classes on the parables of the Lotus Sutra. And we're going to speak at the last two parables tonight, chapter 14 and chapter 16. And I want to touch a little on chapter 15, which kind of leads into 16. But To begin with, I like to see myself in the gallery. I don't need to see up close and recognize that I need to shave. I just wonder if there are any questions held over from the last class or other classes. to look at that.

[01:04]

If you have anything that you wanted to ask about or anything that occurred to you in the last week. And I want to ask as we go through this also, I have some sort of questions that I'll address later, but you may have some questions. So please raise your digital hand if you do. Okay, well I'm not seeing anything. So, the Lotus Sutra breaks down in to divide the content of the sutra. But one of the ways is basically it splits chapter one to

[02:13]

13 or 14, and then 14 through the end. And the parables that we have been looking at so far all concern themselves with skillful means, with kind of laying out of, well, skillful means and also the one vehicle, the bodhisattva or the Buddha vehicle, of which the Shravaka and Pacheca vehicles are expressions, but they're incomplete expressions. The latter half focuses more on two aspects. And we're going to just touch on the first aspect. And the first aspect is about basically the practices of misadvahs.

[03:21]

There's a wonderful way to think about looking at the content that the first half sort of points us seeing What are the various skillful means? What are the seeing the various expressions of Buddhism up to the point of the preaching of the Lotus Sutra? And the second half is really fundamentally concerned. It's concerned with the doing of waking up to Buddhahood and teaching actually. So the focus is very much on how the how the bodhisattvas teach. And that's where these to look at quickly 15 and 16 lead today. So that's a way of thinking about the division of the division of the whole text.

[04:30]

So in this chapter 14, let me read you the paragraph. It's relatively concise. And then we'll talk about the whole chapter. So the parable, this is just the parable, which is only one part of the chapter. The Buddha is addressing Manjushri. Suppose a powerful emperor do other countries, but lesser kings would not obey his command. The emperor gathers an army to overcome them. He recognizes soldiers having done brave deeds in war and bestows boons according to their merit. Estates, villages, monuments, treasures, gold, silver, mother of pearl, coral, elephants, horses, chariots, servants, and subjects.

[05:32]

But he never gives them the jewel in his top knot. So he's got... not with a precious jewel embedded in it. Only the noble emperor has this precious jewel. If the emperor gives it away, his attendants would certainly be surprised and mistrustful. The Tathagata is exactly like this. He has attained the Dharma throughout his powers through his powers of concentration and wisdom. Since Mara kings will not obey him. So Mara, I think you all probably of the Buddha's awakening when he is tempted by Mara, who is the embodiment of delusion. So by the time the doctrine kind of evolved,

[06:37]

You have Mara as manifesting as a king of several different deluded realms. So since Mara kings will not obey him, the wise and noble generals of the Tathagata come to do battle with them. The Tathagata teaches at meritorious ones and teaches various sutras to the fourfold assembly. He bestows upon them the property of all the teachings about concentrations, liberations, faculties without corruption, and powers. He bestows upon them the city of Nirvana, which, going back a little, really refers to that magical city that we spoke of last week. It's in the city of Nirvana.

[07:38]

Saying that they have... He leads their minds onward and gladdens them all. And yet, he does not teach the Lotus Sutra. Oh, Manjushri, it is as if the noble emperor finally gives the jewel concealed in his topknot. He perceived the merit of soldiers and was pleased. He did not rationally give them the jewel. The Tathagata is exactly like this. Since he is the great king of the Dharma, he inspires sentient beings through the Dharma. When he sees the noble soldiers who have done battle with the five aggregates, the Mara of Desires and the Mara of Death, those who have merited in battle and have extinguished the three poisons, he rejoices greatly. He now teaches the Lotus Sutra, which is treated really interestingly.

[08:41]

He now teaches the Lotus Sutra, which is treated with hostility by the entire world and is difficult to believe in and which he has never taught before and enables sentient beings to attain omniscience. Manjushri, this Lotus Sutra is the last teaching. of the Tathagata, the most profound among the teachings, conferred at the very end and in the same way that the very powerful and noble emperor gave away the jewel after having preserved it for a long time. So that's the parable. This chapter begins with, pretty extensively, with a kind of outline and preaching of what is called, in some contexts, peaceful practices.

[09:45]

He teaches, he explains how the bodhisattvas should teach. And he points to, he outlines these practices in some detail And he calls them practices without characteristics, which means the practices that he's talking about, which are quite, they're practices of conduct, practices of operations of our mind. They are not particularly practices, in this case, he's not talking about practices of meditation. He's talking about something from one of the commentaries. So it's a practice that is not the posture or ritual setting, but that can be carried out in the course of

[11:06]

whatever one may be doing. So in other words, it's practices for our activities in the world. And he goes into this, he talks about enduring patience, gentleness, following reason, and conduct with composure, and a view that sees all things as ultimately empty, and conduct that is not governed by what one sees as appearances. And then he goes into a little, I don't know, here, of all of the various qualities that are cultivated.

[12:09]

But this is all before he gives the parable. So this is a preface, and really I think this reflects the shift that is taking place in the text. The moving from these provisional practices of our kind of conduct in the world to practices of bodhisattvas and buddhas, which are about actually how we relate, how we interact with others. So basically he's saying, I think, in this parable, He's delineating all of these practices that work. We've seen in different aspects in the earlier part of the text.

[13:14]

And then he's saying, yeah. But then there's the jewel. And I'm going to tell you about it now. And that's where the real shift is. in this chapter 14, moving to the latter half of the book. So it's an interesting parable in that I think a lot of these parables, I was thinking about them today, that there are certain ways in which, to me, they don't exactly hang together in a logical way. They point towards something, but whatever it is that they're pointing to certainly doesn't sit quite comfortably in my mind. And I don't know how it is for you, actually.

[14:16]

I'm curious to know. But giving us these practices, and he's not denigrating them. They're important. They're good. But he's withholding this this principle practice, the Lotus Sutra, which is in the top knot. So this teaching has been deferred until now. And it's now that you get to hear what the Lotus Sutra consists of, which is teaching. One of the things that one of the things that he writes is that the king had numerous valuable things to give away.

[15:25]

But these were possessions that were pertained to his body. Whereas the jewel pertained to his head, head as the abode of the animating spirit or the mind that directs the body. So all people use their body, but actually being able to work with and utilize one's spirit necessary activity. of the Lord and Sattva. And to share that spirit with others. So I'm curious if you have any thoughts or comments or impressions about this parable.

[16:28]

Lori? Stupid question. Is that the whole thing? That's the parable? That is the whole parable. So, and the thing that he's withheld is the Lotus Sutra, which is, we've already had 14 chapters of. Right. So, and you never really get to it by the end of the book. I mean, you sort of never, as I recall, so. Well, that's the way. I guess I kept thinking we were going to find out what was the jewel. I got sucked in again. It's Lucy and the football all over again. I got sucked in to think that there was going to be a cup knot that was going to be it. Yeah, that's right. You know, it's like, wait, haven't we already read half of the Lotus Sutra? You know, oh, and now we're going to hear the Lotus Sutra. But we never do the things that's really interesting and perplexing about this text is, at least in my reading of it, you're always hearing about the Lotus Sutra.

[17:57]

And you keep waiting for it to be delivered. And you know, you can wait a long time But if you wait, then you're overlooking the fact that the whole thing is the Lotus Sutra. The whole thing is a way to get you to realign the view that you have of the Dharma as a whole. And it keeps doing that. That's why I said the parallels are not so comfortable for me because they keep throwing me into an uncomfortable space where I say, well, wait a minute, you know, and that is exactly what prompts our thinking. Like a koan, but a different, sort of like, kind of like a koan, but a different style, a different way to get quality.

[19:02]

Yeah. And it's interesting. You know, we have the koans. But when you talk to Hongshir and the people down at the Berkeley Buddhist Monastery in the city of 10,000 Buddhas, they don't read the koans. They don't read the koans. They read these sutras. And, you know, the sutras really... pose the same kinds of practice-based questions for them. I'm looking to see if their hands. Carol? Did you raise your hand, Carol? Yes, yes. This is what he's been doing all along.

[20:02]

You know, you're in with all those toys he gave us. Then, well, this isn't really it. Right. We have further to go. And he's done that several times, just probably in every lecture. And here it is again. I don't know. Is there going to be something? No, this is good. It occurred to me, this is the great bait and switch sutra. You know, they keep promising us something, but we have to discover for ourselves what it is. Ross? Thank you, Hozan. I like to think of it that the sutra, is the parable. And even though there are these parables that are studied within the sutra, the actual whole sutra feels like that to me.

[21:08]

And the jewel, the top knot, it reminds me of a friend of mine and I, cycle years ago. when we got off the motorcycle, they said, where's my helmet? They had forgotten that their helmet was on their head still. And the top knot, I feel we all have this jewel top knot looking for understanding the parables and what's being teased out here in the bait and switch, which I like that kind of way of looking at it. going here, but actually being switched, that it's actually, it's always right here. It's still there, but it's not like in Zen. We talk about that very explicitly, but in this, in the old sutras, it's alluded to, but we don't quite get hit over the head with it, so to speak, with a, this is actually what's going on.

[22:14]

So we're kind of left, you know, discussing and bringing up really valid understand it, but it might be much more simple than it actually appears to be. Yeah. I want to come back to that as a question. But yeah, that's really well stated. For your glasses when you're wearing them. Hannah. keep coming back to this is what all those Buddhists are chanting why is this what so many Buddhists in the world are chanting why is this Buddhism for them well that's that's part of the same question I want to get get back to that it's related to what Ross was saying but I I think one reason that they're chanting it is because for for

[23:19]

creates an incredible devotional space because it's actually promising Buddhahood. And it's promising it in a way that's a lot more direct than virtually any other text that I know. Particularly in the whole last half of the sutra, it just keeps saying over and over again, you're going to be a Buddha. And that brings forth devotion. So I think that's the answer to that. But that may not be so satisfying to you, or it may not be so satisfying to me either. But to explore it, I'm very interested in exploring it on its own terms. That's why I want to be doing this.

[24:23]

But just to go back to something that Ross said a moment ago, what I like about the Gene Reeves book, Stories of the Lotus Sutra, is that the whole is seen as a collection of stories, not just the parables. And the stories unfold throughout the whole text. So it's a text of stories. which, you know, are quite interesting, but you have to, sometimes you have to wade through the verbiage. Sue Osher, and then Sue Marvin, and we'll go on. Well, no, I see. Okay. But Sue, Osher. Thank you. I don't get the attraction of jeweled colors. Elephants, maybe elephants, but the toys and the jewels and the robes.

[25:27]

And I never did, even as a kid listening to fairy tales about princesses and kings and queens, I didn't see an attractive life. Is this trying to evoke greed for dharma? I guess I don't understand that. Let's hold that question. I really want to address, these are all circling the same question. I'll just say, but the question is, in a large sense is, how is this sutra, is it useful for us? And that's, but I want to come back to it, because I want to, I want to look at these other two chapters. Well, the way that's useful for me, this parable reminds me of Sojin Roshi.

[26:32]

Like he would never tell you what the jewel in the top knot was. Never. He would just throw it. Just throw it right back out to you. And I mean, I agree with Ross that. Every single one of us has a jewel in the in the top knot, but we think that it's somewhere else or it's in someone else or this is not Buddha. And, you know, so. Terrible of the plants says that our lives are just full of. A variety of circumstances. And to me, that's what it keeps pointing back to throughout the Lotus Sutra and in this parable. And Sojin was like, OK, you're in this. OK, deal with this and then throw it away. And then you're in the next circumstance. And so. That's kind of what I'm getting from it. Well, yeah, I think what's interesting there also is that.

[27:37]

in its very unwillingness to specify what the Lotus Sutra is, it's doing just that. You know, it's throwing it back to you, that you figure out what the Lotus Sutra is, not for this text to tell you, it's for you to figure out, which is also true of, you know, that's a way, that's really a way of reading, period. of recognizing that each of us creates the text, you know, of Christians. Beautiful. So, yeah, I think that's right. That's an interesting parallel. Thank you. Heiko. Well, I'm actually looking a little bit ahead, but... that the image of the lotus is one of hope and in each of these cases i mean in each of the parables it seems that people get to the point of the brink and find hope and in the lotus the image of the class is in the midst of mud arises a flower that when it blooms is perfectly pure and clean

[29:07]

Right. And we see that in that image. And so in the next one, the Thus Come One's lifespan, which, if you read it, suggests that it's infinite in length and depth and beyond conception, the Thus Come One's lifespan. So in this next story, it talks about the people of his son's hundreds, perhaps tens or hundreds of drunk poison. And yet each one of them can have hope. I don't think it's going to come to the point of each and every one of them healing, but it will come to the point of delivering hope. And I think that's the very image and, to me, the secret. Because I wrestled with this issue. What is the Lodrasuda? When am I going to get to the point where there's like five lines or a hundred lines? But as we've been talking here, it's that image of hope. And the many, many opportunities or paths or the ways that the stories talk about that we can access.

[30:15]

Yeah. Well, I don't want to jump ahead to the 16th chapter quite yet. We will get there. But I think that the overarching message is one of hope and of being offered hope and having the awareness, an awareness that is finally tuned enough to to actually accept it when it's given. Stan? Muted. I guess this is related to the hope, but I have a question about sort of the very beginning of this parable, at least the first translation of it. It's talking about ending time and ending age. when the Dharma is about to become extinct. And then it goes on to say how the Bodhisattva should teach and think about that. And later, a couple of paragraphs later, it talks about age, again, when the Dharma is about to become extinct.

[31:24]

Can you say more about that in terms of... Yes. The stages of Buddhism or something? Yeah, it's a cosmological view in which there are three stages. The first two last about 500 years or roughly. One is when it was actually possible to hear the Dharma from people who experienced, first from people who had heard the Buddha, and then from generations of arhats, from learning from arhats and enlightened beings. The second stage is when you could study the Dharma, when you could read about it, you could still, there were vestiges of the Dharma still really alive, like, you know, like live embers.

[32:29]

And the third stage, which is known in Japanese as Mappo, M-A-P-P-O, that's the age that we are. And there's a lot of controversy about this, but it's the age of the declining where it's very, very difficult to hear the Dharma. And That's, you know, the whole school of Buddhism that really focuses on the Lotus Sutra, in particular, the Nichiren school in Japan, is premised on the fact that we are living in the age of Mapo, and it's hopeless, and we also, we just throw ourselves into the house because there's nothing else that really will save us. So it's complicated. I don't, that cosmological view is not something that was really communicated, certainly not in Soto Zen, not communicated.

[33:44]

Dogen did not emphasize it. I think he referred to it now and then, but he seemed to believe that it was still possible to really practice Buddhism and to awaken. Our teachers felt that, you know, they were trying to give us the genuine experience of the Dharma because they believed it was still possible to do that. And, you know, we have, I think, seen Buddhists and Bodhisattvas walking among us. And that, go back to Heiko's point, that gives me hope and not despair, even at a time that it's really difficult and there's a lot to despair about. And it seems like the Lotus Sutra and all these parables are giving us a way of surviving in this horrible time or this bad time, which, of course, has been...

[34:54]

bad for eons. Forever. Yeah, and so it's not just, it's just not the end times, it's the times. Right, right. I want to move ahead a little. I just want to give just a very brief overview of chapter 15, without going into much detail, because it's the chapter to 16, and it's quite interesting You know, the story in chapter 15 is that all these bodhisattvas have, from, I think, like chapter 11 on, you have this, like, this has become a great tourist destination for bodhisattvas. And so they've come from all these different worlds, and they're hanging out, and they really want to help. And the Buddha says, that's great. I really appreciate it.

[35:55]

But actually, they're all of these bodhisattvas right here, and they're living under the ground. Let's see if I find that. The description is pretty cool, if I can find it quickly. The Buddha addressed all the host of Bodhisattva Mahasattvas. Enough, my good sons. There is no need for you to protect. Wherefore, because in my Saha world, there are in fact Bodhisattva Mahasattvas as numerous as the sands of 6,000 Ganges. And then he goes into this great numerical.

[36:59]

It goes on for like two pages. And then the bodhisattvas, they emerge from beneath the earth. And they extolled the Buddhists with all kinds of bodhisattva hymns and time passes. And then the Buddha says, he says, So it is, so it is, my good sons. The Tathagata is at ease with few ailments and few troubles. These beings are, and this is, the Buddha chronologically is in his 70s. These beings are easy to transform, and I am free from weariness. Wherefore, because all these beings for generations, all these beings for generations have constantly restricted and worshipped and honored the Buddhas, cultivating roots of goodness.

[38:05]

And what he's saying here is, I've been around, well, Maitreya says, well, this is weird, where did all these bodhisattvas come from? And the Buddha says, I have been teaching them for countless eons. And Maitreya is asking, Well, wait, you've only been teaching for 40 years. How could there be all these thousands and thousands of bodhisattvas? And this is what... It only appears to you that I've been teaching for just 40 years. Actually, I've been around for eons, for immeasurable time. And all that time I've been teaching. And this is where you begin to get... of the immeasurable lifespan of the Buddha. And this is something very different.

[39:07]

So, this leads to chapter 16. I just want to read my notes one more time here. So let me go to chapter 16. So chapter 16 is seen as the key to the second half of the Lotus Sutra.

[40:12]

The first pivotal chapter, which we alluded to, is which outlines skillful means, which is right before the chapter of the Birmingham House, which is chapter three. This one talks about the Buddhist lifespan, and I think that it's One of the things that's interesting here is that there's some correspondence. The koan that Gary is teaching us from Yunmen's medicine and sickness subdue each other. Because this one, the parable here, is about medicine and sickness. So... You have this whole explication in Chapter 16 that the Buddha explains in detail what he referred to in the previous chapter, explains that it only appeared that he was born and he was enlightened when he was 35.

[41:30]

and that he died and had para nirvana. That was itself skillful means. And, you know, that was offered because it was seen that the people who were coming to him to be saved, needed to know that there was some urgency to seeing him, that his lifespan was limited, and they needed to make the effort to see the Buddha now, rather than to take it for granted that he was going to be around all the time. So he's laying out, I wasn't really born, I didn't really die.

[42:31]

I'm here all the time. And then he gives an example of the doctor and his sons. And so let me read you that. read it from the book, actually. Suppose, for instance... Oh, I'm sorry.

[43:39]

Here's the section about why he offers this kind of conventional life to people. He says, if the Buddha abides long in the world, people of little virtue who do not cultivate the roots and are poor and mean... greedily attached to the five desires, are caught in the net of wrong reflection and false views, if they see the Tathagata constantly present and not extinct, will then become puffed up and lazy and unable to conceive the idea that it is hard to meet the Buddha or the mind of reverence for him. Therefore, the Tathagata Tathagadha skillfully teaches, no, Bhikshus, the appearance of Buddhas in the world is a rare occurrence. So a little later he goes to, here's the parable.

[44:44]

Suppose a good physician who is wise and conversant with medical art and skillful in healing all sorts of diseases. He has many sons, 20, even up to 100. For some reason, he goes abroad to a distant country. After his departure, his sons drink his other poisonous medicines, which send them into a delirium, and they lie rolling on the ground. At this moment, their father comes. Of the sons who drank the poison, some have lost their senses. Others are still sensible. But on seeing their father in the distance, they are all greatly delighted and salute him, asking, how good it is that you are returned in safety. We, in our foolishness, have mistakenly dosed ourselves. We beg that you will heal us and give us back our lives. The father, seeing his sons in such distress, seeks good herbs and mixes them together and gives them to his sons, saying, this excellent medicine,

[45:57]

you may now, it will at once rid you of the distress that you will have no more suffering. So those amongst the sons who are sensible seeing this excellent medication, take it immediately and are totally delivered from their illness. The others who have lost their sense, although they delight in seeing their father come and they ask him to heal their illness, When he offers them the medicine, they are unwilling to take it. Why? Because the poison has entered deeply and they have lost their senses. And even this medicine, they feel that it is not good. The father reflects, alas for these sons, afflicted by this poison, their minds are all unbalanced. Though they are glad to see me, and they are unwilling to take the medicine.

[47:03]

Now I must arrange an expedient plan so they will take it. Then he says, you know, I am now worn out with old age and the time of my death. This excellent medicine I'll leave here for you. You may take it and have no fear of the illness continuing. So thus addressing them, he departs for another country once again. And he sends a messenger. Your father is dead. And now when those sons hear that their father is dead, their minds are greatly distressed. And they say, if our father were alive, he would have pity on us. and we should be saved and preserved. But now he has left a distant country. Now we feel we are orphans and we have no one to rely on. Continuous grief brings them to their senses.

[48:10]

And they recognize the excellence of this medicine and take it. And their poisoning is entirely relieved. Father, hearing that the sons are all recovered, returns so that they all could see him. All my good sons, what is your opinion? So now this is the Buddha saying, those who are present, he said, what is your opinion? Are there any who could say that this physician had committed the sin of falsehood? In other words, had he lied or deceived his sons? And is that excusable? We had the same question that was raised in Chapter 3, The Burning House. This is a big question that the sutra takes on.

[49:16]

The question is, are students deceptive? And it's like we're talking about bait and switches. Is that fair if it has a positive outcome? So that's the parable. The parable is unpacking the... that we have through Buddhist history that the Buddha was a real person, lived a limited lifespan, And it's now saying there's something else. The Buddha represents something else. And we have an opportunity. We've been given a glimpse of it in Lotus Sutra. So that's that parable. And I'm curious if you have any impressions or thoughts or questions about that.

[50:19]

Jonathan. Thank you. I was actually on rereading it. I was really struck by something in the 14th chapter and specifically the second teen B. There's a fairly lengthy passage where Buddha is instructing Manjushri on what is the sphere of the relationships of the Bodhisattva Mahasata? And then he goes through this list of, here are all the people you shouldn't associate with. Yes. And... This is another, this is also good. It's got its own nexus of misogyny, and all that is really there. And... First, I found it interesting that it didn't appear in the first translation.

[51:30]

I think that it had to do with how I excerpted it. But it also conflicts with modern sensibilities, but it also conflicts with, for example, the Vimalakirti Sutra, where the second chapter of that sutra describes in pretty intricate detail Like, here are all the places that Vimalakirti goes and all the people that he associates with in the Dharma. Yeah, all the ones who are prescribed in this one, right? And there's a real conflict there. Yes. Yeah, there's a real conflict there. And this is left to us to sort out. you know and anyway uh do you have any resolution to this conflict i mean not a resolution i simply agree with one and not the other okay i i don't i don't see anywhere anywhere to square the two if that's what you're asking

[52:50]

I'm just, yeah, I'm just asking where you go with it, and it's fine. Aiko. I speak of cessation, although I remain, it says here, quoting the Buddha. And speaking of cessation, although I actually remain, is admitting to an outright so-called lie. And that is because... functional for waking up sons who otherwise need a panic. All of us, if we took the idea that our life was eternal, we might relax, and I think that's actually a pretty good plan, but we might relax to the point where we don't recognize that our non-separation from other beings requires us to act. And so, although we may be comfortable and joyous in our being, All around us are people who are not in touch.

[53:55]

And so we speak of the panic. We raise the consequence, though it's not real. And I would say that all the different means, which are really quite different in this book, need hope. And hope needs, and I'm going back to that, and that... We could take the view that we remain and have plenty of time, and I think it's wise. We could also take the view that we'd better get on it, and I think that's wise too. And so I think it's... That's why it's... I don't think we're coming up with a clear answer of what this is. Well, I think that... You know, I wanted to read you something from this... Lopez and Jackie Stone's commentary on, this is on chapter 16.

[54:56]

In the parable chapter, this is the burning house chapter, Shakyamuni describes the world as a burning house in which there is no safe place. But now, in the lifespan chapter, having revealed his true identity as the primordially awakened. Shakyamuni declares that even in the fire that destroys the world at the end of the cosmic cycle, his land, the present world, this world, is tranquil and never decays. It is a place where sentient beings are. And on the next page he says, in the Lotus Sutra's language, Even in a world ravaged by fire and torn with anxiety and distress, one can, so to speak, experience the gardens, palaces, and heavenly music of the Buddha realm.

[55:59]

So this is the conundrum. Certainly it's a conundrum for me. And what I feel is that... The views are fluid. They are neither real nor unreal, or they are both real and unreal. That the view of a world on fire where a nation is in civil war or another nation brutally invades a neighbor where people go into public places and kill large numbers of people, that is terrible.

[57:10]

That's true. That's not false. At the same time, there is emerging love and life and music. That's also true. And the real difficulty of our practice, I think this is the essence, to me, it's the essence of our Zen practice is to hold these realities at the same time. How do you do that? This is This is the condition of the Saha world. So that's a way, and I feel that that's what we've been given by our teachers. That's what we've been given by Sojin and by Suzuki Roshi and in our lineage.

[58:14]

But I... I don't know if it's exactly related or not related, but I wanted to make a confession. And the confession is that my faith is in the practice that we've been given. And it doesn't feel to me that my faith in that practice hinges on an assurance that I will become. It's more that the practice is to be as much like the Buddha as I can and

[59:19]

whatever is going to work out is okay with me. But my practice is not premised on that assurance. And this is one of the difficulties I have with the Lotus Sutra, is that I feel like that assurance is supposed to, that's what clenches the deal. And I think, some people are really bolstered by that insurance. And that's fine, I understand. But it's interesting because I can't, so I'm not buoyed up by, I'm not buoyed up by the prospect of Buddhahood, I'm buoyed up by the model of being as I can.

[60:21]

And I just wonder what you all think. Hey, I'd like to let somebody else speak first, please. Somebody else who wants to speak. Nathan? This is more of a question. I've been reading in the reading for the folks who are getting ready. There's an essay by Suzuki Roshi on the Trikaya, I believe it's called. Trikaya, yeah, Three Bodies of Buddha. And I keep thinking about that in relation to this, and I wonder, really struggled to understand it.

[61:22]

But I wonder if you could say something about, or if it, what he was trying to say about the different ways in which we understand Buddha or ought to understand Buddha as to what you're talking about right now. I, my, understanding, and I think the way we've been taught is that we are constantly trying ourselves with these various aspects of Buddha, with Cosmic Buddha, with the Bodhisattva, with the Buddha of practice, and all of these These are aspects of the primordial Buddha, if you will.

[62:27]

And I can't remember that essay particularly right now, but I think our alignment in a very direct way, we take the posture of Buddha that we see in You know, we see it in all of the images that we have. We align ourselves with Buddha and we educate ourselves as clearly as we can on the practices of Buddha. And the ultimate one is... not being self-centered. To take the all-centered, not self-centered view, which is the Buddha view.

[63:32]

And I think that's really, you know, one of the essential teachings of Suzuki Roshi, one of the essential teachings of Sochun. And to notice, I think, how reflexive our self-centered and not to berate ourselves for that. In other words, not to layer self-centeredness on self-centeredness, but just to keep setting it aside. And, you know, as an old friend of mine said, You know, until I took up practice, I didn't realize there were other people out there. And that's at the heart of it. So that's a start.

[64:38]

Thank you, Ashley. You just said it. We can't help but relate to the characters in the parables, the leader of the caravan or the person with the hidden jewel in his life. And I think what it reminds us of is that we are empowered and being empowered to help others with the tools provided in all the stories. Yeah. And so... By doing that, we are taken out of ourselves. Oh, if I had this problem, that's how I would convince these people to continue in a journey or their own being. And deception allowed. So that's really throwing ourselves away and giving ourselves to spreading or sharing the Buddha. Well, yeah. And the thing is that the deception is not self-serving in any way.

[65:41]

The deception is always, or the skillful means is always for the sake of awakening others. Yoni? Sorry. So what you said about what drew you to practice resonated with me. In the sense that I was, I think, something that initially drew me to practice was an interest in how to, in a value system, understand what it meant to be a good person and how to practice being a good person. And in particular, one of the first early books I read was Opening the Head of Thought, and he talks a lot about being an adult. practice being an adult and something i don't get from the lotus sutra stories i don't know it's as if like any sort of guidance on how to be a good person is sort of wrapped up in these fables like i they they leave me kind of like well how do i how do i be decent in the world um and i think i was drawn to zen because there's kind of a very literal

[67:09]

path of how to practice that. Well, it is in here as well. Let me just, I'm trying to find the, in chapter 14, you know, he goes into great detail. Yeah, so there's a list that says the Bodhisattva does not in self-seeking approach or associate with people with position or influence, is alert not to be taken in by extreme ideas, is careful in relations between men and women, and when explaining the law to the opposite sex, in particular sexually aroused or folk desire, whenever acting alone is ever mindful of the Buddha, always remembering to maintain a sense of being with the Buddha. These are all, and this goes on, these are all interpretations that are drawn from the text, in that text as well.

[68:22]

There's practical, the thing is, it's important to recognize that these skillful means are not somehow misleading, they are necessary. They are necessary for our development. We need to practice these. If what we are shown at a certain point is this kind of ultimate teaching of the Lotus Sutra, if we haven't shaped these other practices, we're not going to be able to receive it. You know, the ground has not been tilled. And so these practices are intrinsic parts of the whole path. That's one way to look at it.

[69:23]

And it's tricky because there's some mixed messages here about the... the status and the awakening of the Shavakas and Pateka Buddhas. But the same, on the other hand, it's also saying these practices are part of the whole practice. And so, you know, what I feel is like our practice is built step by step at, you know, Interaction by interaction and how we are with each other and with the people who are around us. You know, I think the most important thing is simply to respect each other. You can say as Buddhas or you could say as human beings.

[70:27]

There may be no difference. Jim, did you raise your hand? I couldn't tell. No, somebody. Oh, Pauline. Muted. Sorry. I also felt very close to sort of your description of faith and practice. You know, it sounded to me like a lot of what you were saying kind of was the Soto idea of practice enlightenment that I feel like what that does for me is kind of change the verb tense on the promises of salvation and something like the Lotus Sutra from a, you know, Buddhahood as future state to a presently available thing.

[71:33]

I think that's right. You know, Soto and Soto Zen. That also, it's like, The position, this kind of radical position of Zen is good for nothing. That's a voice that you hear. But, you know, that's simplistic. You know, what it's aiming to do is to free us from our gaining ideas. Because our gaining ideas are self-centered ideas. And so long as we have gaining, then we're going to be, we're likely to be caught in self-centeredness. So it's just like that Zen is good for nothing. It's just like the negations in the heart sutra, right?

[72:35]

You know, if you take them as principles, then you're, you know, you're also lost. But the idea of practice, I really do appreciate this idea of practice, of practice realization. That, and that's what I was saying a few moments ago that the, to take the posture of a Buddha, to act towards another as a Buddha is to express. I see a hand raised by the name is in Chinese characters. Hi. Can't hear you though.

[73:36]

You're muted. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So my name is Ping, like a ping pong ball. Where are you, by the way? Oh, I mean, Sarah Fell. Oh, okay. Yes. I have a question. I finally understand what you were saying. But then you can explain it to me. Okay. I just always have this image, you know, I totally agree what you said about Buddha and what is Buddha and all this nice principle. But the problem is I have this image. If place a nice Buddha in the middle of self self-centered bullies, you know, how would he deal with this environment? Well, I can't exactly say.

[74:42]

You'd have to be there. I mean, really, the test is, what will you say? If you're placed in an environment like that, do or say in that circumstance. You know, the idealistic part of me really feels that it's incumbent on us to be able to talk to anyone, but it may not be at that moment. But I think what's important is that even if it's not possible at that moment, this is, so I, there's a song that I sing about chapter 20, of the Lotus Sutra, that the Bodhisattva marriage. And, you know, he just practiced, he practiced his respect.

[75:48]

But there's one point in the summary is that, but the monks in this time, they didn't treat him like you might expect. Instead, they they beat him and they insulted him and they tried to drive him away. And he just would run off to a safe place and then turn around and say, I will never disparage you. So it's like, he's not a fool. You know, this Bodhisattva is not going to, he's not going to stay in a realm of that might be dangerous, pointless to try to be nice, but he's not going to turn away.

[76:49]

He's going to try to figure out how to respond. And the Buddha, one of the great stories about the Buddha is, I'm kind of blocking the name, the great mass murderer, what's his name? Angulimala? Angulimala, thank you. Angulimala was misled by his demonish teacher. He has to kill, he has to make a mala of fingers. from people that he killed. And he has this. And then this teacher said, the last one you need to get is from this guy, Shakyamuni Buddha. And the Buddha, he sees the Buddha walking along the road.

[77:51]

And, you know, he tries to catch up with him. And through his miraculous powers, he's walking. And Angolimala says, stop. And the Buddha turns around and says, I already have stopped. You stop. So the Buddha had the capacity to confront dangers. And I may not. You may not. But in certain circumstances, you may. I think that's the best we can do, you know, but what's important about this practice, it's just like, it's like playing music or like doing a martial art. It's a practice. You do it over and over again until it's in your muscle memory for what to do.

[79:01]

If you don't have that, you don't have that practice. then you're not going to have the skill set to meet whatever circumstances arise. And so this is why this is what we do. And by doing that, we expand our capacity. And, you know, it may be incremental over a long period of time, but I think that people have been practicing while understand how their capacity, how their, um, their ability to withstand difficulty, to bear the pressures of this world can increase. That is the faith that I have in practice. Thank you. Thank you, Ping.

[80:02]

We're getting down to the last few minutes. I'm going to talk a little more about the other aspects of the lotus sutra I think during Seixin, but, you know, we've just barely scratched the surface. Other thoughts? Ah, Lin. Well, now that we've come through it, and maybe not sure where it begins and ends, but how can you bring this back to a Dharma talk with Blanchett Tassahara and you singing a song after David had committed suicide?

[81:04]

And her bringing this, so emphatically, the main message of this being care for yourself. You are Buddha. This is the first obligation. I mean, it was... I just want to hear you. You don't remember. You said it's at the end. I don't... I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but that's what I think we've been talking about. We're talking about... I feel like we're talking about saving the self in recognition that we are all co-constructed by all of the selves around us. Everybody on this screen is part of myself and everybody on the screen is part of each other's self.

[82:09]

And so we should look at that as really precious. And by going in the Zendo and still unspeakable things happen and our hearts break. And wonderful things happen and our hearts soar. I think that's a good time to end. Let's chant the Bodhisattva vows. And... Zendo. And... Our practice period is not over. We have Sashin. We are pressing on. And let's not let up.

[83:14]

Let's begin. Mings are... I vow to awaken with them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. I just invite you to unmute and say good night. Thank you all. Thank you, Hosan. Good night, everyone. Thank you, Hosan. Good night, everyone. Good night. Stay well. Thank you, Hosan. Thank you.

[84:05]

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