Hi, Julie. So welcome, everybody. And I wanted to say thank you to Ross. He'll be our tech host tonight. So we're going to spend three. Thinking and talking about Dogen's eight awakenings of great beings. Hachi Dainin Gaku. This was his last teaching in 1253. And it was also the last teaching. And it was intended to complete 100 fascicle Shobogenso. Dogen only made it through, I think this one is 95. While I was preparing for these classes, I learned that the teaching of Dogen's is often apparently given at the bedside of those who are dying in Japan.

[01:09]

I thought that was really interesting and kind of inspiring. My feeling is that this teaching coming at the end of Dogen's life is really succinct and approachable teaching. He wants us to consider the possibility we all have, you know, to be free from limits that we impose on our thoughts and our behavior. He wants us available to us all, no matter who we are, even who we think we are. So I kind of see it as his practical advice about how to live our lives. You know, ordinary human beings. So I sent you five. But it's not really necessary to read them all unless you want to. I wanted to point out the differences in the word that's used.

[02:11]

Eight awakenings, eight truths, eight realizations, eight awarenesses. Even read a translation that read. The eight awarenesses of adults. How to be an adult that's waking up, growing up, you know, awakening to. Original nature. In other words, I think it's like. Say to ourself, this very being is Buddha. You know, not in a puffed up way, but as a way to take our path. As Zen students. Seriously. I like the word awakening myself more, although I'll try to use some of the other ones. I like that word because it feels like there's some movement or action or activity in it. You may like one of the others more.

[03:13]

Whatever words get at the meaning for each of us and helps us to relate to it. You know, that's a good. So I want to say something about the title. And then I'll go on to the first awakening and I'll stop after that for your comments or insights or sharing or questions, whatever you might want to say. I've asked to turn off the group chat box, but we'll have time for discussion. Ross, you want to say something? I don't know how to turn out the group chat, so we'll just trust people don't get involved. Don't chat in the box. Don't chat in the box. But we will be stopping two different times, so hoping that we'll have plenty of time for discussion. Yeah, a couple more things. Your voice is kind of going in and out, which I think is maybe you're kind of moving away and closer to the computer. So if you're steady there, I think your voice will be consistent.

[04:17]

How's that? Better? Sounds good so far. And lastly, if people mute themselves, then we won't have extraneous sound coming from people's homes. So you can unmute to talk, but if people mute themselves, it'll be safer for us all. Thank you. Thank you. So we'll stop after I talk a bit about the . And then we'll go to number two, and then we'll have time again for more discussion. And I'm really interested in how people relate to these, you know, how we all view the purpose of them in our life or how we might practice with them, how we do practice with them. Now that we're studying them in our daily life and also in our Zen training. Next week, we'll do the the middle three. And then on the final week, we'll do the last three.

[05:17]

So in the title, there's the Eight Awakenings of Great Beings or Great Humans. It might be easy to read that title and think, oh, that's not me, that Dogen is talking about other people or become actually, but not us. We could read through, I think, the entire fascicle with that as a kind of undercurrent that he's talking about someone other than us. And I want to encourage us all to really drop that idea tonight and embrace that he means us. Us about us. And my feeling is that that has to do with what he means by the word great. Not like famous or remarkable or amazing because that way of thinking about great pushes it away from who we are here right now.

[06:23]

So my feeling is that great here connects more to our viewpoint. Which in our practice, if we're willing, is always expanding. You know, that our viewpoint has the. of being limitless. Not that it is always, but that there's always that possibility for us to touch. The root M-A-G-N, magn, in some English words like magn, means great. And it's also in the word magnify. And magnify is about making something bigger, right? Expanding, seeing something by expanding it. So we can use that image to remember that that's what we're doing in Zen practice.

[07:26]

We're expanding the view of the small self by experiencing the lens, you could say, of big mind that's widening our view. Think about that image. Dogen doesn't say eight awakenings of good human beings. Good is OK, but what does he mean by great? Well, my feeling is he's tying great to his encouragement to practice fully. All of practice trains us to do, to step outside of our cultural comfort zones, you know, to make a wholehearted effort in each activity that we meet. To practice doing one thing at a time. You know, in this world that we live in, that's full of multitasking.

[08:28]

To practice and trust the value of repetition. To practice doing what we do with care, you know, and attention, even though we make mistakes and keep making mistakes. To practice giving and receiving correction. To keep an even pace and not be in a hurry. And to return again and again to Zazen. So Sojin Roshi passed training to us, right? And we all practice this way. To my mind, this is being a great human being. And this is us. Ron, could you wait until we get a flip a bit further on? So Uchiyama Roshi says that the word Dainan in Hachi Dainan Gaku means true adult or Bodhisattva.

[09:34]

And he says, you know, so many people grow up to be adults, but they never mature to adulthood. so they don't behave as adults in their lives. And he says that the Bodhisattva is the one who sees the world through adult eyes and whose actions are the actions of a true adult. So. Eight and Dainan meaning true adult and Gaku meaning something like study of or learning about. So something like. eight ways of studying about or learning about being the true adults. So I'm going to read you the eight awakenings and then go right into the first one. The first one is having few desires.

[10:37]

The second one is knowing how much is enough. or being satisfied. The third one is enjoying tranquility. Number four, exerting diligent effort. Number five, not neglecting mindfulness. Number six, body. Number seven, cultivating wisdom. And number eight, not indulging in idle chatter. So Dogen starts with the first with a little preface. He says, all Buddhas are great beings. Things practice is called the eight awakenings. Practicing these awakenings is the basis for Nirvana. This is the last teaching of our original teacher, Shakyamuni Buddha, which he gave on the night he entered Paranirvana.

[11:39]

So. We great beings were practicing these awakenings as kind of the basis, he says, or the core or the heart of Nirvana. And Sojin Roshi used to say that Nirvana is just simply the natural mind that's present when we let go of obstructions, when we let go of hindrances of greed, ill will and delusion. And in fact, I heard him say that the literal meaning of Nirvana is. And I kind of like that word. I just moved this plant in my garden here at our home, and I rather carefully uprooted it because it wasn't happy in that spot. And I moved it to another place in the garden where it may have a better life. Or I hope it will thrive with more sunlight.

[12:45]

and more space. So nirvana may be something like that, uprooting obstacles that hinder us, moving them to their proper place and relationship in our life, you know, by practicing these awarenesses. So the first awareness. The first awakening is to have few desires. Know that people who have many desires intensely seek for fame and gain. Therefore, they suffer a great deal. Those who have few desires do not seek for fame and gain and are free from them. They are without troubles. Having few desires is itself worthwhile.

[13:48]

It's even more so as it creates various merits. Those who have few desires need not flatter to gain others' favor. Those who have few desires are pulled by their senses. They have a serene mind and do not worry because they're satisfied with what they have and do not lack do not have a sense of lack. Those who have few desires experience nirvana. Few desires. In the Nierman translation, he says that having little desire as not going after things that we already haven't already experienced. So sometimes we don't have. or haven't done is better than what we have or haven't done. But Dogen says, look at what we have.

[14:50]

Do I need more? And what exactly is more? What's our experience of feeling that we don't lack anything we need to be without that feeling that something is missing? What is it that's missing? One time when I was assisting some new cooks in the kitchen every day during a five-day sashim, people kept coming in and whispering to me that they were sorry that I was missing time. But I didn't really know what I was missing. I was practicing in the kitchen. You know, the experience was full. But after several people came in and asked me the same question, I wondered, what am I missing? Am I missing something? So the Shuso ceremony, I asked the Shuso, what had I missed by being in the kitchen for five days? And the Shuso promptly and wisely answered, you didn't miss a thing.

[15:56]

You know, I think a real beauty of Zen practice teaches us to apply ourselves to each. situation one by one. And a full life experience is right there. Nothing missing. We all have that experience in Zen practice. So. Having few desires is really the central teaching of Buddha, you know, that we suffer because of our endless desires. And so Dogen says the way to meet that is to limit our desires. Her desire characterized as a fever of unsatisfied longing, you know, grabbing for something. We just have to have it, we think. And then we think that when we get what we want, we'll feel better or we'll feel good or we'll feel position or more peaceful.

[17:05]

or more like other people. But we know it doesn't really work that way. Getting something we desire can just lead to the next desire, more and more wanting or what we got. It's not that desire is a bad thing. It's not. We know it's human to have desires. And it's useful for us. And Dogen doesn't say, having no desires. So how do we decide what desires is all about? Uchiyama Roshi describes what he calls literally opening the hand of thought. Perhaps some of you have read his book. It says opening ourselves. right up to what's happening right now.

[18:07]

We make up illusions and then we get lost in what we just made up and what we think we desire. He says the only way to wake up is to literally open, you know, this hand. That it's the thoughts that are the source of our illusions about what we think we want. He says when we become aware and we just let things be, then the illusions that create those desires can disappear on their own. That's how he describes the way of. So I want to read you a little bit of what of his words. The activities in our everyday lives are clearly the result of chasing after ideas, causing vivid lifelike images to become fixed in our mind and then giving more and more weight to these fixed desires until we finally get carried away by them.

[19:17]

It would be even more accurate to say that ordinary flung about by desire without even knowing it. Almost all people in societies throughout the world today are carried away by desire. This is precisely why our zazen comes to have such a great significance. When we wake up during zazen, we are truly forced to experience the fact that all the things we develop in our thoughts vanish in an instant. Despite the fact that we almost always stress the content of our thoughts, When we wake up, we wake up to the reality and make this reality our center of gravity. So she says when we get this in Buddhism, because we think that we have to cut off all desire.

[20:26]

in order to be free, but that's not quite right. So he uses the phrase wrongly placed desire. And he says that when we turn desire towards practice, it becomes then it's not so loaded with worry or fear or this feeling of missing something. We do have desires, but we can learn not to be pulled around by them. So I think Sashin is a great place to consider having few desires. We're given everything we need. You know, a seat, a schedule, food, drinks, rest, zazen, kinyin. And we're told to lower our eyes. This allows us to be right. We're not looking around to see who we like or who we don't like or what new person is there.

[21:28]

And looking around helps us to support. It supports limiting our desires. We can experience more clearly who we are. We keep returning to Zazen, to our breath and posture. We put our attention. on this present moment. And when we forget to do that, we just return. So it's pretty simple and pretty hard to do continuously. Dogen says that those who have little desire do not seek for fame and gain. They're free from such such troubles. To my mind, Sojin Roshi was a model, still is a good role model in this way. No interest in fame or gain. He did a lot to take care of the practice, to encourage us to be available to us.

[22:32]

He was really rooted in continuous practice. And he wasn't really influenced by what people thought about him. He was steady and dependable and dedicated. He didn't lecture us to make us feel better. He didn't worry about whether or not we liked what he said. He was thinking kind of about the situation at hand, right? How he might attend to that. What might be needed. And he expressed himself in a way that was well, wholehearted. He was firm, but he was fully himself. So the practice worked through him. Practice not to what it might bring him, some fame or gain. I never heard him say the words, my students, and he'd never really concerned himself about where or how to get students.

[23:37]

So that's kind of like the total confidence of Zen practice in a person's life. I want to read you one line from something. Trungpa Rinpoche says about desire. This is from a book called The Mishap Lineage. He says there's a difference between desiring to be more aware to be more aware. If you're just willing, it's very straightforward. But if you desire to be aware, if you're trying to be aware, if you're trying to reach some degree of reference point, that seems to be problematic.

[24:41]

So. Sojin Roshi was a teacher that understood the difference between desiring to be more aware and being willing to be more aware. The being willing, I think, really helped him kind of pare it down. Having few desires, no interest in fame or gain. Suzuki Roshi says that the purpose of our practice is to be free, to free our self from our small self. The small self that has so many desires. And he says that because of having so many desires, we limit ourself. We restrict ourself, but we go ahead. So we blame a situation around us. situations we don't like. So he tells the story of the famous Zen master Chang Sha.

[25:54]

Maybe you know this story. Chang Sha was called Big Lion because he was apparently a powerful teacher. Went out of the monastery and he was strolling around the mountain. And when he came back, the monastic training leader asked him, where have you been? And he said, I've been strolling around the mountain. And Suzuki was talking about his own practice. Strolling around means you have no particular intention of going to some special place. You see something and you want to find out something interesting, you'll go that way. You know, you'll pass many beautiful places. come back, you might come back, but there's no particular purpose of walking. So he says the story means that we can enjoy our life free from desire.

[26:57]

We don't have to be restricted. The mind can be free. That's why he said. I'm strolling around. Suzuki Roshi says we should not be caught by anything. And until we have that kind of strength or freedom, we should practice hard, practice really hard, not chase after worldly freedom, but find freedom from our small desires or from fame or from success in our regular, ordinary lives. That's enough to keep us all busy for a long, long time. Right. So I think this is a good place to stop. And I'm as I said, I'm interested in your your insights, your.

[28:01]

You've read the translation and certainly if you have questions, other people can also chime in. So Ross is going to. call on people, and I think you can either raise your hand like this or your digital hand. And Ron, did you still have a question or comment? You can unmute Ron. Yeah, right at the very beginning when you said what is a great one, I think that I read meaning that someone who has actually had these eight realizations could be called a great one. That's how I read it. What do you think about that? I think that's a variation of what I said, isn't it? I mean, we are practicing with these realizations, and I think these realizations come up in every single one of us, even if it's just in a moment.

[29:11]

And I don't think it's like that you get them all and then you reach a certain point. Do you? Yeah, I think a realization is a realization. You don't just forget about it. You can have a little blip in your mind, but I wouldn't call that a realization. Maybe it's an opening. But a realization is you embody it. You take it in. It's yours. Don't you think we do that in Zen practice? I don't know. Yeah, I think I see it. I mean, I see what you're saying, but I don't see how different what you're saying is from me. That's why I raised my hand, because your words are fresh. I don't have a feeling about that.

[30:12]

Ron, would you go over that again? Maybe a little more succinctly, what you're saying? Sounds like Susan's saying. Well, I don't remember exactly what Susan said, so I can't, I don't want to say something that's inaccurate about her. What I meant was, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say maybe Susan can then. Yeah, yeah, okay. But I think you should, go ahead, Ron, just finish what you were going to say. Well, my feeling is that this title means that A great one is somebody who's had these eight realizations and not just as a blip, but as really, really realized and can be it what they've realized. That doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean it's perfect. But for the most part, they've actually had this kind of realization and it's not just a blip and it goes away.

[31:20]

I disagree with what you're saying. I think I'm saying basically the same thing. I don't see it as a blip. But I do feel that in Zen practice, we touch all of these places. And touch meaning, you know, deeply. We could do that. But actually, if we do, there's another question. Yeah, good point. Ross, you had your hand up? Yes. I have a question about Ron's take on you and it's not being a blip. So if one is practicing great patience and they become impatience, where do the patience go? They couldn't hold it anymore. Could they ever hold it? We really have it.

[32:23]

Yeah, I think people can change like that. That they can always have it. I don't know what people can always do. And I just know myself. Well, my experience is that I've cultivated or have a sense of and at times I feel there's an expression of that. But I will not say that I embody it and I have it. because I know that it changes so much. And so my question is, these people that Dogen and Shakyamuni Buddha are talking about, are they really different than you and me? I think they have a different level of awareness than I do. In that they are maybe aware that I'm not being patient now and I need to dial back? No, no, just that they embody it more than I can. Could you say what that means? And that's my last question.

[33:25]

What does it mean? They take it on. They take it on and are familiar with it in a closer way than I can be. You know, but that's just you analyzing yourself. That's true. That's true. Right. So would that also mean from what you're saying, Ron, that. They are always patient 100% of the time. No, no, I don't know what they always are. As opposed to the blips. And those are those of us who realize that we have patience and then we don't, but then we have it again. Is that the blip that you mean? Isn't it a lot less maturity itself? How low? I see your hand. I want to try. I'll call on you in just a second. Ron, could you respond to the question, and then we'll put Powell up? Dean, say that.

[34:27]

Dean, ask that again, please. Dean? So when you're talking about someone embodying something as opposed to someone having a blip, for example, we have this sense of I know what patience is, I understand patience, but then for a moment I don't. So does that mean I'm not embodying it? I'm just having blips of it. And it sounds, if that's the case, that there is value in embodiment and maybe not as much value in a blip. And that's what I'm trying to understand. I don't want to get around to measuring value. I don't want to measure it. All right, let's move on and let someone else comment. We've got Paolo has his hand up. Let's let Paolo say something. Yes. Let's see. And Paolo, thanks for your patience. Yeah, I apologize, guys. I didn't mean to.

[35:30]

We're all here together. It's a great conversation. And I just so appreciate it. I've been hungry. You know, it just it sounds like it may be something like maturity itself. You know, a young person can already be showing the signs maturity or know what maturity is and you work towards it and you have moments of greater maturity as opposed to lesser than. And then there's a certain point where you've become so mature that you might slide back and you might even have falls, but you can never quite go back to the same immaturity that you once had. Right. And I think maybe it's not an either or thing. It's not. I love the definition that Susan gave of great things as being true adult. So that that that makes it human for us. Right. I don't have to think about being a great being who. Will never have desires again in a way that Dogen and Shakyamuni Buddha didn't have desires.

[36:36]

And and that allows me to grow into. that maybe they've achieved. And I can already consider myself a true adult, at least, if not a great being. And it seems like in this lineage that a lot of the most profound teachers and the ones have had, I think, the most influence maybe and trouble and all that good stuff seem like they're always emphasizing, oh, yeah, you know, I've... I might have had this realization or that one, but that doesn't matter. And from what I can tell, you know, Ryushin got me opening the hand. Seems like the teachers that are held in the greatest esteem are the ones who tend to de-emphasize or these realizations that, yeah.

[37:39]

Thank you. Thank you, Paolo. You're next. I think it's not particularly helpful to be grading and rating based on achievement, but this is a wonderful teaching. It's a aspiration, a reminder. It's a really helpful teaching to live with. That's where I see it. Thank you. Philip, you're on. I always get stumbled by numbers. And for there to be

[38:39]

The eight awakenings, I mean, that's curious to me. I don't know what that means. I mean, does that mean there are a lot of them and they narrowed them down to eight? Or what is the order in which this is emphasized? Does anybody have any idea? Yeah. You know, each one includes all the others. So they're like 64. But in order to talk about them, most people talk about eight. But you can jump into any one and include all because they're interrelated. And, you know, like the first one and the second one kind of pair nicely, desire and satisfaction, which I'll get into, I guess. This is really rich, and I certainly don't mean to have the answers, but the way I really look at the way I've been studying it, I just have this feeling that we can't push it away from us.

[39:51]

We can't exclude ourselves in it because we are practicing Zen. And, you know, practice is about. on the activity, we're one with the activity and we forget ourself. That's a moment of enlightenment. And that's not somebody else. That's our experience. And we all have that in Zen. It's not a blip. It's an experience. And so I just. And you can disagree, and that's just fine for myself. I feel that he's talking to everyone. And no matter where we are, we can jump into it and benefit from it. On to the second awakening, and then we'll have time for more discussion. So if you would mute yourselves.

[40:51]

Susan, would you like to take a one or two minute break? do in the in the zendo just I don't think so okay very good thank you people have a lot to say so we can just use the time wisely of course I'll leave that to you to to be wise I'm just second awakening is to know how much is enough already have something you set a limit for yourself for using it so you should know how much is enough If you want to be free from suffering, you should contemplate knowing how much is enough. By knowing it, you are in the place of enjoyment and peaceful. How much is enough? You're contented even when you sleep on the ground. If you don't know it, you're discontented even when you're in heaven. You can feel poor even if you have much wealth. You may be constantly pulled by the five sense desires.

[41:59]

and pitied by those who know how. This is called to know how much is enough. So how do we know when enough is enough? And what's the relationship between desire and satisfaction? Does satisfaction tend to be our experience too much attention to desire? So Dogen says, even if we already have something, we can set a limit for ourself. And in that way, we'll come to know how much is enough. Limiting what we take to those things we already have. That's an interesting statement. I've been thinking about that. Here's an example that came to my mind. You know, we live in a time. When we can go to the local grocery store and buy fruits and vegetables from anywhere in the world, you know, they're shipped here in no time.

[43:01]

As a result, not all modern folks know what foods are local anymore. So to go to the farmer's market or to have a garden is to kind of know about what's grown in our area. Season, the one we're presently in. And it's a way to limit ourselves to what's available locally. It's pretty hard to do that these days. You know, the temptation to buy what we want to buy, what we desire any time strong. Still, it's not impossible. And it's a way to learn about where we are, you know, to find certain satisfaction in that. eating with the seasons, looking forward to the next season's vegetables and fruits while we're content with what we have. So that's just something I've been thinking about.

[44:08]

You know, there's that koan when you when you meet the Buddha, kill him or kill her or kill them. Suzuki Roshi says that we should kill the Buddha if. Just somewhere else. Kill that Buddha. You know, and then come back to right here. This humanity right here. So in other words, we can stop looking outside of ourselves to find what we're looking for. How we can end our suffering. So what is our ability to be satisfied no matter what circumstance we find ourselves in? That can be really challenging. In Zazen, we see how often the mind is looking for something outside to bring us pleasure or to ease our pain. Right. He says without being aware of it, we try to change something other than ourselves, order things outside of us.

[45:15]

So to kill the Buddha is to let go of those outside things that we think. Well, problems we're facing. And come back to satisfaction with this moment, whether we like it or not. When I started to sit Sashin's, I thought I might be missing out on something that could be. I was comparing activities. At first, I had a really hard time putting down that thought, you know, that I was missing something else by deciding to sit a sushin. It was a kind of desire, you know, to want to have it all. I felt conflict. I often asked Sojin Roshi how to pare it down. That's something I'll probably always work on. So what's at the bottom of this practice? You know, this practice is not just one of many things we can do in order to have an interesting.

[46:21]

I mean, we can practice that way, but we won't be able to penetrate the practice deeply to, you know, to discover the satisfaction. That's there. If we think Zen practice is just another of many activities, a path. So slowly in practice, we have that experience of this is enough. We experience satisfaction. Maybe it comes from like a choice we make about how to practice when desire comes up. I want to read you this little quote. Sojin Roshi said, we are all in some ways victims of our wants and our excessive needs. As we practice Zazen over time, we have the opportunity to discover the joy of letting go. The effort we put is one with the satisfaction we experience.

[47:27]

What better reward? Each moment of sincere effort is a moment of satisfaction. So he was he always invited us to practice that way. thinking that our oreoche eating has a lot to teach us about what's enough. We have three bowls that are designed, you know, to help us practice with just the right amount, just enough to nourish us during Sashin. It pays attention to, you know, the right combinations of colors and textures and tastes. There's a balance just enough, right? And we train in this kind of ritualist way of undoing the cloth, setting out the bowls and the utensils, how to hold down, how to arrange the cloths. We do this with just enough attention. We wash our bowls with just enough water.

[48:32]

And we put everything back together again with just the right amount of attention, you know, being careful. So while we're doing that, we forget about our sore knees. We forget about our back. We drop our thoughts and we just settle into eating, just eating. And through great appreciation, right, for the simplicity of it, the beauty of it. the quiet, the taste, the unity and the zendo, all caring for the meal, we feel satisfied. Also in cooking practice, there's the opportunity to discover what's enough and what might be extra. So, you know, when I was practicing as the Tenzo, Sojin Roshi always told me, tell the cooks we're not a restaurant.

[49:38]

Tell them to plan simple meals, food. We're not trying to impress anyone. But, you know, it takes time to realize that and to experience the satisfaction in that. People want to make a mark, right? That desire to be noticed. When I first started, I used to run outside before lunch. and gather up edible flowers to decorate the first bowl. Sojin told me they were lovely and they were extra. One person I trained to insisted on baking bread from scratch for sashim lunch. Both Sojin and I told the person that's not necessary, that's extra, but the person insisted So we decided we had to let the person run it out. You know, the compulsion, the desire to be extra good flowers.

[50:43]

Sometime later, quite a bit later, that person came to me and said, you know, told me they realized why it wasn't necessary to bake bread for sashim. We're all learning to give our best effort, you know, with nothing. Basic, ordinary living, right? It brings us contentment, but we have to experience it to really understand it. That's what our practice is about. Suzuki Roshi says it this way. He says, do something. We want to achieve a result. And instead, he says, do it in a spirit of non achievement. That's quite a phrase in our culture, isn't it? A spirit of non-achievement. But he says there'll be a good. Just do it without any particular effort. It's enough.

[51:47]

And if we make a special effort to achieve something, then it leads to what he calls an excessive quality. Then there's some extra element there and we should get rid of that excessive. And he says that's really important in helping us to locate ourselves in the middle way. And that the middle way is the place of enough. So that's another reason why when we cook for into the Zendo and we do the cook's bows and we sit down and we keep our eyes lowered like everyone else. We don't look around to see if everybody likes the meal. We don't look around to see who's taking seconds. Extra. And it's really kind of deadly because it takes us right away from what we're doing, which is eating.

[52:50]

Dogen says we can be content sleep on the ground. or discontented in heaven. So he's saying the circumstances don't determine whether or not we're content. He goes on to say that we can feel poor if we have wealth. Well, I think this is kind of tricky because it takes some money, some basic necessities to live. And we have a long way to go because clearly not everyone has those basics. And we have many examples. He doesn't necessarily bring satisfaction. So. You know, the. kind of imagined reality of the state in the mind is not really reality.

[54:08]

So what we think we need to be satisfied is often off the mark. Thoughts, but not really reality. We see that in Zazen. Perhaps more in long machines. Dogen says the way to be satisfied is dwelling in no place. But where is that? How do we dwell in no fixed place? Pretty hard. But we do have experience with that, with experiencing satisfaction. We can come back to that. Having enough if we stay with. breath and posture and we observe. Something falls away. We all have that experience.

[55:10]

In one of the, I think I sent you a paragraph from Trungpa, and he says facing obstacles add appreciation with some sense of what he calls rejoicing. He says, be content with what we have. Use it as a celebration and see how it simplifies your life. Watch how it simplifies your life. You know, I started thinking, well, this can really help us to lighten up or help me to lighten up. When I had COVID in January, I was on semester break and I was about to go up to the mountains to ski for a few days. You know, I'd been planning this trip to go. And I thought about Trump as encouragement. So I thought, well, I'm going to try that on.

[56:11]

So something like, how wonderful. I don't have to drive to the mountains. Isn't it nice? I could take a bed in the middle of the day, and I'm so lucky to have this chance to be quiet and stay in bed. You know, I repeated that to myself, and I can't say that I believed it 100 percent at the personality level. But. Just willing to try it at the practice level, you know, why not? And I'd like to keep trying to remember that. I don't know if I will, but I think it's great advice. So in Zen practice, we have the opportunity to experiment. You know, we can try something, we can omit something, we can add something and then just watch so we can observe how satisfaction appears or

[57:20]

or however you want to say it, how we become aware of it in relationship to those small desires. I want to read one last short paragraph. It's from Dogen's Instructions for the Cook. He says a dish is not necessarily superior because you have it prepared with choice ingredients. There's a soup inferior because you've made it with ordinary greens. When handling and selecting greens, do so wholeheartedly. With a pure mind and without trying to evaluate their quality in the same way in which you would prepare a splendid feast.

[58:21]

Many rivers which flow into the ocean become the one taste of the ocean. When they flow into the pure ocean of the Dharma, there is no such distinction as delicacies or plain food. There's just one taste, and it's the Buddha Dharma, the world itself. In cultivating the germ of aspiration to live out the way, as well as in practicing the Dharma, Delicious and ordinary tastes are the same and not two. Likewise, understand that a simple green power to become the practice of the Buddha, quite adequately nurturing the desire to live out the way. Never feel aversion toward plain ingredients. What is the desire to live out? And how do we nurture that desire?

[59:27]

So I think that might be a good place to stop to. And see what people have to say about. Enough having enough. I think Mira has her hand up. I see Ed, but I think Mira had her hand up first. OK, let me. And I'm here. OK. I'm here. My question is really basic. I was I was trying to understand for myself. The difference between having few desires and being satisfied. See what the difference is. If you're satisfied, you don't have desires. So for you, does one lead to having few desires?

[60:34]

Does that lead to satisfaction or does it have a direction? Yeah, it seems if you have few desires, you're satisfied with what you have. Is that how you feel? Especially being satisfied, especially going in that direction, that being satisfied to me means you have few desires. How do you discriminate between them in your mind? But I'm just asking you, is that your experience? Is that my experience? Say the question again. Is that your experience that when you have when your desire is limited, you feel more satisfied? Yes. Yeah. So I I think they're pretty much the same thing, but he made them into two things. So he must have some reason for thinking they're separate.

[61:36]

Does anybody else have any way they see how they're different? Let's hear from Ed and maybe that'll come up. Hi. I was wondering about our or my desire for the physical and mental health of my loved one. How does that fit in with this? Do you have a feeling? how that fits in with this well no I mean I don't I I struggle with and especially when our loved ones health isn't what we want it to be and

[62:41]

So maybe that's That's about what suffering is but it's still I Still have that desire for the well-being of my loved one You know what what other people might have something to say what my that is that you're Knowing you a little bit your intentional effort to to show that in your relationships. That's what Sojin was talking about turning desire towards practice through intention. And to me, that seems to be what you do, Ed. And so that kind of desire, isn't that a wholesome desire? Doesn't appear to be connected to your ego.

[63:48]

It's coming from the love of your heart Okay, well I guess that doesn't it wasn't differentiated from what the you said, I mean I was All the stuff about desire but I didn't hear that you that there are Good desires I guess or positive desires when we turn desire to call it practice but that's what we're doing right we're turning it towards a wholesome activity perhaps someone else wants to say more does that make sense what Other questions or comments?

[64:54]

Let's see. Mary, did you want to follow up? Please. I wanted to follow up what Ed and Susan were saying. I was just listening to a talk by Gil Fransdale, and he was addressing the same thing about desire. And he definitely was saying that. Some desires are wholesome, and certainly the desire for the welfare of people, and that's what the Bodhisattva path is about, is desiring other people's welfare. So to me, that's definitely a good desire. And like Susan was saying, he said we should have huge desires. So I think we have to... discriminate about desires. And that's what Gil Fransdale was saying too. Like desire to practice. We all know that's a good desire.

[65:55]

And desire to help all beings. We say that all the time. And that includes your loved ones. Thank you, Mira. Yeah. And let's see. I was thinking about the first noble truth, desire, and that desiring something that I don't have, whereas being satisfied is satisfied with something that we do have. Soji used to say, want what you have, don't want what you don't have, or don't desire what you don't have. And that seems like a really simple adding. And they really come close together. almost like a gaso for me, and that there's a distinction, but it's kind of how do you look at them? Ron, you are next.

[66:58]

I was going to actually be in the same track as Mira was, that a bodhisattva is all about desire, desire to be helpful. And we talk about the bodhisattva ideal all the time. So there are desires that are being self-centered or not. That a self-centered desire is a problem. But a desire that's centered on wanting to help somebody else genuinely, not to make myself feel better, but to help them. And I suppose that I feel better helping them. But it's not so self-centered, hopefully. It could be self-centered and kind of condescending, but hopefully we'll still steer away from that. So I think there are wholesome desires, and Bodhi is a good example of that. Thank you.

[68:06]

Julianne. I think what occurs to me about Ed's comment about desiring what we care for is we just need to acknowledge that we don't really have control. So we might desire for the well-being of others, but we have to acknowledge that in the end, we may not get what we desire. And it's... something kind of profound that we have to accept. So that's just a thought that I had. Thank you. That's a good point. Paul? Thank you. You know, the word that's coming up for me is craving.

[69:09]

We talk about that craving. is one of the poisons. And this, when our desires become crazy, I'm thinking that's, maybe Dogen was kind of thinking about that. Because we're going to have desires, but we have to sort of be able to touch them lightly. Because what I mean is, Families are not doing well or friends or anything that's very personal to us. We have to be able to allow it to be the way it is, but still to have the desire, the intention for whereas craving, when we touch into that, thinking that's desire, I think that's

[70:12]

That's really the ground where we have to be careful. It's not so easy. We've got to have it. We've got to have it. And that's a difference. Thank you. Julianne, do you have a follow-up perhaps? I did. Something that occurred to me was also that sometimes we... you know, in this discussion about whether our desires are wholesome or unwholesome, we start to think about our desires as, as I, me, mine, you know, like, of course it's, of course it's a wholesome desire because it's mine, you know, this is something that I want. So justified, but, um, I think it's important to remember that, um, you know, it, Just because we feel that it's justifiable doesn't necessarily mean that that desire is a good thing.

[71:19]

Other comments? Great to hear something from everybody. There's Lynn and then Greg. I don't know if this was you were reading or you were just paraphrasing, but this each moment of sincere practice is satisfaction. I find that and it goes to so much of this and what Ed said because we don't know how it fits in at times. But to be able to be satisfied with our own sincerity of action, that seems to me to be, we have to be at a place. I mean, I thought that was very beautiful. So, thank you. I don't know if that was from Sojan or from you. I think that was from Sojan, yeah.

[72:36]

From Sojan? I think so. I think that's the one quote I read. Yeah. Thank you, Lynn. Thank you, Lynn. Thank you. Greg Hertz. Hi, everyone. I wanted to share, I really resonate with this challenge of desire and satisfaction personally. Like I'm just thinking about like what I could be experiencing that might be better. And that, causes a lot of dissatisfaction and this distraction from what I'm actually experiencing. I know point, but it just feels very real to me. Thank you, Greg.

[73:38]

I mean, Susan, it's actually your lead. I'm doing the questions. I don't feel like I have to comment on everybody's comment. I mean, I really just feel that this is rich for people to speak. And so if I have something to say, I will. As we know you, you will. Thank you. Okay. Let's see. Jim Erb. Hi, everyone. Hello. Susan, thank you for introducing these first two awakenings. As we've talked this evening, I've thought of them, diversity and moderation. I'm sure we can think of other words we would use. But also moderation made me think of modesty. And I think when we talk about desires, wholesome desires, unwholesome desires, even wholesome desires, I think, can become.

[74:41]

when they are not in moderation. So because we become immodest and it becomes more about us than it becomes about the wholesomeness or the compassion embedded in that desire. So that's all I had to say. Yeah, thank you. Tim. Yeah, a lot of thoughts, but I guess just to add something here, what I was, I could resonate with the important desires. I have something going on right now with my daughter and how she's doing in school and this and that. And I find that, and it's a wholesome desire to want her, you know, to do well. Is it for me not to be consumed by the desire and not let my mind just go with it and desire, I don't know how I can say this, things down the road, you know, I want her to do well. her to do well their grades what type of person she can become and also my mind just goes [...] and so it's to try to have that desire just be in one spot and not just let my mind go so anyway that's what i was thinking that's a good phrase there not to be consumed by it i mean

[76:06]

especially with our loved ones. I think that's a great challenge for all of us who are practicing. You know, there's this kind of way culturally that I feel like we're asked to, like, align ourselves with something's going on. But really, the best thing we can do is to pause. I mean, you know, that's what we learn in Zazen is to breathe, right? Like the breath is really, really important. And it helps us not to be consumed, and it's really hard. That's all we're doing is practicing with that, all of us in our individual life experiences, right? Whatever our edge is, that's how I feel. Could you say a little more about aligning? the loved one and also maintaining one's own kind of alignment and how not to get lost on one side or the other.

[77:11]

Well, why don't you say something? What do you think about that? Well, I'm not a parent, so I have an imaginings that we want the best for our children. If we have, as a parent, something that we don't really know what they really want, we have our own ideas, so that's a balance. Like with Sweetie Pea here, my cat, she lets me know what doesn't work for her, but it's a much simpler cognitive exchange that we have. And then daughter, I'm sure, and you and Lee Hong. So I don't really have much to say, but it's just kind of like, how do you not give up on your own sense point of view and honor and listen to the other? Is there a particular tip or trick to... Well, that's a great question, and I think we all, whatever close relationships we have, carrying that question around, to me, is more important than having an answer, actually, you know?

[78:13]

And I don't mean to not answer your question. You answered my question perfectly. That's exactly it. Keeping the question, because I think the research will change moment by moment, depending on what's arising with our loved one. And for me, you know, like with my daughter, it's just kind of keeping it real and not creating these scenarios in my head down the road. I mean, sometimes it just goes, and I'm thinking, what's going on here in second grade is going to affect her high school career, you know? And we're just going to figure out what to do in the coming months, and then nothing is really wrong. And so it's just kind of staying present in the moment-to-moment thing and not letting my mind just take these issues or two and run with it. Yeah, that was said perfectly. Thank you. Rondi's got her hand up. Yes. And Rondi Spotlight is. So let's see. There I am. So thank you, everyone, for your comments.

[79:17]

And what's going through my mind is. OK, brought it up, and that is the. The practice of no preference, you know, which really applies, I find, to many situations. And, of course, we all want the best for our loved ones. But it's really important sometimes to take the backward step and breathe. We want to get in there and, quote, make it better. As a number of people have said, you know, there's no guarantee that that's going to work. It's really important to be willing to take a moment and take a backward step and hold the stories because our imaginations can really run and we can come up with some fabulous stories which may be helpful.

[80:23]

And then for Ed, what I wanted to say is, Ed, you know that the way to go is meta. And of course, there's nurture and all that means a lot. And you have a sense of how to go. You know, and thank you so much for that, Rondi. My feeling is that in what you're saying, when we take that back, take that pause, that is a moment of satisfaction in ourselves as opposed to a moment of, you know, whatever you want to say, anxiety or, you know, what attention, whatever. So and that that's good. It's not bad to feel satisfied. in the same situation where our loved one is not experiencing that, you know, we're in a better position to be on their side when we're experiencing that in our own self.

[81:40]

It gives it creates a breathing space. And the the other thing. that comes up for me in practicing is the saying of having no preference. And that's what I think you were practicing when you were using Trungpa's paradoxical instructions. And it seemed to work, even if, as you say, you didn't believe it, but you were giving yourself these instructions. And and doing these. And and it seemed to be soothing. Well, you know, I'm kind of a firm believer in we don't have to practice some. We don't have to wait until we believe something to practice it. There is a saying, you know, fake it till you, you know, till you make it.

[82:49]

I mean, the act of practicing itself builds something, right? Some muscle. That's right. So that could be enough. Almost at the end here, maybe we could take one more. It looks like Lynn has her hand up. And there you go. I wanted to say that. Maybe some of you don't. In Judaism, you know, a mensch is a true human being. And it's very aspirational, religion and practice. And I feel so is Buddhism. And I feel like these eight, it's just aspirational to be fully present, to be fully human. And to be a match, you know, to be truly fully human, good person, doing walking beneficence into the world.

[83:59]

Thank you, Lynn. Note to. Stop on. I just want to say that Andrea is out of town, but she will be back and she'll be sending you a couple of readings for next week's class. So you can be on the lookout. They'll go out Saturday or Sunday. And let's see, I think, Ross, you might have an announcement. No, the. Didn't she ask you to announce something? Oh, the register, the registering thing. But then that was supposed to go in the chat. OK, if you haven't registered for the class, it's fine that you showed up, but you should go on and register because that she has some ongoing list and that's how you'll get them.

[85:03]

So if you never got the translations of the fascicle, she'll send you that and the readings for this week and she'll send you the readings for next week. So just go to the BCC site. Or I think Ross is going to put it in the chat box. I am going to do that. Yep. OK. Well, there's Judy. Hi, Judy. And I want to say how just how much I appreciate all of you, you know, engaging and speaking and sharing your thoughts. To me, this is it and I have a lot to. to consider and to think about as I plan for the next class. But this is a really nice, cozy group. You can see everybody on the same screen. So thank you all for coming, and don't forget to come back next week. Right, Sweet Pea?

[86:04]

Right. So in the chat is the link for material. And without any further ado, it sounds like four vowel time. hey susan i vow to awaken delusions are inexhaustible i vow to end them dharma gates are boundless i vow to enter them is unsurpassable I vow to be coming. You all can unmute. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Good night, everybody. Good night. Ross, you stay on until the end.

[87:10]

I will. We're back to Higgs and Dunlop. Good night. Wow. That felt really alive and vital. It's so great, all those people. What if I stop and nobody has anything to say? Then what? Well, I think there's the material and the vitality of your presentation. Did it go? Do you think it went okay? I thought it went really great. came as a result of how great it went. And I think that's partly the material of these questions that were like, what's the difference between desire and being satisfied? We're all have desires and then picking out the nuance of like having few desires and the quotes. Your lectures. it's obvious you've done a lot of study and preparation, so it's almost like both barrels are coming at people, which is your energy, just like in the garden.

[88:13]

It's not a criticism. But the reason that I asked about maybe taking a break is I wonder if some people, just a minute of, as Lynn or somebody said, let's step back for a minute or two, not like a five minute bathroom break. People can, shut off their video, as a couple of people did, and go off and do something or another. Well, maybe I'll do that next time then. So maybe like, you know, in the Zen though, we used to do it at the halftime, you know, the halftime. Oh, I got it, yeah, okay, I completely missed that. Maybe it doesn't, well, because it's hard to, like, I was receiving all this information, plus I have extra stuff to worry about, so I'm like a little on edge, not too bad, not too bad, But I also felt that when you said, don't ask me if I'm going to retire because I enjoy what I'm doing, it's clear that you enjoy teaching and presenting because you can feel it.

[89:14]

One can feel that vitality and that joy in your presentation. We don't necessarily get that with all of our teachings here from people. It's personality, partly it's maybe the material. So I think that contributed, and the people who showed up obviously were interested. It was a great group, and everybody had good things to say. Now, I've got a question for you. So we will take a break next week in the middle then. You'll be the host again. You might as well do all three. Yeah. Let me cut off the recording. Let's see. I guess we can leave the recording on. No, turn it off. Oh, okay. Let's see, recording. How does recording stop? Oh, you know what it might be? Oh, stop recording here. Stop cloud recording.

[90:07]

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