Unsurpassed and trading and perfect karma, it is worthy and with even a hundred thousand billion galpas, having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept. I vow to taste the truth of Taita's works. Good morning. Good morning. This is day seven of our Rohatsu Sashim. And it seems bright and crisp today. I really enjoyed Sashim. I hope that you have here and out there. Even with our, I think there's something about the schedule that we created that inadvertently was conducive to going deeply.

[01:17]

Even though our day was somewhat abbreviated, we had these two long blocks of Zazen in the morning and the afternoon. And that just felt really good. And it's something about, I think that often our sashines, there's a lot of activity even within the considerable sitting that we do. There's meals, there's serving, there's washing dishes, there's This was quite a simplified routine, and so it seemed very quiet. And I think that the weather, which was a little cold and damp at times, also is conducive to going inside.

[02:26]

So here we are in our seventh day, and it's not over yet. So this afternoon, we'll have two slightly shorter periods of zazen, and then we'll conclude sesshin as we traditionally do the rohatsu with what's called shosan ceremony. And shosan ceremony is a way that we bring forth the Dharma together. It's really, in a certain way, it's like the public dokusan. And you're invited to ask me a question, a Dharma question, as much as possible.

[03:30]

And I will try to answer. And hopefully some of the answers, I will try to answer you. I'm not going to, I'm going to try to avoid abstractions. If each person who asks the question, even though there may be a general application of that question, It's their question. And I'll do my best to speak to you as befitting whatever relationship we may be in and whatever understanding we have together. It's good to, if you formulate a question in advance, that's fine. If another question comes up while you're sitting here, just get rid of the first one.

[04:39]

And if nothing comes up, trust yourself to see what arises when we actually meet. And it's also really acceptable simply to stand and bow. and not necessarily ask a question if there's not one that's on your mind. Try to be succinct as you do this, and I will, my answers will be, will try to be succinct. So what that means is, there's a temptation to offer a long preamble to a question. See if you can avoid the preamble and just up to the chase. And we'll get questions, I think, from the people, people here in the room and from people who are on Zoom.

[05:45]

And that'll be the conclusion of our session. So before I move on, are there any questions about that? The exact procedure will be laid out to you. Yeah, Ross. Thank you. Could you say a little bit about the difference between answering your question and responding to it? Yeah. Yeah. I will be responding to questions. I may not answer your question. You may find that's an answer, but essentially it's just a response. It's just call and response. And I will say if you're not satisfied or if you don't understand the response, it's okay to ask to make a further inquiry. But let's try to avoid getting into an extended dialogue.

[06:51]

Other questions? This may be unfamiliar to you, but it's quite wonderful. It's a really open and intimate process that we're doing. Anything out there? No. You don't see anything? Good. Great. So one point of business that I want to touch on from yesterday before we move on, just Yesterday, Rob asked a question. He was remembering something that I said a few days ago, and I want to, and he was talking about that as something he was exploring in his Zazen. And I wanted to give you the exact quote.

[07:57]

The exact quote is from Hongzhu, from Cultivating the Empty Field. And the quotation is, take the backward step and directly reach the middle of the circle from where the light issues forth. Take the backward step and directly reach the middle of the circle from where the light issues forth. I'm not going to talk about that. but I just wanted to give you the quotation and it's one of a number of memorable quotations about this flight that everyone has and how we might practice with it. So, to come to

[09:02]

towards the end of the Fukantazengi, I'm going to carry on from where we were yesterday in the text. This being the case, intelligence or lack of it does not matter. Between the dull and the sharp-witted, there is no distinction. If you concentrate your efforts single-mindedly, that is negotiating the way. Practice realization is naturally undefiled. Going forward in practice is a matter of everydayness. So we come back to a restatement of this principle of practice realization, of the wholeness of practice realization, the not-to-ness of practice realization, as he's reiterating it from the beginning of the text.

[10:31]

one of the commentators says, since negotiating the way practice realization in Zazen is the practice realization of ultimate reality, it is beyond all the defining distinctions and dualities arriving from conscious striving. So again, as we've been talking about, we're aiming at a practice that has no aim, which is hard to get your mind around. But just relax into it. The next sentence is, going forward, is a matter of everydayness.

[11:36]

This is an allusion to another koan and a famous dialogue between Master Zhao Zhou, or Zhou Shu, and his own teacher, when he was a student, Nanjuan. Zhao Zhou asked Nanjuan What is the way? Nanxuan said, everyday mind is the way. GiaoGiao asked, well, does one proceed along it or not? And Nanxuan said, once you think about going forward, you go wrong. So, Dogen is playing with this when he says, going forward in practice is a matter of everydayness.

[12:43]

So, this everyday mind, it's my experience. You know, I've been fortunate to meet teachers and people who I felt were quite awake. And another way to translate this everyday mind is the way is ordinary mind is the way. That's another translation that we come across. And what I've experienced when meeting even prominent teachers and spiritual figures is this very strong quality of ordinariness, of everydayness.

[13:46]

For me, I think that's one of the great, I don't know, just compelling aspects that we experienced in our in our late teacher, Soji. And I think that he experienced in Suzuki Roshi. There was no... There was no drama. There was no airs. There was... There were no brocade robes or, you know, fancy clothing or vehicles. You know, there was just this quality of ordinariness. And you can miss that. You cannot not see it. But also you can have your eyes open to it and see it.

[14:51]

And for me, this ordinariness is It's kind of a quality, it's a quality that I admire most when I encounter it. And I aspire to it. And that's a work in progress. But it's ordinary. And we also realize it's not exactly plain. It's plain, I'm sorry. It's not. It is playing. It's not... It's not a place to stand on. It's not a position. It's just something that one can respond to.

[15:54]

It doesn't... It doesn't define, somehow, the power relations between you and that person. It allows, it allows a transparency and it allows a, what, in the context of, say, Ross's question just now, it allows just response, just simple response rather than definitive answer. So Dogen says, going forward in a practice is a matter of everydayness. It's a matter of ordinariness. And also that word ordinary is a word that I love because it has a whole envelope of meaning. You know, it means in the proper order.

[16:59]

in a kind of sequence. And, you know, it's applied to religious communities, which are seen as orders. Not orders in terms of rank, but just, we have a way of doing things together. And that's ordinary. So to go on, in general, this world and other worlds as well, both in India and China, equally hold the Buddha seal and overall prevails the character of this school. This school is not, he doesn't mean the Soto school, he means the Buddha school. prevails over the character of the school, which is simply devotion to city.

[18:04]

Total engagement in immobile city. Now that's interesting. I was examining this. You can find online, there's a collection that somebody did of line by line six translations of Fukan Zazenki, where you can compare their different translations. And I found, I did find an interesting translation, if I printed it. Yeah, this is in a book by the scholar Carl Bielfeld, who edited together Dogen's manuals on meditation. And his translation is interesting. I don't see it in other translations.

[19:09]

Let me see if I can find it. Oh, yeah. So where this translation says, simply devotion to sitting, total engagement in a mobile sitting. He says, They devote themselves only to sitting. They are obstructed by fixedness. So I don't know what to make of it. They were obstructed by fixedness. I don't know what to make of it, but what I would say is, again, what Sojin often talked about was, Even within our seemingly immobile sitting, or stillness, let's put it that way, there's dynamic activity. There's activity all of us know as we're sitting.

[20:13]

We are minutely adjusting and regulating our posture, our breath, our mind. outwardly, we appear in a general way immobile, but there's something about this, this word immobile sitting as if, to me, it implies sitting as if you are a rock. And I don't think that's, something about immobile sitting doesn't include the fluidity and flexibility of our sitting. So that's just, that's just my take on it. And I think you don't have to agree, but I think you can take each line in Fukan Tzenki or any other teaching and come to your own, investigate what

[21:28]

the teacher is saying, and come to your own understanding of it. So, I see this as total engagement in dynamic stillness. To go on, although it is said that there are as many minds as there are persons, still they all negotiate the way solely in Zazen. That's a kind of exhortation. Why leave behind the seat that exists in your home and go aimlessly off to the dusty realms of other lands? If you make one misstep, you go astray from the way directly before you. You may go to other realms to practice.

[22:36]

That may be the case, that may be what's called for in your life. What he's, I think, critiquing here is, it's interesting, just again, the language is very interesting. Why leave behind the seat that exists in your home? This is your home here. This is Zendo. And go aimlessly off to the dusty realms of other lands. Well, actually, I think that usually when we go off to the dusty realms of other lands, it's actually not aimless. Maybe a better translation would be and go pointlessly off to the dusty realms of other lands. Usually, if you're going to travel, you know, if you're going from monastery to monastery, you're looking for something.

[23:44]

You have a gaining idea. So you have an aim. And what he's saying is you may have an aim, but you're missing the fact that The Dharma is right here, wherever we are, wherever we sit. I'm remembering a friend who, I had an ongoing sort of debate with years and years ago, who wanted to, she was, she was set on going to Burma because she wanted to be enlightened and she thought that I should go right there, I should go to Burma because that's where they're really doing it and that's where nutrition comes from and it's still alive and

[24:50]

I felt, well, you can do this, but there's nothing missing in the practice where you are, at least the way I see it. But go ahead. And she did. And it turns out she had a terrible time and was so relieved to get home and practice here. The other side of that is just think about our son, Genpo, who just decided he wanted to immerse himself in monastic practice and decided to go to Japan. And that was really good for him, so that he went to Japan and said he could come back here and plant his Dharma flag here at home.

[25:55]

Sometimes you have to go away and come back. Also this line is an allusion to the parable of the lost son in the Lotus Sutra. We've talked about that when we had the Lotus Sutra class. He leaves home and travels to a distant land and experiences terrible hardship. And he's so lost in his life, he comes back and doesn't even recognize where he is and doesn't recognize his father. And His father brings him along very... Father doesn't press that recognition, but gives him a job, first working in the stables, then working at various tasks, and reveals to him that they are father and son, and that all that the father has belongs to him.

[27:21]

The whole treasure of the Dharma belongs to us. It's right here, right here in this Sindhu. Sudhogen goes on, you have gained the pivotal opportunity of human form. Do not use your time in vain. You are maintaining the essential working of the Buddha way. I really like that line. That's a line. That's another line that leapt out at me. yesterday, when we were reading. This is what we're doing, even though we're not, we may have no gaining idea. Together, we are maintaining the essential working of the Buddha way, together, by our practice here in Sajin, by our practice day by day. We're, we're maintaining Buddhist teachings by bringing forth our Buddha nature and sharing it as freely as we can with anyone who wishes to come.

[28:40]

Who would take wasteful delight in a spark from the Flintstone? Besides, form and substance are like the dew on the grass. Destiny like the dark of lightning, emptied in an instant, vanished in a flash. Things happen quickly. Our life passes by in but a moment. Sometimes those moments seem awful long, but it's quick. Don't miss it. Men, please honored followers of Zen, long accustomed long accustomed to groping for the elephant to not be suspicious of the two dragging. Probably you know one or both of these stories. There's a, I think it's quite cross-cultural, but the story takes place is found in the Nirvana Sutra of a king who brought an elephant to a group of blind men

[29:50]

And each one of them touched a different part of the elephant and came to a different conclusion about the animal that they were encountering. You know, it's like a tree trunk, it's like a snake, it's like a wall. Their understanding was based on their limited quality of their individual experience. So, long accustomed to groping for the elephant. We're groping for the elephant in our life. And it's good. We actually, we're not blind. We have the opportunity to open our eyes. And then there's, do not be suspicious of the two dragons. This is a wonderful story.

[30:52]

which, again, many of you may have heard. There's a story in Chinese literature about a man named Ye Kung Tzu, who loved dragons. He had paintings and carvings of dragons all over his house, just You know, he was totally into dragons. And one day, a dragon happened to hear about this guy's interest and love of dragons. And he said, oh, I'm going to go visit him. I think he would really like that. And so he flew down from the sky and

[31:53]

popped his head through Ye's window, and he scared him witless, and he went screaming from his house. So, Dogen is saying, perhaps, that for the people of his time in Japan, that their ignorance of the true Dharma In their ignorance of the true drama, they had acquired a passion for all kinds of complicated and false teachings. And he says, basically saying, well, I brought you, I'm the real dragon, you know, and I hope you, I hope you don't get scared. It's a commentary, Dogen says, Do not get stuck in loving a carved dragon.

[32:56]

We should go forward and love the real dragon. But then Dogen says in his innumerable way, you should study that both the carved dragon and the real dragon have the power of forming clouds and rain. This is from commentary by Tygen Leighton. Even the carved dragon has great power. Some people imagine that their practice is not real, but that their practice is a picture of zazen. Actually, the carved dragon exists vividly in your imagination. In that sense, it is real. So we shouldn't disdain the carved dragon But we should really appreciate when a dragon shows up. Devote your energies to a way that directly indicates the absolute.

[34:01]

Revere the person of complete attainment, who is beyond all human agency. Actually, that's you. That's us. Game in accord with the enlightenment of the Buddhas. succeed to the legitimate lineage of the ancestor Samadhi. Take up this practice, which you have already taken up, you've been doing it for seven days. Constantly perform in such a manner, and you are assured of being a person such as they. This is a point that Dogen makes over and over again in a variety of teachings. The Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the past, we are not different from the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the past. We are of the same nature, the same awakened nature. And as we practice, this becomes clear to us.

[35:10]

So if you practice in such a manner, you're short of being a person such as they. And then the last line says, your treasure store will open of itself and you will use it at will. Just a wonderful, just such a wonderful sentiment to close this piece on. Your treasure store will open of itself and you will use it at will. As we practice, something opens in us and we have access to it. You see the opening of wisdom and compassion. And when that's available to us, when this treasure store is open, then we just naturally act towards all beings.

[36:22]

from that source, from the source of the treasure store. And again, if there's an aim of zazen, if we dare to conceptualize it, essentially it's just The door to the treasure store opens and we can play in it. We can dig around in the shelves and the cabinets and find things and take them outside and give them to people who might appreciate or use them. And never worry about them running out because it's an inexhaustible treasure store. And we can visit it over and over again, every time we sit down.

[37:29]

And as we, as we gain accord with the enlightenment of the Buddhas, it's not about sitting down. It's actually, we have access to it all the time. And still, each of us is a work in progress. So, I think I'm going to end there and leave time for questions or comments about anything that we've discussed over the last, over the last week. Again, take questions here in the symbol and out there in Zoom land, raise your digital hand if you have something you would like to say or something you'd like to ask? The floor is open.

[38:31]

Yeah, Mira. So the line about everyday mind or ordinary mind, that seems really significant to me. So I'm trying to think of how I can relate to that for myself. And is that like everyday? Does it have to do with everyday activity rather than some kind of transcendent type of blind state that you might want to get into? But I might want to get into it. I'd love to get into it. My understanding is that enlightenment is not a state of mind. Enlightenment is an activity. And I think this is in accord with this idea of practice realization that Zazen is the active expression of our already realized mind.

[39:47]

And I think that in that sense, ordinary mind as you express it with your body, is expressed in each activity that one does. And where we may feel, well, we may feel we're missing the mark, then we can realign ourselves. We can bring ourselves back into order. I mean, I've told this very often, but gosh, I think it was 32 years ago or so, Master Shen Yan, who was a Chan teacher, who's passed away, came and gave a talk here. And in the Q&A, Laurie asked him, what's the most important thing for a lay student in our practice?

[40:52]

And His answer was very quick, was regulate your life. And that really pierced me. Regulate your life means create some kind of order or rule to it. So, yes, your ordinary mind is expressed in all the things we do. Does that make sense? Thank you. Let's see here. Oh, gallery. Nathan. Not hearing you. No? Well, if I could lip read.

[41:56]

Go ahead, Nathan, you can unmute now. Thanks, Blake. A couple of parts to this question. Does our experience of Zazen matter? Does it matter? Is that a question? Does our experience of Zazen matter? The second part. Does our idea of our Zazen matter? And are we qualified to evaluate our Zazen? I think our experience in Zazen matters, but I don't think we're capable of articulating how it matters. When we say matter, I'm sort of reinterpreting the question, does our experience of Zazen shape us?

[43:03]

And that, to me, the answer would be essentially yes, but on no particular, there's no particular timeframe for that. So in that sense, I feel it matters. Ultimately, I mean, we have teachers so that the teacher can be a mirror to reflect back and we can see ourselves in what the teacher is sharing with us or what the teacher sees. But ultimately, You are the only one who can evaluate your practice in your life. Nobody else can do that. Thank you.

[44:07]

Questions here? I see a hand out there from Judy. Thank you, Hozan. I heard someone say recently that a lot of the sources of conflict are people wanting to do good. And so I'm wondering in terms of the last line in the Fukunza Zengi about the treasure store opening, how you practice with not getting caught in that, or how to come back from that. Well, his statement is a little more simple than that. So your treasure store will open up itself and you will use it at will.

[45:11]

You know, he's not saying you will, then you're going to do good. He's just saying, we'll use it freely. As far as I'm concerned, I tried to keep an awareness that anything that I may do or consider doing that I think of as so called good is almost inevitably going to have its bad side or its shadow side it contains nothing is nothing is pure and the outcome of even a well-intentioned activity that comes from a wholesome mind and wholesome action and intention may also have some dimensions of a negative effect or impact as well.

[46:23]

And so anything that we do, it's important to recognize that there's another side potential within it, and to then observe how that activity unfolds very carefully. And it means, for me, it means being pretty as careful as I can be about what I say and do. And I've gotten a little better at that. And often that means just refraining from doing something or refraining from saying something. Because even though it seems like the right thing at the time, I sit with it and I reflect on it and recognize that if it's something that involves somebody else, I don't have any control over how that person is going to feel.

[47:32]

So I can do my best to try to imagine that, but recognize I'm never going to see the wholeness. I can't even see the wholeness of my own activity, much less can I see the wholeness of somebody else's response. But don't get paralyzed. You know, this is like, I think about, you know, Kategori Roshi, who's written a number of wonderful books. His first book was called Returning to Silence. And his second book was called You Have to Say Something. It's like, there's a really rich teaching right there. But when you say something, there's, you know, there's some uncertainty or risk involved, but you have to say something.

[48:37]

Otherwise, by not saying something, you may be saying something worse. Yadine. Thank you, Hozan. With what you're talking about right now, Isn't the other sort of cautionary part is that when we've decided we're going to do something good, that a danger we often find ourselves in is that we're good and us deciding that it's good and our attachment to it being good and our way that we're going to do it because we've decided this is what they need. How does one move forward with deeds that are viewed as good because we all are blessed and burdened with these minds?

[49:38]

So how do we move forward with that? And remember that just because I've decided it's good, it's not necessarily that way. Right. Did you hear that question? Okay, good. What I try to do in those, I really, I hear what you're saying. What I try to do in those circumstances is a couple of things. Introspectively, I try to look really carefully at what my motivation might be. You know, is it wholesome? Do I see some taint of self-centeredness or ego or righteousness in it?

[50:43]

So that's an internal look. And at the same time, I try to talk to a whole bunch of people. Now, that's not a guarantee, because you could talk to a whole bunch of people who all think the same thing and miss the people who don't. But I do, you know, in decisions that I make in my life and particularly decisions that I make in any leadership position, I try to consult as widely as I can. And that's the best that I can do. And then there's a characterization of Zen as one continuous mistake. And if there's a mistake, if something

[51:50]

turns out to be not useful, then you correct your course. You know, you take responsibility for it and correct it. But yeah, we're all prey to some kinds of self-delusion. That's as close as I can get. Thank you. Helen. I was wondering in which ways are you not ordinary yet? In which ways am I not ordinary yet? Oh. I'm not loath to give you an answer.

[52:56]

I think that's a really good question. I have, there's areas of self-centeredness. There's areas of egotism. There's areas of, there's kinds of ambition. All of those are at least potential pitfalls. Does that make sense? I'm still just, I struggle with this word ordinary. Okay, what's the struggle? It tends to piss me off a little bit. Oh, well, say more. Did you hear that? Okay, go. I'm trying to understand and maybe make peace with it. I mean, there's this, let's strive to be ordinary.

[53:59]

Oh, really? Yeah, right. No, I totally understand. You can't strive. This is actually, it's like dropping body and mind. It's not a matter of, so it's like, there's a koan, or, yeah, in a koan, it's like, There's a true man of no rank, true person of no rank going in and out of the holes in your face. And sometimes you meet a Zen person who you feel is like really saying, hey, I'm a true person of no rank. That's the smelliness I think that you're talking about. Is that right? I mean, often it's, you know, Sojun's referred to as being ordinary, and I don't totally understand it myself.

[55:03]

Yeah, well, good. You have just unleashed a whole series of comments and questions. I can see the hands are going up left and right. We have to end soon, but I think this is great. I think, you know, you've touched something live for you and evidently for others, which I think is great. Vince, you had your... I was just gonna say, for me, it's not gonna be a coordinated mind is, you know, our society today in particular, wants everyone to be amazing and special and fantastic 24-7. Everyone's got to be awesome all the time. And Zen poses the opposite thing, which is, you know, you just live your life.

[56:08]

It's ordinary. There's nothing special. And this is this amazing medicine, this counterbalance to our totally consumerist, destructive side. And when I hear ordinary mind, and when you say Soja was ordinary, that's what I think. He was ordinary in the sense he didn't buy into any of that crap. He just lived his life in a normal, non-special, regular way. And that's the message you can do. That's true. And I will say he had an ego. You know, those of us who work with him, or those of us who were sort of coming up as senior students felt it, you know, I'm not gonna, it's not a criticism, it's just natural. But what brings in mind about ordinary, it's like, we have this whole, we have this very weird relationship to it in this country.

[57:12]

We fetishize so-called celebrities who are, some of whom are famous for being famous. And then we have whole magazines like People Magazine or Us Magazine, which shows these celebrities out walking with their kids or getting coffee or an ice cream. It's like, oh, these celebrities, they're just like us. It's like, we want it both ways. It's a very twisted culture that we have. We want to raise people up on a pedestal, and then we want to cut them down. So none of that is ordinary activity. So one more, I think. Two more. Oh God. Paolo, who hasn't spoken yet. And it seems to me also sometimes when you're in a more authentic environment where people are conscious, we almost need to flip it, don't we?

[58:27]

I mean, ordinary doesn't mean to make dull or make everything gray. It's ordinary for a plant in a particular season to come to full lung. Sometimes the ordinary can include the fantastic, but it's nothing more than the ordinary in bloom. And then it's gone. Yeah. It's being attached to it. It's having to, you know, it's the tail wagging the dog. Right. That's really good. I think that ordinary is not an objective quality. You know, it's very interesting. I had an opportunity a few years ago to be part of a Buddhist Catholic dialogue in Rome, and we had an opportunity to meet the Pope. And I'm not saying this to brag, I'm just, I'm sorry.

[59:29]

And it was really interesting for the Catholics, it was like bells and whistles and fireworks were going on in meeting the Pope, which I can understand. For some of us Buddhists, not so much. And to actually encounter him, he looked at you, he listened. And, you know, he wasn't, he was just a person in that moment. And I found that, that was very moving to me. And Really, I look for that in my encounters with anyone. And it can happen everywhere, not with anybody in any special position.

[60:34]

You don't have to be in a special position to be ordinary. Mary, you have a last word. I was thinking of alternate translations like... Unelaborated or unadorned or authentic or nothing extra? Yeah, authentic. I mean, this is one of the things that I love about this music that I play is mostly thinking about bluegrass music, which is pretty virtuosic. But what I love when I first saw it as, you know, as a young teenager, was that the music was so alive and exciting and really pretty difficult. But that the people, and I think this is true of, this is all true of, this is true of all folk musicians. It's like, when they stopped playing, they were just pretty ordinary people speaking to the audience.

[61:43]

It wasn't like, you know, we're used to these very elaborate performance styles. And a folk style is not, it's the music is intense and complicated, but the performance style itself is then ordinary. So anyway, this is a wonderful exploration and it's a great place to end our study of Fukunso Zenyi. So think about it more, if you have more questions, we have an opportunity to bring it up in Shosong. So meanwhile, enjoy the midday here. Meanings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. Illusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them.

[62:42]

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