Oh, to tase the truth, to tell the truth. Good evening. So tonight we're going to talk about, where Dogen says, seeing forms with the whole body and mind. Okay?

[01:21]

Okay. Seeing forms with the whole body and mind, hearing sounds with the whole body and mind, one understands them intimately. Yet it is not like a mirror with reflections, nor like water under the moon. When one side is realized, the other side is dark. So this is a continuation from the first four sentences. I don't know if I should go back and read what I did, what we've studied, but I will. You remember the first four sentences, when all dharmas are buddhadharma, there are enlightenment and delusion, practice, birth and death, buddhas and creatures.

[02:22]

I don't like to say life and death, I say birth and death, because I want to reserve the word life for a bigger picture that includes life and death, birth and death. So if we say life and death, then there's something missing. There's no place to go. So birth is the opposite of death, not life. Something is born, something dies. But life is something that's continuous, and it doesn't have an opposite. That's my understanding. When the 10,000 dharmas are without self, there are no delusion, no enlightenment, no Buddhas, no creatures, no birth, and no death. The Buddha way transcends being and non-being.

[03:27]

Therefore, there are birth and death, delusion and enlightenment, creatures and Buddhas. Nevertheless, flowers fall with our attachment, and weeds grow up with our aversion. So this is also expressed in Sandokai. It's expressed in the Hokyo Zamai. It's expressed in the Heart Sutra. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Form is form and emptiness is emptiness. And everything is just as it is. Just this, tatata. That's the Tathagata is Buddha. Then, he said, to carry the self forward and realize the 10,000 dharmas is delusion.

[04:33]

I explained what dharmas are. our understanding of dharmas last time. And we have to really make sure that we understand the difference between dharmas with a capital D and dharmas with a small d. Dharma with a capital D means the law body, the way things actually are, reality, things as it is, Buddha's teaching. right understanding, and the dharmas are things. Everything is a dharma. But in Buddhism, that's in the large sense. In the narrow sense, it's in the specific sense, the psychophysical elements of the body-mind are the dharmas that are studied in Buddhism. as studying the self, we study the dharmas, because that's all there is.

[05:39]

What we call self is simply dharmas and skandhas, which have no own being, as it says in the Heart Sutra, no inherent existence. So what is a self? As Buddha says, Ah, just dharmas rolling along. Just dharmas rolling along. So, to carry the self forward and realize the 10,000 dharmas is delusion. And that the 10,000 dharmas advance and realize the self is enlightenment. It is Buddhas who enlighten delusion, and it is creatures who are deluded in enlightenment. Further, there are those who attain enlightenment above enlightenment, and there are those who are deluded within delusion. When Buddhas are truly Buddhas, one need not be aware of being Buddha. However, one is the realized Buddha and further advances in realizing Buddha.

[06:46]

So I'm not going to make any more comment on what we already studied, so that we can go on and study the rest. We can just spend the whole time on any one line in the Genjo Koan. So then he says, seeing forms with the whole body and mind, hearing sounds with the whole body and mind, one understands them intimately. So seeing forms, seeing forms with a whole body in mind. Hearing sounds with a whole body in mind. One understands them intimately. So this intimate, intimate means, what can be intimate? Something is intimate if it's intimate with myself. Intimacy means something that's very close to myself.

[07:49]

So when we see something or hear something with the whole body in mind, there's no gap between what is seen and what is heard. This is why practice means to practice with your whole body and mind. Suzuki Roshi, people would say, well, how do I practice when I leave the zendo? Suzuki Roshi would say, don't think about the zendo when you leave the zendo. Don't think about practicing the zendo when you leave the zendo. Just do everything totally, wholeheartedly, with the whole body and mind. Just be one with whatever you're doing. And no matter how much we stress this, people don't get it. They say, well, when I go out there, I don't know how to practice.

[08:58]

Just practice being one with whatever you meet. That's it. That's what the whole thing is about. So there's no subject or object problem. A subject is a subject, is a subject, an object is an object for the subject. A subject is a subject for the object. This is from the Xin Xin Ming. You know, we say, well, I am the subject and the things around me are objects. So I relate to everything as objects for my subject. You're your subject and I'm my subject. So everything that pertains to me is my subjectiveness. But when there's no gap between perceiver and perceived,

[10:09]

There's no subject-object division, even though there is a subject and an object. So we say no subject-object doesn't mean that there's no subject or object. It means that subject and object, although two, are one. Or not two and not one. What is it? That's a koan. What is it? So, what is the true human body? What is the true human mind? When we have realization, when we have enlightenment, at that moment we realize that the whole universe is the true body. the whole universe is the true mind, because there's no real self.

[11:18]

Everything is contributing to what we call myself. So intrinsically, there's no self, no separate self, but experientially, there is. Experientially, there's a self. Here I am, right? But intrinsically, there's no self. So intrinsically, the whole universe is myself. It can't be otherwise. There's no way it can be otherwise. Everything in the universe is contributing to the existence of what we call my experiential self. When we breathe, we're not breathing. Breathing is just happening.

[12:22]

The universe is breathing. The universe is taking a breath as expressed by this person. So each person is, each thing is a certain kind of expression of the universe. There's no self. There's nothing that belongs to anyone. Even though we say, well, this is my Koromo, this is my book. But that's just a manner of speaking. It's just, you know, convention. but nothing belongs to anybody. But we do take care of things and we have belongings and so forth in the conventional sense. But in absolute sense, in the dharmic sense, no one owns anything.

[13:28]

Everything's just passing through. Dharmas are passing through in the shape of people. So you can't get lost No way you can get lost. As long as you identify with life itself rather than just identifying with this persona. This is where we get caught, is identifying solely with the persona. And then, as it says in the Koan, when the elements start to separate, You'd be like a crab in a crab pot. What would you do then? So, there's some interesting comments on this.

[14:31]

There is one thing When the aspect of I is illuminated, we call it I. You won't find this in your commentary. When the aspect of moon is illuminated, it is called moon. When we call it I, moon disappears. When we call it moon, I disappears. You understand? There's one thing, but it's called by different names. Sometimes it's called John. Sometimes it's called Mary. Sometimes it's called a piece of wood. Sometimes it's called a tree. You can call it whatever you want, but it's still the one thing. The one thing expressed as these various entities.

[15:37]

So, seeing forms with the whole body in mind. Seeing forms with the whole body in mind. Hearing sounds with the whole body in mind. One understands them, or one intuits them, actually, intimately, as oneself. So this is called awakening. And then he says, yet it is not like a mirror with reflections, nor like water under the moon, when one side is realized, the other side is dark. Later on in Genjo Koan, Nogen does talk about the water reflected in the moon, I mean the moon reflected in the water.

[16:50]

and like the moon is reflected in a dew drop on the grass. Another way of illustrating this is when you have a bunch of dew drops, you wake up in the morning and all these dew drops are on the leaves and the grass, and each one is reflecting the moon. So moon, you know, it means truth or enlightenment or realization. The same moon is reflected in all the dew drops. Moon can also mean reality. So each dew drop is an aspect of Each dew drop contains the whole water.

[17:58]

So, there's an illustration of, if you look at, in this particular He says, it is not like a mirror with reflections, nor like water under the moon, because when subject and object are one, there's nothing reflected. There's only reflection when there's differentiation. This is like Zazen. In Zazen, because of our concentrated effort to be one with our activity, we can accept the painfulness in our legs. Because there's nothing opposing it, like I don't like it. As soon as I don't like it arises, then you have an opposition, then you have a reflection.

[19:15]

But when there's no opposition, there's no reflection and there's only the one thing. And so we experience it as it is rather than experiencing it through our partiality. That's how we can actually maintain zazen posture. Otherwise, we fall into suffering. So, this is also called by Dogen, the total exertion of one dharma. In other words, that's also called sometimes, Ichigyo Zamae, one act of samadhi.

[20:21]

Samadhi meaning, in this case, absorption or oneness with, without duality. So, And this is called the total exertion of one dharma, which when that one dharma is, or whatever it is that you're totally at one with, that covers the whole universe. That's the whole universe. Even though it just seems like a small piece. So in order to cover the whole universe, We don't have to have a blanket that's infinite. We just have to be able to be at one with exactly what we're doing. That covers the whole universe.

[21:25]

That's our universe right there. So this is Dogen's total exertion of one dharma. There's a, commentary by Dharma C.C. Chom, the total exertion of one Dharma. On the eighth day of the lunar month, half the moon is bright and the other half is dark. So in other words, the half moon, half the moon is bright and the other half is dark. The very appearance of the bright part, the disclosed, affirms but does not negate the existence of the hidden part. Because we see the light part, it affirms the hidden part, and does not negate it. Likewise, the manifestation of something always implies the existence of the unmanifested or concealed part of the same thing.

[22:37]

at the moment when the concealed part of the same thing, I'm sorry, at the moment when the bright part of the moon is disclosed, the dark part also secretly establishes itself. That's very nice. In other words, when there's a full moon, there's also, the other side of the moon is dark, and it's concealed. But the light side implies the dark side, and the dark side implies the light side. But at the moment, the light side covers the whole moon. Can I ask a question?

[23:55]

Yes. How is this different from dualism, light and dark? Is this the non-duality of dualism? The non-duality, yes. We have to understand in two ways. we have to understand in the dualistic way, and we have to understand in the non-dualistic way. So one is called the conventional truth, and the other is the absolute truth. So the conventional truth is the truth of duality. And the absolute truth is the truth of non-duality. The reality is the duality of non-duality and the non-duality of duality.

[25:03]

That's real non-duality. Which includes, non-duality includes duality. Duality includes non-duality. Otherwise, you have duality. So it's not two, not one. As soon as you fall into two, you lose the one. As soon as you fall into one, you lose the two. So that's why you can get stuck in oneness. You can't afford to let yourself get stuck in oneness, and you can't let yourself get stuck in two-ness. So when you see the full moon, you know that there's a new moon on the other side, and so they're both happening at the same time. That's right, it's one complete moon. Even though one side is revealed, the other side is dark, but it's one total moon. That's understanding.

[26:06]

Pink side or something. What kind? Pink. Pink? How do you know there's only light and dark? I mean, maybe there's pink and orange and blue. Oh, well, colors. What if? Why is it only two? Why is it only light and dark? I mean, why not a million different ones? Well, included within light and dark are a million things. Matter of fact, Everything is included. But you have to realize that colors are all reflections. They have no really intrinsic base. A color is a color because of some other color. So that last sentence, when one side is realized, the other side is dark, it sounds very dualistic, because it's saying, oh, there's this side, but there's the other side in there.

[27:24]

But the point is that when you have one, you also have the other. That's right. It's not one without the other. It's not one without the other. You can't have one without the other. So this is why in zazen, you're totally concentrated on one thing, so to speak. And that concentration covers the whole universe. It's like in a grain of sand is the whole universe. rather than trying to, you know, expand to cover everything, which is impossible, you have to realize that everything, the whole universe is contained in a grain of sand.

[28:39]

Or in our zazen. Yeah, Jerry. really not darkness. Darkness is just a metaphor for the unseen, for the unmanifested. So it's not necessarily realistic, it just means everything has many aspects. And what we can't see is in the dark. And so it's really the unmanifested aspects of whatever it is. So there's manifested and unmanifested. And the manifested is just a manifestation of the unmanifested. Right. And they trade places. Well, it's all one thing. Or in our own perceptions we see it. In our perceptions, yeah. Yes. I don't want to spend too much time on this because I want to go to the main subject, but yeah. I'm not sure how to read that last line after the dash, whether that last line describes a mirror with reflection or like water under the moon, or whether it's the opposite.

[29:54]

It's the opposite. It's not like a mirror with reflections or the water under the moon. Later he uses the illustration of a moon reflected in the water. But he's saying that that's not relevant here. So that's right, without darkness there's no light, without light there's no darkness. Everything makes the opposite. Opposites all make each other. Opposites create each other. But still, when we say no gap between subject and object, it's that since opposites

[31:04]

create each other, that's subject and object. But we have to realize that the two things are really one thing. The two opposites that make each other are really one thing. And so there's no duality there, really. There's a perception of duality. So we have to be careful what we create because It creates its opposite. If we try to be good, bad comes into the world. And if we try to be bad, good comes into the world. Because good and bad create each other. This is our dilemma, worldly dilemma. It can never be solved, really, except individually. It can only be resolved through enlightenment. I don't know if it can be resolved with government.

[32:08]

So we'll take five minutes. The next part is really the heart. of Ginjo Koan, and it's about practice. So, this is a very famous, these are five famous lines. To study the Buddha way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas. To be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas is to free one's body and mind and those of others. No trace of enlightenment remains, and this traceless enlightenment is continued forever.

[33:20]

So, To study the Buddha way is to study the self. We usually think of study as studying something. But this word, narao, Japanese, has several meanings. One of them is to study, but It's more like practice or drill or doing something over and over. Not so much studying a text or studying mathematics academically, but paying attention to, or actualizing, or realizing, or... To do the self.

[34:43]

To do the... To... practice the Buddha way is to practice the self. Yeah. The phrase from the song comes to mind, ain't gonna study war no more. Yeah, that's right, yeah. Yeah, that's right. It's kind of like, ain't gonna do that, right? Yeah, kind of like, that's a good analogy. So, in other words, you have to It's, well, Dogen is turning the light inward, right? To examine the self. But it's more than just examination. You know, as Dogen has been talking, he's really been talking about how to be one with things.

[35:47]

How to, The interesting thing is, it's a kind of wonderful koan because to study the self when there is no self. But this is basic Buddhism. In basic Buddhism, you study the self in order to realize that there is no self. And this is called studying the dharmas. If you want to study, the Abhidhamma people, Buddhists, scholars, developed a system of investigating the dharmas, as I presented them to you last time, the psychophysical, constituents, like the good dharmas and the bad dharmas, the neutral dharmas and so forth.

[36:54]

And by studying those dharmas, you realize that there's no self in the dharmas. That's the study of Abhidhamma. So it's negation. and the 12-fold chain of causation is also negation. So that Buddhist study is to study the self in order to realize the non-self of the self. Yeah. It's almost like the opposite of the old Robert Burns line could we but see ourselves as others see us? It's the opposite of that. No, I don't know what's the opposite of that. I think it'd be great if we could see ourselves as others see us.

[37:56]

No, it's if we could see ourselves as we really are. Yeah, that's, I think, more like it. We can see ourselves as it is. That's, Buddhadharma is to see things as it is, it really is, not without partiality, without delusions, free of delusions, even though we have delusions. And sometimes others see us very clearly, but we don't see ourselves. But beyond that, it's just to be able to accept, to realize and accept the reality that the experience of a self is not

[39:01]

The reality of a self. The experience of a self is not the reality of a self. Yes. Yes. When we do ourselves completely. Well, that's the next line. Oh, I thought you read it. I didn't. Yeah, it's true. Well, yes, to be ourselves completely. That's right. Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah, but that's a big koan. How do you be yourself completely? We may think we're being ourself, but it may not be complete.

[40:14]

So to study the Buddha way is to study the self. In other words, turn toward. And to study the self is to forget the self. So forget also is an interesting word. Forget or let go. or not be attached. Non-attachment is implied here. To not be attached to a self. Not to be attached to some experiential idea. So to study the self is to forget the self, to shift the center from self-centeredness to Buddha-centeredness.

[41:23]

So I like to use, instead of being self-centric, to be Buddha-centric. So we settle ourselves on Buddha rather than settling ourselves on self. So Buddha is true self. Self is... Buddha is self, the understanding of true self. And self is the false understanding of self. So when we say self-centered, it's coming out of a false understanding of our self. But if we're Buddha-centered, then our actions are in accord or in harmony with

[42:32]

reality or truth. So, then he says, to forget the self is to be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas So this is like in the previous, what he was saying before, the 10,000 dharmas advance and verify the self, right? 10,000 dharmas, verifying the self means that you realize that there's simply dharmas. and on all dharmas are contributing to your realization and your existence. And then to be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas is to free one's body and mind and those of others.

[43:48]

So to free one's body and mind and those of others, what do you think that means? Well, if we don't have a perception of our own self that is limited then we're not going to have a perception of others that's limited. And that makes for more freedom. That's right. So this also can be translated as dropping body and mind of self and others.

[45:05]

You know, it's very interesting when one is mature and one has dropped body and mind and one is verified by the 10,000 dharmas and frees oneself. then one understands where everyone is and understands why people are the way, certain people are the way they are, why people act in a certain way, and one has more sympathy and understanding rather than just reacting to circumstances. So one gets a bigger picture. Like Buddha had a big picture of people. He didn't act in petty or retaliatory ways. He never tried to hurt people and he always tried to help people.

[46:20]

and he never stood on his ego as being righteous. And then, no trace of enlightenment remains, and this traceless enlightenment is continued forever. You know, we should not get stuck in enlightenment because enlightenment is the opposite of delusion. So there's a plane beyond the opposites of enlightenment and delusion. Enlightenment is coming from non-duality side. Delusion is coming from the duality side. So there has to be enlightenment above enlightenment, which is to let go of enlightenment, the duality of enlightenment and delusion.

[47:29]

And that is the traceless enlightenment, where delusion is okay, enlightenment is okay. This... I don't know how many of you remember Tozan's Five Ranks. This seems to be a—although Dogen criticized the way people, after Tozan, commented on the Five Ranks, on Tozan's Five Ranks. This is, seems to be Dogen's commentary on the Five Ranks. But in the sense of as a pattern of, a progressive pattern of practice, like stages of practice.

[48:41]

So the first stage to study the Buddha way is to study the self is like called shift. or moving into from a karmic life into a life of a way-seeking mind or practice mind. So leaving behind karmic activity and turning toward Buddha activity. And then to study the self is to forget the self. And it's called submission. To actually submit yourself to practice. To actually put yourself into the stream of practice. A kind of renunciation. And then to forget the self,

[49:43]

to be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas is called achievement. To actually achieve some foothold in practice. And then to be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas is to free one's body and mind and those of others is called collective achievement, which means you or myself together with all beings. Not just my own practice, but my own practice as shared by, shared with and by everyone. That's collective achievement. That has to be a step of true selflessness, to give yourself over to everyone, to let go of your own ambitions and share yourself with everyone and work for the benefit of all beings.

[51:03]

And to free one's body and mind, oh I'm sorry, and then no trace of enlightenment remains, and this traceless enlightenment is continued forever, is called integration of achievement. So this is the total integration in which there's no Zen, there's no Buddhism, there's no, There's no trying to do anything. It's just because your sentient being and your Buddha nature are totally integrated. Everything you do is Buddha's activity. So no trace of enlightenment remains means everything is forgotten. You don't care about enlightenment or delusion, but whatever you do is an enlightened act.

[52:16]

None of us are there yet, so don't worry. So... Oh yes, when we're working for the benefit of all beings, you know, we have... Shikantaza, and Shikantaza is another name for jijuyu zamai, self-fulfilling samadhi. But tajuyu zamai, samadhi, is our, once we have

[53:21]

established our own samadhi, our self-fulfilling samadhi, then we turn, we use that for the benefit of all beings. So that's practicing for the sake of others. There's a very interesting definition of samadhi by Kodo Sawaki Roshi, who was the main, probably the most, the most prominent, well-known Soto Zen teacher in Japan, who died in 1964, about the year I came to Zazen.

[54:27]

And he says, Samadhi is to work constantly for all beings at every moment, living as the whole universe. We have all these esoteric definitions of Samadhi, but he brings it down to this very simple understanding. He says, Samadhi is to work constantly for all beings at every moment, living as the whole universe. It's very understandable. If that's your life's work, then and you don't deviate from that for a moment, then that's your samadhi, that's your concentration. And because there's no self in it, it's simply Buddha's practice, which is samadhi.

[55:28]

Not some special feeling, but you feel it. You can recognize it. It's not something exotic. It's simply your feeling of wholeness and selflessness. So the only way to have a feeling of wholeness is through selflessness because through selflessness you allow the whole universe to be yourself. So that's ultimately what Dogen is talking about. That's what Buddha's talking about. When we let go of our false sense of self, then the whole universe becomes our true self. This is called stepping off the 100-foot pole or the one-foot pole. That's really interesting.

[56:51]

If we stick to enlightenment, it's called Zen sickness. There's a koan about that. Somebody said, it's not that there is not any longer enlightenment, but there are no traces. A cloudless blue sky still needs to be hit with a stick. Do you understand that? A cloudless blue sky still needs to be hit with a stick. No. A cloudless blue sky is like clear mind of enlightenment. Wet. So we have to let go of our cloudless blue sky and fall into the bushes, get into the mud, swim around with people.

[58:16]

Can't stay there. Do you have any questions? Do you understand? I have a question. Oh, good. You know, we go through all this stuff, and it seems to me is that, for example, this thing we just read, the study of the self, these five things, I don't ever hear us talk about how we do these five things over and over. And in my case, I do them over and over and over. It's just that I don't ever reach. Don't ever what? I don't ever reach one place. I just, it's a constant, and the only difference is the bar maybe is raised a little bit than it was two or three years ago.

[59:21]

But I don't think that, are there any of these readings or writings, do they talk about how we just do this over and over and over? Each of these five things, we just... What do you do when you come to Zazen? I do them over and over and over. I sit there and think about what I... No, no, I mean, what do you do every day? You come to Zazen over and over and over, right? So what are you complaining about? Well, because I don't hear us talk about doing these things over and over and over. I keep getting this idea and the way And I don't hear a lot of talk about how you go back to this first thing. Well, I go back to this first thing every day, every minute, every second. Oh yeah, you've got to pay attention to yourself. Well, if you do it, why do we have to talk about it?

[60:24]

Well, don't have one. Paul. On this sentence, yet it's not like a mirror with reflections and are like water under the moon. I think I remember you saying that what that's saying is that there's no subject-object separation. Yeah, there's nothing to reflect from. There's no gap. You need a gap in order to have a reflection. So he's talking about... Then I have a question, here's my question, and it has to do with when that came up, I thought of the jeweled near samadhi. You used the mirror metaphor Mm-hmm.

[61:48]

So this is, so I gotta just, I just need, this is talking, using the mirror in a very different way. Yeah, I'm talking about, when he's talking about, it's not like that. It's not like. He says, I'm not talking about that. He says, I'm not talking about that. That's not what I'm talking about. but it is a samadhi. Yeah, but he says, I'm not talking about reflections. Yeah, it's not clear to me why he makes that, why he's so explicit and wants to make that point so clearly that he's not talking about. Because he's not talking about separation. In order to have something reflected in the mirror, even if it's reflected just as it is, you have to have space. that poem is about?

[62:54]

The Juhamir Samadhi is a term for a whole body of things. It's not, when the laya vijnana, is transformed, it's called the mirror wisdom. It's where you see everything just as it is without partiality. So in that case. But that's not the same, that's a different thing. Okay, just don't think about it. Yeah, just don't. We try to put everything together, but you know, we use the same terms and the same similes, but in different ways.

[64:02]

So he's saying it's not like that. He's telling you that. He's saying it's not like dual mirror samadhi. It's not like reflections. That's just what he's saying. It's clear. It's not like reflection. It is not like a mirror with reflections, nor like water under the moon. When one side is realized, the other side is dark. Okay. I don't want to belabor it. That sounds like a reflection to me. Well, he's saying when one side is light, the other side is dark. So we're talking about two sides of something. I know it's hard, it's a little bit difficult to grasp it because it's hard to grasp without a commentary. Did you read the commentary at all?

[65:09]

Well, Paul, it didn't do your homework. I gave you this thing so you could read it before the class. I don't want you to come without reading it next time. Anyway, a lot of hands up there in the back. Three hands in the back, you have to fight it out. Okay. Okay. I have a really dualistic confusion, and it keeps coming up. And in this case, the business about to be enlightened by the 10,000 dharmas is to free one's body and mind. Well, my perceptions being changed can automatically free someone else.

[66:24]

Yes. Well, you realize that everyone is already free. In principle. Well, it depends on what you mean by freedom. You realize that everyone, yes, you realize everyone is suffering, that's true, but you also realize that everyone is free of self. You realize that others have no self, even though they have suffering. Even though there's no self, there's still suffering. Just something suffers. You realize that there's a lot of suffering, there's a lot of joy, there's a lot of everything.

[67:27]

So this is a wonderful koan. To answer all these questions, all of these, it looks like we can talk about all this, but basically, we're talking around it. And to try to figure out logically everything that he's saying destroys what he's saying. Because we want it to fit into our logic. and dug in doesn't fit into our logic. And when we try to fit it into our logic, we kind of ruin it. So we comment on it and talk about it, we're really talking around it so you get some feeling for it, but really each one of these sentences are kind of koan. And so this is something that we just let it sit with us.

[68:37]

And like, what did that mean? Just let that be there without trying to answer it. Not to say, oh, I'm stupid, or I'm dumb, or my fault. Forget that. You just take it in and hold it. It has nothing to do with you. It doesn't have anything to do with you're smart or stupid or you're false. It had nothing to do with that. You just take it and hold it. It's like, okay, I'll just let this work itself with me and see how it opens up or how it opens me up. That's the koan. You just hold it and let it open you up, hopefully. Even if it doesn't, it gives your mind some wonderful thing to concentrate on rather than some other things that you could be concentrating on. So leave some of these questions as questions for yourself.

[69:47]

the more you try to answer it all logically, according to your, you know, wanting to understand it. You can, it's possible, but there are things that are, that seem strange, you know, and I think that although this seems simple, it's not. Each one of these sentences are fraught with meaning. not so simply, they don't so simply fit into our habitual way of thinking about things. But yet, they drop in, there's a place that they fit, and then I hear it again and it fits again, so it might not be part of my habitual thinking, However, there's a little empty place in my mind that this little information just drops into and does fit perfectly and makes sense in that moment.

[71:01]

That's right. Yes. That's right. Correct. Oh yeah, there's some other hands back there. Well, I was just wondering about the 10,000 dharmas, that's just a traditionally large number. That just means everything. Right. It means everything. Simply the Indian way of exaggeration to make a point. Well, they had bronze mirrors. They were mirrors.

[72:04]

They also had glass. Glass mirrors. Water. Yeah. Have you heard of Roman glass? Glass is very old. Well, they had glass mirrors, I don't know, but they had bronze mirrors, they had mirrors. I remember when I was a kid, I would go to the museum and here was this bronze mirror, you know, it was all kind of dark. What do they mean mirror? What's this mirror business? I could never understand why they called it a mirror. Of course, it had to be polished. So there is a continuity from what Dogen is saying. One thing leads into the next.

[73:11]

So the first part, he's talking about reality from four different points of view. And then he's talking about how we meet even with delusion or enlightenment. And then he talks about how to actualize reality through engagement, being one with things, being one with our activity. Then he talks about the outline of practice, in order to study the Buddha way is to study the self. So to study the self is to forget the self, to let go of the self. And that's the practice. Those two lines really are the basis of practice. To study the way is to study the self.

[74:14]

To practice the way is to practice the self. And to practice the self is to let go of the self, to drop body and mind. while retaining body and mind. These are all, you know, not literally drop something. People think literally sometimes. Drop our attachment. Drop our false understanding. Drop our partiality. of the biblical image that keeps coming up with what you're saying tonight. In the King James version, it reads, to see it through a glass darkly. In the revised version, it's to look through a dirty mirror. The revised version is? To look through a dirty mirror. Oh, to look through a dirty mirror. I like the King James better. Oh yeah, the old one better. And I don't know if it relates or not, but the image keeps coming up.

[75:21]

Well, we say the hazy moon of enlightenment. We have that term, the hazy moon of enlightenment. Which, you know, it's like clouds and the moon. Clouds cloud out the moon, and then you see the moon through the clouds, and then sometimes you just see the moon. And then you see, and then the clouds cover the moon again. So this is kind of the way it is. We have glimpses of enlightenment. So delusion comes. Delusion is like the clouds. The clouds cover the moon. But even though the clouds cover the moon, the moon is still there. And that's just like what he's saying. When one side is revealed, the other side is in the dark. so to speak. So when the moon is there, you don't see the clouds, but the clouds are implied.

[76:27]

And then when the clouds cover the moon, you just see the clouds, and everything is clouds, so the whole universe is clouds. And the moon is understood to still be there. but it's not, but it's hidden by the clouds. So sometimes it's delusion and sometimes it's enlightenment and sometimes it's thinly veiled so that it's various degrees of delusion and enlightenment. But whatever it is is what it is. So we don't try to stick to the moon without the clouds. Because we know that as long as the moon is there, there will also be clouds. There's no such thing as a cloudless sky forever. Or that something's always gonna be the way it is. But we know that through practice, enlightenment is always there as well as clouds.

[77:39]

that enlightenment is always there as well as delusion, and delusion is there as well as enlightenment. And within the clouds is the moon, and within the moon is the clouds. Okay, you haven't, did you say something yet? What? Did you say anything? I want to get first timers. Have you said anything yet? Have I said anything yet? I only said, I did say that. But I'm willing to wait. No, no, I'm asking you to say something. So these five sentences, you know, Dean was saying I come in and I just do it over and over and over and over again. I just keep doing it over and over again. It's not really, doesn't seem to be about reaching something. Is that what you said? Very much. And I was thinking that the first line to study the Buddha way is to study the self.

[78:49]

That's the realm of effort. Yeah. That's the realm of turning toward. When we make an effort to study the self, that is to be conscious of the self. Yeah. That seems like what Dean is talking about, you know, just keep doing it and keep doing it and keep doing it and keep making that effort. Now, I was thinking this, but while you were talking about moon and clouds just now, I was sort of changing it. So, there might be a moment when we're studying the self, when whatever that he's talking about, when he says it's to forget the self, when that might happen for a second.

[79:32]

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