Thank you all for coming. And so now we get to look more deeply at this poem. I got hung up on that word. Deeply. Deeply. It seems like it keeps coming up. First of all, on the heart's return. And then in a number of Thich Nhat Hanh's writings, I started reading some of these books because I wanted to understand what he was thinking about emptiness. And I kept thinking, he must be thinking about emptiness during this poem. But we shall see. I think what I'm thinking about now is how when I was approaching this poem again, I thought, well, what's the best way to get to know it inside out?

[01:13]

And maybe that's to memorize it, but I didn't do that. But reciting it clarifies the language a little bit. I'm going to go ahead and recite it again, and then kind of plunge in. I have my notes in red. Please call me by my true names. Do not say that I'll depart tomorrow, because even today I still arrive. Look deeply, I arrive in every second to be a bud on a spring branch, to be a tiny bird with wings still fragile, learning to sing in my new nest, to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower, to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.

[02:21]

I still arrive in order to laugh and to cry in order to fear and to hope. The rhythm of my heart is the birth and death of all that are alive. I am the mayfly metaphosing on the surface of the river, and I am the bird which, when spring comes, arrives in time to eat the mayfly. And I am the frog swimming happily in this clear pond, and I am the grass snake who, while approaching in silence, feeds itself on the frog. I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones, my legs as thin as bamboo sticks, and I am the arms merchant selling deadly weapons to Uganda. I am the twelve-year-old girl, refugee on a small boat, who throws herself into the ocean,

[03:23]

after being raped by a sea pirate. And I am the pirate, my heart not yet capable of seeing and loving. I am a member of the Politburo, with plenty of power in my hands, and I am the man who must pay his blood, his debt of blood to my people, dying slowly in a forced labor camp. My joy is like spring, so warm it makes flowers bloom all over the world. My pain is like a river of tears, so full it fills the four oceans. Please call me by my true names, so I can hear my cries and laughter at once, so I can see that my joy and pain are one. My notes don't seem to have the last stanza.

[04:36]

Can somebody read it? Please call me by my true name so I can wake up, and so the door of my heart can be left open, the door of compassion. Thank you. At the beginning of the poem, I kept being struck by the beginning. Do not say that I will depart tomorrow, because even today I still arrive.

[05:38]

He's sort of, not really hinting, but strongly suggesting that we look at this sort of existence as a constant flow, constant change. That even if you think you're showing up, you're not showing up quite as much as you think. So then we start hearing these couplets look deeply. I arrive in every second. And of course the Heart Sutra has something to say about that. And there's a

[06:47]

Thich Nhat Hanh has to say about... Yeah, in this book, which is a Thich Nhat Hanh's translation of the Heart Sutra and commentary, little part in the section near the beginning. He says it's entitled, Empty of the What? So I'm just going to read this paragraph. If I am holding a cup of water and I ask you, is this cup empty?

[08:14]

You will say, no, it is full of water. But if I pour out the water and ask you again, you may say, yes, it is empty. But empty of what? Empty means empty of something. A cup cannot be empty of nothing. Empty doesn't mean anything unless you know empty of water. My cup is empty of water, but in the mist, but not empty of air. This is quite a discovery when Avalu Gita says that the first skandhas, that the five skandhas are empty. are equally empty. To help him be more precise, we must ask, Mr. Avala Tita, empty of what?

[09:24]

seems to kind of reinvent language in some ways, completely not afraid of doing such things like that. And so he, he wants to, he reinvents a concept that has to do with how everything is related to each other and everything, each thing in the world that you can possibly even think of is connected with something else insofar as it defines that other entity. And so

[10:54]

I'm trying to remember the word. Oh, I know what it is by saying that. He invents this term inter-ar, which I think many of you are familiar with, which is the radical plural of E. You know, I am. So, look deeply. I arrive in every second to be a bud on a spring branch, to be a tiny bird with wings still fragile, learning to sing in my new nest, to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower, to be a jewel hiding itself in the stone,

[12:04]

So even in hidden things, that same conditioning relationship continues. Things that don't have on the face of it much moral baggage It's just life going on as it goes on. And yet, I still arrive in order to laugh and to cry, in order to fear and to hope because that's what life is like. He's encouraging us to bring all of that into each moment.

[13:28]

Even the most difficult and joyful moments. They're all a part of our life together. I am the mayfly metaphosing on the surface on the river. And I am the bird which, when spring comes, arrives in time to eat the mayfly. And I am the frog swimming happily in the clear pond. And I am the grass snake who, approaching in silence, feeds itself on the frog. So here we have the middle part of this progression of relative simplicity going towards even more complexity.

[14:38]

Although, when you think about hiding yourself in a stone, that's pretty complex too, the more you think about it. So then, these couplets start to involve humans, and that's where it gets a little bit heavy. I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones, my legs as thin as bamboo sticks, and I am the arms merchant selling deadly weapons to Uganda. I am the twelve-year-old girl, refugee in a small boat, who throws herself into the ocean after being raped by a sea private.

[15:42]

And I am the pirate, my heart not yet capable of seeing and loving. I am a member of the poet borough, with plenty of power in my hands, and I am the man who has to pay his debt of blood to my people dying in a forced labor camp. So I'm just going to read a couple sentences that I wrote. At all levels of consciousness, beings act to meet needs to survive and to thrive as best they know how. When the conditions are faced squarely without seeking retribution or otherwise causing further harm, but with love and understanding

[16:49]

and empathy, those in conflict can find a path to mutual acceptance. So it's just finding a path to mutual acceptance may not involve being nice. It really involves meeting circumstances without your... without trying to get a result. And... The salt springs forth from everyone's good will and stay with it.

[18:03]

My joy is like spring, so warm it makes flowers bloom in all walks of life. My pain is like a river of tears. so full it fills the four oceans. Please call me by my true names, so I can hear all my cries and laughter at once, so I can see that my joy and anger, joy and pain are the are one. So the last couple. Please call me by my true names so I can wake up, so the door of my heart can be left open, the door of compassion.

[19:19]

So what's he calling for? Reality. Mm-hmm. What did you say? I said reality. Compassion and empathy. Empathy, I think, really. Yes. Yes, Katie. I keep thinking of, um, dialectics and reality as relationship. So the Sea Pirate can't be a Sea Pirate without refugees and victims. Yeah. That's right. And the Politburo member can't be what he is without enemies of the people.

[20:23]

Right. He can't have power without someone suffering at the other end. It's not hard to imagine. They're all causally related in the same way. They're causally related in different ways. Yeah. He always talked about deeply understanding, like he would say you don't really love your if you don't understand that deeply.

[21:27]

The love requires deeply understanding. That's part of what he's getting at, deeply understanding. So it's sort of like, how is that? How do you know that that's the step you're taking? It's dangerous.

[22:30]

On the other hand, we give each other names. For instance, in this practice, we give each other's names We also imbue them with meaning. Can you hear us?

[23:38]

There's a couple people online that wanted to say something. Oh, good. Who do we have here? We have Deborah and we have Joel. Oh, okay. Deborah, why don't you go ahead? Hi, thank you. I was just responding to your question of what he's calling for. I was just struck by the fact that to me, he's calling that we see each other in each other. We aren't different than the You know, the man that's raping the girl or the caterpillar and the flower. And that it's, you know, I think he's asking that, that we stop the separations. To me. So thank you. Yeah. Is it easy to stop the separation? Is it easy? No. Once and ever. That's why we're at the Berkeley Zen Center. Joel? Okay, thanks. This is great. One thing was said that really struck me, which is that without power, there can't be suffering.

[24:48]

And I'm not clear that's always true, at least for those words. Like, Sojin Roshi had power. He had power in himself in how much he could help people. Um, he also sort of in a separate sense, you know, it was a certain bureaucratic power while he was Abbott. Um, and, um, he helped people along. And so, so, I mean, it's something to look at, you know, um, it's sort of, you know, um, just to raise that, I don't know. Yeah. It seems to me maybe the words are, we're talking about a different thing. But, you know, I think it's tricky using words. And so there's power that can be used for compassion. Thich Nhat Hanh has a lot of power. Martin Luther King had a lot of power.

[25:51]

You know, Martin Luther King created this whole movement, inspired so many people. That's a certain kind of power. I'm going to say that I'm going to propose, it's not a proposal, it's something people talk about, which is the dimensions of power insofar as we have power over, power under, and power with. And I think those two examples you gave are prime examples of power with. Or power to. to do something, which winds up being power with what you're helping, helpful, what you're trying to help, what people or cause. Yeah, power with. Power in connection. Yeah, power in the context of mutual connection.

[26:52]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Thank you. Sure. Joel, did you want to say something still? Say something. This is Linda. I had a note in the chat. Yeah, Linda wanted to say something. Hi Linda. So when I was very early in Buddhist practice, I went to a Thich Nhat Hanh, I guess you'd call it a retreat. It was at a golf club in Florida. And I was very, very ignorant.

[27:54]

And I remember a man asking him a question about how to get past his anger, because he was so angry and Somehow, I don't remember exactly how it proceeded, but Thich Nhat Hanh talked about this pirate. And I thought, uh-uh, I'm not, no way. I'm not like that pirate. And it's a wonderful time for me to reflect on how past I've come from that time. And I think that's such a problem for all of us. all of us to not be that bird or pirate or girl that was raped or whatever. And it's wonderful to be reading this poem and thinking about that incident.

[29:00]

Thank you. Thank you. So I suggested last time we met that each of us consider spending some time finding out if there were any verses that we'd like to add. And I tried to do that, and then I tried again, and then I tried again. This is pretty personalized, but anyway, let's write it out.

[30:26]

a grown man who sleeps well and has never and has yet to yet to to appreciate his access to life's resources. And I am a homeless teenager who cannot find comfort. Night after night on the sidewalk. Wouldn't anyone like to share something?

[31:50]

Yes. Just expanding on something I said in our first class. The dog ate it. Here it is, here it is. I am a mother of two daughters, a citizen of Gaza, fearful of the imminent threat of death of the 2,000-pound Mark 84 bombs being dropped on the only homeland they have ever known. I am also a mother of two daughters, the CEO of General Dynamics, wrapping up a board meeting celebrating our increased bottom line and checking in with my security detail also fearful of the imminent threat of death. And I am the law-abiding, tax-paying citizen of the USA who has made all this possible.

[32:58]

That's power. Some form of... Hmm. Peter, I'll try one. Sure. Didn't work on it very much, but I felt it at the time. And I am President Trump, so angry, craving, full of vengeance, wanting something. i'm sorry i am a lithium miner in africa abused exploited and injured from unsafe working conditions and i'm an american teenager so excited about my new cell phone

[34:29]

year round in that place Hannah's heart has long loved. And the child who arrives there for the first time finds safe refuge, wearing down forever knowing the paths from one loved place to another. Can you ask if they heard that? Could you folks hear that? No. Would you mind? I am the marmot, the deer mice, the chipmunks and ground squirrels living year round in that place Hannah's heart has long loved. I am the child who arrives there for the first time and finds safe refuge, wearing down and forever knowing

[35:59]

the paths from one loved place to another. I am a father preparing to move myself and my daughter into our car. and I am the man's landlord dealing with the unpleasant but necessary task of evicting a tenant who can't pay the rent to ensure my own financial future. to see the lake and life in Carson Pass.

[37:23]

Aware, concerned, frightened for those of my heritage who have come more recently and lack the documents that legitimize their presence. And I am the migrant from Columbia sent home in handcuffs. I am Donald Trump's eager supporters hoping and praying that he will transform Washington so that my hard life struggles will be eased. I am the heart that leaps and bounds at the sight of you. And I am also the insecure, heavily defended heart that believes I can will you into loving me. I am the breath of this time and place

[38:25]

alive to the sights, sounds, tastes, and touch of a world vibrating with clarity and beauty. And I am the worker, embedded in contracts, technologies, and histories that seek more from me than I can possibly deliver. I am a calm and full breath and open heart, exquisitely attuned to the most sensitive revelations of my experience, and a mind that observes with curiosity and delight. I am also the anxious mind that asks my heart for its hall pass, and if it's not signed, turns it away, and I am the heart that meekly obeys. I am also the heart that barrels through the restraining arms of security, scattering people left and right to be seen. I am the magnificent sky, streaked with red and orange and nightfall, and I am the distant fires burning, pitting carbon into the air.

[39:43]

Did you have something to do with that? Yeah, yeah. Do you have a favor to ask if anyone's driving towards Salado car battery died? I'm going to mute this during the break.

[41:01]

So, what do you all think of your own interaction with this poem, this work? It's sort of like, yes, there's some things to think about around this poem, but there's also the embodiment of the poem. Where is that? You know, what's your gut sense, your physical relationship with this particular work? I have a comment? Yes. So the poem repeats I, I, I, me. And on the first reading of it, I think I said, oh, you, you, you, you.

[48:10]

But the more I read it, it's me, I. It's literally I am each of those things. And I think that's the challenge the poem presents us with. Thank you so much. So how do you somehow find a way to do it?

[49:24]

You find a way to do it. Thank you for asking. each thing in its, which I don't think is the opposite of what this is saying, but it's the other side of total distinctness.

[50:52]

Yes, total distinctness as borne by utter emptiness. I think that's right, and I guess what I wanted from the poem or something is that the blade of grass is the blade of grass. Not that omnibus, But we did that side. But how about the blade of grass is the blade of grass side. Yeah. Which I think it's just me being grumpy because I think it's there. I think it's there. But I just, it's what I want to happen next. Yeah. And it doesn't. And I think I wanted to confess and repent. Yeah. My grumpiness about it because it just like, it bugs me that that's not the next move. Like, yeah. I also had that response and it's frustrating because... and then I started reading this book.

[51:59]

This is the Garajna. Translated and commented on by Tugan Han. Ms. Doshan, you are not it. The truth in is you. It is you. So I think that's where Thich Nhat Hanh is coming from. But before he says that, he says, everywhere I go, I meet myself. Yeah. So I think, yeah, that Thich Nhat Hanh is saying, calling by my true names, identifying with, in truth, it is you. You know, not making anything into an object. Not making anything other. The frog is completely the frog. And, and. You know, that's what I get out of it.

[53:01]

Or, you know, Titan, Dan Layden said, you can think of suchness, the teaching of suchness, as like the positive aspect of that penis. You know, what Thich Nhat Hanh calls the intervening. Yes. Right, so, hey, you know, discomfort there and then absolutely the frog is completely the frog all at the same time. Completely. Or the human said the whole universe is me. It's not so arrogant. It's another way of saying, call me by my true name. Well, when do you stop? You don't. You don't because you can't even open your mouth because it's choked by my true names. Yes, Katie.

[54:04]

I guess I find this challenging also in a somewhat different way, just in that I think he means all this literally, not metaphorically. And I think of the teaching that I read from Thich Nhat Hanh, like a piece of paper is not its own being, it is the sun on the plants and the water and all these things, which makes sense. kind of abstract thing that is not me and I guess I'm kind of I feel challenged by this poem to think about how I, if my boundaries are not clear cut, am also all these things.

[55:07]

I couldn't exist without the member of the Politburo back in the 70s or 80s or whatever it is, etc. Yeah. So the distinctness and beauty and preciseness of your boundaries also implies that for everything else, everything else exists in the same way. distinct and beautiful interrelatedness. I guess what this poem brings to me is I find 10 stories point to the grass and the frog as being absolutely themselves.

[56:18]

And I also get from this the deluded thought is as much itself as that frog, as absolutely itself. And what do you do with that? I don't know. According to Thich Nhat Hanh, Nagarja says, because of emptiness, everything is possible. Emptiness or everything is possible. Yeah. Because emptiness. Emptiness is possible and everything else is possible.

[57:31]

To me this just awakens compassion for the deluded. Yeah. As being as much here as anything else. So then you are empowered to meet Open heartedly meet my delusions and not try to cast them aside, but to open my heart to them. may not be able to actually, I think we need to exercise the microphone again.

[58:36]

I'm going to read something out of this book. I just opened this page and it says, say you plant a seed of corn, if it had a self-nature, In other words, a sort of unique quality that was only unto itself. If it had a self-nature, it would always remain a seed of corn because self-nature remains itself and cannot be destroyed. However, the seed of corn does not remain itself. It can be destroyed. and because of this it can sprout and become a corn plant. Due to the absence of a self-nature, the seed of corn has a chance to manifest. A self-nature is an unchanging essence. It is the same and it cannot become something else.

[59:42]

If you say that all phenomenon have self-nature, then no phenomenon would be able to manifest. It is because phenomenon do not have a self-nature that they can manifest. Because emptiness is possible, everything is possible. I never in the world think, had thought that I would become interested in this. In fact, I read it every night before I go to sleep. when you observe phenomenon more deeply, it opens up a possibility that that can be sort of in conjunction, that can be in partnership with your friends.

[61:31]

So it's interesting what you said about, somebody said about Thich Nhat Hanh saying, you know, I'm here in the Zafus or whatever. Thich Nhat Hanh saying, please call me by my true names. And he's listening. We didn't really talk yet about how he's saying, don't pin me down to what you think I am. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Don't pin me down to what you think I am."

[62:48]

He's saying, you know, like, like, call me by my true names. When you see me, see that I'm all these other people, all these other things. Like, that's hard in a way. Yes. What does it mean? You know, what does it actually mean to do that? Well, the answer I came up with in the last few days was, It is hard. So he's asking you to be honest with yourself and not turn away from the challenge, which is to It takes a fair amount of patience to take that on.

[63:56]

Yes? That reminds me of when I'm saying, I vow to save all the beings of my own mind. And, you know, when I started that process, there were certainly beings that I wanted them to win, and the other ones to go away. And, you know, when you said that, Laurie, about, I don't know exactly what you said, but what came up for me was, with people I love, then I have to be willing to see the parts of them that I don't like, and to be with the liking and the not liking, and the people I don't Like I have to be willing to see the parts of them that are good and that I respect as well as the parts that I don't like and to not hold either side of that. So yeah, little challenges for you.

[65:05]

Morning. Anybody out there? like to express themselves. Oh, yes. Go ahead, Debra. So I wanted to read one of my poems I wrote real fast, and then I'll make a comment about the discussion. But I wrote this poem. I'm a mountain whose forests are burned black, and I am Debra who uses plastic bags that can contribute to water pollution. So I feel that the poem is so powerful because it points to just not ever separating. thinking that some part of it is better or different than someone else. In a way, I'm Donald Trump. I mean, it's just a humbling poem. I was in Cambodia, saw the killing fields. I mean, what he experienced, I also was in Vietnam, but what those people experienced, we have no concept of.

[66:09]

And I just feel it's such a powerful poem to remind us that in this world today, Throughout the world, there's so much suffering, but it's the separation from it. It's the pretending it's not real that is the danger. And I feel he points to that. So I just wanted to say that. Thank you. Yeah, it reminds me of my own experience in Zazen as thinking I could separate myself from discomfort was really the key to unlocking the torrent of suffering. Alani, did you want to say something to us? You'd have to unmute. I recall Maya Angelou saying, and it helped me when I was younger, her saying that she sees herself in the worst person that ever did the worst crime on the planet.

[67:26]

And that's what made her feel like... not separated from anything. That the worst thing you could do, she is capable of. That we are, you know, she felt that. She saw that in herself. She saw that. And I think that made me see life in a different way. I mean, there's parts of myself that I don't like when they pop up. No, for real. And some days I just said, you know, instead of making it go away, I just kind of just be with it. I said, oh, shoot. We'll stay home. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yes.

[68:32]

In the poem, is he asking us to teach him, please call me by the two days? Yeah, because I think that, I mean, that's my answer, is that, yes, he is trying to train us to sort of be here, you know, as the... Can somebody explain it as the frog is right here. That's not exactly what I meant. What I meant was, could the dialogue be him asking the other, the listener, what do you see in me? Oh. Please call me by my truth. What do you see? What do I need to learn from you by looking, by you looking at me? Okay, so wait a minute. For some reason, I'm having trouble picturing this.

[69:36]

It's a confusing question. It's all right. No, it's... Try it one more time. Yeah, let's try it. I get the sense in the dialogue of the poem that it could be read two different ways. He is asking the listener, I want you to call me by my name. That's right. And that's the way I read it one time. I also read it as, I want you to call me by my true name, the one that you see is true for me. What I don't see about myself. Oh, I see. In other words, it's okay for you to tell me that I'm the pirate. Yeah, because that's how you... That's how this... Right. By you calling me the pirate, I grow. Yes, yes. Because you grow into a mutual relationship with you. Or I see something I didn't see before.

[70:39]

Yeah, yeah. I just had a little realization that I'm here because of Thich Nhat Hanh. Oh, how wonderful. Yeah. Back when I was first learning about Buddhism and practicing and kind of exploring different traditions, I read something by him and I was like, oh, he's a Zen person. I'll check out Zen. So, you know, in a sense I can see him here. Gee, thanks for saying that because that's why I'm here too.

[71:45]

Our Unitarian minister gave a Buddhist sermon once a year and his Buddhist sermon was based on Thich Nhat Hanh. Peter?

[72:56]

Peter? I just had some thoughts arise here that might be useful for me to share. I don't know if it'll help anybody else. When we talk about other people and we call them names, we label people, or we are labeled by others, that's That's not the same as calling me by my true name, or is it? Okay, that's a good question. I'm glad you asked it. So I'm hearing the question as, what's really coming across when I say Sue? Well... Because it's you and you see completely much more than I. I feel seen, Peter.

[74:07]

But we have thoughts and opinions about everything. And each other. Well, is Thich Nhat Hanh wanting a simple response, or does he want to make it more complicated? I think I get annoyed by the fact that this is a lot deeper than I would care to go. Yeah, it is annoying. Thank you, Peter. Does anybody know what time it is? 8.30. Oh, it's 8.30. It's okay to end, too. Yeah, that's true. It's okay to end. I'm going to ask another troubling question.

[75:21]

What do you want to do next week? Not next week, but the week after. Two weeks. I guess we'll find out. It's pretty entertaining, I have to say. It's hard for me to imagine Thich Nhat Hanh dictating this entire book. It floats between the Garsha and Thich Nhat Hanh. Having trouble with short-term memory.

[76:32]

Probably lasts a few seconds. Let me just think of something. I don't know how to help you. We're getting a lot of Thich Nhat Hanh. We could go back there. Yeah. Deborah's good on that. Is there anything he's trying to say that we have not surfaced?

[77:34]

Yes, I'm sure. But again, it's one of those questions You come up against a wall and you just have to sort of stay there until the wall speaks. We can all try. Yeah. See, you can come up with something. Yeah. And we can share it with each other. Okay. Thank you very much, Peter. These are numbers. I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Time of gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. This way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it.

[78:35]

Thank you very much, Peter. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Nice to see all of you. Thank you. Class is over? I mean, yeah. Okay, I know it is. I'm tired, okay? I'm sorry. So when does this class meet? I'm sorry.

[79:08]

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