Good morning, greetings, bodhisattvas, good sangha, Dharma brothers and sisters, dragons and elephants, redwoods and apple trees. It's good to be with you this morning. So as Heiko mentioned, I just finished this sort of long process called Dharma Transmission. There's a bit of sewing and studying for about a year, and then there's three weeks of little ceremonies. And the last of the three weeks, I was up at Back Porch Zendo in Sebastopol with my Dharma brother, Ken Sawyer. He and his wife, Elizabeth, are the teachers at Back Porch Zendo, and we used that space to do this Dharma transmission process.

[01:09]

And our teacher, Steve Weintraub, was there for the week also. And David Weinberg was his assistant. So it was the five of us pretty much alone together. It was a great break from COVID, honestly. Our only nod to COVID was to put on the air filter during... service. Of course, we were careful beforehand and, you know, we were careful and we were, we were careful, but it was a nice break. Also from keys, when up there, they don't have any, they don't lock anything. So we didn't have to lock and unlock doors, you know, no keys, no masks. So that was good. The last few, my last couple of Zoom talks, I've taken advantage of my work monitor so that I've had you guys on the left and my notes pretty much reading on the right. But so now here I am in the Zendo and I don't have, I just have some bullet points.

[02:16]

We'll see if I can pull this off. So it's hard to know what to say about Dharma transmission. quite private. And in that way, it was quite nice for me. I'm somewhat introverted or very, maybe very introverted. So these kind of ceremonies like my ordination or my wedding that are, they're kind of like spectacles and you have all this attention coming towards you are not so comfortable for me and intense. And so it wasn't like that at all. It was very quiet, very concentrated. And that was different from what I expected and nice. Also, I was surprised that the emphasis in Dharma transmission was not on wisdom so much, or insight or understanding. The focus was really devotion, you know, or wholeheartedness.

[03:25]

And devotion, you know, is something you can kind of overshoot or undershoot in a way. Someone's saying, can the volume be turned up? Is that on our end, Jo? Is that better? Okay. Thank you. So I was saying that devotion is something you can sort of overshoot or I can anyway, overshoot or undershoot. It seems like for me, if I So we did these ceremonies where we, you know, orbited around to different altars.

[04:30]

And, you know, if I thought too much about the meaning, that's kind of like the overshooting, like you're bowing and you're thinking a lot about the deep meaning. Or, you know, the undershooting was to step too far back, maybe. And then you're sort of thinking, what is this? What am I doing here? But what I found for myself that felt best and worked best was to just really try to keep returning to my body, staying in my body. Ellen and I have been reading through these Sojin's Roshi's lectures that were assembled for this book. And a few weeks ago, we happened synchronistically to read this book passage where he said, you know, and he wasn't talking specifically about Dharma transmission, even he was just saying, you know, it's really not about your, it's not so much about your understanding.

[05:34]

It's about your sincere effort or your wholeheartedness. So these things, devotion, sincere effort, wholeheartedness. And I've been thinking, well, mindfulness is sort of almost the same as wholeheartedness in a way, you know, uh, The Chinese character for mind that, you know, that we use, that we translate as mind is actually for them, you know, mind, heart. They don't have it. They don't separate the two. So something like whole mind, heart, fullness. And then, you know, of course, we don't leave the body out like we tend to do. So maybe it's whole body, heart, mind, fullness. Something like that is. our devotion, how we express our devotion. And you know, this is not to discount insight exactly, I don't think, but you know, so what does our insight in, what does our deep insight into emptiness look like?

[06:43]

How does it look, you know? I guess so the Soto, at least the Soto Zen version appears to be based on my last year or whatever, deep gratitude to our ancestors, upright conduct, honoring the precepts, and concern about future generations. That was the focus of this whole process. So, you know, the first gratitude to Buddhas and ancestors. And we express that continually in many ways. So, you know, even before I went to Back Porch Sendo, we, as I said, we processed around to different altars and they were, each one had an ancestor and doing bow, offering, doing bows.

[07:48]

And when we were up there, more, more of that. And service where you say all the name, you bow down and say the names every day. And also you're copying the name. And these are like the names beginning before Shakyamuni Buddha all the way up and to Sojin Roshi. You're writing them, you're copying them down with a brush on silk. And it's all about that gratitude too. expressing devotion and expressing gratitude to our ancestors. And it's not even, in a way, it's not even, they don't even talk about gratitude for their wisdom. Again, gratitude for their compassion. Gratitude for their compassion in enduring what they had to endure to embody the practice and bring it forth and pass it on to the next generation.

[08:49]

There's this line in the Book of Serenity that I love that stays with me about Bodhidharma, willing to endure the autumn frost so the deep savor of the teachings will last. So that's our feeling towards our ancestors, what they were willing to endure. As we know, human life is full of adversity. We're going through a difficult time now, you could say, but it's really like always. Times when I wasn't having such a difficult time, someone else, other people were. And now in our modern world, we know a lot about what's happening too. So, you know, our ancestors lived through plagues, war, drought, famine, all the kinds of things, you know, political unrest, everything that happened. we're experiencing now, they also carried on through and kept studying, embodying.

[09:59]

So I think the thread of the wisdom is underneath it all in a way, but it's really not the topic, I have to say. So willing to endure the autumn frost. So we bow, we offer, we're grateful to all these Buddha ancestors. It's like about a hundred, almost a hundred people that are named. But also we're grateful, but the other point that's made is that we are just like them. We are them, you know, they are us. You know, there's this thing we chant, the I think it's on the website, but before Buddhas were enlightened, they were the same as we. We in the future shall be Buddhas and ancestors, revering Buddhas and ancestors. We are one Buddha and one ancestor.

[11:01]

Awakening Bodhi mind, we are one Bodhi mind. So the second point or the second focus of this process is the precepts, specifically the 16 Bodhisattva precepts that we take in both lay ordination and priest ordination. But, you know, precepts in general. And again, we've studied that we study the precepts. I'm. very fond of the precepts and try to practice them and talk about them, but I didn't think. So it seems to imply in this literature, this material that we were studying, it seems to imply that what the Buddha passed on to Mahakasyapa when he lifted the flower was actually the precept. So that's not how I thought about that story before.

[12:02]

You know, I think many of you are familiar with it. It's sort of like the, what do you call it, the seminal or the beginning story of Zen. The Zen, you know, approach was this story, this moment when Shakyamuni Buddha, instead of giving the talk, instead of doing a kind of cognitive talk like he was very fond of doing, he lifted up a flower and one of the disciples, Mahakasyapa, smiled. And that's how the Buddha knew that he had received the innermost kernel or core of the Dharma. So I wasn't thinking that that was the precepts that that was being transmitted there with that flower, you know, just not where I went. It kind of says that. It's, you know, the lifeblood, literally, because there's this red line that you draw, you know, the lifeblood of the Buddhas and ancestors entrusted from one to another is the precepts.

[13:15]

You know, it says, you know, I can't quite remember the wording, but it's something like the ethical precepts are the one, true cause of the Zen gate, something like that. In fact, you know, after Reb Anderson did his dharma transmission, it was because in the old days when I first came to Zen Center, we did not study the precepts at all. I think my sense is or my feeling is that I think Suzuki Roshi felt that it would become too much like the commandments. It would be our Christian overlay and it would become, it would, you know, cause more problems than it addressed. So Reb comes back and he says, it said here that the precepts were the one great cause of the Zen gate. What's that about? You know, so then I think at that point, we all began to study, the precepts began to be studied more.

[14:19]

And he even wrote a book, you know, about the precepts. I'm familiar with that, but yeah, I have to say it was still sort of a surprise. But I understand it. It's kind of like how we are with each other is really how this is expressed, you know? And we need help. We need guidance for that always. Let's see. And I, so, I mean, I do think it will be interesting if we have time, hopefully we'll have time to talk. I'd like to hear what other people think, thought was transmitted, think is transmitted. You know, some, there's people here who have had Dharma transmission. What do you, what did you feel like was transmitted from Buddha to Shakyamuni?

[15:25]

Let's just stick with that, you know? And so then the third point that's a focus of the Dharma transmission process is future generations. Keeping this practice alive and passing it on to the next generation. And a deep devotional commitment to doing that, you know. And I did have a sense of that. I have had a sense that something like that was about. And I think maybe here's where the wisdom or the insight comes in, because you don't you're not passing on something like, you know, your grandma, great, great, great grandmother's lace curtain that got passed, preserved and taken care of carefully and tissue paper and passed on to the next person. You know, it's really like you have to embody you have to take it in and digest it and embody it.

[16:25]

as best you can and humbly knowing that you're not doing that good of a job all the time, you know. But yet this is, I've been told, I've been entrusted with this responsibility to pass something on that I have made my own, whatever that is, and continue to try to deepen and broaden. embody something that I've been given and that has helped me, helped me with how to live. So, and so what, you're sort of passing on it's circular because you're passing on this, what I'm talking about.

[17:30]

You know, you're passing on the things that, you know, you're passing on that you need to pass it on or something. It's, you know, you're passing on the gratitude to the ancestors. And I really felt, you know, I feel like I'm learning from other cultures that are more grounded that to honor, to honor the earth, honor, And so I really felt that as we went around to the altars here, that it wasn't just these named ancestors. And I have to say, I went back and forth about the names and the obsession with the names. But anyway. We went around and it's really also to the place. You're really honoring the place and respecting the place where we're able to practice. And up at Back Porch Zendo, one of the outside altars was in this huge redwood grove, like maybe twice as big as the Zendo over to the other side of it.

[18:42]

And the altar that we bowed at was towards one side and facing the middle. So, like, you go down, you know, and when you come up, you see this incredible circle of huge, tall trees. And so, I mean, Ken was, you know, Ken's used to it. It didn't have the same meaning to him, but both the assistant and me, you know, we go, Namu Avalokiteshvara Bosatsu. and all you guys who are clearly the ancestors here right now. So it's important to, for us, especially in our more ungrounded cult, those of us from the more ungrounded cultures to realize the truth that the earth supports us and all living things are supporting us all the time. So that's, you know, devotion to the ancestors and the earth.

[19:48]

The precepts, sincere efforts, sincerity, and, you know, sincerity about following the precepts. No postmodern, you know. Of course, there's room for that. There's room for everything, of course, but... sincere effort to really treat each other with love and respect and care and appreciation all the time. And, you know, so Dharma Transmission provided all these occasions and opportunities to express devotion. Of course, we can do it every minute of every day, and that's really the Soto Zen way. You know, we have devotion to Santa Rita jail. We have devotion to unhoused people in our town.

[20:50]

You know, we can, we have devotion to each other, to our loved ones, but it's really, it was really nice to have this occasion and be sort of like pushed a little towards this, you know, get over your head, you know, get out of your head and get over yourself and just be here doing this right now. The other topic that I wanted to talk to you about is teachers, a teacher-student relationship. And again, it's hard to know how to talk about that, too. I've got this quote. Okay, so here's the idealized version. I love this quote from the Blue Cliff Record about the Tang Dynasty teacher Yunman. Yun-men is this kind of person, able to accompany people through birth and death. Oh, and by the way, I'm not talking about myself as a teacher.

[21:53]

I want to put that right at the beginning. I'm talking about myself with my teachers. And myself as a teacher, that remains to be seen. So Yun-men is this kind of person, able to accompany people through birth and death to help people... The chan master must be like this, making you break open and letting you grab the tiger's whiskers. One must have reached such a realm to be able to teach. If the items of a teacher's equipment are always with one, it is then possible to accompany people through life and death, pressing down the high, lifting up the low, giving to those who lack. Those on the solitary peak, the teacher rescues and sends into the wild weeds. Those fallen into the wild weeds, the teacher rescues and puts on a solitary peak. If you enter a boiling cauldron or fiery furnace, the teacher also enters the boiling cauldron and fiery furnace.

[22:54]

In reality, there is no other purpose but to dissolve fixations and untie bonds to get rid of what blinds and burdens people. So that's the lovely idealized version. And we don't want to get caught on the idealization, of course. But I kind of want to, I don't know if I want to elevate, but I kind of want to place the teacher-student relationship in the pantheon or the mandala of close relationships, like parents and child, brothers and sisters, partners, lovers. best friends, close friends, and teachers and students. And it's not as hierarchical as the parent and child, but it's not as horizontal as best friends. But it has kind of elements of both of those, I would say.

[23:56]

So, of course, in our little lifetime, in our contemporaries, we've seen this go off the rails. quite a bit, especially in Buddhism, but I think probably in other religions and other realms too. And maybe because of that, or maybe just because of our current zeitgeist, you know, it feels like there's more of a sense that, you know, well, we could just sit around together and study and sincerely, you know, with sincere efforts, study together and talk and we could somehow bring it forth from within ourselves. And I can see that happening. I can understand that. Maybe so, but that's not actually the Buddhist story. The Buddhist story is saying there's something that's handed from the Buddha, warm hand to warm hand for a hundred generations down to us.

[25:04]

There's something that is handed down. by people who embodied it and learned it. I was thinking, I often think of this story, a family story in my family of my grandmother, Clara Irwin. One time she was at the beach and she noticed, she was the only one I guess who noticed that People out in the ocean were like struggling or drowning or couldn't get couldn't swim in, you know. And so she organized a chain of people to, you know, start stand on the sand and hold each other's hands all the way out to where these people were and like rescue them and bring them in. And so, you know, I think it's somewhat like that. It's like you you find someone who's on a little bit solider ground than you. And then you also are going to reach out. to other people who are on less solid ground than you.

[26:07]

And, you know, then to flip that metaphor, 180, there's a passage in the Prajnaparamita in 8,000 lines or something where it says, well-placed because without a place to stand. So maybe you find someone who has less of a place to stand than you or less of a need for a place to stand. Someone who's a little more at ease with the inherent instability of everything. And you can also reach out to people who are being more tossed around. So that's kind of, that's the Soto Zen, you know, that's the Zen story, really. And it's scary.

[27:09]

You know, there's this thing called transference, which is basically just that we transfer all our unfinished business from our childhood scene onto our present time relationships. especially our close relationships. And so those come with the intense feelings of childhood often. And it's hard and scary. I wish someone had told me about transference, honestly, at the beginning when I first started practicing, because then I would have been, oh, that's what's happening. You know, I first bonded with the teacher Tension Reb Anderson at Green Gulch. I had a huge, I would say I had a huge transference, you know. It was like I was in love with him and I thought about him all the time and thought he thought about me on, you know, like, and I think we really liked each other. And so there was a close connection, you know, but, you know, I, it was just, I was kind of all over the map, you know, I think a big part of what was happening

[28:21]

was being metabolized in that relationship was my father dying when I was nine years old and, and the feelings that went with that. And so, I mean, he was only like 10 years older than me, but he was like a father. He was like, who knows what he was. He was whatever, you know? And, but, but yet I worked through it and, and he, he was very careful and very contained. And never by so much as a flutter of his eyelid did he ever open any other doors, you know, except this one thing. I'll sit here, you sit there. Let's talk about the Dharma. And then, you know, by the time I got to Berkeley with Sojin Roshi, I didn't have that same intensity. And then with my... teacher, Steve, my ordination teacher and my Dharma Transmission teacher, Steve.

[29:24]

Also, it's, it's definitely the, you know, it's almost like a tractor beam, you know, like you lock on and then it moves, it helps you move through your practice, having locked onto this person. But it doesn't have that same sort of drama. But it's still, I recommend it. I would encourage people. And if there's things about it that you don't like or they're problematic, bring that too. Bring that to the person. Just bring it all. Bring everything that it's about, you know, to the person. I never talked to Reb at all about any of this, by the way. I never told him any of my feelings. So I'm not a good example of that. But it would have been better if I had. So your teacher, your teacher is someone who sees you as Buddha first.

[30:27]

First and foremost, they see the Buddha inside of you. That's the most important thing. But they also see when the Buddha's not in front, when the other part of you is in front operating, you know, and they're invited to tell you about that. And it's hard to hear. But, you know, I've been thinking, I've been comparing it recently to this thing we're learning in those of us who are kind of studying in the multicultural context, the difference between intention and impact, the importance of understanding the difference between intention and impact. It's one of these communication guidelines that you can find online. But your teacher is someone who sees your deepest intention, for sure.

[31:29]

They have to see that. If you don't feel like they see that, then you better either get a different person or clear that up before you go forward. They have to see that you as Buddha, see your Buddha nature, And also, they're invited to comment on your impact on others, which is really hard to hear about. It's really hard to hear about your impact on others. But it's very grounding. It's very important. It's really helpful. It's so helpful. So it's extremely hard to hear, and it's extremely helpful, I would say. And, you know, they hopefully would do it. They wouldn't throw everything at you. They do it gently based on what they observe. And that's why it's really great when we can practice together in some form of where we can see what each other is doing.

[32:33]

So it's very, you know, it's wonderful, honestly, when it can come down to, you know, how you're ringing the bell. You know, it's a really gentle way to hear about it. It's hard to be criticized no matter what, you know. I always say there's this slogan or something that when you feel yourself, there's two ways you most feel yourself when you're falling and when you're falsely accused. And my gloss on that is whenever I'm criticized, I'm falsely accused. But that's how it feels. But as we know, feelings come and go and aren't to be acted on. So that's all I had to say. I think it's a good time.

[33:36]

It could be a good time to stop and have discussion, if there is discussion. Looks like someone... And Gimpo is raising their hand. Yes, everyone. Please feel free to raise your hand and ask questions. We'll start with Gimpo. Please go ahead. Good morning. Good morning. Heiko mentioned that part of this whole Dharma Transmission procedure involved receiving the new Okesa. Yeah. At 8.37 a.m. this morning, you texted me... I can't find my Oquesa. Did you happen to notice it anywhere? And then 12 minutes later, you found it. But I was curious about what your internal experience was like in that 12 minutes in light of having just received it. I thought, oh, this makes perfect sense.

[34:37]

This would happen. This is totally what would happen. That's what I thought. Oh, yeah, of course this would happen. Yeah. Thank you. And where it was, was an interesting place. I placed it carefully. You know, Alan, whenever Alan loses something, it's always where it's supposed to be. Whenever I lose something, it's always in a really weird place. Like I put my phone up on the bookshelf, you know, like, but this time I had actually put it where it's supposed to be before COVID. When I dressed downstairs, I had a place I put my Oquesa. since I've been sitting in the attic with Alan, I've been keeping my ocasa upstairs. And so I haven't gone to this certain place, but somehow I instinctively put it there yesterday after morning sazan. So that's where it was. Thank goodness. I thought to look there finally. Yes. Oh, so Heiko, I'm going to call on Helen, who's in the room with me here.

[35:38]

You had mentioned that... with Reb, you worked through your transference. He didn't give a whiff. Can you say a little bit about what that looked like? And could you repeat the question, please? Yes. So she was referring to what I said about my transference with Reb and how I worked through it and what did that look like? I mean, I think it was sort of sloppy and messy internally. I don't know how it happened, but, you know, For him, it was just like, you sit there. No, you sit there. No, you sit there. No, you sit there. You're not here. [...] I'm not your dad. But it wasn't verbal. It was just carried in the body somehow. And I think you metabolize. Once something surfaces, things that are buried in our unconscious, they need to surface. And once they surface, the sun shines on them. And they evolve and they metabolize and they break down and they just become part of you, something you can talk about, you know?

[36:48]

And I feel like, you know, one thing I've said about Steve is like, well, there was the transference of, there was the transfer of the transference. So, I mean, I had to have some, there had to be, there has to be some glue between me and Steve, you know, even though I don't have these issues about my dad and I'm married and I have kids and I don't have, you know, I'm not looking for a lover, you know, and all that is. But there's gotta be some love. There's gotta be a love connection there. And I had to kind of, a little bit of effort to transfer that over when the time came. Of course, we were close in the old days and I loved him, but it wasn't a one-to-one kind of a thing until I made that decision and we both made that decision. Is that an answer? I think I understand more than what he was doing, but on your side, what that process is like to work through.

[37:51]

Just feeling a lot of feelings all the time. Just feeling it. And, you know, there were other people, putting it on other people, keeping looking for where to put it, you know, and then looking at it and thinking, oh, this feeling, this intense feeling I have is actually not... congruent with the current circumstances, you know. And then, you know, I think it's good to study some psychology. I think, and, you know, whether Buddhist psychology or other, like understanding, oh, understanding transference, understanding that these really intense feelings are coming from my unfinished business that I need to finish, you know. And it's not impossible to finish it. Because he was consistently putting out something very clear. Yeah. He was consistently putting out something very clear. And what you were experiencing didn't match up. Yes, right. You had an opportunity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So he was putting out the same thing all the time, and I was like trying to put it in some category that I could understand, you know.

[38:55]

Thank you, Helen. We have a question in the chat from... One of our listeners. You said that you went back and forth about the list of names. Could you say more about that? Yeah. Yeah. A lot. I think a lot of it was around sort of the gender issue. The reason why I went back and forth, you know, because it's this whole list of 100 names. Almost all men. There is one person who snuck in there. who was either a woman or a two spirits person or something, Hanyatara. And also I consider Ananda. Ananda was such an ally that I consider him kind of in the women's lineage, honestly. He was such an ally to women. But you're saying these hundred names and they're all men. And also the whole idea of preserving the name seems kind of patriarchal in a way. I mean, it sometimes did. It seems a little... patriarchal to preserve these names, you know, that the important thing is these individual names, you know.

[40:05]

I'm totally on board with gratitude to my ancestors, but this thing with, you know, you're doing a lot with these names, you know, I'd have to tell you that it's very concentrated with this ink brush pen that you're trying to write these names on several times. But then I also have to say honestly that We've unearthed all these women ancestors. And it's important to me that I have the names. The names represent the unnamed. So it's much more clear to me with the women that I want to know the names. The names are metaphors for the unknown. The known are metaphors for the unknown. Oh, I forgot something I wanted to say. The reason why I like that Yun Min quote is was because of this phrase, the items of a teacher's equipment, because you're given all this equipment. That quote has come back to me, because in the Dharma Transition, you're given this whisk, this, you know, wisdom water, staff, you know, and these are also, I think, they're real things, and they're also metaphors for being able to...

[41:17]

have many ways to help people, you know, like the thousand arm Kwan Yin. There's sometimes some depictions of the thousand arm Kwan Yin have like a different tool in every, a different item of the teacher's equipment in every hand, you know? So that was just, I flashed on that because of this thing about the metaphor, but the names are a metaphor for something deeper. So that's why I went back and forth. I went, back and forth. And I didn't land anywhere. I'll probably keep always going back and forth. Thank you, Peter, for that question. Lori, I have a question for you. Today while we were watching, waiting for the service, and the cat was scratching the bowing mat and drinking out of the ancestors' water. And these are things that I suppose, and I wonder how do you take that and how do you preserve the formality of the temple while allowing what occurs to occur?

[42:32]

I mean, can you speak about that? Yeah, I mean, I kind of felt that it was a one-off. I mean, we don't usually have the door. We never let sweet pea. come in during Zendo events, you know. But I've seen all of your pets, you know, and I even got out my stuffed dog because it was like, well, everybody else has pets walking through their Zoom screen. I need to have something on the Zoom screen, which I never remember to put, you know, I never remember to get him over to the Zoom screen. But anyway, he's lying around in my living room now. But Sweet Pea came in and, you know, Sweet Pea, I think Sweet Pea misses the whole operation, honestly, because she often... comes around when we're around like this morning during work period, she came around and she comes in and then, you know, I kept thinking, Oh, I know she's going to curl up and fall asleep right on this bound right before service, you know, which isn't exactly what she did, but was kind of what she did. I thought, you know, she just plays it cool and stays in the room or cool together.

[43:34]

You know, that's fine. But so I don't think I saw it as a one-off. I, I didn't see. Yeah. that I was setting any precedent or breaking any precedent or anything like that. She misses all of you. She misses all of you and she's looking forward to when you're back, when you're back here and embodied in person. I see your dog is on camera now. Oh, yeah? Yempo. Is Alex at home? Alex, did you come home for this? Oh, there's Thurber. His name is Thurber because he looks like a Thurber dog. One of my mom's favorite humorous. What's his first name?

[44:34]

John? I forget his first name. Thank you, Yempo. Please bring us here. It's fine to sit quietly until, but if you have a question you're afraid to ask, now's the time. We have it. Mark Capathorn, please go ahead with your question. Unmute yourself, please. Lori. You've been such an important leader in our community for so long, and your transmission is an occasion for community celebration. When are we going to have the party that we're missing? I know. I know. I know. Traditionally, it wasn't that. There wasn't a big party. It's not like an ordination. I don't remember. I think we're invited to give the talk, and maybe we had a special tea.

[45:36]

Andrea, I don't know if you remember what happened for you guys. It's kind of a little on the down low, on the down low. Hard to explain, but we need to have a party for some reason or other. But, you know, that's going to be a while. It's not going to be the first thing that happens, right? Because we're much more likely to be sitting silently in this end of six feet apart than we are to be here at a party, sadly. But... It's a good question. Everybody can celebrate by leaving this lecture and doing something with total devotion. And then you'll think of me and I'll somehow feel it. Thank you, Mark. We have a question from Kabir. Please go ahead, Kabir. Hi, Laurie. Thank you for the talk. Congratulations. Thank you. So what advice would you give somebody that just finished throwing their ruckus and they're on a very shaky ground?

[46:43]

And what would you tell them? I would say you're in very, very good company in both instances. You're in very, very good company on shaky ground. That is the ground. The ground is shaky ground. And you're very good company. getting lay ordained because that's how you get your, that's not how, that's the point, that's pointing to how we get our sea legs to live on this shaky, shaky ground, you know, with upright conduct and grace and, you know, the dance. Some recent talk, was that, who was that? Was that Blake that was talking about the dance, you know, that you learn to dance with the shaky ground? But I'm sorry, I don't mean to not be expressing compassion for your shaky ground. No, no. It goes without saying the shaky ground.

[47:44]

I have to say, our wheelhouse is adversity as Soto Zen students. We can't look at this adversity of COVID. This is where we live. This is given to us. It's not like we need this terrible adversity to go away. We do because it's hurting other people, but for ourselves, you know, we're in our element there with that. Thank you. And what about when doubt arises? Also, you know, sort of like the guilt feeling of the religion that we're born with, you know, that you're not supposed to do all that. And I mean, and you, you will see, you know, one, one parent or a sister or relative sort of just creeps up, but when you're sitting or bowing to the Buddha and everything else.

[48:50]

So there's feelings of doubt, there's feelings of guilt. I mean, all of that, right? Yeah. Welcome it. It's all in the room, right? You're welcome it. And these are, there's a guilty part. There's a part that, you know, is still working on your stuff with your sister or your parents or, you know, whoever. There's all these parts of us. They're all in the room. And for once, during a period of zazen, they are welcome. They can be there. No one cares. You know, it's fine. You take half an hour a day. I think we can take half an hour a day to let all that stuff just be there okay without judgment, you know. And then mysteriously, what does that do for our lives, you know? Yeah, yeah. I think the key is not judging them and not allowing them to judge you. Just let them be. Right. Well, yeah, right. Thank you so much.

[49:50]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Kabir. We have a question from Ross. Please go ahead, Ross. Hey, Ross. Hey, good morning, Laurie. Congratulations. When you open up your talk, you spoke about something is transmitted. What's being transmitted? And then you asked Asanga, what do you think might be transmitted? And I'm wondering about the question of confirmation of what already has been transmitted and if you felt like confirmed going into the process and what changed for you if something was transmitted or if it was just actually an affirmation of what have been transmitted for your decades of practice. Yeah, I think that's a really good point because I kind of wondered if maybe that's why it's not mentioned at all. The wisdom is like you had to have done this to get to this point, so we don't need to talk about that maybe.

[50:51]

I mean, you know, that's not the important thing right now. That speaks to Kabir's point about he's going to be ordained. He has shaky legs, but it's a confirmation of his sincerity of practice of wanting, you know, to walk this path with us. Yeah. And we don't want to get too, I mean, cognitively we separate the wisdom and the compassion or the wisdom and the devotion or something. And I played into that today. But, you know, kind of what it's saying is I think they're not two. They're not different. somehow. And something is transmitted and it's a mystery. And I don't know what was transmitted except maybe something in the quietness. Yeah, I don't know what happened. I really don't. But part of what was transmitted was this, what I'm telling you is like, oh, this is more important than I thought.

[51:53]

This is more important than I thought. This is more important. You know, this, these, you know, gratitude to ancestors is more important than I realized. Oh, the precepts are even more important than I realized. Oh, future generations. Uh-oh. You know, one of the things, one of the pieces of equipment that you, and you know, that's the funny thing is like, you're just trying to be in your body and these things are happening, but then the meaning kind of pops in. So like one of the things that's given is your Ore-Yoki bowls with new claws and it, you know, Please keep this alive. You know, it was like, oh, how do I do that? You know, how come? I mean, yes, I'm assuming we'll get back to doing oreochi, but it seems kind of far, you know, but I just agreed to keep it alive, you know? So it's like, whoa, okay. Well, we all heard that. We're gonna keep you to your word. Thank you so much, Laurie. Thank you.

[52:51]

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