I am the one who takes the truth. This morning I'm going to talk about case number 41 in the Blue Cliff Record, called Joshu and the Great Death. So Master Ngo introduces the subject, and he says, when right and wrong are intermingled,

[01:03]

Even the holy ones cannot distinguish between them. When positive and negative are interwoven, even the Buddha fails to discern one from the other. The most distinguished person of transcendent experience cannot avoid showing ability as a great master. Walking the ridge of an iceberg, treading the edge of a sword, That person is like the Kirin's horn, like the lotus flower in the fire. Meeting a person of transcendent experience, one identifies with that person as an equal. Who is this, anyway? And then he says, see the following, which is the main subject. So the main subject of this case Joshu asked Tosu, how is it when one who has died to great death comes back to life again?

[02:13]

Tosu said, you should not go by night. Wait for the light of day to come. That's the case. And then Setcho has a verse, and he says, Open-eyed, he was all the more as if dead. What use to test the master with something taboo? Even the Buddha has said he had not reached there. Who knows when to throw ashes into another's eyes?" So I will explain some of these things and leave some of them unexplained. So, getting back to the introduction, Engo says, when right and wrong are intermingled, even the holy ones cannot distinguish between them.

[03:21]

And when positive and negative are interwoven, even the Buddha fails to discern one from the other. Right and wrong, positive and negative, these are polarities. These are the dualistic positions of everything in our life. Right and wrong, good and bad, positive and negative, when they're mixed up, even the Buddha can't sort them out. This is to say that even the Holy Ones cannot distinguish between them is a kind of compliment, actually. Sounds like a shortcoming.

[04:27]

But to see how things really are means to not distinguish between right and wrong, and good and bad. When you see things with a single eye, it means not distinguishing good and bad, even though we say this is good and this is bad, this is right and this is wrong. But these are all relative judgments. Sometimes, things change. We can't always say, this is right, or this is wrong, or this is good, or this is bad.

[05:36]

or this is negative and this is positive. Everything is totally interwoven with everything. Basically, here, because he's talking about birth and death, he's saying, yes, it looks like we're alive, but actually, from another point of view, we're dead. And from another point of view, it looks like we're dead, but we're actually life itself. So, there's the illusion of birth and death within the processes of life itself. So this is the great matter to be dealt with in our practice, in our life.

[06:47]

Within life there are two sides, birth and death. Within death there is life and within life there is death. So we see them on various levels. I was born at such and such a time, and then I died. That's one level. But within that birth, there's also death. And within that death, there's also birth. It's a heretical view in Buddhism to think that everything just stops, or everything just starts. That out of nothing comes, or for no reason, things appear.

[07:57]

And after they fail to appear, that there is nothing. That's a heretical view. But we tend to think that way because we think of ourself as a personality. Our feelings, our form, our perceptions, our mental activity and our consciousness identify us as a living being. But actually, life itself is bigger than our identification of a personality. So, big mind is the mind which sees the reality or allows for the reality of life itself.

[09:00]

Small mind is the one that identifies with our personality. So we say, when there's my personality, disintegrates, then what? Then I'm dead. But life itself is bigger than this personality, fortunately. It's something to be looked forward to, even though it's very scary. Everyone makes this passage. There must be something to it, or maybe there's nothing to it.

[10:05]

When right and wrong are intermingled, even the holy ones cannot distinguish between them. When positive and negative, that's active and passive, or birth and death, are interwoven, even the Buddha fails to discern one from the other. The most distinguished person of transcendent experience cannot avoid showing ability as a great master. In other words, You can recognize someone who has the ability to walk the line between birth and death without falling into one or the other. Walking the ridge of an iceberg, treading the edge of a sword, that means not falling,

[11:12]

to one side or the other. That person is like Ciaran's horn. Ciaran is a mythical beast who has a horn and is very hard to catch. Like a unicorn, actually. and very difficult to catch. Also, like the lotus flower in the fire, which, I don't know if this is true or not, but they say that when a lotus is in the fire, that instead of burning, that the lotus gives off a wonderful glowing light. This is sort of like an example of someone who, in the midst of difficulty of the world, gets beyond suffering.

[12:25]

So meeting a person of transcendent experience, one identifies with that one. What he's talking about here, I think, is Joshu and Tosu. When one meets the other, they see eye to eye. So, who are these people? What's going on here? Tosu was a disciple of... He belonged to the northern school of Zen, and Joshu belonged to the Southern school, I think. But they were both very well-known Zen masters. At this time, Joshu was 103, and Tosu was 62. So Tosu was just a kid. And Joshu had already been around for a long time. He was 103. Joshu apparently

[13:31]

When he was 80, he started out on his pilgrimage. So Joshua, probably the most well-known Zen master. So the main subject. Joshu asked Tosu. Joshu went on his pilgrimage, actually, and he ran into Tosu. He visited Tosu, who was at the same time very well known. And so he asked this question to him. He said, how is it when one who has died the great death comes back to life again? He's not talking about reincarnation. Although this is a kind of, you know, rebirth, reincarnation is a theoretical, controversial and major subject in Buddhism.

[14:59]

Tibetan Buddhists believe in reincarnation. A lot of Indian Buddhists believe in reincarnation, although they don't exist anymore. Rebirth is a more viable way to speak about how things continue and transform in the realm of transformation. So this question, how is it when the one who has died a great death comes back to life again? The question here, the dying great death, Dogen used the term dropping body and mind.

[16:21]

When Dogen went to visit, went to China to seek his fortune, to look for a good Zen master. He ran into his teacher, Ru Jing. And Ru Jing was a very gentle person, but in the morning he would go around in the Zen Do sometimes and wake up the sleeping monks using his slipper. and hitting him on the head with his slipper or on the back, you know. Wake up! And one day, Dogen, the monk sitting next to Dogen, was nodding off. Actually, he must have been really asleep. And so, Ruijin came up behind him and shouted,

[17:28]

Maybe he hit him, I don't know. But he said, Zazen is the practice of body and mind dropping off. What are you doing? Wasting your time sleeping. And this woke up Dogen. Dogen had a great experience of insight. Body and mind dropping off, which was confirmed by his teacher. So this was the beginning of Dogen's understanding, true understanding. Body-mind dropping off is this great death. It means, while still alive, to die. This is death of the ego.

[18:30]

death of the illusion of a substantial person. This is dying and coming back to life. Dying in order to come back to life. Letting go of everything in order to actually totally live. This is actually the purpose of practice. When we sit in zazen, we let go of everything, or we should let go of everything. Zazen is the practice of body-mind dropping off. It's not some mysterious thing. It is mysterious, but it's not something that is out of your reach.

[19:34]

Body-mind dropping off means to let go of all of your conditioned responses. Sometimes, after Sachine, after sitting five days or seven days, the person will go out into the world and they won't know, they will have lost some kind of conditioning and have to think about everything they do. Have to really start to come from, instead of coming from just a conditioned response to things, to actually respond in a deeper way, which they're not used to doing. And so they feel like they're a little bit lost. They feel a little bit lost because the usual responses don't work.

[20:47]

They're not there. This is also called beginner's mind, the mind without preconceptions, the mind which is aware that this particular moment's activity has never occurred before. This is the very first time that this moment's activity has occurred. No sense of repetition or acting in a mechanical way or responding in a way that you think you know something.

[21:48]

You actually don't know anything. This is totally cleaning the house. Our house is really loaded with furniture. Lots of furniture. And when the house is cleaned, there's no furniture. It's just like, there's an expression, the cool breeze blows through the empty hall. by cleaning the mind and realizing that body and mind are not two different things. When someone has Kensho, realization, Kensho is this empty, emptying out a realization of our true nature through emptying out.

[23:20]

And in a sense it's called dying. dying at great depth, like totally letting go and landing on your feet. So this is good and bad intermingled. It's bad to die. But on the other hand, it's really good to die. Is it good or bad? I can't figure it out. So we don't want to do this. If you ask anybody, I don't want to die. And it's bad. But everybody has to die.

[24:26]

Is that bad or good? If you die, there's an old saying, if you die now while still alive, thoroughly, then you can enjoy your life no matter what happens to you. There's nothing more to be troubled by, or to really worry about. So when one experiences this great death while still alive, then you have nothing to do. This is called the person who has nothing to do and yet whatever you do is wonderful. You can do anything and it's wonderful because

[25:33]

You don't take life for granted. We really take our life for granted and we expect a lot. We really expect a lot out of life. The more you expect out of life, the more you'll be disappointed. Then you'd be able to totally give yourself to life. If we sit back waiting for life to come, But when we can totally give ourself without anything held back from moment to moment, this is called coming back to life. Life creates me and I create life. By totally giving up everything,

[26:35]

moment by moment, letting go of everything moment by moment. People say they try to make peace in the world, but it's impossible to make peace in the world. We can make peace in the world, piece by piece, little We all, people are expecting too much out of life. So, Choshu asked Dozu, how is it when one who has died a great death comes back to life again?

[27:36]

Those who said, you should not go by night, wait for the light of day. There are various ways of interpreting this, but one way is, don't sneak around. Be straightforward. Don't come undercover. Show me your activity of coming back to life as your everyday activity. Don't be profound about it. Don't stick to emptiness. How can you show me this in the most mundane circumstances of life? How can you show me the essence of life in each moment's activity?

[28:52]

How can you make sacred the slightest activity? Drinking tea. walking down the street. How can you show your perfect freedom moment to moment? You should do it in the light of day. Don't do it undercover. So it has the meaning of just proceed in an ordinary way. What is ordinary? Ordinary way is also a koan.

[30:02]

How to proceed in an ordinary way is a koan. Ordinary doesn't necessarily mean the way you usually do things. The most ordinary thing is Buddha nature, the unconditioned reality of your life. That's the most ordinary thing, but we don't recognize it. How do you bring forth that ordinary, unconditioned nature and show it? in every mundane activity. So ordinary has two meanings, the unconditioned nature of yourself and the phenomenal activity that you engage in moment by moment.

[31:17]

Are they the same or different? way to look at this statement is, I have this written down, this ghost must be tested in the daylight. All ghosts must be tested in the daylight to see if they're real. Vincenzo has his verse, and he says, open eyed, he was all the more as if dead. He's talking about Tosu.

[32:27]

Tosu, open-eyed, meaning able to see clearly, was all the more as if dead. Usually, when we're dead, we're not open-eyed, right? In this death, he was even more open-eyed. This is intermingled. Open-eyed means the great blindness. To be truly blind means to see clearly. In Zen parlance, to be totally blind means to see everything totally as it is.

[33:34]

It means not to see in the usual way. Or, if you do see in the usual way, to see reality as usual. There's an old saying, before understanding, mountains are mountains, rivers are rivers, when you come to practice, mountains are no longer mountains, rivers are no longer rivers. After you have realization, Mountains are just mountains, and rivers are just rivers. But what's the difference? Then he says, what use to test the master with something taboo? Why did Joshu have to test him with something taboo?

[34:39]

Taboo here has the meaning of something that you're not supposed to eat when you're sick. That's the meaning of the character. Something that you're not supposed to eat when you're sick. So why did Joshu test him with something taboo? It sounds like a criticism of Joshu, but he's kind of joking around. And then he says, even the Buddha said he had not reached there. He says this in order to emphasize that this is a difficult place to get to. The Buddha couldn't get there, hasn't got there yet. That's a kind of way of putting emphasis on the difficulty.

[35:44]

Then he says, who knows when to throw ashes in another's eyes. Throwing ashes in another's eyes means the teacher throws ashes in the student's eyes to blind him. So they can no longer see in the usual way. So a way of talking about putting some barrier so that the student stops looking at things in the usual way. So sometimes the term throwing gold dust in someone's eyes is to blind them. If you throw too much of a good thing at someone, that can blind them. study too much Buddhism.

[37:08]

If you study too much Buddhism and digest all of the literature of Buddhism and yet still don't have your own understanding. This is called throwing gold dust in your eyes. It's wonderful stuff. It's pure gold, but it also blinds you, can blind you to reality. I have a, I don't know where I got this, a little quote from somebody. It says, birth and death are not easy to sort out. Beneath the blanket of wintry snow, the green buds of spring are pushing their way upward.

[38:19]

That's pretty nice. Birth and death, hard to sort out. Suzuki Roshi used to talk about that. He used to have a poem like that. Beneath the wintry snow, you can see the green buds pushing up beneath the blanket of what appears to be death is totally charged with life. If you really understand this, there's nothing to worry about. Do you have a question?

[39:36]

I just want to comment on what you said last, which is, do you really understand that there's no difference between birth and death, that there's nothing to worry about? No. I said, if you realize that beneath the blanket of death, that it's charged with life, Shri Nisargadatta.

[40:46]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ