Buddha's Story, The Sad Parts

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inhabited completely good morning good morning all my dharma sisters
i'd like to start by thanking everybody for coming and helping us create this opportunity to commune with each other when you could be out
in the san and can communing with flowers and sunshine and so many other thing so thank you so much
am i have to tell you that i had a whole tuck prepared
ah and then yesterday we had them put his birthday ceremony and little talk and
you know as it started i thought oh that's i started out thinking oh that's too bad that i didn't remember what you know that i could have done so i can prepare to talk that was somehow vaguely than it related to buddha's birthday and then by the end of
allen's talk i was really regretting that i hadn't and almost feeling like i should change my talk but i felt that it was too late and
but i kept having that feeling and
yesterday i guess i went to the place that i don't know how i think that a lot of you were probably there i went to the same place katie reminded with her question which was hearing the story of the buddha's birth thinking wow this is a really sad story between the
no kind of book
maybe between the lines are not even between the lines so
the torn inside kind of like that feeling like when you have your foot on one boat and or foot on another boat in the boats are like moving away from each other and he had some point and with any even as early as this morning i was like no i'm going back to my prepared dark and then i couldn't i just couldn't settle there
i'm thinking of this is kind of like buddha's life the sad parts or coloring in the sad parts or something and i hope that
i hope that this is gonna work for people here and even people who weren't on the call i mean on the on the at the event yesterday
ah so anyway here we go
and i just have just to start i'd like us to just remember that we really don't know for sure very much at all about what actually happened
i'm back then twenty five hundred years ago and
in others there's some historical record and some theories and things but
so i i just think that that's an important thing to keep in mind like whatever story we tell where really just were making it up and
trying to feel our i've been trying to feel my way into the story from different people's perspectives from the different players perspective so
the i think that it was i understand and again people can correct me later a half if i'm wrong but that it was kind of traditional for a woman to go to her own clan or family ah when she was had a bit when she was gonna have a baby
and it seems clearly she miscalculated the timing on that and or the birth started early the the labor started earlier than they expected because she was en route
and you know they fill in all this stuff about the beautiful trees and stuff but basically she's en route to her own families clan and perhaps her mother you know to help her through this the birth and then she goes into labor and i think it seems like it must have been a very difficult labor
i am
again i don't know where you go when you hear he was born from her side and she died eight days later but what makes sense to me is that it was some kind of you know
sicilian birth of some kind and
so i think it it's a very sad to very sad story of his birth and ah
i think that of course he was mothered i'm sure he had close mothering from his his mother's sister his aunt my homepage up a tear punjab putty at that time and
and i can i can imagine he was well mothered and
you know eight days old you know it i'm sure he could imprint on her and have secure attachment in everything but also the other factor is that the his mother was the wife of his father and sister of his and so it's a set there is a sad
a grieving phase going on to me in this beginning days of his life
i just feel like maybe it just spending some time honoring these other aspects and i'm not trying to
in any way i'm not trying to detract from what he did for all of us and his gifts in everything but just you know in the interests of
feeling our way into the story and now
my impression or might a the story i'd go to is that he was a very sensitive boy and
there it was an intense seen it with me know he was gonna be the was a clear his father was a clan leader his cousin was jealous of him so there was a end he i picture him as not being enough there's as if there's some kind of gender so
vector my picture him as not being far out there on the masculinity scale you know like a sensitive
boy and man and young man and was much more you know the story as he saved the swan and his cousin shot and we have various stories of his tender hearted nymphs and
and there was a lot of pressure on him a lot of pressure on him to toe the line in this clan to
become you know mary and half she'll a child that a son that would also become that you know like to pass this thing on and
i my feeling is you know just just in the last couple days like he never wanted any of it that's where i'm going right now as he he never wanted any of that it didn't resonate for him it was full of probably little yeah no palace intrigue and jealousy and ah
status people whisked out as people without status and all of that stuff and i just think that
he was never really into it he tried to and he did everything to fulfill what they were asking him to do
and he he did get married and you know when i think of his his wife's name as yes oh dora and again if i meant to mentioned yesterday was my son's daughter's last day of her visit and i decided not to do spend a bunch of time doing research that i might have done to flesh out some of these
stories and so others have you may know more and may be able to share but when i think of yeah so dora
where i go is i i am related to and married to people who have struggled with depression so i that's what i my feeling is that he struggled with depression based on not feeling like he was where he was supposed to be and not wanting to do what he was
supposed to do and am
i could imagine
what that would feel like for him i can imagine what that would feel like for him i can imagine i can really imagine what that would it could have been like for her
i know what it's like not to be able to feel like you know you can help somebody or your love can make a difference or things along those lines
and probably his father was just hoping he would keep you know and we've seen parents do this i just hope i hope he eventually gets on board with this and i just hope he he does you know
i'm not going to retell the story of the for visions because i'm telling the story from another angle on wheel and we all know that but it's i think that he my feeling is that he was never totally bought into it and it was hard it got harder and harder to do it and am
finally he when he had accomplish this thing where he'd had a kid a child to pass on the family name and genes or whatever that was like where he drew the line and said i i really can't do this now i've done everything you want me to do and now i'm
doing what i've always wanted to do which was leave this situation this seen this family seen the scene of power struggles and in a competitive cousins who wanna kill me and all this kind of stuff and
you know i could you could see he turned to spiritual practices and you could sorta see and he tried everything is what is where i go with that he tried everything
to feel better to feel better
eventually he did find a way to feel better i'm a way to understand reality that
was was healing was healing for him
and that's the whole other story of
that we know
so then ah
and you know so i just there's a lot of family energy in his story that usually doesn't come out so his his his one of his most loyal disciples was his cousin and nanda and i think of them
as probably kind of half way maybe between a brother and cousin very close very close cousins and my kind of think of
different from how i talked about his childhood but i kind of think of the buddha as the thinking type to a nod as feeling type in a way
i am a non is very loyal very devoted and
and in a few different such as you get the feeling of him just sort of adding adding the feeling level in at different times when the buddha is sort of a little bit pedantic and laying out these lists and things you know
so eventually and then the other factor that's playing in here is that his his clan was was wiped out in a war or
i don't know if it wasn't that everybody was i but but they lost the war than and whatever happens with that i don't know the details but
and you know there's a lot of stories and in even in the searches that show that the time was rife with struggle enter in struggle within clans and struggle between clans there's a there's a set of stories about a king and queen and then the sun kills the father and they're all in this they all come to the
buddha as a teacher you know the sun is he can't get over his guilt for killing his father and he comes to the buddha so there's a sense of leno
strife and struggle and ah
the difficulties of of for
the sache keeping the social status keeping the clan togethers having the clan surviving and gained territory from another clan and so there was a lot of it was kind of shakespearean is the way i think about it you know and the you know the
so eventually one of the thing is one of the thing that happens is
that there's a lot of widows left based on this war that happened and not only and so there's a up some some shrimps shrimp shack young widows
and also
people who were married to people who became monks and are left in that way left alone in that way and then i'm sure there are also many women who also didn't really buy into amino in every culture i think there's always some women who don't want to do that thing
they don't wanna get married have kids for whatever reason you know and so
or or they have tragedies as care as we talked about with in karen's talk they had terrible tragedies were all their children were killed or in a family members killed so so a collection of women formed around maha joppa t the buddha's what i mean i think of her as his mother
honestly mother slash aunt because from eight days old you know you raise someone from a days old i don't think you call that person and aunt but you know maybe you do
mother slash aunt
around her formed a group of these women somehow
you know they say five hundred but i think five hundred is word for a whole bunch of people in that
system so they formed around her and studied his teachings and wanted to experience this relief and this transcendence and this understanding and enlightenment and and follow his team
teaching in the way that the monks were they wanted to be nuns are monks themselves they wanted to and there will and at this point at the and again we don't really know what actually happened maybe none of this happened and maybe he let women and from the beginning but later generations as we know women get rid
run out of things so
let's just go along with a story that
and which is you know the third sad story to me a or or something third or fourth sad story
she is leading this group of women who wanted practice for whatever reason are are left high and dry or left their situations and want to
take up the holy life
and she goes to the buddha who says no and when i try to feel my way into the buddha i think oh god that just gonna complicate things no end in out like i feel like he just couldn't deal with the complications that we're gonna ensue
if women joined his order because he has all these young men and they're trying to be celibate and
just in a million different ways so i know and we know that he threw off cast and he threw off social status so we know he was capable of throwing off things but this seems to have been a bridge too far for him he just could not he could not go along way
with that idea and
she goes away and comes back and asked him again if i'm remembering the story right and you can play her on you can correct me if i'm wrong
and then i think she goes to a nanda before the third time so she asked him twice he says no and then the third time she goes to a nanda who is a close relative again right we're talking about family were talking about his mother coming
to him and him saying no to her
and then she goes and asks the nephew or some close relative of hers to intercede
because he is close to the buddha and he is a feeling type her and feels and can feel
at the deeper situation here rather than thinking oh that is just gonna make things so complicated you know that's my images like oh god that she's gonna make things so complicated
so he comes in he he there's and i think there's a couple of things he says but the one that has stuck with everybody down through history is that he says isn't it true that women are just as equally capable of attaining enlightenment as men and the buddha says yes it is and then
he says well how can you justify how can you do this how can you not let these women do it into this joined this order a create an order of nuns or whatever it is you know
and am
you know again
he encouragingly he grudgingly agrees to do it to go to support them and the way than the grudging part of it was that they made a bunch of special rules or this never happened and this was made up later so to justify the special rules right i mean let's just remember
before we take it all too seriously that we don't really know what actually happened and what the dynamic with him and his mother really was so i'm telling it one way you could tell it another way we don't know we will never know so
you know i think we can feel feelings obviously some parts of this happened and obviously everyone's life has a lot of sadness in it so there was a lot of sadness that we don't often hear about in the stories of the buddha
but eventually he did allow this to happen allowed that the nuns to am
and even before but the but i meant to say before this thing with them as he had women lay students he had in the sutras there are stories of women coming and getting teachings from him queens and various people he did relate to women and he did teach women
but he didn't have this this full ordination project with the many many rules if they were you know their practices
many many many many many lifestyle requirements and changes that they made em
so and we do have we do have a book the first buddhist women there's a couple translations and i'm not going to get into the complications of that but there are some poems for many many many of these women about their own enlightenment in in studying with my homepage ah pity
becoming teachers themselves you know and other people studying with them and so there was a very thriving living
practice among these women
which you know was the outcome of that sort of
tense and painful story you know
so those are that's those are my thoughts are about coloring in the sadness a little bits on coloring in the sad parts and
i wonder how i really wondering now how this is landing on people so and ah you know we have a we have a customer women sessions that we don't record the discussion so
i that's what we that's what character