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Think Not Thinking
The talk links Dōgen’s instruction “think of not thinking” with Yashan’s teaching of non-thinking: zazen is not the suppression of thoughts but a relaxed, present awareness that lets thoughts arise without grasping or judgment. The practice is tested in the immediate conditions of the sesshin—including illness, uncertainty, and communal care—and is sustained by trusting practice rather than pursuing a gain.
Texts referenced
- “Fukanzazengi” — Dōgen. Its instruction to “think of not thinking” frames the talk’s central account of zazen.
- “Zanmaiō Zanmai” (“Samadhi, King of Samadhis”) — Dōgen, in Shōbōgenzō. Its image of enlightenment as natural as “a dragon curled up at rest” articulates zazen as both ease and dynamic activity.
- ** Denkōroku (The Record of the Transmission of the Light) — Keizan Jōkin. It recounts Yashan’s exchanges on sitting, non-doing, and what cannot be known by conceptual explanation.
- ** Record of Yashan — author not specified. Its dialogue—“I’m thinking of not thinking” and “non-thinking”—provides the talk’s key teaching example.
- “The Harmony of Difference and Equality” and “The Song of the Grass-Roof Hermitage” — Shítóu Xīqiān. These works are cited in connection with Shítóu’s teachings and poetry.
- “Please honor followers of Zen…” — Dōgen, title not specified. The closing lines about the treasure store opening of itself are interpreted as an invitation to trust practice and release striving.
Speakers referred to
- Suzuki Rōshi. His teaching to return to the center and not be bothered by thoughts supports the account of non-thinking as returning to the present rather than suppressing thought.
- Sojin Rōshi. His instruction not to “kill” a thought, but to “go home,” illustrates a nonviolent, non-grasping approach to zazen.
- Steve Stucky. His song “Relax Your Mind” serves as an analogy for the ease and naturalness of practice.
- Lead Belly. His song is identified as the source of the refrain used in Stucky’s song.
Other works mentioned
- The Vinaya. The monastic code and Vinaya school are discussed as a rule-centered approach that Yashan leaves behind.
- “Relax Your Mind” — Lead Belly, as referenced through Steve Stucky’s rendition. Its refrain reinforces the talk’s emphasis on relaxing the mind rather than trying to eliminate thoughts.
AI Suggested Title: Relax Your Mind and Trust Practice
Penetrating and perfect Dharma is rarely met with, even in a hundred thousand million kalpas. Having it to see and listen to, to remember and accept, I vow to taste the truth of the Tathagatha's words. Good morning. Good morning. Welcome to day two of Rohatsu Sashimi. I want to begin by thanking my Dharma brother and dear friend and very important mentor to my practice for the past 28 years, the best of my recollection and mental arithmetic, our abbot Hozan Roshi, for inviting me to give this talk and for inviting me and Linda to lead this session.
[01:42]
We're very honored, humbled. And I'd like to start out by saying a few things about Hozon Rishi, both informational and personal. As many of you are no doubt aware, done a term for the worse over the weekend. Well, he's not doing so well at the moment. He's been more confused and I get less responsive a lot of the time. He's had a fever on and off.
[02:47]
Sometimes you'll run over a fever. and responds well to Tylenol, then he doesn't have a fever. As you all know, he's pretty weak and he's got a lot going on with his health. Yesterday, the family was faced with a decision in consultation, of course, with doctors. That decision being, do we take Hazan to the ER now or do we engage hospice care? They elected to engage hospice care because going to the ER on its own is a huge ordeal, maybe one that he wouldn't have been up to. Anyway, it was their decision.
[03:50]
And I think it's a good outcome. Lori feels really good about that because now they're getting much more support and a higher level of care now that hospice care is involved. So this is a good thing for our app, actually. So last night, Actually pretty late, Lori met with a hospice intake nurse. So getting that all set up, I think she's meeting with another nurse today. She had a phone call from a pleasant sounding man. She'll be coming by later on today. Hosanna is not actively dying at this moment.
[04:57]
But engaging hospice care is good because it'll really help him and the family and us to the process, in this process. He's still taking liquids, taking drink, and he's lucid sometimes. On and off. So it can be, you know, hi, I love you too, style of thing. So he's still with us. Sometimes he's quiet. So that's kind of the update. All right. I don't know how this is landing with all of you. I'm the person who is delivering this information this morning.
[06:09]
I think the important thing is that we're here together. Nobody is going to withhold any information about what's going on. Those of you who are joining us online, keep an eye on the listserv. There's going to be some information going out, I think, on the listserv and on the Cary Bridge site that Lori has been keeping up for a long time. This morning, 4.30 a.m., Linda and I had a little check-in with Lori about what was going on.
[07:11]
And I had told Lori that yesterday afternoon, we were sitting yesterday afternoon, and the door of the Zender was open. People could hear Alan moaning. Ready? Ready? Here? Could you hear that? For like 20 minutes or so. And when I told Lori that, she kind of winced. And I said something kind of off the wall, kind of surprised myself. Wow, did I just say that? I have a history of being unskillful in my speech sometimes. I said, I think it's kind of beautiful. And what I meant by that was that he's part of this sashimi and that we're doing this together.
[08:25]
That we're supporting him. And he's supporting us. We're doing this together. This is the power of Sangha. It is a beautiful thing, in my estimation. Adam is practicing hard. And so are all of us. For me, anyway, my experience is, it's making this machine particularly powerful. And bringing home over and over again.
[09:28]
We're not playing around here. We talk about the great matter of birth and death a lot in that, but it's not talk. It's actually what we're doing. What we're being confronted with. It can be conceptual. Right now, it's not a concept. It's what's happening. We're all doing this together. I think it's beautiful. If there's one thing I can say with a whole lot of confidence about all this, based on my own experience and talking to other people, it's that whatever you're feeling, whatever you're thinking, it's okay.
[10:40]
It's okay. You know, you might catch yourself saying, oh, I shouldn't be thinking that, or I shouldn't be having that feeling. Actually, it's okay. Whatever you're feeling, whatever you're thinking, it's part of your process, and everyone is gonna have their own process, and it's okay. It really is okay. When you hear my teacher's voice, it has to be okay. There's the Dharma talk you think you're going to give.
[12:03]
And then there's the Dharma talk that happens. I feel like I could stop now and take questions. But, you know, after the morning break, Linda and I sat down with Lori talked about what to say, how to say it. I took careful notes. And I believe I've imparted all the information that there is to impart at this moment. Yeah. One question that might beat up for you, some of you, is about the possibility of sitting with Kozama Roshi, since that's what we're doing. as we were sitting. And I believe that Susan and Lori will be talking, discussing about that and figuring out the logistics of, you know, that happens when and how.
[13:20]
And I think, yeah, they're going to have more to say about that in Workshable. I don't know if you're interested in hearing the Dharma talk I thought I was going to give. Oh, thank you, Ken. Nice to see you. My dear friend, Ken. Yes? I had a question. I'm wondering if we could do a well-being service for you as a new service. Is it Vino?
[14:23]
Me? I think it's a great idea, Carol. Let's do it. Let's chant that. I think it's a good kind of gift. For Hosanoshin. And for us. For all of us. whatever we're going through. We're going through it together. That's sangha. I just can't emphasize it enough. Well, I wanted to talk about our ancestors. Oh yes, Helen. or do you have any ideas about what would be supportive, you know, not to make a beeline to Lori?
[15:25]
Yeah, I would say stay tuned. I can definitely say with all confidence that Lori feels very supportive at this moment. And yeah, like I said, she couldn't meet with a hospice nurse. later on today. Stay tuned. Okay, I am taking questions now, Ross. Thank you, Greg. I'll set up the well-being ceremony for noon time and an opportunity for you to say something at that time, okay? Okay, somebody else? I'll just put the name down wherever I get. With regard to the kanong, we'll be chanting the name, it reminds me of, here is the sounds of the world, and some of the sounds are more audible than others.
[16:36]
I didn't hear Hosan's moaning, but I saw Susan's hand raise, and obviously she did, and she said, You know, we're all practicing together. We don't necessarily hear each other's moans about whatever our situation is, but we're all moaning together. We're all moaning together. Thank you, Ross. Yeah. Sam. Yeah, I just wanted to mention, Greg, I really like the idea of being with Ojan. I did when he was in the hospital. Shannon went with him for hours until they would push me out, and I would be glad to do that again. He responded, he responded. I know he was unconscious, but he moved his eyes, he moved around, he was responding. When and if, I would be very glad to do that again. Thank you, Sam. Thank you very much.
[17:37]
And I pray for Roshi Ozan to get better soon. Yeah. Don't rely on anything, actually. No, I see him up there. I think he's coming back to a sense of what I think. Thank you. Ken wanted to hear that. I wanted to talk about our ancestor Yashan. His name we chanted this morning.
[18:40]
the lineage of Buddhist ancestors. He's in the direct lineage of our Soto Zen lineage. In Japanese, . In Chinese, it means medicine mountain. What a cool Dharma name. It's from the ninth generation of Chinese ancestors in the Tang Dynasty. 8th century, 9th century of the Kalon era. Specifically, 751 to 834 of the Kalon era. He was Shurto's student. Shurto Sekito Kisen. Sekito Kisen . Okay, so, Dungshan's Dharma Grandfather.
[19:46]
I'm kind of picking up where Linda left off yesterday. Back to... A Dogen's Fukazazengi. Dogen's Zazen instruction, right? In Fukazazengi, I've got it written down here so I don't have to guess. Dogen says, once you have adjusted your posture, take deep breath. Inhale and exhale. Rock your body right and left and settle into a steady and movable sitting position. Think of not thinking. How do you think of not thinking?
[20:54]
Non-thinking. This in itself is the essential art of Zazen. So, that's Yasham. That's why I wanted to talk about Yasham. Because this was very meaningful to Darwin. How do you think of not thinking, non-thinking? And this was an actual exchange that happened, which, well, goes a little bit like this. To prepare for this talk, I read two complete, different, English translations of the Record of Yashan. It's only two pages long. Once, when the teacher was sitting, a monk asked him, what are you thinking of sitting there so fixedly?
[21:58]
The teacher answered, I'm thinking of not thinking. The monk asked, How do you think of not thinking? The teacher answered, non-thinking. So this is a koan. I don't believe it's in any koan collection. I could be wrong. I'm not that well versed. But many of these stories can be taken as koans. And we have such a rich legacy. of teaching and practice to draw upon, all the way back in the university. That's so long ago. And that's just, that's just a drop, you know? He said, I want to talk about Yasha. Yasha, who's that? You know? One among many. These ancient, venerable worthies. There's so many stories that just bring these people alive.
[23:03]
Maybe one of the top five things I love about Zen is this incredibly rich legacy. So I share a couple of other tidbits from the record of Yashan just because it's fun. As a young man, Yashan was a monk in the Vinaya school. This is an actual school of Buddhism that still goes on in China to this day. Vinaya is the code of conduct for monastics. And the Vinaya school is you just follow the rules. There's a lot of them. They're incredibly detailed. It covers every single aspect of your conduct throughout the day. And the entire practice is Follow the rules and help other people to follow the rules and you're going to be okay.
[24:07]
You follow those rules completely, you're doing it. You're completely on the path to Buddha. He decided it wasn't for him. One day, he sighed. I'm just a human. I can't be confined by all these monastic rules. I should be able to resolve my problems by myself. There's no point in doing every little thing according to all the specific rules. So he set out. He practiced a lot with Matsu, another great teacher. I don't know that Matsu and Chirito were actually friends, but they were definitely aware of each other. They sent students back and forth, and Yaoshan practiced with Matsu for a long time.
[25:09]
Eventually, Matsu told him, your affinity is not here. Go back to Shirtong, which he did. Oh, here's another one. This was much later when Yaoshan had his own temple. but only 20 monks in his assembly because he was so austere. In the Danko Roku, the Record of Transmission of the Light by Keizan Jokin, he says that Yaoshan in his temple on Medicine Mountain had only 20 monks practicing with him because he was so austere. Most of them could not stand the cold and hunger. but he had many enlightened students. A monk who was a teacher said to Yashan, I've got a problem, can you help me with it?
[26:13]
Yashan said, I'll solve it for you when I'm in the hall. Here, in the hall, Yashan said, where's the teacher who's got a problem? The monk stepped out from the group. Yashan arose from his meditation seat, grasped the monk and said, everybody pay attention. This monk has a problem. Then Yao Shan pushed the monk aside and returned to the abbot's quarters. Then I read these things and I was like, what a goof. Then I also thought, in the 80s, 1983 through 1989, I lived in a big Johannes Point neighborhood in San Francisco. I really liked it there. And there was some expression I picked up, some 80s, that you'd hear sometimes somebody would say about somebody else, oh, she's all the way live.
[27:19]
Or he's all the way live. These venerable worthies were all the way live. That's all. They were just completely themselves. just completely themselves. There's a very similar exchange that also shows up in the Denka Roku. One day, as Yashan was sitting, his teacher Shirtle asked him, what are you doing here? Yashan said, I'm not doing a thing. Shirtle said, then you're just sitting leisurely. Yashan said, if I were sitting leisurely, I'd be doing something.
[28:22]
Shirtle said, you say you're not doing anything. What is it that you're not doing?" Yashon said, a thousand sages don't know. Shirtle then wrote a verse of praise that said, long abiding together, not knowing its name, just going on, practicing like this. Since ancient times, the sages don't know. Will searching everywhere now make it known? Shoto was quite diversified, you know. He wrote The Harmony of Difference and Inequality, Suzuki Roshi's favorite. He also wrote The Song of the Grassproof Hermitage, which many people enjoy. Quite the poet. Here's another translation, and this is just, it's so fun because it really,
[29:28]
it makes it evident how problematic it is to translate archaic Chinese into English. So, this other translation I think has the gist of it as well, but it's completely different. A person doesn't know how it works, just goes along with it naturally. All the sages in history can't explain it. And ordinary people don't understand it either. So, to me, this ties very closely to not thinking, non-thinking. What kind of thinking is that? Non-thinking. We say, mind like a wall.
[30:30]
In our tradition, we face the wall like Bodhidharma in his cave. Or sometimes we say, mind like a mirror. When things come up, when thoughts come up, that's okay. Suzuki Roshi said, don't be bothered by your thoughts. You come back to the center. You come back to your breath, as you all know, over and over again. Letting go of all thoughts and views. Letting go of judging right or wrong, this or that. Just being here, just being this body, this breath, this breath and this body. this moment. So, I don't know, that's a lot of thinkifying about non-thinking.
[31:45]
And like I said, even though it may not be in any koan collection, it's definitely a koan. think with fondness of the late abbot of San Francisco Zen Center, Mjogan Steve Stuckey, who would get up on that time in the teacher's seat in Tassajara with his guitar. And abbot Steve was very fond of the blues He was a musician who loved American folkways, just like Hozan Roshi. And he would sing this same song, I don't know how many times I've heard Steve sing this song. It's kind of a goofy song.
[32:47]
It's a song about learning to drive a car. And the chorus goes, relax your mind, relax your mind. helped you live a good long time. Sometimes you've got to relax your mind. Many times. So it really stuck with me. And I think I get what Avastee was getting at. You can make yourself buggy. You know, not thinking, you know, well, how do I do that? Go here, you know. Or really a way that a lot of people approach upright sitting, seated meditation. A lot of the time, they start, I have to quit it down if I'm having a thought.
[33:50]
Stop, stop, stop, stop having thoughts. You know, sounds really painful. No, that's not it. That's not it. That's your mind. A person doesn't know how it works, just goes along with it naturally. This is the Taoist aspect of Zen. Zen always, always in the history of Buddhism has been picking up what helps culturally. China, very much influenced by Taoism and Confucianism. These days, psychology, neuroscience, social action, it's undefined. Zen is just Zen. I really appreciate this, what Suzuki Roshi called naturalness.
[34:58]
Not the kind of naturalness like just do whatever you want, but what flows from inside. We all have it. All of us. Birth in a human body is the only prerequisite for being a bodhisattva in training. Anybody can do this. anybody can do is not doing. Just relax your mind. It's funny, it's a song about learning to drive a car because if you think about it, if you think about it, driving a car, you know, you can't be like, now I have to depress the accelerator, now I have to turn the signal. You don't do that when you're driving. Just drive, you know?
[36:01]
That's what social Roshi would say. And yeah, you really, in order to drive a car, you have to relax your mind. And in order to practice this way, I think the same, you know? Relax your mind. You're reminding me of one of my most favorite exchanges that Sojin Roshi had in a public asking questions. Alexandria asked him, when I'm in Zazen and I have a thought,
[37:09]
Do I kill the thought? And he said, no, no, no. Don't hurt the poor little thought. It's just a little thought. Don't hurt the thought. Just go home. And so then that became a go on for a long time. Let's home. Where's home? And I think that state of a relaxed mind is home. Original dwelling place. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. And we all have it. We all have it. We all have it. With our practice of our city.
[38:11]
Sometimes you like it. Sometimes you hate it. It doesn't matter. You just keep going. That's the power of Sashim. I like to say my Zazen instruction in five words, stay present for whatever arises. Okay, so it could be all kinds of thoughts and feelings. Today, this week, might be a lot. This is what we're training for. This is how we train. And I know people talk a lot about musho toku mind, no gaining idea, to be hung up on getting something. Okay. Good advice. And you're going to get something.
[39:16]
This is what you get. You get the ability to stay present for whatever arises when it gets tough. When the eight worldly winds are blowing like a gale. That's when you really get to practice. Sashin is a gift that we're all giving each other. Or as the late beat poet, second abbot of Harford Street Zen Center, Philip Whelan, once said, Sashin is a very quiet, very slow moving party. It's something we all do together, quiet, great consideration for each other, and little sparks of joy throughout.
[40:33]
Please do enjoy your practice. Please do enjoy sashimi. Tokusani. I wanted to say, Linda and I, now, we can just keep going with Tokusan and do whenever, because we have the luxury of being in a seven-day sashimi. So it's not going to be necessarily a particular time of day. So if you sign up for Tokusan, we'll see you soon. You know, when you're ready, if you have a preference for when we see you, put that down on the sign-up sheet over there, okay? We can just keep going. Maybe some of you got some stuff you want to talk about. I wanted to mention that. I wanted to leave you with a little bit more dogen.
[41:40]
And this is from Shobha Genzo Zanmai Bo Zanmai, which means the samadhi, which is the king of samadhis. Basically, we point that. Sorry, that's what the clicker for you over the Zendo door said. Wow. How cool is that? T-I-L. I did not know that. That's very cool. It's a licorice, it's a licorice. Wow. Nice. Okay. I love it. you know, among his many masterpieces. This is a shorter fascicle. It's about Zaza. Guess what? It's about Zaza. Logan says, Shakyamuni Buddha said to the assembly, when you sit in the meditation posture, you realize samadhi in body and mind and give rise to an awesome virtue that people respect.
[42:44]
Like the sun illuminating and refreshing the world, This sitting removes obscurities from the mind and lightens the body so that exhaustion is set aside. Enlightenment becomes as natural as a dragon curled up at rest. A demon is frightened even by a picture of someone sitting in the meditation posture, how much more so by a living person who realizes the way sitting motionless and at ease. My wish for all of you, for the rest of this session and, hey, the rest of your lives, is that you be, enlightenment becomes as natural as a dragon curled up at rest. I love that image so much. A dragon is like the embodiment of dynamic activity, you know. You know what?
[43:45]
She's curled up at rest. She's just chilling. Just chilling. You have five minutes. I have five minutes? A couple of questions if you want. Thanks for your attention. Yeah. Take questions? Sure. Ken. Another question. Do you know where that lecture line comes from? No. Lead Belly, yeah. I'm sure that Steve said that. Yeah. Lead Belly, Steve, he was a fan. He was a big fan. Yeah, so you know that song. For those of you who may not know, Lead Belly was a guy who was twice in the chain gangs. And at one time, when he was in the chain gang, Somebody came around and he sang a song and the governor of the state decided to pardon him.
[44:56]
So he's out for a while and then he gets caught in another turmoil where he kills somebody, probably self-defense, but nevertheless, back in the chain gang again. And he's there for a while. And then a folklorist from the Library of Congress, John Lomax, comes to that prison and says, got any people that sing songs here in Lead Belly sing some more songs, and including a song that includes the words to governor so-and-so, you know, if our positions were changed, I'd pardon you. And long story short, he did get a second pardon, and then he didn't later on and he then became this famous folk singer in the 30s and 40s. Thank you. Yes please.
[46:01]
Thank you Greg. I don't know if you have it there but I think Linda ended her talk yesterday with I think maybe it's the closing lines of Please honor followers of Zen, long accustomed to groping for the elephant, do not be suspicious of the true dragon. Right. Wasn't there a line, maybe it wasn't the very end? Your treasure store? That's the very last line. Your treasure store will open up itself, and you will use it at will. Can you say something about that? We. Can you not say something about that? What do I want to say about that? You know, Suzan Roshi must have told me like hundreds of times, trust your practice.
[47:03]
You trust your practice. So to me, that's the root of what To me, that's the root of what I think Dogen was getting at. That is to say, when you quit trying so hard, when you relax your mind, when you drop the agenda, when you drop all the judging and calculating, There's an abundance there of possibility. And you're not him. That abundance, to me, that's the treasure storm.
[48:06]
And he says, interestingly, it will open up itself. You don't do it. You know what I'm saying? Nope. It just happens. Trust your practice, Soja said. Just trust your practice. That's my take on that. Thank you. Again, thanks for your attention. Kings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable.
[49:11]
I vow to become it. Beings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. Beings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them.
[50:14]
Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it.
[50:22]
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