly taking place.

[36:47]

But what we fear is losing consciousness of me. That's the problem. So by fear of losing consciousness of me, we grasp at things. So, and then because we're afraid to let go of ourself. I mean, we're a good reason. We're all afraid to let go, to lose ourself. But the fact is that there's no real self to lose. So we're all part of the stream, you know. And it's interesting because in Buddhism, it's called the stream enterer. And we think, well, that means entering the stream of Buddhism. But really what it means, I think, is allowing yourself to realize that you're part of the stream and the dream, the stream, and allowing yourself to be flowed

[38:01]

It's guided flowing. Guided flowing. And you can see the transformations taking place and you can see how the transformations are happening in you. So this is the advantage, good advantage of old age, is that you become much more conscious of the transformations. and losing, you know, more conscious of losing self, letting go of self. So the more you know how to let go of self, actually old age doesn't have to be suffering, but it can be enlightening. Anyway, oh yeah. Okay, what's that again?

[39:06]

Okay, so I would like us to just stand up for a minute and then sit down again. Okay, then he says, but if one practices intimately, you hear me, and returns to the true self, it will be clear that the 10,000 dharmas are without a self. So true self is no self. Or true self is big self. So emptiness means fullness. We say empty, empty, and people are looking for something empty. But empty means full, total. So there's a saying, there is no self in the sage because there is no self, there is nothing which is not the self.

[40:17]

The deluded person sees herself as other and the sage sees others as herself. So one thing about this kind of understanding is people fall into extreme views. We fall into the view of eternalism and we fall into the view of annihilation. So eternalism is like the soul idea, the soul theory, that there is this eternal soul that continues forever and transmigrates from one life to another.

[41:23]

And then there's the annihilation theory, which after this life, boom, there's nothing, which is not the same as emptiness. Emptiness is the space in which everything changes. So without emptiness, there's no transformation. So therefore, everything is empty. And there's only transformation. Everything changes is the fundamental understanding of Buddhism. So to go, you know, we say go with the flow, man, but it's true. It's not dated. This is called the middle way.

[42:28]

Middle way is between eternalism and annihilation. And eternalism is not right, quite right. And annihilation is not quite right. So, but there is a kind of, because things change and nothing remains, it looks like annihilation. And because things keep going on, it looks like, and continue, it looks like eternalism. But it's not easily defined. But it's neither birth nor death. Birth and death are the two extremes of life. So life is continuous.

[43:34]

That's not my dog. Life is continuous, but it includes birth and death. And Dogen talks about this. Life is one total, or birth is one total side of life. And death is one total side of life. He talks about that later on. So, this second part, this is a toughie. He talks about firewood and ash. This is one of the most controversial parts of Dogen's Gendrokon, where he talks about firewood and ash. So he says, firewood, so he's talking about the flow of life, right?

[44:34]

Firewood turns into ash and does not turn into firewood again. But do not suppose that the ash is after and the firewood is before. We must realize that firewood is in a state of being firewood and has its before and after. Yet having this before and after, it is independent of them. Ash is in the state of being ash and has its before and after. Just as firewood does not become firewood again after it is ash, so after one's death, one does not return to life again. So this is very interesting, isn't it? Just what we were talking about. Which sounds different than usual reincarnation. But Dogen also talks about of the life, another life.

[45:37]

So, you know, it's all a way of speaking. We have to understand when we get into this realm of birth and death and life, it's all pointing to something. And whatever we say should not be taken as concrete concepts, but as a way of trying to understand how things work, rather than trying to make dogmatic statements about this is the way it is. You're always trying to understand how birth, death, and life work together. So, just as firewood does not become firewood again after it is ash, so after one's death, one does not return to life again. Thus, that life does not become death is a confirmed teaching of the Buddhadharma. For this reason, life is called the non-born.

[46:38]

That death does not become life is a confirmed teaching of the Buddhadharma. Therefore, death is called the non-extinguished. Life is a period of itself. Death is a period of itself. For example, they are like winter and spring. We do not think that winter becomes spring, nor do we say that spring becomes summer. So what he's talking about here is everything is in its dharma position. Every dharma is in its position in the universe. And each dharma covers the whole universe. So at the same time, that we have the ephemeral changing or continuously changing dharma position, each moment's position is an eternal moment.

[47:42]

So there's not a separation between this moment and some eternal moment, or so-called eternity. Eternity is ongoing. It's not really ongoing. It's like this moment is always this moment. And nothing can ever change that. This moment is always this moment. and this moment is always this moment. So he says firewood turns into ash or becomes ash and does not return to firewood again. So that's like saying, it's funny that he says turns into because then he says one thing doesn't turn into something else. So he's saying something two ways.

[48:57]

It seems like, our perception, when he says firewood turns into ash, he means, I think he means that's our perception. Our perception is that firewood, you light a fire, and you sing, cross your legs and sing campfire songs, and in the morning it's all ash, right? And it doesn't become firewood again. Ash is ash, and firewood is firewood. And they're just two different things. They're not the same thing. The ash does not become firewood again. There's nothing that persists. Suzuki Roshi says, you can explain it, but your explanation cannot be perfect. I think we have to understand that. So then he says, but do not suppose that the ash is after and the firewood is before. But that's our thinking.

[50:00]

The firewood is first, then the ash, and that the firewood turns into ash. Nishiyari, in his commentary, talks about tofu and beans. I think I've told you this before. He said, if you ask tofu, or said something to Tofu, do you know that you were once soybeans? Tofu would say, are you kidding? What's a soybean? So, here we are, human beings, we call ourselves human beings. But what came before and what's coming after, we have no idea. We just are who we are. We just are what we are on each moment. So on this moment, this moment has its past and all of the conditions that have led to this moment.

[51:04]

And this moment has its future. But the next moment has its past and the next moment has its future. So each moment has its own history, its own past and future, and is independent of every other moment. And at the same time, it looks like it's flowing. So we must realize that firewood is in the state of being firewood and has its before and after. Yet having this before and after, it is independent of them. So we have our history, and because of the conditions, conditioning of our history, we have appeared as who we are. And then there is the so-called future, which is just simply an idea, because the future may never arrive.

[52:10]

Not that there's something to arrive, it's just an idea we have. We say the future will arrive. But there is no future out there that's arriving. We can just call it that. There's only this present moment. So this present moment is actually free from past, free from future. Yet it's related to past and related to the future which is just an idea. but at the same time, each moment is totally independent. So this independence, so in the Sandokai, if you read Suzuki Goshi's lectures on the Sandokai, in Branching Streams Flow Through the Darkness, he uses the word independency. And I said, I never heard of the word independency before. He said, I just made it up. But it's his word, his term for

[53:13]

We're not completely independent and we're not completely dependent. It's like in between, fuzzy math. It's like we have the feeling of independence, but actually we're totally dependent on everything. So really, we are totally dependent. on everything, and at the same time, we feel that we're independent. So it's not quite one or the other, it's independency. So things are not as dogmatically solid as we think. Nothing is really that solid. Things are malleable. Everything is malleable. There's nothing concrete. So just as firewood, so ash is, firewood has its before and after, yet having this before and after, it is independent of them.

[54:20]

Ash is in the state of being ash and has its before and after. Just as firewood does not become firewood again after it is ash, so after one's death, one does not return to life again. So if something is truly alive, then is it ever dead? If something is alive, how can it be dead? And if something is dead, how can it be alive? But we think in terms of, well, something's dead and something's alive, because we think in terms of appearance and disappearance, or vitality and loss of vitality. But when you reduce everything to its fundamental, there's no such thing as life and death or birth and death. It's simply the way we, our mind is moving.

[55:24]

It's the way we construe it. It's the way we perceive it. We perceive it as birth and death, as life and death, birth and death. So just as firewood does not become firewood again after it is ash, so after one's death, one does not return to life again. Thus, that life does not become death is a confirmed teaching of the Buddha Dharma. For this reason, life is called the non-born. that death does not become life is a confirmed teaching in the Buddha Dharma. Therefore, death is called the non-extinguished. That's just the opposite of the way we usually think. So... It's really complicated.

[56:29]

Oh, it is. I'm not sure why. Okay. So, um, So he says life is a period of itself, and death is a period of itself. For example, they are like winter and spring. We do not think that winter becomes spring, nor do we say that spring becomes summer. So, You know, Dogen has this understanding of the total exertion of one dharma.

[57:53]

Total exertion of one dharma means something like each dharma manifests itself completely on each moment. So when we live our life moment by moment, completely, we're free from birth and death. So our understanding of impermanence leads to liberation. Not liberation from impermanence and death, but liberation within impermanence and death.

[58:57]

So, usually, people try to find freedom from birth and death. But for Dogon, we find our freedom within birth and death. In other words, instead of trying to escape from birth and death, we totally throw ourselves into birth, within birth, and totally throw ourselves into death, within death. So when we are alive, so to speak, totally be alive. Totally exert yourself within life. And within death, totally exert yourself within death.

[60:00]

My understanding of this is that instead of worrying about dying, to make our effort on each moment in this life. And to make our total effort in this moment, moment by moment within this life, death takes care of itself. This living moment by moment totally is the ending of an identification with the Self. Yes, when you live totally moment by moment, that's called dropping the self. So this is zazen. Zazen is living your life one moment at a time, totally, with total exertion. Total exertion of one dharma, moment by moment. That's zazen, when it's done correctly.

[61:05]

This is why I'm always saying to people when they sit Zazen, there's nothing but posture and breathing. And I'll say, there's nothing but posture and breathing, but it just kind of goes through. Sometimes I have people come and say, why didn't you ever say that before? One thing that I really don't, don't like is when someone says, how can we never talk about blah, blah, blah? I'd rather you say, can we talk about blah, blah, blah? But if you say, how can we never do that? Then it assumes that something's lacking. But if you simply say, Can we talk about da-da-da? Sure, let's do that. No problem. But not to imply that it's never happened before.

[62:08]

Yes. So Sao Zen is about posture and breath. Yes. Sitting, walking, eating, sleeping. Yes. Yes, but it's about total presence. At any time. All the time. Yes, it's living your life moment by moment, totally. That's why Zen practice, if you go to the monastery, there's chopping vegetables, sweeping the grounds, just doing minor tasks that are major, but ordinary tasks, so that you can really pay attention without too much discursive thinking. That's why Zazen, you don't have to think about anything. All you have to do is be present with total exertion. Just be present.

[63:14]

That's why we concentrate on the body and the breath. You're totally exerting effort in posture, moment by moment, and allowing your mind to follow the breath. and harmonizing body, mind, and breath totally with the universe, moment by moment. So you don't have to worry about birth or death. It's all included. You get the whole thing. You know, when you do sit, there's no anxiety, there's no worry. You may need to be worrying about things, but it's not really cold or hot excessively. It's, you know, harmonious activity, which

[64:16]

And each moment is a timeless moment, even though somebody rings the bell at a certain point. Even though when your legs start hurting, you think, oh, I wish it was over. Then it's over. But when you don't think that, it's just a timeless moment. Nancy? I'm just wondering if, of wanting to be of service in this life. If that, somehow I was wrapping my brain around, couldn't wrap my brain around that concept and what you were saying quite right now. If we're living moment to moment, sometimes I feel that carrying around a necessity to be of help or to be useful in this lifetime

[65:24]

creates a burden that, living moment to moment. There's no contradiction. Where's the contradiction? Why is that a contradiction? This is why whatever you do, you do thoroughly. When you help somebody, you help them thoroughly, without self-interest. But what if you're tired and don't want to help anybody? They come here and I'll give you a whack. We all get tired and all this. It's good to be tired. It's a wonderful feeling being tired. When you're really working hard, when you're really working hard and you're tired, it's a wonderful feeling. That's my experience.

[66:26]

Main thing is, if you worry too much about yourself, then you have a problem. So, just give yourself and be tired. But don't worry about it. And don't worry about working yourself to death. No, just die. Now, I noticed when I was reading this, because in prior times we've been reading it, you would often, instead of using life and death, you would use the word birth and death. And when I was reading this before, I had a little bit, I had a hard time understanding it, but when you started going ahead, because I was swapping birth with life, and somehow You read through most of this using the words life and death, not birth and death. And it's kind of made sense that way.

[67:31]

Was that intentional that you didn't use it? Yeah, to me it makes more sense to say birth and death than life and death. Because life is not the opposite of death. Birth is the opposite of death. However, in this, I did, yeah, I just read it as it is. But it made more sense to me. But good. Did you mean to do that? Well, it's somewhat interchangeable. Sometimes, you know, you use the word, sometimes it makes sense to say life and death. So in here, in some way it made more sense to say life and death. But usually I like to use birth and death as opposites. because then it leaves life free. It's my trump card. Because it trumps birth and death.

[68:35]

So winter and spring. Winter is just winter. But it doesn't turn into spring, even though we, you know, oh no, it's becoming spring. I can see the buds, you know, stuff like that. But strictly speaking, winter is winter and spring is spring. So, you know, to transcend birth and death is to be completely alive within birth and completely alive within death. So this is the Buddha within birth and death. When Dogen talks about it, he has another fascicle called Uji, birth and death. And he talks about There is no Buddha in birth and death, and there is a Buddha within birth.

[69:45]

Two Zen masters are talking. One is saying there is no Buddha within birth and death, and the other is saying there is a Buddha within birth and death. It's a matter of how you look at it. Yes, well the whole thing is transformation. So that's why we say turning into. Turning into implies transformation. But he's talking about the independence of things. So sometimes he's talking about the transformation of things and sometimes he's talking about the independence of things. So here, when he says, for example, winter is winter and spring is spring, right? He says life is a period of itself, death is a period of itself.

[70:48]

So he's talking about the independence of life and the independence of death. But he's also talking about that within life there's death and within death there's life. You can't have it just one way, except that each is independent. It's independent, and at the same time, one is in it with... Now we say, is this life or is this death? Is this life or is this death? Well, we say, well, this is life. It's colorful, and we move around, and we breathe, and we're alive, right? But you can just as easily say, this is death. Because this moment is already gone, never to return. So which is it? Is this life or is this death?

[71:48]

Is this birth or is this death? A moment of birth is a moment of death. And a moment of dying is a moment of birth. And it just keeps, each moment is like that. Each moment is a moment of birth, each moment is a moment of dying. But we die and we come back to life. And so life itself is continuous even though it includes birth and death on each moment. Britt? Now, fully alive, I plunge into the yellow springs. Yeah, that's his death poem.

[72:56]

So, it's five minutes to nine. If you don't have any other questions, please read the text for next time. I'm glad we got through both of those, even though it's just cursory, of course. We could be talking about those for a long time, but I'm glad. I think our progress is good, because to get through this in time will be etric. So please study.

[74:11]

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