When I was a kid, we used to say, there are three of me. Me, myself, and I. We probably did that too. And then, now that we're older, There's four of us. Me, myself, and I, and mine. So these four selves are a big problem for us. multiple personalities.

[01:04]

Ajahn Avaro was in his talk yesterday I asked him to, he said, what should I talk about? And I said, well, how about talking about what your practice is? I said, we already know what you think. I didn't mean that literally. But I said, well, talk about your practice. So he said, when he gave his talk, he said, our practice is just to simply observe the Four Noble Truths, or to study the Four Noble Truths. Dukkha. Everything is Dukkha. And the cause of Dukkha is desire for impossible things. that there is a way out of it, and the way is to follow the various teachings, namely the Eightfold Path, or the Six Paramitas, or those ways which Buddha taught, which lead away from dukkha.

[02:42]

And that's a very basic practice of Buddhism. Buddha's practice is pretty simple. And Suzuki Roshi kept his practice pretty simple. He didn't talk a lot about Buddhism. Buddhism is maybe... I never like to use the term Buddhism. Buddhism is all the stuff that's been attached to the Buddha way over time. I like to talk about Buddha Dharma or Buddha Way, the teaching and the practice. is a term that is not easily translatable as meaning any one thing.

[03:52]

But dukkha is usually translated as suffering, but it also means uneasiness, or confusion or despair or any of those feelings or ill dispositions which are unsatisfactory. And it also includes and pleasure. In other words, dukkha really refers to samsara.

[05:00]

It refers to the side of samsara. And, of course, the three causes of suffering around desire are greed, ill will, and delusion. And of course greed is wanting to hold on to something, grasping. Ill will is aversion, grasping and aversion. are the two major causes of suffering, and they both are elements of desire. One is the positive element of desire, which is grasping, and the other is the negative aspect of desire, which is aversion. And delusion is in between.

[06:06]

Delusion is like unable to not able to, you know, kind of going back between the polarities. And nirvana is the lack of greed, ill will and delusion. In the male sutra, we say, the natural order of mind. Nirvana is the natural order of mind, free. It's total freedom. Sometimes it's, you know, the books will say extinction.

[07:10]

But extinction means free of greed, ill will and delusion. This is also enlightenment. And it's also called empty. Emptiness or void sometimes. But they're sort of synonymous. Nirvana, enlightenment and emptiness, in this case, are synonymous. So we say, Dogen says, practice and realization. Well, practice itself is nirvana. Practice itself is realization.

[08:14]

Practice meaning, for one thing, zazen. and also daily life. Also, So what we need to know is, what is self? What is the self that experiences nirvana or enlightenment? And what is the self that experiences greed, ill will and delusion? And dukkha? Are these the same selves? Or is there a self at all?

[09:25]

Or is there just experience? In Buddhist literature, it talks about birth and death. Buddha talks about birth and death. But Buddhism, or Buddhadharma, Buddhism is interested in a lot of things, but Buddhadharma is not so interested in what we call our physical birth and death. Often, you know, there's a koan, what was your original faith? before your mother and father were born. But that koan is not about your past life.

[10:32]

It's about your present life. It's about present life. It's not about you at all. It's about present life. It's not about the past. and there's much talk about former lives and reincarnation and rebirth and so forth. But that's Buddhism. Buddhadharma, Buddha was very simple. He said these things are not conducive to release from dukkha. Release from dukkha is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about theory. of what happens to the enlightened, Arhat after death, or any of those things. That's not conducive to release from dukkha.

[11:37]

The only thing I'm talking about is release from dukkha. But over a long period of time, people's minds are very active, They create a Buddhism, which is okay. You know, a lot of speculative and theoretical and philosophical monuments. But Buddha's practice is very simple. Even though there's a million things to take care of and to think about in relationship to this world, Buddha's only really focusing on this one thing. how to find this freedom from dukkha.

[12:40]

Freedom from, actually freedom from me, myself, and I, and mine. So Buddha said there really is no self to things. Everything is, all dharmas are void. And when we are born as a person, there's not much sense of I and mine. So really, we attribute a selfness to this baby. But the baby doesn't feel selfness. Actually, the baby can't even hold his head up. When the baby can hold its head up, then it's entering into the world, into our world. But there's a long transition point between when someone is born and when they actually become a person.

[13:51]

We become a person when we take on I-ness, me and my-ness. So what Buddha is talking about is there are two births and deaths. One is the birth and death of the physical body and mind. And the other is birth of selfness and death of selfness. This is what Buddha was interested in. So we say, we're born and die on each moment. Physically, that's true. But personally, is what we're really interested in.

[14:57]

How the self arises. And how this self which arises creates problems. how the self arises where there is no self. That's a deluded view, according to Buddhadharma, that there is a self where there is no self. That we perceive a self where there is no self. Self is empty, and of course empty means many things. It can be interpreted in many ways. Empty means basically dependent, interdependent. All things are empty.

[16:02]

All dharmas are empty, which means all dharmas are interdependent, which means they all depend on, everything depends on everything else. So there is no inherent self in anything. If you analyze any object, you will see that there is no real object there, but there are only dependencies. So basic reality is impermanence. So emptiness means impermanence and it means interdependence. We say things change.

[17:09]

Everything is changing. This is what Suzuki Roshi's mantra was. Everything is changing. Everything changes. major statement, which of course is just Buddha Dharma. But actually things don't change because things don't exist. But we perceive things as changing. We perceive things as existing. And there is some existence. But the reality of existence is impermanence. So even though a mountain seems very sullen, when you look away and then look back, it's not the same mountain.

[18:14]

It's not exactly the same mountain. but we perceive it as the same mountain. And when we see each other day after day, we perceive each other as the same person, but we're the same, but different. And our states of mind, how many states of mind do we go through in one day, in one hour? states of mind change so rapidly that we can't really... there is a somewhat counted, you know, the duration of a state of mind, which is very fast. It's some long number, or some short, you know, long number for a very short period of time. So what we call ourself is rapidly changing states of mind and body, codependent with, as my father-in-law says, molecules and energy.

[19:43]

But that's very reductionist. We don't feel like molecules of energy. We feel like meat. Right? Feelings, perceptions, ideas, consciousness, form. The five skandhas. But the five skandhas are interdependent with everything. So there really is no I. But for convenience sake, we say, me, mine, and I. The problem is that when we say, me, mine, and I, me, myself, and I, and mine, that we don't think about it. I mean, we don't think there is no me, my, myself, and I, and mine. We fall into the trap of believing in what we're saying, believing in our nomenclature, So when we sit in zazen, we have the opportunity to let go of me, myself, and I, and mine, and just experience nirvana or enlightenment.

[21:23]

a non-self-conscious life. If, when you're sitting in zazen, you say, oh, this must be enlightenment, or this is nirvana, then it's not. You can't peek. You can't lift up your chin and say, oh, nirvana. You can be it, but you can't see it. You should just forget all about it. As Dogen says, don't think about becoming a Buddha. When you sit, don't think about becoming Buddha. Just sit. Just let go of me, myself, and I, and mine. What I would like to practice today is when we refer to these five skandhas, to see if you can avoid using the terms me, mine, myself, and I. How can

[22:53]

language be used in a way that avoids these concepts. Because when the concept, when desires arise, me, myself and I arise with them. This is called birth. As soon as the idea of me, mine, and I, me, myself, and I, and mine arise, this is called birth. And when that me, myself, and I, and mine cease, then this is called dying. So we're born and die.

[23:55]

over and over and over again every day with the arising of greed, ill will, and delusion. And we get stuck in the cycle. In Buddhism, In Buddhadharma, one of the fundamental understandings of Buddhadharma is there is no birth and death. In reality, there is no birth and death because there is nothing that is born and nothing that dies. we perceive birth and death because desire in the form of craving or greed, ill-will and delusion create a self which is constantly being born and dying.

[25:23]

Nirvana is to step out of that or let go of birth and death in that sense. You may say, life will be very uninteresting without intrigue, without anxiety, and without creating the little problems which make life interesting. as we know, satisfaction is not dependent on the arising and falling of the skandhas

[27:03]

In Zazen, feelings come up, thoughts come up, but we leave them where they begin. We don't develop them. they take root when they do take root we let go of them so that desire for holding on to something doesn't become rooted and desire for

[28:36]

of getting rid of something doesn't become rooted. And the ambivalence doesn't become rooted. And we just resume our natural state of mind. If we call it nirvana, it sounds too lofty. People always say, well, I said it's a husband, but I didn't attain nirvana. It didn't seem like nirvana to me. That's because of our idea of nirvana. It didn't seem like enlightenment to me. That's because of our idea of enlightenment. So maybe better not to use those terms. But true self, or our fundamental self.

[30:09]

So the goal of practice is to resume to our original state, not blocking anything out. not blocking out the world, but simply not letting things take root. And if we practice in this way, the mind will be alert. the body-mind will respond to circumstances in a very clean way, without hesitating and without confusion, because there's no self-centeredness in it.

[32:07]

That's why we say we don't sit just for ourselves. Zazen is not just something that we do for ourselves. We do Zazen and let go of ourself. just letting go of birth and death and exist in the timeless

[33:13]

place within time. Yeah.

[34:50]

Well, when the Buddha was walking along, he was walking in the forest which was full of leaves in the fall. They had forests in India at that time. And he picked up a handful of leaves and he said, this forest is full of leaves. But it's full of leaves, which means that there are so many aspects of this world. But this little handful of leaves is what I'm talking about. If we look at this little handful of leaves, that's really all we need to study. We don't need to study the vast world piece by piece.

[35:55]

All we need to study is this much in order to understand what I'm talking about. And that little handful of leaves is Dukkha, the cause of Dukkha. that there is a way out of dukkha, and this is the way. Basically, that's what he meant. You can study all those other leaves for various reasons. It's okay. But if you want to know my dharma, it's just contained in this little handful of leaves. It's not It can be complex, but it's not complicated. Complex.

[36:58]

Karma is the most complex of things, but it's not complicated. It's simply the nature of desire. To study the nature of desire and to study the nature of dukkha. and how the nature of desire leads to dukkha. So, as I've said before, getting rid of desire does not mean to get rid of desire, but to transform desire. When a desire is transformed, then it becomes way-seeking mind. The practices that we do in Sashin that seem to be in accordance with

[38:17]

practices of zazen, bowing, all the formal practices, they don't require self. And in fact, it seems that the self Sometimes it seems to be very modest, but it's very tenacious. I might say, I don't need much. I understand there's this whole show here that doesn't really have a big place for me, but just a little place.

[39:32]

It's very sly. And my question is, Is there any place for that bunch of aggregates to arise in that would be the right place, appropriate place? Well, that's a good question. There are two, you know, fundamental positions. One is the horizontal position, and the other is the vertical position. So in the horizontal position, everyone's in the same place. There's no special position. Because wherever you are, you're the same. Everything's the same. Everyone's in the same position, no matter where we are or what we're doing.

[40:38]

there's an above and a below. And this is the position of this person. This is the position of this person. And every person, persona, has a position in relation to all the other personas. And that changes, and it's always changing, like everything else is always changing, although sometimes it seems permanent. But whatever position that we, for convenience's sake, we find ourselves in, from that position, That's the position from which we practice with everything else.

[41:53]

If I'm the toilet cleaner, then I practice with everyone from that position of being toilet cleaner. If I'm the director, I practice with everyone else from that position of being director. But actually, on a horizontal level, they're all the same. Every position is the same. It's just they're different activities. This is why, you know, in the monastery, like at Tassajara, the head monk, during the practice period, always does the So one shouldn't feel that anything is too demeaning or anything is too high. One has to learn how to handle position.

[42:59]

One is in the so-called position of great responsibility. One has to be very careful and come up to that position. and deal with that without creating a self. And if someone's in a so-called low position, one has to deal with that without creating a self. So whatever our position is, it's really the same. It's just that the circumstances are different and the conditions are different, but we have the same stuff to deal with. And he says, according to translations, that it's different, but I am the first and the foremost, and this will never be born again.

[44:09]

What will never be born again? He refers to himself as... But what does it put into the word? It, I think, will never be born again. This is in the Theravadan. Oh, I see what you're saying. But anyway, or I alone in the world honored one, as it gets to Japan. It's translated in different ways, but anyway, could you say some words about it? Well, it depends on which translation you mean. Well, the Theravada, which I've just been reading, is I am the first and the foremost which is complete and this will not be born again. That's one other sentence that I don't remember. Right. This will not be born again. And in the Mahayana version,

[45:16]

It's I alone am the world honored one. Well, you know, I alone means at one with everything. So you can construe it as I alone, at one with, or interdependent with, or emptiness. I am the world on one. But there are other ways of saying it, but if you understand it as at one with, it doesn't mean just me, ego. It means interdependently connected with everything.

[46:25]

So it's not referring to an egotistical or setting up person. And there's an attitude of great confidence. Great confidence. Yeah. The other one would be You know, the Pali scripture is always referring to not being born again. This is the refrain that's always, you know, no more rebirth. But if you look at it in the sense of rebirth of an I, rebirth of a person, or rebirth of an ego entity, then it makes sense. This is why in the Metta Sutra, the way I translated or interpreted the end was that if one follows this way, one will no longer be reborn into the realm of suffering.

[47:37]

One will no longer be There would no longer be rebirth in the realm, in the world of suffering and confusion, or something like that. The creation of suffering for ourselves. Yeah, the creation of suffering for ourselves. In other words, the creation of dukkha. One will no longer be subject to rebirth in the realm of dukkha, rather than talking about being born as a person. The other life and death, right? The one that we're most concerned about. What happens to me after I die? What we have to be concerned about is what happens to us now. No one can know what happens to us after we die. No matter how much speculation there is, you can't know that.

[48:42]

All you can know is And me, not even know that, is what we can do right now to avoid dukkha. And everything else will take care of itself. Yes. You said, I think you said that jirgsas and thoughts or ideas should not take root or don't take root. I said, we don't allow them to take root, even though we do allow them to take root. I'm not saying that you don't do that. You don't allow them to take root? Well, you don't let them take root, yeah. Because it seems to me, I mean, my grasping mind, or my monkey mind, so often sees at the beginning of a period of Zazen, oh boy, 40 minutes to fantasize about X. Or in Jeremy Sachin, oh boy, 16 hours to fantasize about X. And it's almost the reverse, that, oh, here's an opportunity for an idea or a thought to take root.

[49:57]

You're just not doing something. That's all. One can be sitting there all day, not doing something. It's one thing to make an effort to do zazen and have the thoughts come. It's another thing to just open yourself up to fantasizing. So if you're making the effort to do zazen, even though the thoughts are continually coming, which they are, that's zazen. But if you don't even make the effort or think of it as just a way to allow fantasy, you know, give reign to fantasy, that's not Zazen. So, as long as you're here, you might as well do Zazen.

[50:58]

I invite you to do Zazen. No, I know the effort is always there, but Well, you didn't state it as that. You stated it as, I look forward to it as... No, it's almost as if the mind is separate from myself and the effort comes from myself In other words, you, yourself and your mind interact. What does that mean? Is your mind, is yourself different than mind? Well, when I'm observing what my mind is up to, I often feel it's two separate things.

[52:09]

Me and my mind. My mind and me observing my mind. So there's a you and there's a mind. When you say observing mind, what does that mean? How does one observe? But is there an effort to let go after noting that? Well, the very act of noting is, in itself, an act of letting go. It can be. But it sounded like you were saying that you were just looking forward to Vanessa

[53:15]

Well, I think that's one of the traps, or one of the things that happens with our mind. And that's one of the things we, or I, struggle with. Uh-huh. Oh yeah, we all struggle with that. So, I mean, the reason I brought it up was this thing, take root. I mean, when you mentioned that thing, take root. When I said not to let it take root, meaning to when something does come up, we notice it and we pay attention to it as something that has arisen. And then we let go of it so that it doesn't take root and become a dominant dominating Dharma, then take over.

[54:25]

And if it does take over, to live over it. So, you know, thoughts, extraneous thoughts, have a certain duration. Some are long and some are short. But there must be some effort. At some point, it's not an effort. At some point, thoughts just kind of come and go and pass through the mind. But there's always the awareness of zazen. The main thing is that there's always the awareness of zazen. the awareness of posture and breathing, and the awareness of not grasping, and the awareness of not rejecting.

[55:36]

So we don't reject the thought. At the same time, we don't grasp it. So this is the place of Zazen. It's Zazen when there's no grasping and no rejecting. When something becomes too interesting, we want to hold on to it. And when it becomes uninteresting or undesirable, we want to push it away. So when grasping and aversion are neutralized, then we've let go of desire. And that's the desirable place to be. So that goes for thinking and also feeling, like the pain in your legs.

[56:49]

not grasping some good feeling as if this is nirvana, or rejecting some undesirable feeling as if this is samsara. I've been sitting here this morning fantasizing, and actually this week I've been noticing how much it's difficult for me to even get out of my dream life. When I wake up in the morning, I just want to go back to my dream life, sleep, look good, sleep more. I think this is a way to avoid Dukkha, which is what Actually, what you said, but I think you didn't, I think you were like, no. You said something about avoiding Dukkha.

[58:00]

But, anyway, I don't know if I'm getting into a whole conversation about avoiding Dukkha. I don't think you meant avoiding Dukkha. I think it's more like needing. Oh, I see. Because, for me, avoiding my suffering is more empathizing. Yeah, that's getting around it. One does have to face the Dukkha. And the other thing I want to say is, so often when we have these conversations, it always sounds like it's limited to this room. Like, we do Zazen in this room, and then we go out and we do something else. Yeah. Well, during Sashin, I like to talk about this room. But I always, I think that, I always try to add, and in your daily life, I always try to add that. I try to make an effort to say that, so that it's not just in this room.

[59:05]

So here we are. Just one breath after the next. And to be very still. And keep coming back to posture and breathing. Just keep coming back over and over again to posture and breathing.

[59:43]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ