Mitsu came to this country at this time in order to attend the Abbott installation of Catherine Thames in Santa Cruz. And that was a weekend ago, I think. And so he's here for a short time. we're really fortunate to have him come and visit us. I usually say that he's Suzuki Roshi's son, but I like to introduce him on his own merits. So, I don't want to emphasize that. I have such great and wonderful respect for his teaching and his character, and every time we meet, it is very uplifting for me.

[01:06]

So, Oitsu had a talk that he was going to give, but what happened, either yesterday or the day before, was another of our Japanese teachers, Goldman Chino, Roshi unexpectedly died. For all of you who knew him, I'm sure that's quite a shock. He was in Switzerland. and we want to talk a little bit about Jiro-sensei. So, I'm going to say a little bit first, and then as an introduction, and then Harisa will speak.

[02:15]

I first met Jiro-sensei when he came in 1960 He was invited by the Los Altos group, Zen group, to be a teacher. And he was a very young man at the time. And so he came and Suzuki Roshi diverted him and put him in Tassajara. And he stayed there for several years. And before was in the summertime. And so I've known him, you know, intimately for all this time.

[03:16]

And I studied with him and did sushis with him. And I did his wedding a few years ago to his present wife. And he had two children from his first marriage and three from the present. So it's a great shock for all of us. And he contributed a lot to Zen in America. One of our last Japanese teachers who came to America in our tradition. So I know that, what's your son? Konnichiwa. Long time ago, I was sitting in the Tathagata Zen hall.

[05:09]

After the Zen, question and answer, Somebody questioned me, do you like Zazen? At the time I asked, I don't. People, really? At the time, this meeting, Zazen is not a problem like, or not like, not this problem.

[06:23]

And after, sitting in Tassahara Zendo, after Zazen question and answer, same body, same person asked me, do you like Zazen? And I said, He asked me, you still don't like Zazen? And I said, don't see any time, every time, any time. Don't see any time same view. Maybe little change.

[07:37]

I am little change. Now, if somebody ask me now, would you like Zazen? Yeah, I do. A little bit. Not enough. My temple is a little big. Little big? It's a big temple. Used to be nobody come for Zazen. Nobody. Just one time a month Zen group come and sit Zazen and lecture.

[08:52]

Now, small people come and sitting in the morning Not so early 6 o'clock Almost same here? No, earlier, earlier, early morning Because... Because... Namakemono. Lazy. Lazy monk. Because lazy priest. But everyone come. Two, three people. I was sitting in a zendo.

[09:58]

People come, come for car, drive. I listen, I heard a sound, oh, coming. Oh, they are coming, good. Sometimes, nobody came. A little... Confused... No... Glad... Sad. A little bit sad.

[11:02]

And this time I think for myself. My zazen is for who? Zazen is for you. For other people, my zazen is not real way. Sitting is just only me. At this time, my mind is... stable? Subtle. Yeah. Subtle, yeah.

[12:10]

Sit down, yeah. Safe. Peaceful. Quiet. If I want something, Come. Please come. Please come. My mind not safe. Now I like by the Zen. Sometimes students, people, ask me something to talk about Zazen.

[13:14]

Please. And I say, Zazen is Zazen, not war. not speak cannot speak but if you want something sound listen your breath breath Listening ear don't want to other. Zazen is already stay, arrive, object place.

[14:42]

We won't come to here. Zazen doesn't sit. We don't want to come from here to other place. No need. We take already object place. Objects. Think. Dogen Zenji.

[15:51]

Sorry. Dogen said, forget youth already now. Forget your mind and body, and throw into the Buddha house. That's okay.

[16:58]

That's all right. Okay. forget my mind, forget my body, and throw away into the Buddha house. What is the Buddha house? Where? If we don't understand where, what, what is Buddha Hall, Buddha House, we cannot throw in my mind, my body.

[18:19]

What? What is Buddha House? My way, I think, to the house is my Zazen body. Zen body. Zen form. Posture. [...] This form. Through in... Through in myself to Buddha whole.

[19:38]

My... Zen home. This is my, this is my Buddha, Buddha house. And I breathe, breath, doing breath. in a Buddha house. This is my field, my way. Don't, don't watch, watching, found, look around, look under, don't.

[21:01]

Where is the Buddha house? Where is Buddha? No. Don't see other place. You, I, you and I, we, we need myself to the house. And in to the house, myself. and do as I did. Now, sometimes Japanese people open listening Zen meeting.

[22:37]

A group meets to listen to Zen. In a big auditorium and things, people gathered. Zen talk. People come and listen. Oh, this is Zen. I'm nervous. I know, I understand Zen. It's nonsense. Listening Zen talk, Zen sound is listening to your breath and air.

[24:04]

At that time, we could understand a little bit about Zen. I think now, maybe now, morning in Japan, two or three people sitting in a hall now, I'm thinking, I am now a little bit worried when I go back to Japan people don't come

[26:11]

Yeah? Calm or not calm? Maybe sitting. Two or three Zen students helped me. Because there were four of us sitting together in a side town. It was a big help. Yes, I won't, don't, don't go away.

[27:37]

Stay. Stay and do the Zen. Shakyamuni Buddha said precept is don't move don't move stay stay here in front of me don't move but we mind we feel sometimes move always move

[28:40]

Like a tree in the wind. Like that. But Shakyamuni Buddha said, don't move. Stay here. Because Zazen is precept. Precept is Zazen. Thank you.

[30:02]

Thank you very much. Listen to me with Zazen. Any questions? Do you still like Zazen? Someday Someday I will say, like, not like. Someday he'll be able to say, it doesn't matter whether I like or don't like. How did it happen that people began to come to Zazen?

[31:07]

I don't know. Some day come. Oh, you come. It's unusual. Maybe the first time he wasn't actually in the Zen-do but her in the car. Who built her Buddha house? You mean in reference to his talk today?

[32:12]

My Zazen was built in my Buddha's house. My Zazen. Has the relative popularity of Zazen in America versus Japan influenced more popularity of Zazen in Japan now? In Japan, Zazen is not very popular. But in America, Zazen is more popular. Thank you very much.

[33:19]

I think so. I think so. Yeah. Yes. Japanese people now a little bit A little bit anxious these days in Japan. Yeah. So maybe they... Many people alone. Many people and... Just alone. No relationship. Other people. Yeah. Thank you.

[34:28]

Yeah, only one. Only me. Sorry. Because, a little bit, something want. Ah, yes. choose to take Buddhism or Zazen and make it their life. But in Japan, many people inherit Buddhism. Father, son, he will be... Yeah, assist from ancestor. So you inherited your position, but you now have taken it What did you learn from your teacher?

[35:39]

What was the most important thing that you learned from your teacher to help others? When did you learn? When did you learn from your teacher? The most important thing... He didn't teach me anything. But he... his life... I watched my father's life work.

[36:43]

The way he lived his life, you watched how he lived his life? Angry, sometimes angry, sometimes rough, sometimes tender, strict, everything. I have a question about women in Japan. I heard that in the 60s many women took the idea of Zen to liberate themselves and I wonder if that can be applied in Japan sometime? In the 1960s, the Japanese owner studied Zen. No, American women study Zen. Oh, I'm sorry.

[37:58]

I'm sorry. In the future, will Japanese women also have such thoughts? In the future, will Japanese women also appear on the front lines of Japan? Or will they take disciples? Now... Which one should I answer? Nowadays, Japanese women's rights are gradually being recognized.

[38:59]

Women's human rights have been recognized a lot. But I think it's still necessary. I don't think it's just Zen. I don't think it's just Zen. I think the way of thinking of Jodo is also very important for liberation. Jodo-shu. Without discrimination between men and women, there has to be more discrimination and discrimination.

[40:12]

The old religion is still hard. So that's why I feel that's really ironical that Zen in Japan plays a role to make the people conservative, including women and men. But here, Zen plays a role to liberate the people. So that's why it's really ironical how Zen plays a role here and there. So that's why I'm just asking, Zazen in the morning. One woman's been coming for three years and just but she's the main person and just recently some elder men have started coming and Hojasan, there was a nun who had some difficulty and Hojasan took her in and eventually helped her become the abbess

[41:18]

American people, American ladies... Before Zen come to America, Zen, before already wake up need something. But Japanese people, women, many, almost now, little sleepy. Some ladies that woke up, wake up, kneeling, and ringing the bell.

[42:30]

The morning bell to wake up. I encourage you to read or to look at the women in the Soto Shu, because they've been very strong, and they've been very active about women's position in Japan. Did you know about Kobuchino? Yeah, I know very well. He's older than me, two, three years I met at the university Yes He's studying very well He was Kyoto University

[43:50]

Kyoto University is very famous Kyoto University, Tokyo University, like a... Harvard and Stanford Yes He was like that I met in Tassara, Kofun Chinoroshi, and at the time opening Found a building.

[44:53]

Found a building, Kaisando. Yes. At the time, he asked me, please write the name of the building. Hang the front of the building. Hang. Yeah. What should I write? What should I write? He said, shōun. Shōun. Shō is shōgaku shunryū no shō. Right. Right. Hikari, no. No? Right. No? Shō meaning happy? No. I think his name is Ho-un Right? Ho-un Kobol.

[46:20]

Hong Kobol. He's my name. Yes. Now, Hong. Hong Kobol. He helped to make the dojo. A big help. He wants to stay always in the future. Future. He wants to stay.

[47:23]

Now, forever. He won't think. Stay. From now. Immortalize. Yes. Yes. He's like a cloud. Cloud? Everywhere. And soft? Quiet? Powerful. Quiet. Soft. But powerful. I made I was met in San Francisco, Japantown.

[48:25]

He was a young wife and two children, one child, a baby, and one more baby in the... Pregnant. And now I'm very surprised. I am surprised. Terrible. I... I made a name... I named... Catherine Tanner's temple... Santa Cruz I named it... before I named it... Jiko-in Jiko-in

[49:53]

And I asked, is it good? I asked the answer. Jikoji is Chino Kobun's temple. Same name. Jiko-in, Jiko-ji. Same character. Now it changed. Gyoku-onji. G. Koji where? Santa Cruz and Monterey. Where is G. Koji? It says. North of Los Altos. Los Altos. Los Altos. Mountain View. Mountain View to Santa Cruz. No, Aida. Aida. He was a big help to my father.

[51:25]

My father, after he died, he left here. Left? Hmm.

[52:04]

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