I said that I would talk about Zen, but I didn't say I would talk about enlightenment. Well, I'm very happy to be here today. Can you hear me? And Helene Knox, one of your members who attends our lectures at the Zen Center, thought it would be nice for me to come here and talk. So she invited me, and I said I would come. I thought that when she and I talked about this talk, she said that the subject, as I understood it, was what's the benefit

[01:01]

Zen practice for Zen students. I thought that was what it was. In other words, what's the good of all this? We'll settle for that. Which reminds me of a story. I assume that you know something about Zen. I don't have to tell you the history of Zen. Well, we might briefly. Briefly. OK. Well, Zen is simply Buddhism. Zen was, you know, started in India with Shakyamuni Buddha 2,500 years ago and in the, around the 2nd century Buddhism moved into China, actually the 1st century Buddhism moved into China and in around the 6th century a man named Bodhidharma came to China from India and established what we call Chan.

[02:10]

I guess I'm doing something funny here. Chan, which in Japanese is called Zen. So in India, meditation practice was called Dhyana. And then in China it was called Chana. and then in Zen it's called Zenna, so you can see the transition of the way it's pronounced. So in this subject, Bodhidharma, I thought I would say a little bit about Bodhidharma because it's significant in establishing what we mean by benefit. When Bodhidharma came to China, the Chinese had been involved in a kind of academic Buddhism. They had practices, but mostly it was study and sutra recitation and worship.

[03:26]

But they didn't have Buddhist practice. They had Buddhist practice. And Bodhidharma represented Buddha's practice, which centered around meditation, what we call in Zen, zazen, sitting in meditation. So this is what Bodhidharma introduced into China. in the 6th century. You can sit down right over here. So when Bodhidharma came to China, he was invited to the court of Emperor Wu. Whenever a famous or well-known or important monk would come to China, the emperor would invite him to court because the emperor actually felt that he was a Buddhist advocate.

[04:29]

And he had done a lot, this emperor had done a lot for Buddhism in China up to that time. And he felt that he was really promoting Buddhism by building temples and supporting the monks and so forth and building grand edifices and promoting the religion. So, when Bodhidharma came to his court, he asked Bodhidharma, he said, I've been building great temples, supported many monks, I have been spreading the religion around, you know, and really trying to build it up and promote it." And he said, what merit is there in this for me?

[05:39]

What's in this for me? Bodhidharma said, famous words, no merit. So this is a kind of koan. Koan in Buddhism is like You can't answer this yes or no. What is it? So, you know, what do we mean by merit? Bodhidharma was thinking in terms of spiritual merit and the emperor was thinking in terms of spiritual merit. by doing all these wonderful things, how will that help me in heaven? Will that really, you know, do I get points for this in heaven?"

[06:39]

Bodhidharma said, no merit. And then the emperor said, who are you anyway? And Bodhidharma said, I don't know. So these are two very important foundational facts for Zen. One is, what's the merit in all this? What good does it do you? What do you get? And, by the way, who are we? I started to practice in 1964. I came from a Jewish family, but we didn't practice Judaism. It was a remnant of a cultural practice.

[07:44]

My parents just wanted to assimilate. They didn't want to particularly have anything to do with anything spiritual or or even to do with being Jewish particularly, but being culturally Jewish, you are Jewish. You can't sneak out of that one. So I was always looking for a spiritual practice, which wasn't offered to me. They didn't count on that one. So for a long time, and I studied a little bit about Judaism, and I was actually quite I, when I was about 25, I started to investigate that. But it wasn't, although I appreciated it and liked a lot of things about it, I was already out of that house and I couldn't really get back in through the door.

[08:49]

So, because by that time I had my feeling about religion and spiritual practice was that it was universal. And Judaism was not universal enough for my understanding. So I decided to go to find something else. And I had read about Zen and Buddhism, but there was very little at that time, 1960s, early 60s, there was very little literature. Now you go to the bookstores, the bookstores are loaded, overflowing with spiritual texts. But at that time there was almost nothing. But a friend of mine, but I had read a few things, and I was very interested in, and I felt a lot of affinity

[09:50]

through my reading. And then one day a friend of mine said, you know, there is this Zen center in San Francisco and there's a Roshi there, Zen teacher, Zen master. So he took me to the Zen center and when I went in to do meditation, incidentally the Zen center was in an old Jewish synagogue. The Japanese, when they were in concentration camp, had saved their money. And when they got out, they bought this old synagogue. And it's called Sokochi. It's not used anymore. The Japanese congregation built a new Sokochi a couple blocks away. But that was a very wonderful place. So this friend of mine took me there. And when we walked in the door, it was just a room with bare floor and a row of tatami mats, grass mats, around the perimeter and with little black cushions on them.

[11:07]

And nobody said anything. And I walked in the door and we sat down on the little black cushions and faced the wall. And nobody said anything. It was very quiet. And then somebody came up behind me and very gently adjusted my posture and indicated how I should be sitting. And there I was, all alone in the universe, without any sound or any idea, any opinions, no views. And it was startling to be in this position and not moving around and nobody was moving around and I thought this is like maybe one of the few times in my life that I've been in this position to just be totally alone in the universe and at ease.

[12:11]

So I just kept coming back And I've just been coming back every day ever since. And I don't know if it's been beneficial to me or not. But I have to say that before I did that, I felt that I had a very strong spiritual bent leaning. And so when I would read, you know, or I would pray and I would, you know, have these spiritual fantasies. And so I was really good at spiritual fantasies and flights of fancy, you know, in the spiritual realms, which are quite wonderful.

[13:16]

But I didn't have any discipline So I would fall off, you know, and start smoking pot or something, which would give me more spiritual fantasies. And I knew that this is not what I was looking for. So when I started to practice, the practice itself was a discipline, very disciplined practice. I wasn't looking for Sunday school or Sunday practice. I was looking for a practice that was that could involve my whole life, day by day. So when I met my teacher and started to practice, this was a practice where you get up and where you start sitting as early as five o'clock in the morning. Every day you get up and sit at five o'clock in the morning. And I was always a night person. When I started practicing, I was driving a taxi in San Francisco, and I would get off work at four, and then I would go to Siddhartha at five, and then I'd go to sleep after that.

[14:32]

And after a while, I stopped driving the taxi, but continued doing the practice. So this was the kind of discipline that really, you know, if I could maintain this discipline, I felt that I would have a practice. And by that time, I said, I've done a lot of things and gone and investigated various paths, but I knew that this was my path. And I said, if I don't stop and do this now, I'll just keep wandering around. So I just stopped and said, this is it. And without deviating, I took on the discipline. So going from a very undisciplined, all my life had been undisciplined, to taking on this discipline of starting practice at five o'clock in the morning, every morning, every morning, and every afternoon, gave me a discipline for my life.

[15:41]

So I don't know whether that was a benefit or not, I think just being able to do the practice is the benefit enough. There are Buddhist practices where if you chant the name of the Lotus Sutra, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, and wish for things, you'll get them. You chant and then you wish for automobiles or houses or clothes. That was never of interest to me. Actually, Buddhism, instead of acquiring something, the spirit of Buddhism is how you let go of everything. Actually, non-attachment is a very fundamental aspect of Buddhism. We're born into this world, so to speak, and then we live our life, and then we leave this world.

[16:47]

And during our stay in this world, this is called the Saha world, or the world of suffering. All sentient beings are subject to suffering in this world, and this is what we're dealing with all the time. And Buddha says the cause of suffering is too much desire, too much wanting. The more we want, the more we suffer. But usually we think that if we don't have attachments, then we're deprived. This is called topsy-turvy thinking, upside-down thinking, that unless we have a lot of things to be attached to, we're deprived. But in Buddhism, The more we have, the more we suffer. And the less we have, the more free we are.

[17:52]

So freedom in Buddhism is to be free of attachments. But of course, you know, we're attached to our family, we're attached to... There are certain attachments that we should have. These are normal attachments. But when we talk about attachment, although in Buddhism For monks, attachment means attachment to family, attachment to clothes, attachment to any kind of phenomenal objects. But practically speaking for most people, too much wanting leads to craving, and craving leads to neediness, and neediness leads to suffering. So we get caught in our neediness. But when you look around, what do we really need? We just keep, in our society, we keep upping the ante for need. And we just keep upping it and upping it and upping it.

[18:55]

People nowadays, the average person has all the advantages of what a king or monarch would have 2,000 years ago. Or 500 years ago. Or 100 years ago. So we actually live like monarchs. We have that opportunity to acquire as much as we can. But according to Buddhism, it's not a true goal. It's a false goal. And I think according to Christianity, it's a false goal. Sometimes I wonder about Jesus could see how we're all living today and calling ourselves Christians.

[19:57]

Not everyone, excuse me, but for... and Buddhists as well. So, I'm getting a little off here, but So I want to come back to Bodhidharma and his no merit. So I don't know what this practice has done or what it does for people. Usually when we say, we come to, when we practice, that we don't do it for any reason. When we do meditation, meditation is not done for some special purpose outside of the fact of meditation itself. We don't do it to get strong backs or... When you sit in zazen, it's very physical.

[21:05]

We say body and mind are not two different things. Even though we talk about the body, we talk about the mind. Body and mind are not two things. And so, in meditation, the body and mind are unified with the universe. Body, mind, and breath are unified with the whole universe without thinking, without discrimination. Thinking is okay, but thinking mind is the discriminating mind. And discrimination means to compartmentalize. It means to separate one thing from another. When we discriminate, we isolate and separate one thing from another. So when discriminating mind is compartmentalizing our thinking. So our thinking becomes partial.

[22:12]

We always see things from a partial point of view and never from a whole point of view. thinking mind can encompass totality. It always has a standpoint. And from that standpoint something is always left out. So in meditation we let go of our thinking mind. Thinking mind is always working, but it doesn't play a... prominent part in meditation. The subject for the thinking mind is the posture of meditation, so that we don't think about something. Thinking about something creates a subject and an object. So in order to eliminate the dichotomy of subject and object,

[23:19]

In totality, we let go of the thinking mind, or the discriminating mind, and just let everything be as it is. That's what meditation is. So, there's nothing to gain. There's only just resuming your original state of mind. Just resume your original nature, which is... One with everything. That's what meditation is. So there's no merit. There's no gain. There's nothing to attain or acquire. It's just being with your true nature. So, then when you say, well, who am I? Am I this body? Am I this Am I the head? Am I the thoughts? Am I the breath?

[24:22]

If someone were to say, who are you, where would you point to? I think a lot of people would point here, and some people would point... This is pretty good down here, because if you point down to your solar plexus, we tend to think of our the center of our being as our thinking mind. But thinking mind has its function, but it's not the center of our being. We're very top-heavy, human beings are very top-heavy, and we tend to cultivate thinking mind at the expense of the total person. And So we're not very grounded, even though we're pretty good thinkers, we're not very grounded.

[25:25]

Grounding is the solar plexus, because that's the center of our body. That's why it's called solar. And all of the parts of our body are the satellites, are the planetary systems of that solar energy. And the thinking mind is a big planet that rotates around the solar plexus. And when it has its proper place, it functions very well and is put to use. It's an adjunct of the spiritual center. and it cooperates with the spiritual center, instead of thinking of itself as independent. And when the thinking mind thinks of itself as independent, it's called arrogance.

[26:32]

So, we approach our practice from the point of view of no merit, no gain, just doing it, just taking care of the practice for ourselves. But actually, when our practice is mature, we do it not just for ourselves but for others. People come to practice because they want something for themselves. Everyone does that. That's normal. But what brings us to practice is ego. Ego is looking for its true home. And looking for... Ego is unsettled, naturally, because it's independent. And it's looking for reality unknowingly. And so it's led... We say what leads us to practice is our true nature.

[27:44]

Buddha is seeking Buddha. Buddha nature is seeking itself. And ego is a kind of separation. It's like individualizing ourself. It's a made-up self. And this made-up self is looking for its true self. So the made-up self leads us to practice. And then it doesn't realize that if it continues, it's leading to its own destruction or leading to its own demise. So ego leads us to practice. In other words, to do something for ourself. But when our practice is mature, we realize that we don't need to do something for ourself. But what we do for others is what we do for ourselves.

[28:48]

When we help others, we're helping ourselves. When we put ourselves in the service of others, the benefit is also for us. So self-centeredness is... we trade in... turn in self-centeredness for Buddha-centeredness. I use the term self-centric and Buddha-centric. Instead of... And being centered on our ego, we become centered on Buddha, which is our true self. Buddha is not some deity in the sky, but is our true self. That's what we say about Buddha when we understand or when we realize our true self. We're no longer self-centered, but our true self is everywhere.

[29:52]

There's a saying, an old saying, that the sage has no self, but there is nothing that's not the self of the sage. So even though we don't look for some benefit, we seem to stay very healthy, and we seem to stay very clear-minded, and we seem to be able to help people. And the benefits that we have You know, in meditation, when you assume various yogic postures, there's always benefit, you know, but that's not what we look for. Those are secondary benefits which we're happy to receive, but we don't look for them.

[31:03]

So, I think that I'd like to discuss it with you if you have any questions. I always thought that the Buddha had a community message in mind, and I had the sense that he was talking about separating good and selfish desire, because he lived a life of service and community. Yeah. Could you comment on the community aspect? Yeah. Well, with the three, what we call the three treasures, one is the Buddha, and the other is Dharma, and the other is Sangha, So Buddha is your true nature, and Dharma is reality, or the teaching of truth, or your innate wisdom. And Sangha is the community. And we emphasize community, especially in America,

[32:13]

When my teacher, Suzuki Roshi, came to America, he said the really most important thing for us is sanga, or community. And, you know, Japanese culture, everything is done as community. People don't act, very little act individually. Community action is always, whatever group you belong to, you subservient yourself to the group. which is not too American. Americans are, you know, individuality reigns in America. So the two cultures are quite different in that respect. So it was interesting to study with a Japanese teacher who was giving us a practice which was developed in Japan and a culturating in some way. to that dynamic and so we have a very strong community feeling and when we meditate we always do that together because meditation looks like a solo thing you know because you're sitting by yourself so to speak and you're not communicating verbally with other people but actually it's a kind of communication which is silent and still and

[33:45]

When you do this with people, over a period of time, you have a bond or communication with people that's very different than the verbal one. Very deep bond and communication, which is subtle, but very strong and deep. So community aspect. Buddha's community aspect is very important. Well, one of the basic aspects of Buddhist practice is the well-known one of mindfulness, and what are we mindful of?

[34:47]

In meditation practice, one is mindful of all aspects of the body. Well, it's a big subject. So, body, breath, mental images, and consciousness, and feelings. This is done in a very minute way so that you really investigate what mindfulness sets up the conditions for investigation. There's also five factors called faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom. And these five factors are always working together with each other. And when one is prominent, the others are working together with that one.

[35:56]

And mindfulness is in the middle. So mindfulness is a factor in every moment of consciousness, and especially when one is producing beneficial states of mind. Mindfulness is always present. So it's what keeps you aware of what you're doing. So it's a very important factor in Buddhist practice. Yes? Enlightened attachment, right?

[36:57]

You can have whatever you want. The only thing is that you should be aware of the consequences. Everything has a consequence. There's no free lunch, so to speak. In other words, everything is paid for. I don't know why that's happening. Everything is paid Maybe a bib. My bib is a Buddhist robe. Instead of wearing it around the body, this is informal. But everything is paid for. I didn't touch anything. So we have to be careful. What are the consequences of what I'm doing? That's the bottom line. So some people are very careful. I'm not going to do anything, you know, that's going to have results.

[37:58]

And some people are more adventurous. Well, I can do these things and we'll see what happens. But it's not that you have boats or you have, you know, a country place at Lake Tahoe, but it's what your attitude is. So everything boils down to attitude. So, if you share what you have with people, you know, that's like a kind of renunciation in a way. Renunciation is like giving up avariciousness. So, is my motive avaricious? Am I, you know, just trying to indulge myself? Or, you know, can I share this with other people? so that it's a benefit to people. So, that's a question to ask. Who is this benefiting?

[38:59]

And if it's just benefiting my ego, well, you may not see the result of that in the beginning. We say it's like the law of karma, the law of results from our actions. we may not see the result of our action right away. So, you know, if you're pounding nails and you hit your thumb, you feel that effect right away. But there's some effects you don't feel right away. And you say, well, there's nothing wrong with this, you know. But later on down the line, you see an effect that was caused by something you did a long time ago. That happens to us all the time. And then they say there are causes, there are effects of which you don't feel until the next life. That's beyond my scope. I don't know what happens the next life, you know. But then sometimes people say, well, so-and-so, you know, has these particular problems probably from something that happened in the past life or the result of something that happened in the past life.

[40:08]

I don't know. I can't tell you whether that's true or not. Yes? Well, precepts for us are guidelines for our behavior, not to kill, not to steal, not to misuse sexuality, not to... There's a whole list of precepts. And we do pay attention to the precepts.

[41:12]

They're not commandments, but they're guidelines, and each one of them is a kind of koan, which I mentioned before. Koan is like a problem which whichever way you go, the other side is always blocking you. And you have to find your way through it without falling into one side or the other. So we say, the first one is don't kill, but everything is constantly being killed. All life is constantly being killed, and killing is the other side of living, and they go hand in hand. Everything is constantly being devoured by something.

[42:13]

Buddha called it the law of the fishes. The bigger fish eats the littler fish, and the bigger fish eats that fish, and the bigger fish eats that fish. Our bodies are continually being renewed. and eaten by microscopic organisms. So everything is eating everything else and living on everything else. So what is killing? But on the other hand, the precept says don't kill. So what does that mean? So there are many levels of understanding for a precept. Yes? I'll talk about Buddhist practices, okay, rather than just the Eightfold Path.

[43:34]

Buddhist practices involve the whole body and mind and give us a direction for how to live and a way to practice our life. And psychology is always present in whatever we do. There's a kind of natural psychology, I think, that is always present in every kind of practice. And I think, for me, psychology is intuition. It's intuitive. There's an intuitive psychology when we're very sensitive and when we know ourself and when we understand the causes of our own suffering then when we meet others we can see something about their suffering and their problems and when we're open to people without opinions or

[44:59]

ideas, too many ideas about it, and just allow ourselves to flow with the other person, I think that our psychology starts to work naturally. I have never studied psychology, and when people become too psychotic, I usually send them to a therapist or a psychologist. but I handle, you know, I come into contact with people over and over again and just being open with them and getting them to be honest with me and me being honest with them, our intuition comes up and I begin to understand where they are, they understand where I am, so there's a kind of flowing And over a period of time, that's as much as I can say about that subject.

[46:06]

Yes? If you meet the Buddha, kill the Buddha. That doesn't mean you should kill anybody, please. That means if you, when you, you know, to set up a Buddha, as a fixed thing, is to limit Buddha. It's the same as saying not to have graven images. Yeah. These are very appealing ideas, but it's hard to hold onto any of them. How do we hold on to things we do in our lives? Well, by not holding on to any ideas. Well, you have to engage in practice. In other words, for me, I don't see what you would have to do, but I would say for a Zen student, in our particular way, would practice meditation every day.

[47:26]

and study some, and have a relationship with a teacher, and orient your life around that practice. Sometimes people say, how do I get rid of my anger? I'm an angry person, how can I get rid of my anger? And I can say, well, you can do this, you can do that, but that doesn't help. What helps is that you get rid of, I don't know about get rid of, but you deal with your anger by practicing not being angry. You actually consciously practice the practice of loving kindness or not being angry. And when you practice that over and over, it becomes a foundation for your life so that when a situation comes up in which you would normally get angry, the anger doesn't take hold. But just to say, well, try this and try that doesn't work.

[48:32]

You have to practice not being angry so that when the conditions arise, you don't get angry or you don't harbor it. So that's why practice is very important. We always emphasize practice. We always emphasize you have to do it. You can't just think it. You can't just study it. So, that's when I, people usually come to practice after reading, but then mostly I say put the book down and just practice. And then at some point after you have some practice, then you can start reading again. And then when you start reading again, you say, oh, now I understand what I was reading. Yes? Yeah, you're quite right.

[49:40]

Before you can let go of the anger you have to feel it. That's quite correct. I didn't mean that anger doesn't arise. For some people it doesn't. For some people the anger will no longer arise. But when the anger does arise, you don't have to be attached to it. Yes? Well, in meditation, all states of mind arise. When you're sitting in meditation, various states of mind, thinking doesn't stop and feeling doesn't stop, but mental states are continually arising, but they're not taken up. You don't build a foundation on a thought or a feeling and take it somewhere.

[50:48]

So what you learn in meditation is that you don't have to take up anything that arises. Anger will arise, joy will arise, everything arises, but you don't have to take them up. So you're always grounded in a fundamental state, which is no particular state. Well, it's like a duck, maybe, who the water runs off anyway. But it's not that you, by, let me, I'll say it a different way. There's two, there's what we call reacting and responding.

[51:50]

Reacting is when something comes up, you react to it and become part of that. Responding is where you can step back and present yourself. In other words, somebody is angry at you and starts yelling, and if you react, you, the rage in you, matches the rage in them. That's reaction. Responding is somebody is angry at you, but you step back and come from where you are, rather than attaching to where they are. So, I would say that. I think we have a little semantic problem, as if no mind was not a mind. Empty mind, meaning no thoughts?

[53:15]

No thoughts, not that kind of thing. Yeah, so you don't have to worry. When you get back into the thought realm, then you can worry about mindfulness. Yes? You said that it follows between the mind and what you're listening to. Well, this is a Buddhist robe. A Buddhist robe for a monk or a priest goes around the body, you know. It's an outer robe which you wear when you're doing your duties. And this robe is just hanging by a strap. So the robe is, when Buddha made his robe, he made it out of little patches.

[54:17]

The monks would go to the rag pile or to a cemetery where there were a lot of rags laying around and they would take the rags and wash them and cut them and sew them together and dye them. That's the origin of the robe. And now we go to the store and find a nice piece of material, but we still cut it up and sew it together in a very nice way. All these little pieces sewn together, they represent rice fields with paths in between them, which represents something that covers the whole world. something that covers the whole ground. So a Buddhist robe covers the individual, but it also is a covering for everyone. So that's the origin of the robe.

[55:22]

Being Abbot, what does that mean? Well, it means doing a lot of traveling. It means doing the practice like everyone else, and leading services, and giving lectures continuously, and having private interviews continuously, and doing administration continuously, and finding time for your family discontinuously. so forth. Studying, if you can, in between. Yes? Well, you know, Buddhism developed in various countries, so it started from India and then went to all the various countries, and like Tibet is a very isolated country, so they developed a Buddhism

[56:37]

which is very unique to them. And Japan developed a Buddhism which is very unique to them because they're also pretty isolated. And the Chinese developed a Buddhism which is very different from the Indian Buddhism and Southeast Asians and so forth. So all the countries developed something a little bit different. They all maintain basic qualities which are similar or the same to each one. So Tibetan Buddhism... Well, I'm just predicting Buddhism. So, I'm not... Zen is a little different than Tibetan Buddhism in that we put so much emphasis on meditation and a certain kind of austerity, I think, because it's Japanese.

[57:56]

So there's some different emphasis. You know, it's a different emphasis. And Tibetan Buddhism is very colorful. You know, they have all these thangkas, and so it's very psychological. Zen is not so psychological as Tibetan Buddhism. Zen is more like direct. You know, let go of everything and just go directly. And Tibetan Buddhism is more step-by-step. Thank you very much.

[58:34]

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