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Your Continuous Practice

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BZ-03174
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The talk interprets Dōgen’s Gyōji (“Continuous Practice”) as teaching that aspiration, practice, enlightenment, and nirvāṇa are not sequential or separable: practice-realization is enacted in each present moment and throughout daily activity. Continuous practice links practitioners with the Buddha ancestors, sustains the bodhisattva vow to awaken with all beings, and requires discerning and relinquishing habits that perpetuate suffering.

Texts and works referenced
- “Gyōji” (“Continuous Practice”), Dōgen — Central text; its account of unbroken practice and the circle of the way frames the talk.
- “Fukanzazengi,” Dōgen — Cited for the tension between the all-pervading Way and the need to practice and realize it.
- “Uji” (“Being Time”), Dōgen — Invoked in discussion of being beyond linear time and the present moment.
- “Cultivating the Empty Field,” Hongzhi Zhengjue — Referenced for instructions to clear habitual tendencies and abide in the field of emptiness.
- “Seeing One Thing Through,” Sojun Mel Weitsman — Connects sustained practice during sesshin with meeting difficulty without separation.
- The Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path — Presented as practice instructions: acknowledge suffering, release attachment, realize freedom, and follow the path.
- The precepts and the kechimyaku (blood-vein lineage document) — The precepts extend practice into daily conduct; the lineage document embodies the unbroken transmission of practice and realization.
- Teachings of Thích Nhất Hạnh — Cited for presenting awakening and nirvāṇa alongside impermanence and no-self as marks of existence.

Teachers and figures referred to
- Dōgen and his teacher Rujing — Dōgen’s awakening under Rujing grounds the teaching that practice and realization are inseparable.
- Shakyamuni Buddha and Mahākāśyapa — Their lineage and the Buddha’s decision to teach exemplify transmission and the vow to awaken others.
- Hongzhi Zhengjue — His guidance on clearing fabricated habits informs the discussion of karma and practice.
- Shunryū Suzuki and Sojun Mel Weitsman — Their teachings on nirvāṇa and sustained practice illuminate the talk’s emphasis on meeting each moment.

AI Suggested Title: Practice Realization in Every Moment

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Transcript:

have such a full zendo and to be practicing together this day of study Sashin. First of all, I'd like to thank Hozan Roshi for inviting me to lead today and to give this talk. And of course, my old teacher, Akuryu Sojun Dayo Sho, Sojun Roshi, is always with me and particularly so in this place, and with all of you, many of us practice together within. So our text for today is a text by Dogen, a fascicle, called Gyoji, translated as continuous practice, sometimes also translated as the circle of the way. Okay, you all have your... Pages, which I think are under your seat if you wish to follow along.

[02:06]

Page under everybody's cushion. Can somebody possibly adjust the laptop? It's currently cutting off the top of Munda's head. Oh, that's no good. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So it begins. On the great road of Buddha ancestors, there is always unsurpassable practice, continuous and sustained. It forms the circle of the way and is never cut off. Between aspiration, practice, enlightenment and nirvana, there is not a moment's gap.

[03:14]

Continuous practice is the circle of the way. This being so, continuous practice is undivided, not forced by you or others. The power of this continuous practice confirms you as well as others. It means your practice affects the entire earth and the entire sky in the ten directions. Although not noticed by others or by yourself, it is so. Accordingly, by the continuous practice of all Buddhas and ancestors, Your practice is actualized and your great road opens up. By your continuous practice, the continuous practice of all Buddhas is actualized and the great road of all Buddhas opens up.

[04:14]

Your continuous practice creates the circle of the way. So, this great road of Buddha ancestors. So this is the lineage that Dogen is invoking right at the beginning. Passed down from Shakyamuni Buddha, to the Buddha ancestors, to Suzuki Roshi, to Hoitsu Suzuki Roshi, to Sojun Roshi, and to the present day, Ozan Roshi. And many of you have already received the precepts and ordained, so it goes to you too. And I love that Dogen visualizes this as a great broad road, wide, inclusive, welcoming,

[05:20]

not just a narrow path but a broad road that we may all course together on. So on the great road of Buddha ancestors there is always unsurpassable practice, continuous and sustained. So Dogen's practice koan, his life koan, the burning question that drove him to practice was if we all have inherently Buddha nature, why do we have to practice? And this was as a young person that he had this question and he had absolute faith in Buddha Dharma and absolute faith that we all have Buddha nature. So he wasn't questioning that, he was questioning then why if we all have this, if we're all perfectly pure from the beginning, why do we have to practice?

[06:27]

And he went to different monasteries and studied with different teachers in Japan and was unable to find an answer that satisfied him. So he went to China and There he eventually met his teacher, Ru Jing, Tendon Yojo. And with Ru Jing, he fully awakened. And in that awakening, he understood that practice and realization are not separate. As he said, are completely undefiled. Not separate. And he often referred to it as practice realization. In English, we hyphenate it. practice realization, one thing. And shortly after he came back from China, one of the first things that he wrote was the Fukanzo Zen-gi. And this is an abbreviated version that begins, the way is basically perfect and all-pervading.

[07:34]

How could it be contingent upon practice and realization? The Dharma vehicle is free and untrammeled. What need is there for concentrated effort? And yet, if there is the slightest discrepancy, the way is as distant as heaven from earth. If the least like or dislike arises, the mind is lost in confusion. Since this was the case with the saints of all, How can we today dispense with negotiation of the way? So even though we are all fully endowed with Buddha nature, we still have to actualize it for ourselves. There are a whole set of images for this, like having a jewel sewn into the hem of your robe, but if you don't know it's there, you will go around starving and struggling your whole life.

[08:37]

So we have to actualize this for ourselves. And we actualize it through practice. And all the old teachers practiced. So there are many openings, there's a lot to open with in Gyoji, in continuous practice, in the fascicle. But fairly quickly he gets on into stories of the ancestors. So most of this is the longest basical and it's divided into two sections. And it's just story after story after story. And we'll share a few of those this afternoon. And clearly Dogen was tremendously inspired by these stories. And many, many people have been tremendously inspired by these stories, which is why we keep bringing them up. And they're dead until we bring them to life.

[09:41]

They're words on a page that we may or may, or things that we've heard that we may or may not understand. We have to realize them for ourselves. We have to bring it to life. So this is what this is about. Today we have a one day of sushin together. Zazen is a ceremony just like morning service is a ceremony and the bodhisattva ceremony. The whole day today is actually a ceremony. It has form, ritual, it creates a container for practice. So the idea of practice, part of the purpose of practicing these forms is to expand our idea of what practice is and to realize practice throughout our day.

[10:49]

In the Buddhist time, the monks had a very strict and astonishingly thorough set of precepts. I think 252 of them for men and about 100 more for women. And they covered everything, how you bow, how you eat, how you shave your head, how you wash your face. It took in the whole day relationships with other people relationships with other monks, relationships with lay people. And basically, yes, your whole day there was guidance for that so that you could watch your mind just as we do during zazen in action as well as in stillness. So part of the practice of sitting zazen is to bring

[11:53]

a dynamic sense of energy to stillness and on the other side to bring that inner deep sense of stillness to all of our activities throughout the day and to maintain a Zazen mind regardless of what the body is doing. Dogen says, a moment of Zazen is a moment of awakening. And in English, a moment might sound like a minute, like a measurable length of time. But a moment for Dogen or for Buddha was an immeasurable length of time, infinitesimal, just a nanosecond or less. So even that tiny, tiny moment of zazen is a moment of awakening.

[12:57]

We were just there and aware. So this part of practice, part of the heart of practice, because I think we've all had, probably if we're here, we've had a number of moments of zazen, moments of awakening, moments of clarity. maybe throughout our lives, maybe that was what brought us to the path of religion, some sense of things. But if they just remain moments, flashes, that's not enough. And Dogen encouraged us again and again to go beyond that, to have practice be continuous. of our awareness be continuous. So on the great road of Buddha ancestors there is always unsurpassable practice continuous and sustained.

[14:07]

It forms the circle of the way and is never cut off. So practice forms the circle of the way So this symbol of a circle, in Zen in particular, but throughout Buddhism, is very powerful and very pervasive. So in an Enso ink drawing of a circle, and it generally, it can symbolize many things, including enlightenment, emptiness, the true nature of reality, simplicity, the cycle of birth and death, interconnectedness, the circle of family. And I find it wonderful that emptiness and the circle of birth and death are both symbolized by a circle, not separate, not separate.

[15:18]

So in a couple of weeks, there will be a jukai here, a lay ordination, and six people will receive rakasus, the blue robes that many people are wearing. And along with that, as part of that, they will receive the precepts, and they will receive a document called a kechimiyaku. And on the Ketchumyaku is the lineage from Shakyamuni Buddha to Mahakasyapa, to Ananda, all the way down to Bodhidharma, and down to Dogen, and down to Suzuki Roshi, Mitsu Suzuki, and Sojun Roshi, and then to the person's teacher. And it's the document So it's like a lineage but it winds and it has this red line and it's called.

[16:29]

The name of this document is the blood vein. So this is the beating heart, the blood vein of the lineage of Buddhas and ancestors going through, starting with Shakyamuni Buddha And at the end is the name of the person who is receiving the precepts. And from there, it circles back up to the top so that it's unbroken. It forms a messy circle. It's winding in here, but if you undid it, it would be one complete circle. And this touches on the unbroken nature of this lineage, of this practice, of this realization. Between aspiration, practice, enlightenment and nirvana, there is not a moment's gap.

[17:37]

So again, this moment, there is not a moment's gap. There is not essentially any gap. Dogen points this out because we might think that there's aspiration, then practice, then enlightenment, then nirvana. I practice in order to awaken. And he's just letting that go by. Not quite, yes, and not quite. So Dogen continually points beyond time, beyond cause and effect. And this is definitely one of those places. So I'm going to go through each of those words and unpack them a little bit. Aspiration. This is the bodhisattva vow. Bodhicitta, arousing the mind of the way.

[18:42]

It's often seen as the initial step on the path, like arousing arousing the determination, the vow to practice, to realize this path from oneself. And I find it really interesting that Dogen says that the aspiration for enlightenment is aroused with discerning mind. In other words, you have to have a functional thinking mind in order to be able to arouse this deep vow, this deep wish to awaken. You can't do it without. So there is a purpose, for sure, for our usual ordinary everyday minds, and this is one of them. And part of discerning mind is also that we need to be able to tell

[19:46]

What is beneficial and what is harmful? What is conducive to freedom from suffering and what tends to lead to more suffering? And what is harmful and what's wholesome? If we can't discern that, well that's really kind of where it starts because otherwise you tend to fall into harming or whatever. So discerning mind. very important and part of it is to be able to see that you may be dissatisfied with life as it is and find your way to the path of practice, put away, and to be able to say, I aspire to realize this for myself. And Dogen says, oh, I'm sorry, He talks about arousing the aspiration for enlightenment is making the vow to bring others across before oneself, to not just exit the world of suffering, but to stay immersed in the life of all beings and to support all beings and to bring them across with you.

[21:14]

I really like what we say at Berkeley Zen Center, I vow, not I vow to save all beings, but I vow to awaken with all beings. I think that expresses it so well. So Dogen says, if you, oh, this aspiration, Dogen, this aspiration is not in yourself, nor are you in it. This aspiration leads people into the Buddha way If you compare unsurpassable complete enlightenment with the beginner's aspiration for enlightenment, it is like comparing a blaze that destroys the world with the blinking of a firefly. Yet if you arouse the intention of awakening others first, these two are indistinguishable. Yet if you arouse the intention of awakening others first, these two are indistinguishable.

[22:17]

Fire is fire. And he quotes Kasyapa Buddha, who was Shakyamuni Buddha's heir, who extolled Shakyamuni Buddha in saying, although beginner's mind and ultimate mind are indistinguishable, the beginner's mind is more difficult. I bow to the beginner's mind. that lets others awaken first. So Dogen is holding this up as a deep part of our practice. So I believe that this refers to Buddha's decision after his awakening when he awakened fully and completely Many, many experiences in the coming many days were extremely powerful.

[23:24]

He often said, what I teach is just like a handful of leaves from the whole forest that I've experienced. So he experienced many, many things. And he could clearly have gone on abiding there. But he had the thought, should I try to share what I've experienced with others? And at first he thought, no one would understand this. It's beyond words. It's beyond expression. I don't know how to do this. I don't think anyone else would understand. But he reconsidered. So he stepped down off the top of the mountain and he spent the next 45 years of his life, until he was 80 years old, teaching continuously. What a gift. A gift of his entire life for 45 years.

[24:26]

So aspiration, practice. So practice takes many forms and all of these stories of the ancestors that are the second, you know, that are the most of the rest of Gyōji, of this classical, are... They're all different. I mean, they all have things in common. This absolute vow and commitment and dedication to what they set out to do and how they will manifest in their practice. But the forms are many. And much of what we're going to talk about this afternoon will be, how is it manifesting in your lives? None of us here are monastics, at this point at least. So how do we practice? How do we manifest this? That these are the stories of the ancestors. So practice could be practicing the Four Noble Truths,

[25:42]

There are many, the Eightfold Path. You know, even in the Four Noble Truths, each one has a practice instruction, which was really a revelation for me, because I used to take them as four things you should believe if you're a Buddhist. There's suffering, there's a cause of suffering, there's an end to suffering, there's a path to the end of suffering. But there are practice instructions for each. Maybe I should say there is a request of practice for each of them. So for suffering exists, there is suffering. The request is to see that clearly, to be with that. To not separate yourself from it, but to be with the suffering of yourself and of others.

[26:46]

The next one, obviously, is there's a cause of suffering which is basically wanting it to be otherwise. It's usually translated as clinging, but it could be clinging to comfort, clinging to ignorance, it could be clinging to many, many things which encompasses basically every possible way we could want things to be other than they are in that moment or generally. So it's to let go. That's the request of the second noble truth, is to let go. Let go of whatever you're holding onto. And that doesn't mean it stops there and you don't make a decision to do something about the situation, but you let go of the suffering caused by wanting it to be otherwise and fully acknowledge, this is what's happening. Then you can get onto the nail button. So the third noble truth, There is freedom from suffering.

[27:49]

And the request of practice, in the most request of our hearts, is to realize that. To not just take that as, oh yeah, there's some kind of grace. Great. It's for you. It's for you to taste. You make a meal and you want to taste it. Or you make a meal and you want to share it with other people and taste it too. and then there's a path to practice, and of course the request is to practice that path. A lot of the way the path unfolds is by how we deal with our karmic tendencies. And Amshur says, the boundless field of emptiness is what exists from the very beginning. You must pure, purify, grind down or brush away all the tendencies you have fabricated into apparent habits.

[28:58]

There it is. There's karma. For a long time I wondered, what is the relationship between our karma, our habitual ways of being, And awakening, they seem like two entirely separate things. It was like, oh, here they are, right together. This is what the hindrances are. This is what gets in the way. So we have to know ourselves. What gets in our own way? How do we get in our own way? And how do we let go of that? This is practice. And then, I'm sure, this is the opening paragraph for the opening few sentences of Cultivating the Empty Field, I'm sure practice instructions. When we let go, when we have purified, cured, grind down or brushed away for a moment or longer, then you can reside in a clear circle of lightness.

[30:03]

Enlightenment. Aspiration, practice, enlightenment. Right there. reside in the clear circle of brightness there's enlightenment. So Dogen uses the word enlightenment in multiple ways and I can't read either Japanese or Chinese except a few characters so we're going by the English translations but here are some of the ways that Dogen from translations I understand that Dogen uses enlightenment. Shakyamuni Buddha's original awakening, that one. The original manifestation of Buddha nature, which he saw as inseparable from practice. The fundamental awareness of reality beyond all dualism and a sudden direct experience of reality.

[31:05]

So all of these are referred to as enlightenment. in different times. And Dogen continued to stress, you have to go beyond those sudden momentary experiences. There's more to it than that. More is possible. And then Nirvana. Enlightenment Nirvana. So originally in the Buddhist time it was the extinction of the fires of desire. the liberation from the cycle of birth and death, which is the stuff of our daily lives. That is the cycle of birth and death. And the suffering and stress and unsatisfactoriness of wanting things to be other than they are. So Zen, a Zen perspective also includes that, but

[32:11]

is very clear repeatedly that nirvana is not separate from birth and death. Nirvana is not separate from suffering. Thich Nhat Hanh talks about the marks of existence as being, well, the traditional ones are impermanence, no self, and suffering. And Thich Nhat Hanh said, impermanence, no self, and awakening, and nirvana. So they're the both and. When you find your seat, when you take your place, when you settle completely in the midst of suffering, it's fine. The suffering that we add has gone pain, and still be there. The extra is gone.

[33:12]

So continuous practice is the circle of the way. So this continuous practice of all Buddhas and ancestors is the circle of the way. All the aspects of it, aspiration, practice, enlightenment, nirvana, are beyond space and time. We localize them in space and time, but actually it's beyond space and time. So it goes on. This being so, continuous practice is undivided, not forced by you or others. Not forced by you or others. It's undivided. The power of this continuous practice confirms you as well as others. It means your practice affects the entire earth and the entire sky in the ten directions.

[34:26]

That's really powerful and I think we have so many examples today of how the acts of a few people in the world can affect the entire earth for good or ill. I'm not talking about practice at the moment but people do heroic things or upright things or deadly things and as unimaginable impacts. It's all of us. It's not separate. I think the first time I realized the kind of non-separateness of our actual world was thinking about, I finally get it. When we throw trash away, there's no away. Where does it go? I mean, you know, it's like, okay, you can send it up to space.

[35:34]

Now there's a whole thing about space trash. going anywhere. So it has this ripple effect. And practice has this ripple effect. And he says, it means your practice affects the entire earth and the entire sky in the ten directions. Although not noticed by others or by yourself, it is so. It is so. Whether you can see it or not. Whether others can see it or not. Accordingly, by the continuous practice of all Buddhas and ancestors, your practice is actualized and your great road opens up. By your continuous practice, the continuous practice of all Buddhas is actualized and the great road of all Buddhas opens up. Wow. Yeah, that's us.

[36:37]

We're doing that. We're turning the wheel of the Dharma all together. That's what's happening whether you notice it or anyone else does or not. Your continuous practice creates the circle of the way. Your continuous practice creates the circle of the way. Our continuous practice individually, but particularly all together, creates the road, continues the road. We travel on the road, the great road of all of us and ancestors. We are all walking together on that road. We're all part of that. Dogen says later on in the fascicle, Continuous practice that actualizes itself is no other than your continuous practice right now.

[37:43]

Not some other time, not next period I'll really focus, or I'll do Rahatsu, that'll do it. No, it's your continuous practice right now, like this now, right now. And that includes other nows, which are maybe less happy nows. All the nows. Continuous practice that actualizes itself is no other than your continuous practice right now. And then, your continuous practice of this day is a seed of all Buddhas and the practice of all Buddhas. All Buddhas are actualized and sustained by your continuous practice.

[38:48]

Blossoms opening and leaves falling now are the actualization of continuous practice. Polishing the mirror or breaking the mirror is no other than this practice. Even if you might try to ignore it in order to hide a crooked intention and escape from it, this ignoring would also be continuous practice. We could keep going about all the things that are not excluded from continuous practice because it's everything. There is nothing outside of practice. Practice is how we relate with whatever's happening. Maybe skillful, maybe unskillful. That's why we continue our practice to wake up and make those individual moments of opening, moments of awakening, more continuous, stronger and stronger.

[39:57]

He says, do not look beyond the present moment to find something you think is continuous practice. To do so would be like leaving behind the treasure at the home of your true parent and wandering poor in another land. Not abandoning this person, this experience, this heart, right here, right now, no matter what's arising. Staying with it. coming back, coming back, coming back, wandering off, coming back. Once Sochin asked Suzuki Roshi, what is nirvana? Suzuki Roshi said, seeing one thing through to the end. And in Sochin's book called Seeing One Thing Through, He says, during Sashim, even though we may have difficulties and doubt, we continue to sit still in the midst of the waves, riding one wave at a time.

[41:15]

We exist in that space, offering ourself totally. Without the last gap of separation, we face the reality of our situation and can enjoy navigating the difficulties. We might have time. Do we end first? We have 10 minutes. We have 10 minutes for a few questions or comments. Please. What's your name? Steve. Steve. Hi, Steve. Hi. I didn't catch your name either. Linda. I'm so sorry. My name is Linda Gallion. That's okay. I saw you introduced to the newsletter, but then I, of course, I don't remember anything I read. So when I first read this fascicle, or the excerpt of the fascicle, it felt to me like part of a burden, continuous practice, holding up the whole universe.

[42:25]

And as you were speaking, it seemed like the burden shifted to the future and the past, but not to this moment. That comes from From practice I have, at least at this moment, there's faith in my practice. There's faith in Zazen. In a few moments I might forget it, but right now it's... And so there we go is my question. In the past I've done things that have not been skillful that I regret. In the future I probably will as well. And I may suffer a lot and not find my way to practice or not knowing practicing. What about that? I would say that since you've done that in the past, all of those things, and every time you have rediscovered your faith, your connection to the present moment, the path, I think it is a reliable thing that you can

[43:34]

have trust in your practice and that you will at some point wake up and see, oh, there's a possibility of doing something otherwise. And then you'll take that step, that action, to do whatever it is, to settle on the moment, to say a kind word, to apologize, or to just sit down and be like, huh, I've got to sit with this now. That's what's calling. just need to set the fest and then see where you go from there. In other words, just one moment after the next. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for your help, Linda. Do non-Buddhists practice? Absolutely.

[44:35]

But they may not know it. They may call it something else. They may not. There were seven Buddhas before Buddha. This isn't the only... Buddhism is not the only location to practice. But how people practice, how they manifest it, that may or may not be the great road of Buddha ancestors, but is there practice for people? I think most of us had some kind of a practice that we maybe found for ourselves, or we found in organized religion, or somewhere in between, but this was the practice that enlivened us. Yeah, it seemed like these four Practice is the one that we have agency.

[45:37]

It's the one agency where there's action. And if there's no separation between these four things, then it's everything. And it's just practices. He could have written about any one of these four and could have meant the same thing as what he's saying about practice. Pause that myself. So it's everything. Our practice is really how we meet whatever it is. That's where we have the agency. We can be caught up in whatever it is. Arm flags and skill flags, whatever it is. Blind acts. That's where discerning mind is really important. Is this leading to freedom from suffering or is it leading to more suffering for myself and for others?

[46:41]

And when we see that, and we've made a vow to do otherwise, then, you know, practically speaking, so there's the nonsense. So this is really the absolute and the relative here. And they're not different and they're not the same. So in our practice, you know, when we think about practice as something we do, Yeah, there's some kind of sequence, this happened, that happened, although our brains move very fast, there's still like some tiny little synaptic jump that has to happen, so it's not quite instantaneous, but it's fast, but it can be fast, or we can persist and make it last a long time, or we can stay present and have it extend time. But you can't You know, it's not two, not one. They're absolute is absolute, relative is relative, and they're not separate.

[47:43]

I don't know if that's an answer in the heart of hearing. Thank you for your time. The thing that always drew me was beyond space and time. And I kind of realized that that's almost really key to the now, now, now, because that's where you connect, is beyond space and time. I don't know if I'm not trying to add to your lecture. I'm just trying to say that it's always happening. Because it's always happening, it's beyond space and time. Yes. So I turned it around so I could say it.

[48:49]

Yes. Dogen talks about linear time, like are you on time to zazen, that kind of time, and being time. Being time, his classical Uji, is one of the hardest. Because he's talking about being time, like being, not time, you think of it as going like this. He's talking about beyond time. I think we can touch it. We can taste it. We can maybe recognize it, the shadow of that, or maybe a full illumination of that. I always thought that the reason there are so many Buddhist books, especially Zen books, is because it's all... You can't talk about it. You can't express it. So let me try it with another example. This one's really resonating for me.

[49:53]

You just talked about cooking, so I'm going to talk about cooking now. You know, it's just... We keep trying to share the Buddha Dhamma. We keep trying to teach it. We keep trying to, you know, not just hold this jewel that we have tasted for ourselves. We want to know it better. So we keep trying words and phrases. And it's just play. None of them reach it. But we can really enjoy the dance together. Thank you. Thank you for your talk. Well, for me, I always felt like enlightenment and nirvana was one. I know you had different definitions of enlightenment. Some of them I see as somewhat different.

[50:54]

But the essence of enlightenment or the essence of nirvana Yeah, that's a better way to say it. The essence of nirvana, I think, is enlightenment. Yes. They're often, those words are often used interchangeably. But then I got curious about, well, why does Dogen say, aspiration practice, enlightenment nirvana? That's my question. He didn't have to do that. That's right. So, my sense is that I think he was really pointing to the bodhisattva vow again. but in a different way. He's saying, yes, there's freedom from hindrance. No, I take that back. I take that back. Forget that. I think he's just pointing to nirvana as, not as extinction and leaving, you know, leaving this realm where we don't have to deal with suffering, but

[51:56]

as this extended, not, or maybe I should say, I think it's the enlightenment. He doesn't want people to confuse it with a big opening experience. It's not just that. He's pointing back to the hindrances and to the Bodhisattva vow and to not trying to get away from anything. It's like, oh, we're letting go. Because so much of realizing nirvana is about letting go, letting go, letting go. That's my thought for now. But, you know, that's the wonderful thing about these teachings is that they continually unfold. I mean, within about a minute, I'm like, it's this. Nope, not. Try to run that simile out. Uh-uh. Fell off the cliff. So, Zodin used to say, I study to verify my practice. Not I study to get some knowledge or learn something, or fix something, or I'll be okay if I leave the entire ship against them.

[53:08]

But I study to verify my practice. How does that line up with my understanding? How does that line up with my practice? Well, there must be some reason he added forth so we can all ponder. Thank you. I

[53:53]

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