Well, we want to think that meditation will keep you happy and healthy and you'll never have any problems. We want to think that. Like if somebody's doing meditation all the time, how come they got sick? If you're a Zen master, how come you have a cold? That's not it, actually. There are various reasons why Suzuki Hiroshi got cancer, but we don't know what those reasons are. We can have some idea. Mozart died when he was 35. My mother always said, the good always die young. Who knows why, you know? I think that Zazen really integrated Suzuki Roshi, but it didn't save him from dying.

[01:05]

He was 67 when he died. That's not too young. Katagiri Roshi was a little younger when he died. But, you know, even though you do Zazen and you have this certain kind of lifestyle, Sometimes, you know, you still have a problem. So everyone has a problem. I have a problem. You all have problems. And we all sit Zazen, right? But that's why we're careful to not equate Zazen with getting rid of your problems or with curing your problems. Zazen is more about how you really see reality and accept reality. And Suzuki Roshi's dying was more important or more revealing, more of a lesson than the reasons why he died.

[02:19]

I'm interested in your miraculous recovery from some of your chronic illnesses and I'm wondering about the body-mind connection there. I'm thinking about lots of people that I know who have chronic pain from arthritis or other conditions. they may do their exercises, but the framing of their mind is so strongly against the belief or in reaction to the pain that the recovery is not so miraculous as yours. So I'm wondering if you could say some words about your own experience of that for yourself and how to be encouraged about it. Right. I think optimism is a big factor. Optimism, you know, I've always felt all my life that optimistic. I don't know how else to put that word, to put it, but if I ever had a physical problem, I just kept going. And I just trusted that my body would take care of itself.

[03:30]

I just have this total trust that my body would take care of itself. I've had problems, all the problems that people have in Zazen, I've had. But I've never let them dominate me. I've never let any problems, physical problems, dominate me. So it's just a kind of... I trust that working with the problem, that I will get beyond the problem. And so I never stopped doing Zazen because I had a problem, or stopped doing whatever I was doing. And problems always, I would leave them behind somehow. I don't recommend that for everybody, but that's just my way of doing it. And when I see people having problems in Zazen, I say, well, I can't do this anymore because, and I think, well, you could do it if you really trusted your body.

[04:37]

But I mean, it has to be total trust. there can't be the slightest bit of mistrust because that will stop. That will cause a problem. That'd be total trust. And so I've always had this total trust. And so that kind of optimism, I think, has always gotten me through any kind of problems that I've had. And I've also said, you know, like, I don't care if this kills me, I'm going to do it. And so far it hasn't killed me. But it will. But that's okay. Something's got to kill you. It might be the thing that you're doing. Jerry? It has occurred to me that one of the things that's discouraging for people is constantly thinking about the future. rather than, if you do it moment to moment, and I thought maybe you could comment on that, it's not thinking about, I'll never eat an ice cream cone again, I can't possibly do it, or I'm never gonna get, I'm not gonna go from here to where someone else is who looks so much thinner or so much stronger.

[05:58]

Absolutely. I'm gonna put my foot in front, one foot in front of the other. Absolutely, yeah, it's like, And that's the way that I've always dealt with whatever problems I've had, just how do I deal with this right now, not what's going to happen in the future, how I'm going to be, or I'll never be able to walk again. If you think that way, it's like Suzuki Roshi talking about the railroad track, you just stay on the train if you think about how long the railroad track is. Just stay with where it is and deal with where it is. And Zazen teaches us all these things, you know. It really is just one breath at a time. There's no future. There really is no future. It's just an idea. I mean, everything can just stop right now. And as a matter of fact, it does stop right now. But then there's this moment.

[07:00]

So it's just this moment replacing this moment, rather than some future that we're meeting. But we call it the future because we expect something to happen next, or down the line. But strictly speaking, there's no future. So if we just stay with where we are, stay with what we are doing, then we tend to get through everything. The reason I'm saying that is I recently saw a Michael Morse movie, Falling for Calm. And a lot of his thesis there is why there's so much violence in America. The media whips that up. But I think the reason we're so susceptible to it as a society is because we're sedentary and focused in the mind.

[08:07]

It's easy to manipulate us, but we're more grounded in the body. Well, you know, a corporation will pay $100,000 for a one minute or a few minutes of advertising on TV. But if you look at all the programs, it's advertising day in and day out for violence without anybody, you know, and you're paying for it. It's like, free, you know? Many people say, well, that has no influence. You know, the psychologists say, well, that has no influence on the psyche of American children. Of course not. You know, it's just play, right? We're just playing it at violence. But it's hour after hour of free advertising for violence, day in and day out.

[09:13]

And it starts at the top. When there's a society that's not advocating, where the people at the top are not advocating violence, then we don't have it in the society. It just comes from the top. It's like, if you want to get something, kill them. If you don't like them, kill them. It's not just play. Look at Oakland. 101 murders this year, and it's not over. I just have a practical question. I've always enjoyed exercise. When I do sashimi, though, I feel like I have to leave the gate in order to get my quota of exercise in. So I go for walks during my break. And I'm just wondering about integrating the ideas of exercise

[10:19]

stretching or something within the sashimis? Well, we do stretching during sashim. We didn't used to. And I didn't think it was like it. But then when I started doing stretching, I realized it's a good idea. So, yeah, I think the stretching is good during sashim. Also, you have to go take your own walk. That's OK. That's OK. During break, take your own walk. Yeah. We did have a one-day... One-day... Sashim... David Weinberg? Yeah. He really incorporated, in just the one day, incorporated yoga or stretching and... in such a nice way. It was this one-day sitting day.

[11:25]

It was sort of advertised as a one-day sitting for the decrepit, you know. And actually, that may be true, but actually, it was a really helpful format that made the whole day. Actually, there were a lot of sitting periods and walking periods, and it was a really full day. But it so integrated the whole day and made everything, it seems to me, part of a whole body, mind, spirit. It thought separated and it made it possible for people to sit up all day that wouldn't be able to or wouldn't even consider it otherwise because this is so necessary consideration for the body that it's

[12:34]

Yeah, that's good. Thank you. Thank you, David. So, let me think about that. Next year we're having four of those. Yeah, next year we're having four of those. Andrea. Well, I don't know how long ago it was now, but a doctor said, you shouldn't sit upright anymore. To you. To you. Yeah, and I was really disappointed, and I could have stopped sitting, but the cry was really strong, so I was just kind of crushed by this confusion of how can I not sit? How can I do this? And somehow you just encouraged me to keep going, even though you didn't say that. You just said, well, you could do that. You could just stop. But you forgot saying stop.

[13:43]

You were saying in some way that I can't describe, keep going, even though so many people are saying you have to stop doing this. And I actually did take, I took about two years where I spent a lot of time horizontal. and rested a lot. Rest was really helpful in taking care of that situation, but I'm so glad I didn't stop, and now I'm so grateful to be able to sit, even though I have to be careful still. My attitude has changed, because it was almost this place where I couldn't sit, so that was the next step. I remember that. I feel so happy that I can come here and sit down. I mean, every time I do, I just feel so grateful that I can sit down and do this practice. I mean, I guess I could still lay down or something. Well, we can always find a way. As my old mother used to say, where there's a will, there's a way. She used to say things like that to me, and I never paid attention.

[14:45]

like the amount of suffering of people dying of people being hungry I mean it just seems even like maybe it's me partly but I mean I love I love all of the things too you know but I know I can't turn my back about the number of people dying. But I don't know, you know, it's sort of overwhelming, too, at the same time. So we each do what we can, what, you know, whether... Yes? Well, what I see happening a lot these days is a sort of passivity on the part of of more and more people. It just sort of, oh, you know, everything is awful.

[16:00]

The Republicans won, this, that, and the other thing. I remember a time when people thought they could change things. And I remember when I went away to college in 1960, people were full of hope. People believed that it was possible. People were motivated to go into public service, people believed that things could change. All through the 60s, people continued to believe that. Now, some things didn't turn out. There were excesses. Things didn't turn out the way everybody at the time thought it was going to turn out. But it doesn't mean that things can't be changed. And I think it's easy to fall into pessimism and despair and feel overwhelmed. But what I learned myself over those, what is it now, four plus decades, I became very mistrustful of big movements and people who said they had the formula for changing the world.

[17:13]

But I became more and more convinced that there is a tremendous amount that needs to be done starting on a small scale. And I feel as though the generation I belong to and the generation immediately after it, the boomers, have kind of turned their backs on the children of today. There are kids struggling to survive in Berkeley and all our communities, and they aren't getting the support that I think we got, or at least I got, when I was young. I think we really need to try to rekindle that sense of hope, but in a different way, and look at our lives and see what we can do, particularly to see that the new generations that keep coming up, I mean, every lesson has to be learned over and over. You don't learn it once and then mankind understands.

[18:14]

transmitted over and over to each new generation, and kids don't raise themselves. And I mean, I really think that that's where peace, Thich Nhat Hanh was right. Peace begins at home, and peace has to be taught, it has to be learned. I've always found that involvement is the best cure for despair. I say this over and over, but There's plenty to do. You know, it helps me the same way that hearing the bird there and seeing the red berries up there when I get down from the tan.

[19:37]

And one of the things that helps me And I guess that's why I think of miracles as something positive, not something that... Just think about hearing Alex running around and living so intensely outside, up the stairs, down the street. And so I think maybe it's easier for me than it is for some people to just love so much of what's happening, parts of things, and that's because I have all these children and grandchildren and they're so alive and so involved and some of them are so wonderfully radical.

[20:55]

who are just fighting every step of the way, whether they're going out. I mean, one of them, all day yesterday, well, afternoon yesterday, I guess, and evening, she was... I'm trying to think of the right word. I've lost the right wording. She was listening to people who have been suffering from rape and violence, and she spent most of her day, she's 22, answering the phones and talking to people and reassuring them and finding ways that some of them are getting practical help, where they can stay now.

[22:14]

And some of the people called from the East Coast to talk to her. And I don't know, maybe it's a little thing, but it isn't little, is it? It isn't little at all. And I must say that I won't get involved.

[23:15]

Last night I went to the veterans building and helped serve. And it seemed like a small thing, but those men were so appreciative of us being there. It didn't even matter what we said. We gave them a free meal, and we sat down and talked with them. Those are miracles. I think change happens in small ways, and we can't dismiss that. I think you said something about how important it is to attempt to create some peace around one, whether it's in one's job or at home, But I think it's important to remember there are people out there who are being very active.

[24:29]

And there are some small things that I have decided to do. And one of them is, when I can, when I'm available on Friday, I've been demonstrating with the women in black up at UC campus. The demonstration is just for an hour. It's been going on, I guess, here since 1988. But it's going on all over the world. And yesterday I learned there were two women. One is of Australian origin, I believe, and the other woman, I don't even know her name. But these two women have been in this demonstration since its beginning, since 1988. And I guess now they were recently arrested for civil disobedience. And they're just very active and dedicated. And while I was up there, I also ran into an old friend who was demonstrating for Women for Peace, some demonstration against the buying of war toys.

[25:43]

You know, I think there's small things that we can do, and I do think they make a difference. And I think that's, you know, it's just like, to me, in a way, it's sort of like sitting. Like it's one breath at a time, but it's a conscious act, and it's a practice for me to go up there. You know, I'm sure there are people who are more skilled at this than I am, but it's a practice, because who knows what's going to happen? It's a silent vigil, but nevertheless, people have all kinds of responses. So that's something that I'm doing and trying to learn from. But I think it's very important right now in this country and all over the world, it's important to speak up. You can't be silent. Yes.

[26:59]

I'm sorry, I've forgotten your name. Oh, I'm Judy. Hi, Judy. Thank you for your words, and I appreciate what other people have said, too. I'm thinking of that in many different directions at the same time, so I'm not quite sure what direction is going to come out of my mouth, but I know... I agree that these are very disturbing times, and... One of the things that occurred to me after the election results came in, and I became really terrified that Bush was going to go right into Iraq, which I think raises a terrible probability of our being hit again hard by al-Qaeda. It occurred to me, and I still can't do this, but it occurred to me that for me, oddly enough, And that helps me focus in on my own mortality, which I have, even though I know it in my mind, almost no ability to truly believe.

[28:08]

I remember the words of William Soroyan when he was dying. He sent a letter to the New York Times saying, we all have to die someday, but I have always believed an exception would be made in my case. So anyway, that's one thing. But I also think, as the week has followed after the election, and I notice what's going on in the world, a lot of things are going on that I have no control over. By the way, I gave more money than I've ever dreamed of giving in the past electoral whatever to try to keep the Senate from going to Republicans. And all of my candidates lost. Now, I don't know if they even lost, because word is coming back about fraud throughout the electoral system. So I don't know whether the system has now been so subverted that it doesn't matter anymore. I truly don't know any of that, but I certainly entertain that possibility.

[29:14]

And that leads to further kind of despair, but at the same time, just a sense that it's out of my hands. I don't have this illusion that I am in control of it. That doesn't mean I'm not going to try to do things. But it also means that it's out of my hands. Hey, and some positive things, though, from my point of view, are going on that I had no control over. I'm stunned at how Bush has inadvertently increased the stature of the United Nations. Hopefully against his will. Seriously. The allies, so to speak, are doing a good job. In many ways, they're holding lines. Anyway, not to go on and on, going on too far as it is, but I will say one of my current mantras is, and this applies to things in my work life as well as this larger scene and in my personal life, of foolish perfectionism

[30:22]

Well, when I think of progressives, of Buddhists, of everybody, just a foolish profession is to be avoided. Are you suggesting that we're getting close to the end of time? I have no idea what time it is. Well, I'm not going to tell you. Let's see if I can find it. There's something that I sort of skipped over and I have to admit that one of the things, reasons I am so drawn to the hymn of Prajnaparamita is because

[31:31]

It's a powerful woman. Just an incredibly powerful woman. And simple and good. And, you know, you can go and read it all in 8,000 lines if you have nothing else to do. But the other thing that Is there somebody who has something they would like to say now? Yes. And can you say again what time?

[33:00]

We start, we have a period as often at 7.20 and then that goes for 40 minutes. And then we have a short service rule, probably check with the medicine nurse. And then about 8 o'clock, 8.30. Yes. Hi. Rebecca, I want to just thank you for your talk this morning. The thing that's helping me about it is the way you so openly show the way you have the heart of a loving grandmother, sort of a broken heart. I agree with you that I think we're in a harder time.

[34:07]

We're kind of going into a hard time with a new war. Some kind of unending war maybe. I personally think the country's been taken over by people who don't respect our constitution at all. I've kind of tried to do that before and have done it now. And we need to stand up. My husband Stan said, well, we did live through the Reagan years. We can do it and so forth. He's got his eyes closed. I think it's hard. Besides meditating on my own death, I think one of the things that's hard to meditate on is leaving this world to our grandchildren. I think that's very hard. I just feel so lucky to have this place to come to practice here.

[35:10]

I'm so grateful to the people who keep it going, so that's something to count on. I spend a lot of time this year thinking about women, how women's voices are silenced around the world, different places, and that's a big problem. and have women in black like you to be in front of us speaking. And I was thinking about our Dharma group. We formed a Dharma group for socially engaged people interested in that, you know, and it's kind of falling apart. And I'm hoping we can get, you know, have more people join in and maybe just sit together for the next few years sit and also sometimes talk about what's happening, or what Richard said about the Wednesday night group.

[36:11]

If we can take refuge here in our sangha together, because it's a resource There's one thing I don't want to forget. I'm 70 years old, very soon to be 71, and I've been thinking about some people in our sangha who are not with us anymore. And I'd just like to keep remembering them now. And of course, our oldest friend here is Dolly Gattosi. And David Simon, who didn't see him very often here in this room.

[37:20]

But you saw him whenever anything needed fixing badly. He's just wonderful. And then Maile Scott. And her loss is really lost to so many of us. And Fran Tribe. I had stopped practicing for a while, and when I came back, it was like Fran Tribe just was there with everything to make me feel comfortable back at home. And then the last person is Susan Green. And Susan Green is one of those people, was one of those people, I guess I should say, who can drive you up the wall. and you adore at the same time. She had these great big stuffed, you know, silk jackets with all kinds of batting inside and one of those, what do you, those Velcro things that go... And she'd come in, you know, and get sitting down and all this, you know, stuff to keep her warm was going on and then

[38:45]

And, you know, I sort of thought of her for so long as this sort of not very responsible person. And then I learned more about her and her practice through a 12-step program and how She had just kept these people going, and so many people were dependent on her. She was a big, big woman, if you remember her. And she could carry two bags of cement, one on each shoulder. And I guess I've sort of gotten off a little far on this, but I sort of wanted to ask you to feel free to find some time to look at the altar, and there are more and different people on it than there were the last time I gave this talk, and not to forget them.

[39:53]

And especially, I think one of the things that is interesting to see is the thing that was done in Susan Green's name, and it's hanging in the community room. It's long, and it's a very valuable, very wonderful piece, and take a look at it. It's got a turtle on it, swimming, and it's really worth seeing. I think this is a good time to stop.

[40:35]

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