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How Do We Follow Ordinary Mind

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BZ-03014
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The talk develops “ordinary mind is the way” through teachings on patience, endurance, and wholehearted practice. Drawing on Sojin Roshi’s reflections and the koan in The Gateless Gate, it presents zazen as dynamic activity and “don’t move” as a practice of facing difficulty in the present; it also considers how to preserve simplicity and sustain sangha practice amid post-pandemic changes.

  • The Gateless Gate, case 19 — The Nansen–Joshu exchange, “ordinary mind is the way,” anchors the talk’s account of seeking, non-seeking, and stumbling past enlightenment.
  • The Lotus Sutra — The parable of the prodigal son illustrates the experience of finding a spiritual home in practice.
  • Dōgen — The saying attributed to Dōgen on returning from China—his eyes are horizontal and his nose vertical—illustrates the talk’s emphasis on ordinary, embodied realization.
  • Sojin Roshi’s lectures and forthcoming book — Excerpts on practice, patience, endurance, and jijuyū-zanmai (self-fulfilling samādhi) provide the central teachings discussed.
  • Shunryū Suzuki — Recollections of Suzuki’s guidance, including his response to Sojin’s difficulties, exemplify compassionate encouragement alongside strict practice.
  • Thich Nhat Hanh — Mentioned in an audience member’s account of practicing in that tradition; the exchange raises the importance of recognizing racial bias and exclusion within Zen communities.
  • Bo Lozoff — His encouragement, “You can do this,” is cited to distinguish endurance as active engagement from resignation.

AI Suggested Title: Ordinary Mind Endures the Way

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Transcript:

Can you hear me? Microphone check. There you go. I can't hear you. Check one, two, one, two. Check one, two. Put your thumb up if you can hear me.

[01:28]

Thank you, sister. Good to see you. I cannot hear you, Blake. Now. I can't hear you. Speaker is on. I'm going to go back to the computer only speaker. Speak and let me hear you. Microphone check. One, two. No. I'm plugging back in the speaker.

[02:30]

Try speaking, keep you speaking for a minute, Blake, please. Check one, two, microphone. I'm getting nothing. Even without the fancy speaker, I'm still getting nothing. Joe, would you have an idea about this? Take a look. The microphone is apparently on, and I believe, Blake, you can hear me, right? But we can't pick up him, and I'm trying to use this, our internal speaker, or plug this one in. So right now we could plug it in, or we could choose. Check one, two. Ah, yes, thank you, Blake. Let's plug in the speaker, the additional auxiliary speaker. Microphone check. give it a second oh let's let the bat yeah okay let's see what happens check one two plugged in no that's uh this doesn't plug in it's hard to say got it got it okay check check one two this could be a single thing that we use uh instead of let's try it how about that

[03:59]

Go ahead and speak. This is a microphone. Nope. Sorry. We thought it was the cable the other day, and so we got a new cable and a new speaker. These are together. So my guess is, and this says headphone. And this says microphone, so we don't want microphone. Right, that's okay. Great, I'll hold that. Okay. And I think this gets to plug this one in. Right. That's good. And there's the juice that just went on. And that one is, there's no other jack to plug into. That's a new computer. All right, Blake, one more time. I think we got you. Check one, two. Great. and you can hear us right thank you i'm going to mute and uh leave video on for now the speaker needs to unmute you when the speaker is ready unmute himself i mean when the speaker is ready okay

[05:21]

Your audio is off, Berkley Sun Center. An unsurpassed, unpenetrating and perfect armor is rarely met with.

[18:14]

Even a hundred thousand million help us have to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I bow to taste the truth of the Tatakata's words. Good morning. Can you hear me out there in Radioland? Good. As Gary said yesterday, there's a lot of things to think about just in getting set up here. But I hope they're all working now. So it's a beautiful late spring day. here in Berkeley. I hope it's nice wherever you are. It was very hot here yesterday. And is the weather is supposed to be like that again today?

[19:19]

Cooler. Cooler is cooler. So I'd like to get the immediate news out. I don't know if any of you watched the Warriors game. last night. Some of you? Yes. It's a wonderful game. And the Warriors came from behind and won. And Stephen Curry scored 43 points. And it's inspiring just to see the level of skill, quality, and just the, these games, these players are so good that, you know, the dynamic shifts between them. So, you know, a team is behind, another team has a run, somebody is, somebody has a hot hand that one night and somebody else who's really excellent

[20:35]

uh can't score you know it's it's pretty interesting i i enjoy watching it i hope you can respect the diversity of our community you mean those who watch basketball those who don't want festival no i'm a self-expand i'm a self-expand myself oh that diversity okay i can i can respect that oh actually Usually, my inclination is to root for whoever is losing. Celtics looked very good through the first three quarters. You watched it. I didn't enjoy it as much as you did. Right. I can understand why. But it was a make-or-break game, and now we've got another... Is there just another one? there's three it's a seven it's a seven game series wow these out of these people it's really amazing that's not what i wanted to talk about today so um let's just take a breath and collect ourselves again

[21:53]

I've been thinking about Sojin Roshi as his funeral is approaching next week. And it's been really wonderful to be in the position of contacting all of his all of his disciples, the formal ones and the ones both here and online who may not have had gotten worn certain robes, but were clearly his disciples. And I don't, I don't make a lot of distinction about that. And this, the preparations for his memorial, which will be next Saturday here, funeral on Sunday has been an opportunity to be in touch with a lot of people which who have known and practiced with Zodron Roshi intimately for years, and many of whom we have also practiced with for years.

[23:19]

I think I'm coming in contact with sort of another round of grief and perhaps some anxiety, particularly relating to the scale of the event, which is actually pretty large and complex. I think that the anxiety has another layer, which is very close to the grief of Once again, coming to acknowledge that our teacher is not here. So here comes Sweet Pea.

[24:26]

So, you know, I've mentioned it before. I've had... number of dreams about Sojourn over the last year and a half. And I had one last night, which is not surprising, although he just, he played a sort of cameo role. There, and I can't recall what the circumstances actually that the lead role was played by Steve Stuckey. And also, Jack Van Allen. Some of you remember Jack. And it's like, all of them, they were alive. And in the dream, I was thinking, wait, this is not actually the circumstance. But yet there they were.

[25:33]

And I was walking through the streets of San Francisco with them. And then walking over the Golden Gate Bridge. And I don't remember more detail about that. And I'm not sure what the particular relevance of it is. But... ...ever dead. Very alive. In these dreams. And I think that... I suspect that this is true for... others of you. And I think we honor the life. We honor the life at the funeral. We honor the life that we've experienced in this realm. And in our dreams, we honor the life that continues within us.

[26:36]

And that's a wonder. Even though it's not always comfortable. So we had the fortune to absorb for so many years Sojin's formal and informal teaching. His own informal teaching was just how he moved, how he sat, how he practiced day after day. And the formal teaching was in his talks. in classes. And, you know, we have this treasure trove of recordings. There are more than 2,000 recordings of his lectures and classes.

[27:43]

And they've all been digitized at this point. But they're sort of, you can listen to them, which is wonderful. I don't tend to absorb material that way. I like to read. But quite a number of them, a small number of them have been transcribed. And there's a vast task which some point, I think, in the coming year, we're going to outsource to anyone who wants to. You know, since these lectures have been digitized, we can farm them out for transcription to people in Asanga. And I hope people will help with that project. It's very rich. We also have the book that he was working on.

[28:46]

with Ron and Kika, and then Raghav, is now at the publisher. And we're waiting to hear how Jack Schumacher, the publisher, wants to further edit it. But it's been, it's submitted. It's out of our hands at last. And I'm going to I want to read you, I want to read and comment from, that struck me in the last couple of days as I've been just thinking of that, so trying to hold him in mind and hold his practices in mind. And I hope you'll, excuse me, I'm going to jump around the, the lectures have their own rhythm and flow.

[29:52]

And the ones that I'm kind of exerting here, you'll have within the foreseeable future to read the whole thing. And it's just a remarkable, once you read them, for me, for reading them, it's just a remarkable uh view the depth of his understanding of his practice and uh you know in many ways uh to read them is is really to refresh myself because you know many of there are many lectures that i heard and all of us heard here in the Zendo. And whatever state of mind I was in when I heard them, some of which, sleepy state of mind, I couldn't remember everything.

[31:05]

But when you see it on the page, you see what wonderful coherence and articulation of particularly our style of practices. the style of Soto practice that we, Sojin who learned from Shinryu Suzuki, his teacher. So I'm going to jump around and in these, one of the first lecture that I'm looking entitled, Why do you practice? And he says, sometimes I am asked, why do you practice? There are a variety of possible responses. When Dogen returned from China, he was asked what he brought back to Japan. He said that all he had learned was that his eyes were horizontal and his nose vertical.

[32:06]

There's some question about whether he actually even said that, but it's pretty good. You know, it's like, if you have that straight that your nose is vertical, then, well, you know something basic, right? I really resonate with this, the next paragraph, because it's true for me. When I sat, this is so true, when I sat down, I knew I was home. I was like the prodigal son in the Lotus Sutra, we just read, who had stumbled into the doorway of his father's house. This is not an uncommon experience for a Zen student. I had found a teacher whose practice was patience and sincerity. He said that those who have the most difficult time and persevere, no matter what obstacles they meet in the way,

[33:12]

in the end can become very good students. They can become teachers. And this is so much to the experience that I had here, you know, coming in, walking into, walking onto the grounds for the first time, Russell Street particularly. And just feeling When I walked in and when I sat down, I was home. And, you know, I had been looking for a home. Sojourn had been looking for a home. You know, he had the art scene that he was involved in. He was a kind of, he was a student. He studied Kabbalah on his own. And he was looking, he was seeking something.

[34:16]

He was seeking a home. Walked into Sakochi on Bush Street, the old Sakochi. And he met Suzuki Roshi, they bowed to each other, he was home. This is the most fortunate circumstance that any of us can have. Again, I'm sure that many of you had that experience right away. Some of you may have really had to explore a bit, check it out, which is also important. But this feeling of home is like, ah. And then you have a place from which to function. This is the place. The grounds are the place.

[35:16]

And then we take that with us. Someone asked me what my teacher was like. Well, he was very gentle and kind. And at the same time, very firm and strict. One of his students, Daijaku Kinst, described Sojin as a teddy bear with claws. You know, and when you first encounter him, basically, a teddy bear. And it's wonderful. It feels comfortable, soft, furry. That was a first impression many people had. And And when you got closer, you had to be .

[36:18]

They could grab you and pierce and in a good way, but not always in a comfortable way. And sometimes I'll say in a wounding way for some people, some people that wasn't a fit. So one could describe, he says, someone asked me, my teacher was like, he was very gentle and kind and at the same time, very firm and strict. Who could say that of Sojin? He was saying, during Zazen, he would say, don't move. And once he said, don't chicken out. We liked it when he used our colloquialisms. Don't move. was often don't move in a lot of places when you're in the Zendo. Someone from the front seat will say don't move in a very in just that kind of tone louder.

[37:34]

I remember being with my oldest friends that at Zen Mountain Monastery at Mount Tremper. And he had never sat Zazen before. He was like 55, you know, with a 55 year old body. And Zazen was painful. And he moved and somebody like that from the front seat. In my mind, I said, I just thought, I'm out of here. I'm not coming back here. I was there for the weekend teaching, actually. So I didn't leave. But it turns out with it, you know, which is interesting. But that's not our style. Don't move is a condition of our life. When you're having difficulties, don't move. But what I feel is the unspoken part of that is the word

[38:42]

Now. Don't move now. Within this reality that you're experiencing, this difficulty you're experiencing, try to live with it. Try to take it in and not move, not squirm away. So many periods of zazen that I sat with excruciating legs uh particularly early on and i just best not to move knowing that the period was going to end and we were going to get in or we're going to get up there wasn't a time to move so if i could just do it now and not chicken out and so i tried to do that and sometimes i didn't But what I did find moving is that once I started moving my legs, you know, just the shift position, there was no end to it.

[39:54]

You know, make one shift. And it's like, okay, you get some relief for about three minutes. And then the pain returns in yet another set of angles. So better just to find a way to live with it, to do it. Make sure, always check that by not moving, you're not endangering yourself or you're not harming yourself. Sojin says, we had to come face to face with our difficulties. And through our own effort, find the way through. And there was no escape. This is an example of his, Suzuki Roshi's compassion and strictness. He knew how to push and ease off.

[40:57]

When to hold firmly. He never stopped encouraging us and he never gave up on anyone. This is really important. For me, this is embodied in kind of our precept that I try to maintain, which is I will not abandon you. I will not give up on someone, even if it means it might mean taking a large step back. It might mean letting them so-called fail on their own, but not to remove some element of intention and care.

[41:59]

I think, again, Sojin Roshi saw this in his teacher, and I think many of us saw this in Sojin. He never made a judgment as to who was the best horse and who was the worst. For him, the worst one might actually be the best horse or already was. Sometimes the one who is having the hardest time and practicing wholeheartedly and unselfconsciously is actually stimulating the practice without knowing it. The next paragraph is a section that we didn't always see or recognize in Sojin, but of himself. In my early years of practice, I had a very hard time.

[43:07]

I feel that I have experienced most of the difficulties that everyone does, the pain, the frustration, sitting through emotional problems, mental stress, and so on. Never suspicious of the practice, but have rather looked at my own shortcomings as practice opportunities. When we can offer ourselves to practice wholeheartedly, Together with all our defilements, together with all of our shortcomings and weaknesses, the Dharma can do its work of transformation. Why wait? I think I practice for the sake of practice. Like a farmer, carefully raising his or her crops. Through steady constant practice we cultivate the ground maturing the wonderful variety of flowers and enjoy and enjoy helping them each one singular and beautiful.

[44:24]

When I give a talk He says, actually, I thrive on encouraging others. When I give a talk, I mostly want to encourage people. This is the practice of Jijuyusamai, the joy of fulfillment in our offering to everyone. Jijuyusamai should do a talk on that sometime, is self-fulfilling, self-actualizing samadhi that Really important to Sojin as an essential teaching. So we'll go into more detail another time. The joy of fulfillment and our offering to everyone. When we give in this way unselfishly and without a moment, we are one with the ring of the way. I often think a Zen student is like that ice plant on a cliff.

[45:30]

facing the ocean. The wind blows, the sun beats down, the ocean mists and storms. Simply weathers it all. What a life. That's his words. Could be your words too. My old teacher once said to me with a smile when I was having a really difficult time. If you find something You should do it. I think the full story that I remember is Sojin coming to Suzuki Roshi with difficulty and complaint and Suzuki Roshi saying, oh, isn't this practice hard enough for you? Such compassionate encouragement has kept me on track for a long time. I want to skip to another talk.

[46:45]

Take a few minutes on this. It's very rich talk. It's an unpacking of nonsense, ordinary, which is case 19 in the Gateless Gate. Joshu asked Nansen, what is the way? And Nansen said, ordinary mind is the way. Joshu said, shall I seek after it? And Nansen said, if you try for it, you will become separated from it. Sojun says, I like to use the word stumble past.

[47:47]

If you try for it, you will stumble past it. You stumble past the enlightenment that is right under your feet. So that's the context. I found something interesting, and I think it's relevant to what are present-day circumstances. First of all, he says, what is the way? The way is to always be in samadhi. So there's the samadhi of sitting still. There's the samadhi of work. The samadhi of moving around. When we sit in zazen, we enter the... But actually, zazen is called great dynamic activity. We tend to think that zazen is passivity, but actually zazen is activity.

[48:53]

We're getting to try that out this week to prove it for ourselves. Every part of your body-mind is totally present in zazen if you sit correctly. There's nothing left out. So whole body and mind is in harmonious dynamic activity. Sitting up straight, letting breathing breathe. You don't breathe. Breathing breathes. The universe is breathing me. In a moment you might do that, which is a miraculous feeling. And ordinarily you might not. But it's the truth. He says, if you think about it, how could it not be? The blood runs through the body.

[49:55]

You or yourself think to do with it. We're cosmic beings. Samadhi is allowing ourselves to be moved without restriction by the cosmos. We're cosmic dust. Because of this, causes and conditions Because of the conditions of this earth, we appear as people, as animals, plants and stuff. So to be in harmony with universal activity, which is called our body. Skip Ahead, he says, our practice is the practice of great patience. If we want something too much, this is what spoils our practice. It comes up in all of us. This wanting too much comes up in all of us. When I started the Berkeley Zen Center, I decided that Zazen was what I was doing.

[51:04]

Every day I would sit Zazen. If somebody wanted to sit with me, that was wonderful. Nobody came, okay. Feeling good, feeling bad, liking it, not liking it, doesn't matter. If we have a flourishing Zen center, if it falls apart, okay. And I think he really did feel that, although he made his effort to hold it together. But I just remember how it was when the pandemic arrived. Sojin was very freely And comfortably able to just let it go. Let go of all the forms and practices that we've been doing. And just saying, okay, it's a really new circumstance here. We have to just go with it and do something else.

[52:07]

You did. He says, we don't like our practice to be complicated. But the more people we have, the more it gets. How do we keep our practice simple in the midst of all these complications? So this is kind of the game we're playing with our practice in our world. Compared to some our practice is very simple. You go to San Francisco Zen Center or other monasteries, you know, it's like, it's kind of more like high church. But compared to other places, our practice is very formal. Oh, all this bowing and not knowing what to do when you put this out, you put that out. And it's like, this is too much for me, which I can understand.

[53:11]

It's like, But if you have the ability to enter it, then you'll find some wealth or treasure. It's interesting because right now, what we're doing is we are rebuilding our practice. This is the first time in two and a half years that we've had a group of us sitting solidly for five days. This is reintroducing the forms that we experienced and believe in and love. And my effort is to reintroduce the practice that I've been doing for years that we learned from sojourn.

[54:12]

And I'm moving slowly and carefully. So that the and for some people, some people it's too slow. Some people it's too fast. Some people fear that something has been lost. I actually don't think anything has been lost. I don't think there's much that that I've earned. But I'm trying to, with the Sangha, trying to determine what the right pace is. And, you know, it's kind of an, it's an averaging thing. You know, it's like too loose for some people. People sort of trying to go right down the middle. And Sojin was really trying to be careful. to maintain a sense of basis and simplicity.

[55:19]

And it's also true that just I think as some of us have been here for a long time can see, it's gotten more complicated over the years. And now just to say, once that we have a whole new set of complications. That's not so easy, but we're working through it. We're working through it, I think, because we have faith in the practice and because we want to offer the practice widely. And during the pandemic, we've seen new ways of offering the practice. And my feeling during the pandemic is that we've reaffirmed our Sangha in some really remarkable ways.

[56:23]

And maybe that's something that would not have happened quite that way if the pandemic hadn't happened. Really some simple things which have become kind of implicit forms. at the end of our, at the end of our zazen of just, or the end of a practice day of just saying hello to each other online. You know, that's really different than walking out on the porch, you know, not acknowledging each other. It's, and it's different than sort of bowing to Sojin or bowing to me, it's actually It's actually all of us reaching out to all of us. That's a wonderful new practice.

[57:26]

So Sochin says, our lives will get more complicated. How can we keep our practice simple? How do we meet? Where do we meet? Here right now. This is day four of our meeting. We're meeting each other. The Shuso is meeting us and we're meeting him. And we will continue. I'm going to stop there and leave time for some questions or comments, both in the room, and you can raise your digital hands, please, if you have a question out there in Zoom land. So, have anything? Lisa.

[58:31]

That was a very touching talk. Thank you. I've been experiencing what it's like to be in person for the first time in many years with this beautiful zendo, this warm, intimate space, and all of the santa. Even if those of us who aren't here are here feeling it. It's major. All I can say is give it a try because this is really, I feel like it's safe. It's respecting the conditions that we're facing. We're keeping each other safe. You're practicing. Are you able to hear that out there? Oh, good. That's great. Well, thanks for all the work that must have gone into this. Thank you, everybody, for all the work. There's a lot of work. Just to say, I'd really like to encourage people to come to the Zindo.

[59:47]

You know, come for morning Zazen and come on Saturdays and bring yourselves back to this place. It's very rich. So, thank you. Mary. Thank you for the reminiscing about Sojin, and I wanted to have a little reminiscence. This week I've been thinking a lot, or a lot about how he did Kinhin, and how... How he did... Kinhin. Kinhin. he would um plant a step and then become completely still and that's that between each step there was a stillness sort of embodied stillness in activity yeah that thank you that that is

[60:55]

pretty common practice of kinyin. To take that step and then to rest in that stillness for a moment and then take the next half step. Yeah, there's various ways of doing walking meditation. You know, at the monastery where we practice like every morning at the first, the first Before the first period of zazen, you would do kinyin that was halfway between fast walking and running, you know, to get your energy up. But this is, you know, we settle down. It's kind of moving zazen. Thank you. Now, I see their hands up, but I'm not seeing who they are. Kahi Andrea? Okay, good. Good morning, Hosan, and thank you for your talk.

[62:06]

Can you hear me? Yeah. Oh, okay. As you were talking, I like the way that you used Sojin's words and you looked at, like, how we are now. It really helped me. But I've been sitting with the question of why do I practice? As you were talking, I thought about BZC. I've come back to the Zendo a little bit, but being in that space in the morning, it's nothing like it. I'm on Zoom, but I think that, you know, when I think about practice, as simple as it is, it shows you yourself. So every time I sit on my Zafu, I face myself, whatever it is. And that facing myself has helped me face life. I'm in a job that I've been on now for 12 years at one place.

[63:07]

For some people, that's nothing. For me, when I started practicing, I could never stay anywhere for long. Because as soon as something was uncomfortable, I would leave. And I still have a... I've left behind lots of people, relationships, all kinds of things. But this practice always reminds me, hey, Kahi, hey, Andrea, where are you going? Who are you leaving? Are you leaving yourself? That's always the question. So thanks. Thank you. That's what don't move means, you know, to really face yourself and then you decide whether to move or not. but you really have to do the hard work of facing yourself. So thank you for sharing that. I see a hand from EJI, is that correct? Good morning. Yes, this is EJI. Yes, thank you very much. Thank you very much.

[64:08]

You know, on the same note of moving, I've been practicing in the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh for about 20 years and I enjoy coming here because it's so close to where I live and I've had the opportunity to meet and participate in a number of activities and classes. As an African-American man, it is so difficult to live in this culture and culture, but it's also difficult to live in And say, for example, I walked in the Zendo, I walked on the property once and someone walked up to me and says, do you know where you are? And, you know, those kind of microaggressions really are very annoying. And, you know, the things that are happening in the society to black people in Buffalo and the entire process of what happened in January 6th was really about white supremacy.

[65:13]

And it's a real challenge, you know, to deal with white privilege, white supremacy, deal with issues related to implicit bias. You know, it's unintentional bias. And we live here in Berkeley, you know, right across the street from, you know, right across the street from the flea market kind of thing. And it's just such a dichotomous. As a Black man, and I've moved around from different, you know, I'll be at different Zendos or whatever, because, you know, it does get uncomfortable. And, you know, people look at you like, what are you doing here? I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I can still walk into a Catholic church. People look like, you're a Black man. What are you doing here? Thank you so much for your presentation. I just wanted to share my experience. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I appreciate you being willing to take the chance to actually say that.

[66:14]

And it saddens me that . And also I understand that this is part of the condition of our society, which we are not immune to, although we would like to be in Zendo. And we are studying and working on this, screw up anyway, despite our best intentions. So I really, I would welcome you and appreciate you. And just what one thing that comes to mind for me is, you know, I've been from Louisiana for a long time, Cajun music, and I had the opportunity to play with some Black and Creole musicians a lot. And one of the things we played, we played Catholic church dances very regularly in the early 80s.

[67:19]

And it was really amazing. You could feel the faith, you could feel the energy, and you could feel the love and the music. So yeah, I hope that that's something that you will experience and feel here our music is usually confined to one note that goes flat so thank you i absolutely need to let you know that i was born and raised roman catholic and i have a broad perspective on a lot um but i know that um i go to other places and um for example the um with the quakers and people will say you know well black people they do a certain kind of music or they do a certain kind of this and roman roman catholicism is very in fact i live in monastery so i am not immune and i'm not uh i'm not foreign to the spiritual life in any way shape or form and it is not i didn't grow up in the baptist uh church although i love that experience but i don't want to be um trapped into this idea of

[68:39]

we do different music or whatever. As I said, I lived in a monastery, but I thank you so much. Thank you for letting me say that. Thank you. Thank you. We have time for a few more. I see, oh, Stephanie. Thank you, Hozan. I wanted to thank you for your talk, especially in preparation for Sojin's funeral. It helped me to remember all the many of the things I remember about him. I want to make a. Your use of the word endurance. Last endurance. Oh, yes. Last week you spoke about it and I was thinking about that all week, actually. And I talked about it. I'm seeing.

[69:42]

And today, you talked about, or Sojin talked about endurance from the perspective of it's both kind of tolerating pain, enduring pain and hardship, if you will, and it's having the strength, the conviction, the commitment to endure something over time. And I appreciate actually both of those definitions. I looked it up in the dictionary before I spoke so I could be a little clearer about if it's actually defined that way. So I think endurance is a really important part of our practice as far as inspiring people to sit with discomfort. I appreciate and grateful that you brought it forward again today in the context of Sojin's practice.

[70:48]

Thank you. Thank you. You know, there's a. A person who was very important in the in the. Who was sort of Buddhist, Hindu, etc. His name is Bo Laws off. And Bo Lazov had this expression that I think is what I understand as endurance. The expression he would do, and he would say this in very, very difficult circumstances. Like, you can do this. You can do this. And when we face our death, you know, it's like, I can't do this. But actually, even that, you can do it. And we have the model of so many who, it's not resignation. It's not just giving in, it's actually meeting it with something.

[71:52]

This is spiritual activity. Anyone here? Maybe one more. Karen, you've got the last word. I was going to bring up what Mary said about Zodiac's kinheading, but in terms of alive or dead, you know, this is my first in several years, and I'm just seeing him at every kinhead. Today and the other day, he's there, And I've never seen anyone... We try. Well, you know, he's a guy that really had his feet on the ground. He really did.

[72:57]

You know, he embodied... He embodied the physical presence of the physical activity of practice in a remarkable and completely ordinary way. In the sense to me that ordinary is not ordinary. Ordinary, the meaning of the word is like everything in the proper order and nothing extra. And I do think that's That's the character. That's what we, we were so lucky to have that example. Not someone who put on airs or, you know, he was quite happy wearing this patch rope monk, patch rope, patched rope. That's what I meant. And yet the practice precious to him as it is to us.

[74:03]

So thank you all very much. And we will continue today, tomorrow, and then day by day in our practice. Meetings are endless. I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are exhaustible. I vow Thank you. folks.

[76:54]

A few announcements and then the people who are not in session can enjoy the warm weather or stay in and enjoy the cool. Let me turn to the announcements. Tomorrow, Sunday, June 12th, the Shusou ceremony will be at Berkeley Zen Center. at three o'clock and everybody is welcome um to view the ceremony online this coming monday will be a zendo holiday informal zazen will be offered um the informal zazen will be offered probably at the regular time Next Saturday, Carol Powell will be delivering the lecture. And indeed, there will be probably a ceremony for Sojin Roshi.

[77:58]

The following day, Sunday, June 19th, Sojin Roshi's memorial will take place at 3 o'clock, I believe. 3 to 4, but sign on at around 3. All are invited online. I believe the link will probably be Green Gulch's link, but all this will be made available, their information online through Berkeley Zen Center's website, as well as at lecture next weekend. Let me read a note. Okay. All right. So with that in mind, have a wonderful day. Keep it quiet until you're outside the gates. Peace, y'all.

[78:59]

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