So, it's Kidsendo Day, and it turns out I was thinking about what would be a useful thing to talk about. I guess I have about ten minutes before you guys leave. And maybe before I start, if you would really quickly, if you wouldn't mind, would you just tell me your name and how old you are and we can just kind of go through? David. How old are you, David? Six. My name is Mira, I'm six. Hi. My name is Leo and I'm four. Hi. Leo's my middle name. Hi. Hi. I'm Alex and I'm 12. Hi Alex. I'm Alex and I'm 12. Hi. I'm Malcolm and I'm six and three quarters. Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming. So, I want to tell you, first I have a question. You don't have to answer it right away. But I want to tell you a story which is actually part of my talk about something that happened to me when I was on a trip a couple of months ago in Japan with a group of people.

[01:06]

Some of the people who were in Japan are here. And I made a big mistake. And I just wondered if you would think about, while I'm talking, some time when, if you can think of, you don't have to tell, I don't want to get you in trouble, but if you could think about some time when you made some big goof, really a pretty big one, not necessarily that anybody got hurt or anything, but when you really made a mistake, but it was one of those mistakes where you weren't trying to be, like, sneaky, and you weren't trying to get away with something, you were actually trying to do something right. But you goofed, and everybody knew that you goofed, and sort of what that felt like and what you did. So, what happened to me, or what I did on this trip was, when I was the cook, The Tenzo, that's the term in Zen for a cook, for a group of people, and there were 20 of us, and we were staying in a temple in Japan, and I was in charge of cooking for everybody for three meals a day, and there were other people helping me in the kitchen.

[02:15]

And I had worked in this kitchen before, so I kind of knew how it worked, but it was pretty crowded. It was hard to find enough space. It was a little refrigerator and stuff. So right after we got there, The person in charge, who is my wife here, said, why don't you make okayu for breakfast tomorrow? I don't know if you guys know what okayu is, but it's rice gruel. It's like a rice porridge. It's kind of like really soupy rice. And I said, okay, I'll make okayu, but I don't know how to make okayu with white rice. I only know how to make it with brown rice. And usually when we make it at home, We put the brown rice in an automatic rice cooker and we put in the right amount of water and just push the button. No problem. But this was for 20 people, and there were no automatic cookers. There were just gigantic pots, and I didn't know how to make it with white rice. So I was very lucky, because Hoetsu Roshi, who was the head of this temple, and whose father, where's his pictures, it's still over there, his son, who's now a grown man and a grandpa like me,

[03:31]

was there at the temple, and he is a super good cook and knows how to do all this stuff. So he showed me how to get this okayu ready. And we got the rice, and they measure it in boxes instead of measuring cups. And he put the rice in a big pot. I think it was two boxes. They looked like almost little wooden shoe boxes. And he filled these two boxes full and put them in the big pot. And then he showed me how to wash the rice. And usually when I wash rice, I just put water in and sort of stir it around and pour the water out. I'm done. But he just scrubbed it and scrubbed it and scrubbed it and scrubbed it. I mean, on and on and on and on. I couldn't believe how long. And he explained, this gets the rice ready to cook really well and get really soft and nice. So when he was done, he then took, I think it was 12 boxes full of water. and put them in this gigantic pot. It was like the size of that big bell. Almost exactly the size of that big bell. He said, just leave this overnight and let it sit and in the morning get up really early and turn the heat on and just let it cook and it'll be delicious.

[04:34]

So I did. And it was. It was fantastic. The only thing was, and we served it for breakfast and everybody ate a ton of it. It was really good. And then we brought the pot back to the kitchen, and it was still half full. So we had all this leftover rice. I thought, this is great. Lunch tomorrow. We can have okayu for lunch. And Hoitsuroshi, his son, said, this is perfect. All you need to do is add more water. Just fill the pot up with water and cook it, and it'll be great. And that's how okayu works. And that's why they like to cook it in temples, because if more people show up, more water, more okayu. So I did. For lunch the next day, I filled the pot up with water, and I turned the heat on, and it boiled and boiled and boiled. And it was perfect. It was fantastic. And we served it for lunch, and everybody liked it. Except they only ate about half of it. So I had all this leftover okayu.

[05:38]

And then I started worrying, because it looked like this okayu was going to go on forever. And I didn't know what to do with it. And the refrigerator was really tiny. And there wasn't room for the okayu in the refrigerator. So we kept moving it around. I mean, this was a really busy kitchen. People were coming in and out and helping, and there was hardly any counter space. It was totally crowded up with stuff. And I kept moving the okayu around from place to place, this big pot of okayu, and worrying about what to do with it. And I had so many thoughts about it. I didn't want it to sit out for too long and get rotten, you know, because then people would get sick. That would be terrible. And I couldn't just throw it away. That was no good. And I didn't think I could keep serving it. because I thought people would get sick of it and that I would have to serve it every day. So I asked the wife of the priest of the temple, her name was Chitose-san, I said, I had an idea because there were chickens there and we were giving scraps to the chickens.

[06:48]

So I said, could chickens eat okayu? And she said, yes, chickens can eat a caillou. I thought, I've got my solution. Also, by the way, I'd been giving lots of okayu to the family. The temple family, there were five or six people there, and they were eating tons of it. But I still couldn't make a dent in the okayu. So we got the okayu into a bunch of plastic baggies, big plastic baggies. It was like, I don't know, maybe six big plastic baggies full of leftover okayu. And one day, when someone's taking scraps up to the chickens, I said, take the okayu. And they did. And later that day, Chitose-san, the woman of the temple, came in and said, where's the okayu? Because I told some of the people who live near the temple that there was a bunch of delicious leftover okayu and they could come and get it.

[07:55]

And I said, I gave it to the chickens. And she said, she was a very nice woman, but she sort of shook her head and said, mol tai nai. In Japanese it means, don't waste, don't waste. And I was so embarrassed. All these people had come for this delicious cooking and I had basically thrown it away. And the people who worked in the kitchen knew it and I knew it. And every time she came in the kitchen after that, she would come through and see how things were going and she would go, So that was my mistake. And I wonder what you think, or if any of you have had experiences like that, where you've really tried to do the right thing, but you goofed, and other people knew and said, you goofed.

[08:59]

Can any of you think? I mean, maybe it's not fair to ask you in front of all these people to tell. What do you think? Wisely silent. So, that's my story and what I'm going to talk about today is about dealing with mistakes and figuring out a little bit about why we make mistakes and how we make mistakes and what we do about them. So, I don't know how we're doing for time, but that's kind of That's the story that I think will be interesting to you guys and maybe after that the rest of this is a little bit dry. I'll try. But then it will just go on and on. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening to my story. So, are you guys heading out, or do they stay?

[10:08]

Okay, cool. So, um... Peter, while they're going, just to say, I had very, very similar experience to what she can say. So, 17 years ago, when I was in Soin, Soin, the same, Yeah, what were you thinking? Yeah, and it was very instructive. It was very instructive for me. It also involved rice. So, which leads me nicely to what I wanted to talk a little bit about a small, actually two small sections. in Instructions to the Tenzo, Master Dogen's Instructions to the Tenzo, which many of you, I'm sure, are familiar with. This is something written by Master Dogen, which technically is a set of very detailed instructions to the Tenzo, to the cook in a monastery.

[11:17]

But as Sojin has taught here many times, it's really about cooking your life. And I'd like to read you an incident that Dogen recounts, and it's a conversation between Dongshan, who we know as Tozan, and Xuefeng, who we know as Zepo. Forgive me for my Chinese pronunciation, I'm sure it's Terrible. And Shui Feng was the tenzo in the kitchen and Dong Shan came walking through the kitchen and Shui Feng was preparing rice. And Dong Shan asked him, do you wash the sand and pick out the rice or wash the rice and pick out the sand? And Shui Feng said, I wash and throw away both the sand and rice together.

[12:18]

Dongshan answers, what do people here eat? And at this point, Shui Feng turned over the rice bucket. And Dongshan said, the day will come when you will practice under another master. So there are many ways, I think, to consider this conversation between Dongshan and Shuifeng. It has the flavor, obviously, of a Zen master confronting a student. And in that sense, it has the flavor of a koan, and that's not the way I want to talk about it. Koan practice is something Dogen actually did as well, and it was part of the whole flavor of practice in China at that time.

[13:21]

But I'd like to talk about another aspect of this, and that is this question of, the question that Dongshan asked, do you wash the sand and remove the rice, or wash the rice and remove the sand? It's translated many different ways, but that's the basic question. And I think one way to work with that conversation is to think of removing the sand and removing the rice as two aspects of our practice. So I'm going to get dualistic for a minute, which I know we're not supposed to do, but there's a great term called non-dualistic dualism, so that's what I'm aiming at here. I mean, practice is one thing, but when we think about it in this sense, I think it can be useful. And from this perspective, Removing the sand refers to working with our delusions and our karma, our habits and our personalities.

[14:27]

And removing the rice refers to working with the absolute. with Buddha-mind, with true nature, with pure awareness, with emptiness, with whatever you like to call it. And from this perspective there are kind of these two sides of practice, and you could also say that we sort of emphasize removing, working with the rice when we're on the cushion, and we let our mind settle, and we let go of our habits, and our thoughts, and our karma, and our difficulties, and whatever arises in our body and mind, and settle in Buddha-mind, settle in pure Unconditioned Mind, Unconditional Awareness, Moshin, whatever term you like. And working with the sand, although we can do it on the cushion as well, maybe is more of the business of working off the cushion on our habits and our difficulties.

[15:34]

And it turns out that Of course we have to do both. Although, for me personally, I like the rice part. I don't like the sandy part. And I think that's certainly what drew me to Zen practice, was the notion of residing in this spacious place of free mind, not acknowledging and working on the sandy parts of my life. And I think we're all familiar with this. The precepts are formulated in these two ways, in a sense, right? There's kind of the absolute side, honor all life, But then there's also the other way in which the same precept is formulated, do not kill. So one kind of speaks to, you know, it's sort of, we're both, as human beings, sublime and ridiculous.

[16:37]

And the sublime side is when we're able to manifest our true nature and embody Buddha mind and respond appropriately in this way. This is how we can embody the precepts. But a lot of the time, it's all we can do to contain our habits and impulses, and that's the do-not-kill side, that's the be-careful side, that's the working-with-the-sand side. So, as I said, there is There's no rice in life without sand, although we wish it were not so, you know. Our jobs are sandy. Our partners, although in my case it's an exception, are sandy. And I'm not within, like, Kyosaku distance, so I'm okay.

[17:42]

But most importantly, we are sandy. And it's very important for us to know this and to know the difference in our own lives between the rice and the sand. You know, I'm not a 12-step person, but there's a, and so I think I can get this right, I think it's the fourth step in a 12-step program refers to something like taking a fearless inventory of our own moral defects. And even though we don't talk about defects, our own defects, this business of understanding the sandy part of our life is the ability to recognize our own bad habits so that we can work with them, although we don't like to do this. My mother, who is a lovely person, is a worrier. She's 93. I don't know what she's worried about at this point. Maybe only one thing. But a number of years ago I said, Ma, you worry a lot.

[18:48]

It sort of wears you down, doesn't it? She said, oh no, it's not worry. It's constructive concern. So this is what we do with the sandy part. Maybe I'm going berserk with this metaphor, but we say this sand actually is the good part, and I'm going to build it actually into a castle, and that's me, and I'm going to defend it. And so we cover it over, we cover over it. Some of our deepest habits, it's like To move to another analogy, it's like drug ads in magazines. I work as a marketing consultant, and so I'm interested in advertisements. And I like drug ads in magazines because there's the ad, beautiful picture of some really attractive person running through a field of flowers on a sort of peak allergy day. And I'm not belittling respiratory problems.

[19:53]

I have asthma, so I'm sympathetic. But then there are two pages of three-point type that read like Dante's Inferno, but written by a lawyer, about all the side effects. of this, right? Those are the karma pages. And this is what we do, right? All of us do this. We say, �That's not sand, actually. That's rice.� It's not worry, it's constructive concern. I'm not nasty, I just tell it like it is. I'm not hostile, I just stand up for myself. And each of us has our own particular stories, which we defend, which we defend very aggressively. And even though I'm sure all of us in this room are opposed to large defense budgets federally,

[21:01]

I have discovered that I have a huge defense budget, personally, for protecting these delusions, and I'm well armed. And I think that what's important for us in practice in thinking about this is that this talk about letting go of this idea of separate self, seems very abstract sometimes, you know, what the heck does that mean? No separate self. But actually it's this work on our own delusions and our own bad habits, the things about which we are most defensive, that is part of the work of practice of deconstructing, or at least not reconstructing. this separate self. It's not the whole story, but it's part of it. If you think that you don't run these ads on yourselves, just ask your friends and teachers and partners about the side effects, because they'll tell you about it.

[22:16]

I heard a fantastic joke the other day, or actually it was maybe a month ago, but it stayed with me. about an old guy who goes to the doctor and he says, I've got a terrible digestive problem. I need help. I don't know what to do. And again, I'm not making fun of digestive problems. It's just a joke. And the doctor says, what is it? He says, silent gas. I just am passing massive amounts of silent gas. And I've been working on it. I've eliminated everything from my diet that produces gas. I've read all kinds of books. I've tried everything, and it just won't stop. And even now, talking to you, I have been passing silent gas. And the doctor says, we should do some tests. And he says, like what? He said, a hearing test. So.

[23:23]

So. I guess a lot of what I like to work with has to do with food, but this is about others helping us with our hearing tests, so we recognize if we're passing silent gas and knowing where our difficulties are. And this is a painful business, and sometimes it can seem as though doing this work and being alert to when we're defensive and protecting this self that we've constructed, that Zen practice is just about looking forward to meltdowns and psychological crises and getting beat up or beating ourselves up. And it feels like that sometimes. And I think that if we don't find ourselves a little creeped out by our own impulses and habits,

[24:26]

and even depressed about it, that we're not digging deep enough, that we're not getting down to the really sandy stuff. Fortunately, that's not the whole story, right? I mean, this is just one side. This is just one side of the work we do, and then there's the other side. There's working with the rice, there's being nourished by our samadhi and our ability to be in touch with, and become illumined by our own original mind. Otherwise, it's just, you know, it's gruesome. Really, I mean, it is gruesome, and I think all of us who have been practicing for a while have gone through these periods where it's kind of like, oh my God, yuck! But that's not the whole story, but both are necessary. Sometimes they say that certain practices and certain teachers emphasize the rice, emphasize enlightenment, wake up, pass your cons.

[25:32]

And it's interesting that one will meet sometimes students who are very adept on that side of practice, but they're jerks because they haven't done the other work. On the other hand, just doing the other work and digging into your character and your habits without some illumination also isn't enough. It's just not enough. So, I want to return to the Okayu story, because the question that was interesting for me was, what happened? Why did I do that? Why did I throw away, like… three gallons of okayu. What happened? And there are many good reasons. I certainly could come up with many true things. There wasn't refrigerator space for it. It was kind of cruel to keep serving the same thing, meal after meal. It was good, but it wasn't that good. Maybe it was a communication problem with Chitose-san, right?

[26:36]

Because we did this in Japanese, and my Japanese is pretty shaky. I think, in fact, what happened was, I thought I was asking, can I give the okayu to the chickens? And she said, sure. But what she heard was, and what I actually asked was, could chickens technically eat okayu? And she said, yeah, sure. And I could also say, you know, Hojo-san blew it. Hoitsu-roshi. Had me make too much. I was just being a good student, doing what he told me to do, and it's his fault. But why couldn't I bear the okayu any longer? And actually, you know, The motainai is a good lesson, but the interesting question for me is, how do I not waste this mistake I made?

[27:36]

What is there for me to see here? And I'll tell you, I mean, this is just my own particular sand, right? For me, what was underneath it, after thinking about it and working on it for a while, was something pretty familiar, and it sort of bubbled up out of I need to be a person, I am a person who knows what to do. Right? I've got a green rakasu. I can speak some Japanese. I've been in this temple before. I'm the cook. I'm a tour leader, etc. etc. You know, all the little building blocks, right, of one of my stories, which is, I just can't go on day after day not knowing what to do. I can't stand it anymore. So I'm just going to get rid of it. I'm going to get rid of this problem so I can embody this Peter Shearson that I think is sort of what's happening. I mean, that's just my own particular little difficulty that I have to work on.

[28:42]

And that was helpful to me. And it turns out it's a familiar tune for me. And we should all know our familiar tunes. We should all know our familiar tunes. And usually, when we goof, and we get, you know, publicly, which is a great opportunity, right, when we goof publicly and find ourselves wanting to defend ourselves. But I, but I, no, that wasn't, but I, those are great moments. Those are great moments to wash the sand out of the rice. And only we can do this, right, each of us. Only we can do this. Nobody else can do it. So let me close with another quote, and then maybe there'll be some time for a few questions or comments if you have any, from instructions to the Tenzo. This is Dogen talking about an experience he had staying at a Chinese monastery. I won't even begin to try to pronounce the name of it. But he said, when I was staying at this monastery, a monk named Lu held the post of Tenzo.

[29:48]

Once, following the noon meal, I was walking along the eastern cupboard walkway towards a sub-temple called Chaoran Hut when I came upon him in front of the Buddha Hall drawing mushrooms in the sun. He had a bamboo stick in his hand and no hat covering his head. The heat of the sun was blazing on the paving stones. It looked very painful. His back was bent like a bow and his eyebrows were as white as the feathers of a crane. I went up to the Tenzo and asked, how long have you been a monk? 68 years, he said. So maybe he became a monk when he was a kid, you know, but he was in his 70s and the average lifespan in China at that time was under 35. This is an old, old man, hatless in the sun. So Dogen says to him, why don't you have an assistant do this for you? And Lu says, other people are not me.

[30:54]

Dogen continues, he says, a venerable sir, I can see how you follow the way through your work, but still, why do this now when the sun is so hot? And the Tenzo says, if not now, Dogen says, there was nothing else to say. So, maybe you have some... I think, Ellen, we are out of time. Maybe you have some comments or questions. Hi, Ellen. Thank you. Hi, Ellen. I had a question about... I love that story about the lights and the family. I was wondering if the story is about if the sand and the rice really can't be separated, then how do we know which one is the treasure? Is it the rice or is it the sand? And I wonder about your talk, talking about how we should examine our sand and become intimate with that and sort of work on that.

[32:04]

And I wonder if, in my experience with myself and with others, I find that working on sand can be another way of strengthening ego. Because it can be another way of having a story. I'm a person that has this problem, and this problem, and this problem. Right, well there's no end to the difficulties. I'm not building up this person that has these problems. Right. And I can cling to that too. Absolutely. And other people can sometimes cling to that too. And I think, I wonder if, is this practice a self-improvement program? Or, is this practice I think that it's certainly possible to, you know, the ego is like the old Timex watch, right? It takes a licking and keeps on ticking, right? So it's possible to turn anything, any work we do, our difficulties or our awakening, into a big story, right?

[33:11]

There's no end to the work. And I think maybe one thing to focus on for me is whether the sand is a treasure or not. And as I said at the beginning, this is kind of a dualistic way of thinking about things. It's a good idea not to serve it to others as rice. It doesn't taste good. You may know this story that I read some time ago. It's one of Robert Aiken Roshan's books. It may be in the Rowan Heart or Path of Color or one of those. It's a story, it's called Eating the Brain. Right. That Tenzo story. Right, about the head of a snake or something? Yeah, a snake, I guess. Yeah. And so he was just chopping away and found out later, after he cooked the greens and made this soup, that he chopped up a snake that was in the soup.

[34:26]

And served it to the teacher, didn't he? I can't remember. Maybe it was, but you know. Yeah, I think he served it to the teacher and the teacher said, what's this? And he just ate it. Well, I'm still munching on this okayu right now. That's one way, in the context. I think context is important. In that context, and in the context there, which was a Japanese context also, that way, it's a kind. eating the blame is good yeah sure I find I get caught up in the rise from the sand of course

[35:33]

There are things I have to do in my life that I don't want to do, but once I launch into these programs, the things I have to do, I tend to forget rice and sand. You know, when I have to perform a task, write something, do something, whatever is required of me seems to take away rice and sand. grateful for that, and it takes away all, if I'm feeling really wonderful or not, I know I have to do this thing. But one of my big things is procrastination, so, you know, it's not all that perfect, I can't just say, well, forget rice and sand, and launch into chopping wood and carrying water, because it's like, I have to chop wood and carry water, you know, and then that becomes a big deal. Anyway, there's been That's your drama. Yeah. Please enjoy yourself. Thank you for your talk.

[36:54]

The woman who was disappointed by you giving the rice to the chickens? Yeah. I don't know if disappointment is exactly it. But please continue. Well, you say what you felt it was, but what I wondered was, so after she acknowledged, oh, don't waste, then through her practice, was she also able to drop it and move on with you? And it seems to me that's a really important part of making mistakes is, you know, acknowledging it and then letting it go. Well, Chitose-san, some of you know her, is an inspiring person. She is a true woman of no rank. She's a temple wife in a very busy temple who is like her generosity.

[37:58]

appears to me to be boundless. And when she said, and the way in which she would say, motainai, to me, or anything else, was no different than the way she would say it to herself. or to her husband, or to anyone else. So, if I portrayed her as a crabby person, I didn't mean to do that, but I think, right, it's good to let go of this stuff, for sure, and I think that, for me, in my own practice, what's useful, you know, a lot of what arises in zazen and just in life, but in zazen, for example, it's just noise, right? You know, for me, there seems to be, at the moment, some kind of a loose cover over the area that holds the lyrics to all rock and roll songs from the fifties. And, you know, earth angels, silhouettes, I mean, they're just, and I don't think it, you know, I just have to deal with that, but some of the stuff, as you know,

[39:03]

if you listen deeply, and I'm not suggesting Zazen is about self-study and self-improvement, as Ellen mentioned, but then there's stuff that comes up over and over again, but that's the stuff that almost arises out of our body, and it's just really rich material, and I think there's a great dialogue between Joshu and a student, and the student says to him, you know, what do you say to someone who has put it all aside? was throwing it all away, and Joseph says, throw it away. And he says, but I just told you, I threw it away. And Joseph says, okay, keep on carrying it. And in a way we could hear that as a kind of poke, and it is a poke, but also it's a good instruction, and I have to acknowledge my wife who pointed that out to me. It's a good instruction. If you can't throw it away, if it keeps coming up, you have to keep carrying it until you're done. You were saying that, you were talking about all the gruesome sand, and then you said that there's the other side that is just important to remember so you don't get too mired in the gruesomeness.

[40:23]

How we're nourished by Samadhi. What is Samadhi? I think it's not just, thank you for your question, and I think it's remembering, but it's returning to it, you know, not remembering it as in, even though, returning to our unconditioned mind, returning to the one who's dropped everything, call it what you like, you know, returning to our true nature, awakening, that there's that side of practice. Does that look like I'm answering your question? Well, we have all these key words about true nature, awakening, unconditioned mind. Yeah. There it is. Right? Keep shaking your head. Okay? One more question? Yes, thank you very much for your tasty teaching, and I wondered if you could mention when you will be teaching again.

[41:35]

Oh, that's right, that's right. I forgot my marketing role. Actually, I should mention two things, as Ellen mentioned. This was one little incident from this trip which was really interesting, and Ellen was on the trip and Richard and a number of other people who practice here, and Grace is going to be talking here on the 6th, as Ellen mentioned, about that whole trip and the whole experience of visiting Japan and practicing in Japan and practicing with Hoitsu Roshi, and also we've got a retreat from December 27th to January 1st at Empty Nest at our Zendo, and there's space if anybody's interested in getting away for a a fairly low-key, it's not a knee-breaker retreat. Thank you for reminding me. Hi, Bukka. I was just wondering, I'm just out of curiosity, when Khyentse Tsang said, Mothayai, what did you say?

[42:40]

Did you say, oh, sorry? I said, You're a so-called Roshi husband. No, I said, which means basically, there is no excuse for me. And as I bowed, I thought, oh my God, what was I thinking? And that's really the good question. What was I thinking? It's good to know. Weren't you thinking that there were chickens to be fed? You know, the truth is, I could have been, but I wasn't. I wasn't thinking there are chickens. I was thinking there are chickens who can help me get rid of this. Make the pain go away. The chickens were fine. Well, you know, for me, for Chitose-san, the concern was waste.

[43:57]

And for her, you know, Motainai actually was just another way of saying, wake up, right? So, that's, you know, for me, you know, U Mon, Yun Mon said, when asked, what is the teaching of the Buddha's entire lifetime, he said, an appropriate response So my response wasn't appropriate. And so my question was, how come? That's all. You know, it's also contextually true that food cooked in that temple kitchen during a practice period that would be given to people in the community is also, it's special food.

[45:19]

I mean, they don't, it's not, they don't think leftovers, they think dharma, dharma. So, it was a, it was a big goof, you know. So, anyway. Beings are numberless.

[45:46]

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