That's because it was off. Okay, let's start over. Let me just start over with the story. My father, a native of Fanyang, was dismissed from his official post and banished to be a commoner in Xinzhou in Guangdong. I was unlucky. My father died when I was very young. leaving my mother poor and miserable. We moved to Guangzhou and then were in very bad circumstances. I and Mrs. Le-Nin were selling firewood in the market one day when one of my customers ordered some to be bought. Upon delivery being made and payment received, I left the shop outside of which I found a man reciting a sutra. As soon as I heard the text of the Sutra, my mind at once became enlightened.

[01:03]

Thereupon, I asked the man the name of the book and was told that it was the Diamond Sutra, the Vajracetaka. I further inquired whence he came and why he recited this particular Sutra. He replied that he came from Dungshan Monastery in the Huangwe district of Jujo. that the abbot in charge of this temple was Hongjen, the fifth patriarch, and there were about 1,000 disciples under him. And when he went there to pay homage to the patriarch, or the ancestor, he attended lectures on this sutra. He said that His Holiness used to encourage the laity, as well as the monks, to recite this sutra, as by doing so, they might realize their own essence of mind and thereby reach Buddhahood directly. So, when he heard this, it fired his wayseeking mind.

[02:14]

And he decided that he had to go and encounter the fifth ancestor. And by good fortune, somehow mysteriously, he was given a hoard of coins that enabled his mother to live comfortably and for him to go make this long journey to the mountain. So he goes there and he says, I went to pay homage to the, asked where I came from and what I expected to get from him. I replied, I am a commoner from Xinjiao of Guangdong.

[03:16]

I have traveled far to pay you respect and I asked for nothing but Buddhahood. Small request. A native of Guangdong, A barbarian. How can you expect to be a Buddha? I replied, although there were northern men and southern men, north and south make no difference to their Buddha nature. A barbarian is different from your holiness physically, but there is no difference in our Buddha nature. He was going to speak further to me. But the presence of other disciples made him stop short. And he ordered me to go to work. And then Hunkin was rather audacious.

[04:17]

He said, may I tell your holiness, said I, that prajna, transcendental wit, often rises in my mind. When one does not go astray from one's own essence of mind, one may be called the field of merits, the field of blessings. I don't know what work your holiness would ask me to do. Pretty sharp. And Aung Jin said, you can see this is a sort of Shakespearean aside, this barbarian is too bright. go to the stable and speak no more. I then withdrew myself to the backyard and was told by a lay brother, lit firewood and pound rice. And so that's what he did. So he didn't ordain as a monk. He just went to the work area and worked for the temple.

[05:23]

And presumably, legendarily, illiterate. So then we have the famous poetry contest, which you've probably heard something about. So the fifth ancestor was trying to decide who would inherit his dharma as the sixth ancestor, and who would be the leader of the Sangha, who would literally inherit his robe, the robe and bowl handed down to him. He was the fifth ancestor after Bodhidharma. And so presumably this was Bodhidharma's robe and bowl. So the ancestor assembled all his disciples and said to them, the question of incessant rebirth is a momentous one.

[06:26]

Day after day, instead of trying to free yourself from this bitter sea of life and death, you seem to go after tainted merits, that is, merits that cause rebirth. Yet merits will be of no help if your essence of mind is... Go and seek prajna, wisdom, in your own mind, and then write me a verse about it. He who understands the essence of mind will be given the robe, the bowl, and the dharma, and I shall be the best ancestor. Go quickly. Delay not in writing this stanza, as deliberation is quite unnecessary and of no use. In other words, if you get it, you should be able to write it, by the way. The man who has realized the essence of mind can speak it at once, and as soon as he is spoken to about it, he cannot lose sight of it, even when engaged in battle.

[07:38]

So the disciples withdrew and said to one another, to concentrate our mind, to write the stanza and submit it. Since the ancestors, since the ancestors, The prize is bound to be won by Shen Shu, the head monk. And if we write it, it will only be a waste of energy. Why bother? Upon hearing this, all of them made up their minds not to write and said, why should we take the trouble? Lazy rice bags. Hereafter, we will simply follow Shenzhou's and look to him for guidance. Meanwhile, Shenzhou, speaking to himself, thought, considering I am their teacher, none of them will take part in the competition.

[08:44]

I wonder whether I should submit it to His Holiness. If I do not, if I don't do not, how can the ancestor know how deep or superficial my knowledge is. If my object is to get the Dharma, my motive is a pure one. If I were after the patriarchy, then it would be bad. In that case, my mind would be that of a whirling, and my action would amount to robbing the ancestor's holy seat. But if I do not submit the stanza, I shall never have a chance of getting the Dharma. Very difficult. So in front of that ancestor's hall, there were three corridors, and the walls were bare, and they were about to be painted by the court artist. When Shenshu, so Shenshu

[09:55]

composed his verse, and he made several attempts to submit it to the ancestor. But as soon as he kept going to the hall, and as soon as he did, he just got so anxious that he sweated all over. He couldn't screw up his courage to submit the verse. In the course of four days, he made altogether 13 attempts to do so. He was hardly tied up in a knot. Then he said to himself, it would be better for me to write on the wall of the corridor and let the ancestor see it for himself. In other words, he wouldn't put his name on it. He just would write it in a knot. If he approves, I shall come out and pay homage to him, tell him, that is done by me. But if he disapproves it, then I shall have wasted several years in this mountain, receiving homage from others that I by no means deserve."

[11:05]

So at 12 o'clock at night, he went secretly with a lamp to write the stanza on the wall. And his stanza read, Our body is the Bodhi tree and our mind a mirror bright. We wipe them hour by hour and let no dust alight. Our body is the Bodhi tree and our mind a mirror bright. Carefully, we wipe them hour by hour and let no dust alight. As soon as he wrote it, he left them into his room. When the ancestor, the ancestor quietly and secretly read it himself, and he already knew that Schindler entered the door of enlightenment, and that he had not known his essence of mind.

[12:13]

In the morning, he sent for the court artist, and went with him to the south corridor to have the walls painted. I am so sorry to have troubled you to come so far, he said to the artist. The walls need not to be painted now. It'd be better to leave the stanza here so that people may study it and recite it. If they put its teaching into practice, they will be saved from the misery in these evil these evil realms of existence. The merit gained by one who practices will be great indeed. And he then ordered incense to be burned and all his disciples to bow to it and recite it. After they had recited, exclaimed, well done. At midnight, the ancestor sent for Shen Shu to come to the hall.

[13:17]

and asked him whether he had written this stanza or not. Wow. I, replied Chen Xu, I dare not be so vain as to expect to become the ancestor, but I wish your holiness would kindly tell me whether my stanza shows the least grain of wisdom. The ancestor said, your stanza shows that you have not yet realized So far, you have reached the door of enlightenment, but you have not entered it. To seek for supreme enlightenment with such an understanding as yours can hardly be successful. You'd better go back and think it over for a couple of days and then write another verse. Senchu bowed and left. Two days later, it happened that a young boy who was passing the room where I was pounding rice, recited loudly the stanza written by Shen Shu.

[14:25]

As soon as I heard it, I knew at once that the composer of it had not realized the essence of mind, for although I had not been taught about it at the time, I already had a general idea of that. What stanza is that? I asked the boy. You barbarian, he replied, don't you know about it? The ancestor told his disciples that the question of incessant rebirth was a momentous one, and those who wish to inherit the role in the Dharma should write him a verse. Elder Shenshu wrote this formula on the wall, and the patriarch, the ancestor told us to recite it. He said that... Those who put its teaching into actual practice would attain great merit and be saved from the misery of being reborn in evil realms of existence. The boy.

[15:28]

Hey, I wish to recite a stanza myself so that I might have affinity with, recite the stanza too, so that I might have an affinity with the teaching in the future life. I also told him that although I had been pounding rice there, I had never been to the hall, and that would he show me the hall where the stanza was written. The boy took me there and asked him to read it to me, as I am illiterate. When he finished reading, I told him that I also had a stanza, and asked, Asked him to write it for me. Extraordinary indeed. That you could also compose a stanza? Don't despise a beginner, said I. If you're a seeker of supreme enlightenment, you should know that the lowest class may have the sharpest weight, while the highest may be in want and intelligence.

[16:37]

Okay, dictate your stanza, he said. Ah, I will take it down. Don't forget to deliver me, should you succeed in getting the Dharma. My stanza read, There is no bodhi tree, nor stand of mirror bright, since all is void, where can dust alight? There is no bodhi tree, nor stand of mirror bright, since all is void, Where can dust alight? When he had written this, all disciples and others who were completely surprised, filled with admiration, they said to one another, How wonderful! No doubt we should not judge people by appearance. How can it be that for so long we have made a bodhisattva incarnate?

[17:43]

work for us. He was overwhelmed with amazement. The ancestor took off his shoe and rubbed out the verse, erased it. For jealous ones, lest jealous ones should do the injury. He expressed the opinion which they took for granted. The author of this stanza had also not yet realized the essence of mind. The next day, the ancestor secretly came to the room where the rice was pounded. Seeing I was working there with a stone pestle, he said, a seeker of the path risks his life for the Dharma. Should he not do so? Then he asked, is the rice ready? Ready long ago, I replied. only waiting for the sieve.

[18:44]

He knocked the arms with his stick and left. Knowing what his message meant, in the third watch of the night, I went to his room. Using the robe as a screen so that none could see us, he expounded the Diamond Sutra to me. When he came to this sentence, One should use one's mind in such a way that it will be free from any attachment. I at once became thoroughly enlightened and realized that all things in the universe are the essence of mind itself. Thus, to the knowledge of no one, the Dharma was transmitted to me at midnight. And consequently, I became the inheritor of the teaching of this as well as the robe and the begging bowl.

[19:50]

Hong Chen said, you are now the sixth patriarch. Take good care of yourself and deliver as many sentient beings as possible. Spread and preserve the teaching and don't let it come to an end. Take note of my verse. And so now that Hong Jin says the verse. Sentient beings who sow the seeds of enlightenment in the field of causation will reap the fruit of Buddhahood. Inanimate objects, void of Buddha nature, sow and reap not. He then said to Winnen, As the road may cause for, give cause for dispute, you are the last one to inherit it. Should you hand it down, your life will be in imminent danger. Now leave this place as quickly as you can, lest someone should do you harm.

[20:55]

The fifth ancestor accompanied me to Chujang, ordered me into a boat as he did the rowing himself i asked him to sit down and let me handle the oar it is only right for me to carry you across he said an allusion to the sea of birth and death which one has to go before the shore of nirvana is reached and so he went into the mountains and stayed there for quite a number of years as a lay person living among hunters in the forest, serving as their cook, and letting the Dharma cook in him. So that's, you know, the first part of his biography.

[22:08]

my own take on this story. We'll talk about this a little more. The Platform Sutra itself is a kind of political argument for... It's an argument that took place at a time when the Zen lineages were being constructed in China. Lineages were in the Confucian context of Buddhism that was emerging in the early Tang Dynasty. So this is about year 600. And they were not so important, not so measured in India.

[23:09]

But the values of lineage and the Confucian values were really strong and continue to be. So, actually, in the generation, or two generations, generation two after Lineng, there was a Is this working? Yes. There was a sort of a contesting of lineage. And so actually in southern Buddhism, Uyeng was the sixth ancestor. In northern Buddhism, northern school of Buddhism, Shenshu, the other, the head monk, was the sixth ancestor. It happens for whatever reasons that Wienang's lineage became the root of our living Zen tradition, which evolved a number of schools of Zen and ultimately to

[24:32]

De Soto and Rinzai schools, which persisted today, and also the Obaku school still exists, but it's very small. And the lineage that Shenshu seemed to have died out after a number of generations, at least as far as we know. My take on those two verses. Let me read the verses again, okay? Verse says, our body is the Bodhi tree, and our mind a mirror bright, carefully we wipe them hour by hour and let no dust light.

[25:40]

That's the side of our practice that is about cultivation. That's the side by which we are constantly working on ourselves. We are looking at the infirmities and distortion and clearing them and cleaning them away and rolling them back so they're not, so we're not caught by them. Winning's verse was, there is no boat nor stand of mirror bright since all is void. Where can the dust alight? So that's the emptiness side. That's the side of the Diamond Sutra, which is one of the earliest of the Prajaparamita texts, of which the Heart Sutra that we chant is in line.

[26:57]

You know, it speaks to, if Shen Shu's verse speaks to the relative practice of cultivation, Kui Neng's verse speaks to the absoluteness of emptiness. So my take is, versus fit like tongue and groove. That they complete each other. And that we can't, that both of them are pivotal aspects of our understanding and our practice. So some years ago, I wrote a novel, which is metaphorically sitting in a drawer upstairs.

[28:11]

And one of the pieces of this novel is a kind of extended biography of Wiening, which was really fun to write. Shortly after he leaves the monastery and heads into the mountain, he finds a hermitage to settle into. And he settles there. And one day, Shenshu shows up. And together, they're alone. at this hermitage and they lived together for months working to grow food and take care of their living space and enacting the complementarity of

[29:28]

their practices, the wholeness that's articulated by those two verses together. It's very sweet to imagine, actually. And that the, whatever conflict or contest is hinted at here, for them, was resolved because they were both on the dharma. And so there was a practice of mutual appreciation. So I'm going to stop there. I've been going on for a while. You may have some questions or thoughts relating to this before we go on. Floor is open here.

[30:31]

And if you are online, have a question or a comment, please raise your digital hand. So anything on your minds. Yeah, John. I'm a little hesitant to say this because I'm afraid of it. I've always had the same reaction to the two verses, and the first time I've read the Platform Sutra, it's like, wait a minute, the other guy was right. Why is everyone acting like you got it wrong? and Queen Anne came in and just blew him away.

[31:33]

You know, if you take away Shenshu's verse, it's just nihilism. I mean, it's not even interesting. It's just, oh, it's all . And I think there's a tendency in these stories sometimes to, and here I recognize also that there was the polemical aspect with Shenhui and exalt the southern school over the northern. Shenhui was a disciple of Ueneng's in the next generation and purportedly he was the assembler of what we have is this text, the platform sutra. And, um, but the, this, this sort of exaltation of Huyang's verse at the expense of Shan Huy's, uh, Shan Xu's, um, um, doesn't seem to fit with our practice, how we do it now.

[32:57]

nor does it even seem to fit with the portion of the Platform Sutra that's the sermon. And it has always rubbed me the wrong way. I don't have a question here. I'm kind of venting because I've always been a little bit put out by the first portion of the Platform Sutra. useful in my life to look at the places where I'm put out. Because those places, it's like there's something alive there, you know, that irritant. There's something going on for me when I, you know, when I feel that. And I find that that's encouraging.

[34:04]

For example, you know, I initially came to practice in the summer of 1968, and I wasn't, I was too young, I wasn't able to sustain it. And shortly after, I had some friends who were practicing with Chögyung Trungpa, a great sort of crazy wisdom Tibetan teacher. And I would, you know, these stories would filter out, filter back about kind of drunken parties and orgies and, you know, all kinds of weird stuff. And I kept telling myself, is this Buddhism? Is this Buddhism? It was something felt off to me about it. And I came in later years to realize that just that irritant was provided soil for way-seeking mind to at least for the seed to continue to live.

[35:18]

And I think that that's a way that we can look at this text. There are other elements that are possibly troubling in this, but it really is an argument of one school over the other. But what is it that we take away beyond that? You know, just that Chen Shu's verse and that this story has survived is a way of validating the verse itself and the practice that's within it. That's the way I take it anyway. Other thoughts?

[36:24]

Anything out there? Yeah. Thank you. If the first verse was not the verse, then why did he have everybody reciting and they just be liberated? Slide it to the left. Maybe. No. Because I think he had people recited precisely because it pointed people towards a rigorous practice. You know, it wasn't the full manifestation of enlightenment. He said, you're at the door of enlightenment. That's what he said to him. It's, you know, and if we're at the door, it's a lot closer to step over the threshold.

[37:25]

And I think, you know, He wasn't, Hongzhan was, was paying his respects to that. He was being respectful to his student. But there was also something of substance in that verse that he knew was going to be useful to people, particularly, you know, you have this whole very lazy, discouraging attitude that the monks had. And this was kind of inclining them towards something more vigorous, right? Kind of start here. Yeah. And then, you know, you might, it may not be steps and stages, you know, but if you can reach this door, you're a lot closer to the threshold. Yeah, Gimpo. My question is also kind of like Kabir's, it's also a point of or something I'm uncomfortable with is this time hearing the story, it really seems like the fifth patriarch is like playing some game on a higher level than he's not.

[38:41]

I mean, he's really taking the skillful memes thing a bit far in my opinion. It seems like he's doing, he's operating more in the shadows than we like to think of, you know, teachers doing. And I wonder why, I'm not exactly sure. So what do you mean by in the shadows? Well, in many instances in the story, he's saying something different than, than he later claims to be true. You know, he sees the poem, he assesses that it's not great, but then he tells everyone to do it anyways. You know, it's like, this is just my reading. Maybe this is not, you know, like correct, but it just seems like he's not being upfront with people about what's going on. You know, he transmits the robe and then says, get out of here.

[39:43]

You know, he doesn't seem to be out in front of the situation. Just kind of- But one of the, I mean, one of the things that unfolds in the text as it goes on, is this tension between the sudden and gradual school. And nominally, the sixth ancestor is the ancestor of the sudden school. And in literature that followed that, including his dialogue with his disciple, Chingyuan. They're taught a practice that has no steps and stages.

[40:52]

And one of the things that the six ancestors says is that for the sharp-witted, there's the sudden way. For those who are less, who are more dull-witted, if you will, and I'm using his words, not my words, that the... of steps and stages may be necessary. And I think that the fifth ancestor, at least at the point at which Shenshu wrote his poem, was surmising, well, we've got a monastery full of people who don't quite get it. And so they have to do this gradual cultivation.

[41:56]

And then this illiterate lay worker shows up who gets it, who has insight into emptiness. And that's the person that he chooses. And, you know, it's also really interesting in kind of the social sense. And we see this in the Bodhidharma. that there's jealousy. The monks were jealous. They were liable to do him harm. And when he goes, he's followed. When he goes into the mountains, he's followed one of the monks who wants to steal the rope and bowl. And he confronts Wineng, and Wineng says, go ahead, you can have them.

[43:12]

But he can't pick them up. They're too heavy. So you have these mythological or fantastic stories So you have, there's a, you know, a cultural context for this of people being human, people being jealous, people being harsh. I guess I just kind of have my reservations about like the whole poetry contest in the first place. Like it seems like situation that ultimately causes quite a bit of conflict. And I don't, I don't really feel like he was doing it you know, without thinking that maybe something like that is going to happen. That's probably true. Also, you know, did this happen? Who knows? Weeneng is a, Weeneng and Shenshu are figures who appear in, you know, in the records from at least from the middle.

[44:26]

So we feel that they're real, but whether they manifested the particular characteristics that they're given in these stories, we don't know. The thing about me is, it's like I was saying to Jonathan, it's like, how do they work on you? And again, our discomfort with these stories, there's something useful in that. And I'm not entirely comfortable with it. And there are other parts of this text that I'm not entirely comfortable with. But there are things that are really wonderful. What time is it?

[45:28]

8.10. 8.10. Can I have a moment? Yeah. But I also appreciate the fact that he didn't stick to his tongue and say the first verse was correct and just go with a barbarian note. But he did see that even a barbarian or somebody that can't read or write has the potential and made him the sixth ancestor. So for him to kind of come back and realize that, and grab the shoe and wipe it. So that also shows that he realized that there's potential on everybody, regardless of where you come from. Hozom, we're having a hard time hearing. Yeah, so this is intense. I'm just forgetting this. In 732, Shen Wei, who was Wenying's disciple, had a conference.

[46:48]

And in the conference, he attacked the Northern school, including Shen Shu and Pu Qi. And he accused Pu Qi, who was the disciple of Shen Shu, of sending in 715 to cut the head off of the mummy of Buening. Buening, there's a mummy of Buening and it still exists. Evidently, according to the story, Shenshu's lineage sent heirs to cut off the head of the mummy. This is like, really? pretty funky stuff, you know. And, you know, what I've written in notes is this struggle keeps arising with violence through this story.

[47:59]

And these threads of violence, jealousy, attempted murder, and so on, by surprise because we have this naive notion that enlightenment should create sort of a circle of peace all around itself. But the peace that we're talking about is really finding one's balance in the midst of all kinds of really difficult circumstances, including violence and war. And we can see that that's true in our world. Settleness was able to encompass the afflictive emotions and the violence that was all around him, even when he was threatened by assassination.

[49:01]

So that's really powerful to me. The structure, there's a number of chapters too, which we're not gonna have to understand at all. There's a biography, there's a chapter on Prajna, there's a chapter on Samadhi and Prajna, There's a chapter on jhana or meditation, which is interesting because no meditation instruction. He doesn't really ever communicate what the practice is. I think it really falls very much on the emptiness side.

[50:02]

And the articulation of the practice is something that had to... in subsequent generations. And there's a, in the middle of the, in the very middle of the sutra, there's an ordination ceremony. This is his ordination. When he arrives at, I think at Sao Chi, The abbot there recognizes that he is the sixth ancestor, but he's still a layperson. And he wants him to teach, but he says, why don't I ordain you before you take the platform?

[51:07]

The platform of the Platform Sutra is the teaching platform. And so that's where Winning actually receives his ordination, which is interesting because our lineage, so our lineage with a lay person. And only later in life does he receive ordination. The ordination ceremony, when you read through it, it's really familiar. It's the same form as our ordination. It begins with repentance of karma and with refuge in the bodhisattva vows and the precepts. And for me,

[52:09]

One of the pivotal things, teachings that I take away from the Platform Sutra that really always stays with me is the first, well actually all of the Bodhisattva vows. There's a little twist on the Bodhisattva vows that we find in the Platform Sutra that to me is tremendously useful and instructive. So the vow we have here is, beings are numberless, I vow to awaken with them. And it's kind of a softening of, beings are numberless, I vow to save them. Saving is not necessarily, sometimes saving is a little uncomfortable to us because it kind of reminds us of salvation and other things from our Abrahamic tradition not be entirely comfortable with.

[53:29]

So here we say beings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. We name first Bodhisattva vow is Sentient beings of my mind are numberless. I vow to save them. To me, opens a big door. Sentient beings of my mind. So what does that mean? You know, residence dinner, I've been I've been seeing a psychotherapist lately, which is really useful. And his methodology is something called internal family systems. Is anyone familiar with that? Internal family systems is like you're dealing with the sentient beings of your mind, right?

[54:34]

And those beings are At one point, they're beings that you were at some point in the past, or they're beings that respect you, that serve you, or that served you in the past, but maybe don't serve you so much anymore. But for me, the way I extend this is I look at the notion of rebirth in this context. So sentient beings in my mind, you know, there's a five-year-old me, there's a 15-year-old me, there's a me that really feels like I'm 75, which is bizarre and sometimes anxiety-producing. There's joyous me, there's hurt me, there's angry me.

[55:39]

There's all of these sentient beings of mind that are called forth by causes and conditions that I encounter. And there are various theories or doctrines in Buddhism about rebirth. What I was taught, at least in this school, was that and certainly from Sojin and others, is that we're looking at moment-to-moment rebirth. That according to the conditions, the subjective conditions of our lives, we may... You know, in the Buddhist cosmology, there are six realms. There's human realm. the deva or god realm, fighting demons, hungry ghosts, dwellers, and animals.

[56:50]

I think that's right. That's six. And so it's like, those are realms in which one can be reborn. And each one of them, each realm has its own set of characteristics, but really they're limitless realms. Numberless. And when certain internal seeds are watered, then that being is born. The vow of being in my mind is to meet those beings with unconditional love and acceptance. That does not mean you allow them to run the show. Sometimes you have to be fierce or strong with them. You know, if your child is about to jump off the curb into traffic, you pull her back.

[58:01]

You know, that's an act of love. It's not an act of... So... all of these different ways of responding and relating to the sentient beings of your mind. And at the same time, now, everybody I'm looking at is a sentient being of my mind. And I'm a sentient being of yours. We are not limited, we're not confined to this envelope of skin and bone. We are connected to each other in ways that we don't understand and to everything. And that is also a function of mind.

[59:08]

So that's been a really powerful teaching to me, drawn from the Platform Sutra. Let me stop there and take any thoughts or questions about that. Guys have been very quiet out there in Zoom land. Anything on your mind? Can you summarize? We're here. Yeah, he can't. I don't think he can hear us. Would he notice if you were to write something in the chat? Deliberative night. No, he isn't. I don't believe he can see the chat either. Yeah. So when you say the sentient beings are my mind, is he referring, you know, Jonathan was saying all about emptiness, right?

[60:20]

So is he saying that sort of like everything is like a projection? Other minds do not exist inherently from their own side? Well, I think, you know, one of the things that, as I was studying this, there's also a In the midst of this, there's also a doctrinal contest or contexts. If we were really studying it in depth, we'd have more opportunity to get into. So, in a sense, we names verse, we names position, coming from the prajna-paramita or the majamaka perspective, the emptiness perspective. And the other dharmic perspective that is, that is, you can read in this, is the perspective of the mind-only school, of the Yogacara school, which is,

[61:39]

which is basically saying, talking about how everything we perceive is a function of mind. And so at different points in this text, both of these things come up. They come up a lot more in this version. What's interesting, so there's two major versions. One was, this is the one that was more widely distributed, more familiar. And then in the early 20th century, they discovered an earlier version in Sun Wong Caves in Western China. And it's shorter. and it's somewhat simpler, and doesn't have some of the doctrinal complexity that this does.

[62:44]

And it's really interesting to read them both. But here, I think that the Yogacharya elements kind of show up a bit more, if that makes sense. And this is a Yeah, this is an interesting sort of dialectic between the two of them. We did a little study of Yogacara. I keep coming back to it. It's really intriguing me and it makes a lot of sense to me as a perspective that is really honoring the nature of mind and the function of all one's conscious processing.

[63:46]

I'm looking at the chat. So am I not loud enough? Is that what someone there can tell me? you're loud you just can't hear us no i can't hear you uh now i can hear you um but i'm not i haven't been seeing any raised hands so that's all okay um so any other thoughts or questions moment i have a question yeah this is more of a historical question So when did Shenshou's line die out and when the Platform Sutra, since it's actually written later, I mean, it seems like the textual strategy, though, legitimized one line over like the Lotus Sutra to employ all these strategies to justify, you know, the high Han tradition.

[64:57]

The parallel is kind of interesting to employ these strategies to kind of rewrite history in a way. Well, I think that I'm not sure. Let me just see if I have. Excuse me, Hozan, can you repeat that question? We couldn't hear it. Yes. The question was, when did Shen Shu's Lyme die out? Is that right? Was there another? I just wondered if the... I think the platform switch was actually recorded later, after it made up some time. Oh, yes. And so it seems like there may be a strategy to legitimize his life. No, that's what I was saying that, yeah. Yeah. So, Hsu lived from 606 to 706. And then, right. And then his disciple,

[65:59]

His next disciple was Puji, who I mentioned before, who supposedly sent the monks. And identified with the Lankavatara school. The Lankavatara school is a Yogacara school, which makes sense when you think about the verse that Chen Chu wrote. So far, you with me? Well, I don't know anything about the Lankavatara school. is a key text of the Yogacara early mind only school. We then live from 638 to 713. Let's see. So there was this conference. that happened in 732 that I mentioned that was organized by Shen Wee, which was designed to promote the Southern School.

[67:17]

And then there was a rebellion 755, 56. And after that, Shenhui was very prominent for doing a lot of ordination and selling ordination certificates and raising money for the emperor by kind of guaranteeing his supremacy over the northern school. But the Northern School is very much alive. There's a wonderful book about the Northern School by the scholar William Bodiford. It's very rich. So I wanted to tell one more story about a coming from the Platform Sutra that there's a chapter called Samadhi and Prajna.

[68:21]

And historically has different stages in meditation. Samadhi is concentration and prajna is wisdom or enlightenment. I must have been about 20 years ago or so. a couple of us organized a dialogue between Robert Aitken Roshi, with whom I was quite close, and Soji. And they had a good relationship. And so we had this thing called a Zadankai, which is like a Zen dialogue between... serious practitioners.

[69:26]

It ended up being very uncomfortable for a number of reasons, which I won't go into. But at one point, you know, Aiken Roshi was fiercely questioning Sojin that, tell me about Samadhi and Praja. What's Samadhi and what's Praja? And Sojin was not, he sort of circled around it, but he didn't come to anything. He was being confronted. It was very uncomfortable, uncomfortable for me. And the next morning, he called me on the phone, Sojin. just, you know, from downstairs to upstairs. And I was very, I said, Come down here. What have I done?

[70:36]

And, you know, I came into his office, which is now my office, and he had the platforms which open to this project chapter in the platforms. See, see. And in the Platform Sutra, Ubi Nying says, Samadhi and Prajna are inseparable. Samadhi is like the lamp and Prajna is the light. Without the light, the lamp has no function. without the lamp, there could be no light. And that was a very powerful moment for me. That was a moment of sort of confirmation of who my teacher was.

[71:43]

Really wonderful. So I just thought I would tell you this story. We're almost done, but I see Paolo, has his hand up would you like to ask something uh yes um if i can real quick i think it might be interesting um to know that in the in the tibetan lineage um madameka also the debate and the question in the end isn't really because they don't disagree with the mind only school in that way except in the one place where they do which which is where they say well the mind only will say that in in the end the universe is of mind only. In Mindyamika, they magically take it one step further and where you end up with emptiness. That in the end, the universe is empty even of mind. Yeah, I think that these are, they're just looking at things from slightly different angles.

[72:50]

They're looking at the, They're looking at the jewel from a different facet, at a different facet, but it's the same jewel. So we're just about now, I think, what time is it? Okay. Any last thoughts or questions? Anyone who hasn't spoken? Anyone out there who hasn't spoken? None of you? Well, actually, Powell spoke. Going once. Going twice. Sold. So next week, we're going to look at the wonderful record of Dunk Shot. Tozan Ryokai in our lineage, who is one of the, one of the nominal founders of, he's the, that's the To in the So To school.

[74:03]

And he's a fierce and pithy figure and we'll have fun exploring him. If you come up with, if you have any questions that occur to you between time, please just email me and I'll just respond. And also to say that Saturday, it's the day after tomorrow, we're going to, if weather permits, which I hope it will, we're going to have an ashes interment set. for a portion of Sojin Roshi's ashes. And we're going to inter them beneath his memorial stone out back. And that'll be after lecture, we bet 1130, 1145.

[75:06]

They're all with your masks on, you're welcome to come and participate. So with that, let's chant. our version of the four vows, and say goodnight. to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurfaceable. Three times we try that beings are numberless. I bow to awaken.

[76:09]

Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to become it. Beings are numberless. I vow to awaken with them. why don't you all stand up

[77:20]

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