Remembering Sojun, Part 3

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so tonight is a another night i think we've had two so far of remembering sajjan roshi a my name is ellen web i think i know almost everyone here home so you probably know me too
and tonight we have three speakers a raul moncayo walter keizer and take the grim and they're all long time students of sajjan and most of us are
used to having them around although that they haven't been around quite so much recently
but i think most people know them and for those who don't know talk about themselves so i thought we would do it in in the that order role and then walter and then jake and m
each one of you could take about fifteen minutes to talk and then at the end of all three speakers will take a questions or comments from everyone here if whoever wants to speak so a raul would you like to admit yours
self and begin and i'll i'll tell you in fifty minutes unless you already have stopped okay
oh good evening everybody can you hear me
this ah nice to see you are familiar faces are insane you guys when you'd a long time it's like nice to see everybody
and i skipped some of the you know the kind of biographical things because we know each other and maybe some of you but i don't but so i started practicing surgeon you know nineteen seventy eight
at the dwight way
i had just arrived
from europe
and up
ah i started i lived i ended up living on wiki street half a block from going away went to san francisco zen center and they told me only should go to the berkeley center and sewing went
and so i started sitting in the afternoons and started meeting with sojourn for docusign in that little space he had you know i'm next to him the kitchen the dog
and i and i was pretty like a lot of us pretty are drawn in by him you know by his and a purity you radiance and kindness and
so i took up the practice and then a buy a said with the first machine five days the shoe nineteen eighty i believe that was sixteen when daniel was being born
in sudden had to leave this machine
for some time
and them
oh and then bureau pretty much since nineteen eighty i practiced steadily ever since you know sittings machines and the lingo hot so every year
and then ah
i was a i received the layered nation
and i i couldn't be a priest at that time because well make number of things but one of the one because i i was married and and it was in kind of of the equation of the marriage and so then to after a divorce
oh in a for more than i got a date and nineteen ninety six and already been you saw i was the third fourth you so after maybe in and rebecca
and them
i'm forgetting the name
fran fran for him thank you
so i was i was the first you saw after the three of them
and then
oh and then you know is ordain after that
and then i received dharma transmission about ten years ago
and and then finally you know i left busy scene he encouraged me to start blue mountain you want me to have the experience of being teacher in having a saga
and that
am so so i did that and so now i kind of
can live a life similar to he is are not only because you know how he taught me how to sit
and a and he told me how to set the way he said
oh which was easy
and and i stuck to it ah he was hard for a long time married rewarding at the same time but quite difficult and
it helped me work through it in
it works or sell my delusions
and just
you know suddenly and gradually shedding
ah unnecessary
ha ha
attachments or
gutter cleaning
to think that are not use or for self or others
and a religious it also has some tensions because you know in a soup hiroshi didn't work and in think that priests should work
and surgeon didn't work either and he followed suzuki roshi in the hand he didn't handle money at all
he was not involved in finances of pcc as far as i know
but i had to work and i had to make a living as support myself and you know i was interested in psychology and became a psychologist you know what i was ah
practicing at bcc i started practicing before i went to graduate school
so you know i had to work and i had a profession so that was different than his practice in different then is looking she's practice
oh but other than that ah this the basic staples of the practice or not the same continue the same you know i've been a blue mountain for two years now
and we have a small saga
luckily you know there's always somebody sitting with me
i'm on zoom and when we do sessions
i've been allowing three people in the zendo
i'm in person i mean me and to people who person in the recipe on so i think that was the last guideline terms how many people could be in person and will serve the guidelines of course better so my life now is is you know i'm i'm single my lives are at the
and i go to bed at eight at night and i got you get up at three in the morning
i study you're right ah from three to five in the morning and then i prepare for thousand and after that you know
and i do that every day except for saturday and then sunday we have a a sunday program and i've been fortunate to this pet people join me in supporting the practice and be supporting them in their practice and down
i'm gonna be ordaining a couple of people after cover it
ah summer already sony and others
are still sewing but bodies are gonna happen until the fall some time
i also ah
i changed my style of of teaching the dharma ah
i don't prepare lectures anymore
and i just you know speak ah
without preparation of so many notes i decided to do that changed his style
and then so i mean you know using securities books to comment just like he did
and now that he's passed asked if talking more about him but family all of us will
and they won't speak too much about him while he was still alive and people who go and listen to him directly
and that
i've also
develop relationships with students in china
and i
i teach up a people have been contacted me from china even very interesting my book on a second thousand in zen buddhism and the very interesting seekers they were trying to in i've learned from the western they are some feelings about the appropriation of champ by the west
ah so it's a it's a cure for it's a careful balance but apparently you know and receiving mean like so far and then you can't do anything in china without approval of the government
but so far so good
and maybe i will be allowed to start a countdown as endo downtown is the word in in chinese for dinner
oh so i planned to go there
after the pandemic
and data
i'm also teaching ah a m
look onion psychoanalysis and i'm writing a book with a chinese student of korean student
there will be translated into chinese and korean
and on lacan and i had a is flat
and they're very interested in that over there
anna knows
it was china you know i mean marxism came from the west rhinestone there were interesting
oh western thought
and and and and for them is very intriguing possibility of somebody who's well versed both in china end
an icon and in this last book i am a nurse excavate it
how will the can't came up with a ballroom and not for the psyche which he he attended as a year is a year seminar of mahayana buddhist signed in paris with
he called his teach his masterpieces teacher who was the foremost oenologist in at that time and he translated all the job char
and i was abandoned
and so i've been able to establish how does abandoned goes from
ah mean do jogo some bus abandoned to ah ah to the con
so ah
and of course lacan is part of the western
ah the tradition of mind
european tradition light
so oh
but they don't have a lot of practice doesn't practice in china other than monasteries
so that's something new for them
and and they will seem to be very soon recovering their national national treasures
so that's very interesting for me and you know very nice people very warm
so we'll see that will provide an opportunity
ah and we'll see what happens when it comes out of that
i suspect i'll be traveling back and force
to some extent
i have the painting here in the back of that certain gave me i think it was for
when i was she saw
that to painting by him this one and then he gave me a when i opened the mountain he gave me one of his paintings of the
the angel escaping the the fire silver holocaust stolen what you've ever seen that painting but it's it's in pencil black and white but it's pretty ah ha as a very strong feeling to it
and there and somehow i feel that he represents that
oh the angel escaping the
the whole cast
so ah
ah properties about fifteen minutes earlier
goes fast about a minute and a half left okay
so ah
so i feel very happy gonna know
now that i'm having problems
they do
you know i i i work with them in ways i'd learned both from my
a practice but most are from surgeon and not holding onto things in
and and carrying the practice forward
it still feels fresh to me day every time i sit zazen you know always like the first time
and he completely invigorates me and gives me the energy to carry forward
and to help a lot of people i mean i still i mean aside from the sunday still work
but twenty hours a week with people in analysis
try to help them make some deep changes
and i feel the best kind of natural extension of the ground of dharma of course is different kind of practice but
but you know
my life right now it's all wrapped around the practice so i think i'll stop there okay
i thank you well

lg doesn't get lower
i am so ah will move on to walter
i thank you alan yeah thank you
courtesy you going to see everybody as not as rahul i said ah i'm not gonna tell a little bit of biographical material like gov from the there but i'm gonna do a little bit of a different twist to honor in pottering our teacher sunday
i began practicing in thirty fig that he twenty years ago into two thousand or so when i had a medical emergency and a led me to thinking about my life and wound up and see and shortly thereafter spent a week or so add to green gulch with her surgeon
on a farm
a retreat where the sun chi was being no talk to her
and so that was the beginning in my practice with up with the surgeon and i i i left her a speaking very very going different places i have bad backup to sonoma county where i grew up by in two thousand and sixteen and i'm putting up here with my family
ah in a house be rebuilt in geyserville and
i am at this time while leading a small set to appear in healdsburg ha dato mag alexander was something you may know started and of we are working together with the and so community to develop the practice that will be involved there at that
a retirement facility of ah here in healdsburg have been working on that project with zen center for a decade or more and it's finally coming to fruition
and so i'm involved with helping or book them developed what will be there there are practice and forms any right that's what i'm doing just now but what i'd like to do is do a presentation of that i call walking with sodium
as you know ah if you know it well that he or he loved watching he walked a walk
ah and he never stopped blocking till during the very near the end of his life ah and i imagine that he's still walking and walking still and statistics and he did it a lot of walking
and a he did walk in the obviously in the streets of berkeley mostly with his dogs as as maybe some you joined him with walking trails of tilden park walk in the mountains and streams at point raised rainer there was a mountains machines walk in the streets of kyoto for the places in japan that he visited
walking around the end up into the while walking
i had a great opportunity to spend a week or so in or jota with two years ago panda he walked my tail off i was a pretty good shape at the time we besides on every night i was like oh my god
the can die if i have to watch as much you didn't know he but he really loved it you love walking around to everywhere
so i hope so you had that experience to of enjoy walking with up with sojourn it was a one of the way she taught i think and and certainly a great pleasure to share that with him and over those many years oh
and i mentioned to that rivers and mountains sutra
the backpacking to shame that we did each year for a while twice a year and then after that acre once a year ah was a session style and backpacking in a point reyes data i should can nab the initiated that there's carry have carried on with over the years ah
and as a part of that of as a part of that a shame that the theme always was are and what was tired or what a caught while sir sansui killed since we kill a rivers and mountains so she her mountains sutra should say carved and a
however if any of you have had an effort that and made the effort to read the adage it's such as it falls under the category of challenge i think what the heck hatch ah up there was always amazing to me that surgeon with ours stay without text and of despite the fact that the often times in this the ribs and now
it's a shame we would people would come along and have very little experience concern her training whatsoever and even those of us who did
kept found that text find that text her a challenge ah the trojan persevered and stuck with it i've had the opportunity to participate in that the rivers and mountains machine after he has ceased her walking there he by the way stop walking or to that's a shame when he could not would not be
able to carry some back he wasn't gonna take any easy way out if he could walk the whole walk and it carries backpack he was done
so but after that fits carried on and hope it still does
but i thought of be interesting in an honor surgeon how to read just a little bit of the sanctuary keogh and just give a flavor for for it and then give people an opportunity to understand little bit about what he might have seen it
i'm read three parts of it not the whole thing you would take our take more you know
these mountains and rivers are at present moment are the manifestation of the way of all products each residing in their darkest position have completely fulfilled their function for these books because these words signify conditions that existed as
actively before to boot as disappeared into the realm of emptiness they refer to something that exists here and now and because they signify the self before any sign of these brews of period they transcend anything that meant for manifest before our very high he's various spiritual meh
merits of mountains are so vast and so far reaching that the america that the merits of our practice of writing the clowns certainly be attained because of the mountains the wondrous effect from are following the wind is completely liberated thanks to mouse the monk dog i
of mount geico in a tracking is assembly said the verdant mountains
garments reforms sojourn were talent are constantly walking and the stone women in the dark of night gives birth to her charm the mountains or never lacking in spiritual merits for stay are undoubtedly in doubt this is why they are constantly at ease
and are constantly walking by all means you must study the in great detail the spiritual merits of the mountains walk and the walking of the mountains is just like to walk in of those who wander through life in ignorance even those of you may think that it seems to have that seems do
different from the walking of humans nonetheless do not doubt the walking mouth
mountains walking
switching to the rivers comment about the rivers as for water it is neither stronger week or as a weapon or dry where it does it move or stand still or is it cold or hot board as it sister not exist nor is it diluted or way
when frozen solid it's harder than a diamond who can smash it when melted it is more yielding than diluted milk so who can care to bits this being so we cannot doubt qualities of the various forms of existence and manifest for very eyes of water for now just
through your training the moment when you were able to open your eyes and see water in the whole universe as a whole universe and learning through trainee does not sure just two times when ordinary people or those in lofty position seawater there is your learning through water training
in which the water sees water because the water puts the water into practice in order to realize what the water is you should thoroughly investigate the water expressing what the water is in this way you will manifest pathways upon which are we are
ourselves meet ourselves until then you must go back and forth and that road of wife upon which all others are all involved with making steady of other until you feel free
vasco also talks about runs into the topic of teaching and loser at the last part or near the last part of this sutra
he talks about on teaching i did wanna say one of the thing that i forgot earlier lick the word two tries his is used here which is kind of unusual or because it's usually associated with the words of buddha and the cursed don't know that new this and he doesn't know
mean that this is a sintra about mountains and rivers it basically that mountains and rivers this experience indeed his etc
mountains and waters form and emptiness
his is it
so in the teaching part there's a thick of transition of a pervert of an ancient teach her of eternal read certain really really liked this fast copy and i spoke about it more the months or years again from ancient times there have been wise wants in stages
who live by the water while living by the water some caught fish some kind humans and some caught the way all these traditional styles being in the water along with this there will be those who catch themselves there is to catch the hook there was a caught by the hook
and those for caught by the way
long ago no sooner than had monk teaching abruptly left his master yi ay from to go live a by the watching river then he became acquainted with the sage of the roof was it not a fish
he hooked was it not a person he hooked was it not the water he hooked was it not something from the water he hoped that someone could see teaching is he been teaching teaching teaching someone is teaching
be someone
the loser just three pieces of this that i pulled out just because i thought of as representative of the whole piece and is all these are all parts thick submission particularly appreciated
oh so how is it that these mountains walk and how is it the water doesn't flow this is where they will get a little cut down to walk they're just stuck there and waters and downhill
oh so what does this mean if the a lot of protests and confusion fallen from this and that in are many discussions about this some years later after struggling with this surgeon said the new with one is it smiles oh it's fairly easy and i should well that's great how's it easy said well maybe
if you just remove the hell i should wait you mean remove the hell is well maybe if walking becomes wiki
maybe wiki the maybe it maybe that makes a little more sense mountains walking is the mountain wiki
the appearance of the mountain as as a representative form
moment by moment appearing vanishing appearing again always in the same car position but never fixed a permanent just mum mum mum mum
and it's just like you that's the walking that's the wiki
and as for rivers know river flowing but just river river river river peering benji
ah til this this was just a wonderful teaching that is one of the strongest connections that and developed surgeon over the years for instead many finish time talking about him going over it it to it those wonderful mountain recessions anda there was a wonderful why wonderful
experience in like i'm still inspired by today happy to answer any questions about this beguiling peace
oh and and like say a wonderful teaching
from surgeon who is constantly walking
thank you walter and am now jake if you would remember sojourn roshi with us
up your meal did
thank you and ah
song be cut off all over the place to start with
the thing that surgeons left me most with i think is
the idea not the idea of the practice of living in harmony with
one another and with environment and that what usually gets in the way of that
his ego herself on so if that statement may be that'll carry through as a kind of seem as we go through some things so i consider myself to actually be a newbie i did sit after reading zen mind beginner's mind and the early seventies and actually good very
near city centre at the time but
want to go to any kind of an organized place that time of my wife but i did teach myself thousand and i sat for a week ten years and then i drifted away from that my thirties and then in the mid nineties i began sitting with them at brown over green gulch
get thing going on with put my life wife leslie and
you know
daschle i want and we live in pleasant hill and so we want something closer to a berkeley berkeley's senate less closer so i went there and i remember having my first docusign with with surgeon and back then he was now yeah i think it became more soja
in in the early aughts somewhere in there i have three or so somewhere there am anyway my first docusign
i was a little nervous very nervous and so i made my bows and allah and i'm sitting there and he said
you know you're very tense look at your mudra that i would doubt my motor said look at your thumbs and really pressing against one another sydney that you want a light touch just barely touching as if you're just holding a piece of thin paper between
the thumps that's always stuck with me in zazen that's one of the first things i checked when my posture is power my exams doing or and when they're apart i'm usually day interesting daydreaming and that's your thing and when they're really tired of i'm chance so that's always stuck with that was my first yoga some and i really felt well in that first okay
isn't that he saw me and that's when i decided i wanted him to be my teacher i had been in therapy for while for various issues and and and my therapist said you know i think you need a teacher and i never thought of that the to that sparked me to they won't maybe i need in she of spiritual to
and so we can think about the and and i've i've found surgeon and sure enough he was he was my match
and it wasn't so much what he would say to me as what he wouldn't say to me what he left for me and how he didn't judge me my various states and also how he knew just went to put in a word or accused at kind of lead me on right so
that's kind of how i got into the berkeley's san sorry became a teacher
look for a way of ordination and so maracas oh how i was thinking i told him about my travels in the mountains of back home while i was really hoping to this mountain name you know
no big mountain hardy climb her husband's and what he gave me was ah was a potion boko rin which is donna face
and when other people are getting these other names deep pool all either the ash but i've come to love the name it when he really nailed me with that because the first part
ocean dharma folks are a face type and
that's what i am ah i yeah let's just kind of for i am i
and the the book ran on during practice he got right because i took that mean or after many years and when alleges from it is of you know
let go of all these things that aren't important let go of ego basically let go of ego let it go
and that's on
my direction trying to let go
when i get stuck on thing so much
then for land trusts know several years ago
i really like as i'll read it to he wrote on the
on the back
the true person is not anyone in particular
but like the deep blue color of the limitless sky it is everyone everywhere in the world and i believe that's from building he took her from german but i so treasure that his gift to me
i think bob said in one of these things
he asked surgeon what shall i say what is your teaching when you're no longer with us and surgeon replied i think walter sit on robson when i forget myself i find myself and i think that gets back to the harmony thing to but i'm going to eager
a few things i want to touch on that i don't think some of the other speakers in the past months or weeks have talked about in no particular order are some things
well for classes you know we would have these classes from surgeon and
for those of you haven't had his class he basically pull out the book and just weed sentence by sentence and then every few paragraphs are there any questions and wants in all he will elucidate on some obscure chinese cinch or japanese point but basically just dry reading and
it was not really that interesting for my opinion fuck someone would ask a question in his eyes when kind of a light up and he would really engage the subject and get into a non non-duality on all the time with this enough and i was a whole different
i'm a class and sometimes in the beginning would say well before we begin today's class are there any questions and there would be hands and we will never get to what whether he was going to good and it was great was terrific just his answers discussion in the questions was the best part nothing
on a pension is due on real don't realise the in a practice of some fukudome drum be a tokyo the chanting and
and the dawn does the belt and every so often he would call a do on rio
how group teacher and he would always say you are the ones who are here are the ones who live here are the ones who really need to be yours to but again with his harm anything
you call someone up the sound the bell and it's are no no no no no no no
it's almost like is like this know
oh that and them
he would do that with with a chanting and get really into the nitty gritty stephanie love that and we to which is like those rates were get into these obscure
a half thinks about
when the fukuda roses and the dawn does this in the timing with it with the dose was all a dance they don't realize it's a dance since it's with the doshi and the dawn of the pokey on of ability to solve together and if you're asked if anyone's are open kind of falls apart or can follow
a number of you know when your dawn sometimes will turner he will turn around and just
what do you do this and i ended with a there
sometimes people would be so off glue my stuff he would start
during the beef
the a snippet that allows for easy it was just crazy but that's of my favorite memories that kind of stuff
and that had to do the irony to because he felt you know it's not a performance this is this is a that
enactment of a
i'm nothing to
no i was on the board for ten years and i'd like to claim that that's a record except that i know mary doria i think center twelve year on get there so she holds the record probably but when i was born president i got to see different side of surgeon
at the time the buildings were falling apart that's a little exaggeration but not too much big walter would adjust they needed attention and so we needed to raise big money and took fix the buildings and plan surgeon always liked to go back to the idea of well it's use valance
years whenever we can
that's the way he did but we got to a point where we couldn't use vaunted we had a few people and he was interested to see how with regard to money's sojourn didn't care about money when it came to himself you know we would say it's time for pay in jerk affairs use out of here
i will be taken care of
but when it came down to this doorknob or this dornob he was really interested in in that or if you're dealing with the landscaping rocks very important what rock to even go out into rocks so you her engaged that surfing
another thing that happened well i was on the board more of a dark side is that there were serious serious personality conflicts ah with
some board members and non board members and people who were kind of in the know and
and things were happening where a small group of fact a fairly good sized group of people left that he left the saga and that was very hard
yeah watching sojourn and talking to him i'm
him out he he gotta go said you're doing what they wanna do maybe we come back maybe enough but he didn't let it
yeah that they laughed
and i also saw him you don't we think of surgeon is very mild and i young people i was in a room once with another person would and the bargain we go ahead and they got started this other person and sodium what is yelling across the room at one another and i just sit
there's been an umbrella
what and there are times when
sojourn was not talking to other people and and i was in a natural meteor and i was carrying messages back and forth and he was relaxed about the whole can retire and i well
this is value is well yeah but now i'm no
that was a good lesson for me to let it go
and when people would leave sometimes he well i'd like i'd sure like to talk to so and so it would you talk us also but maybe love know i'd like to talk him i said well why don't you do a signal what did it now they have to come to me i'm not going to go to that but if you let them know that i'd like to talk
some enduring things because i know time is getting closer at most of you know maybe the most ago it was a huge forty niners fan i mean huge
he didn't like baseball after the strike and of the players strike that gave up baseball didn't like basketball particularly watching that football forty nine football and he would watch for quality told me and when the commercials came because he watched live he would read something maybe some dharma the vs often go back to the game
and i asked him why you like football so much funny ayers it was the plays of not i understood is the intricacy of the place in the options and the dance of the a quarterback with the receivers at all that eight just love it
annie was joe montana family who still live on china post office
does the thing
politics he was really into politics he loved it our politics and he knew all kinds of stuff and he used to give a state of the nation report sometimes once a year usually toward than a year and sometimes people would squirm a bit because it's ago he's gonna get a little over the edge share with the apple
his his feelings but he always would end up saying both that's the most important thing boat i remember that nother thing i remember him driving and if five forty and of in the mornings for zazen and he would invariably have npr on and that's what i had her on fire station and i could tell he was gonna listen
get any to get my c army you know oh driving yet this pedestrian driver relationship thing you know i think came from winning was a taxi driver in san francisco but if he sought a pedestrian rooms driving and he thinks pedestrian may like pradesh
cross street note now he would go on use said they know they have to wait and even give a mini lecture once on that saying is inefficient have the driver stop for pedestrians you're wasting gas pedestrian she wait for the driver well that's one thing but he wrote with me once and he would say i'd be so
song downloads and one hypocrite
go go go don't wanna go you just do that's how he would dot go
she added it was crazy but that's a side of him a lot of people didn't know ah
you know he loved puns or wordplay
and i was thinking about walking with walter was talking about the you know he backtracked and mouse members buried in backpack are the places i can i ask the muscle in one of your back that march a sublimely with lives once and we went to a place we got a couple of miles in and i thought that was perfect and i didn't want to go any further i just wanted to sit by this tree and enjoy that was it and she
want to go further and that's why we're back actually that the either so those are a few things
let's see take your just about out of to others and here the big thing that surgeon was a his intuition is the most intuitive person that i've ever met and i suspect that a lot about p which is in his genes he had that born without and some of it of course was some kind of
of through his law practice
a is super intuitive person and i loved him and do love him and i'm now i will be saying well as he used to say i used to is he would while my teacher suzuki roshi used to say now i said well my teacher sergio rossi who's to say in people ask me something
that's it
i thank you jake and then we feel very honored because we know there's a warriors game going on that you joined us
so now we're going to am take questions and also comments from anybody who'd like to add something at this point am i i think ginny wanted to read a poem by the if anybody wants to play a dream in what
somebody say something up if anybody wants to ask one of our three speakers a question or just make a comment please
raise your hand you can do that and answer the reactions
and i will call you
oh and the first person i see is randy randy which one mute yourself or charlie mood
i think kim
i want to ask around all
about third jeans ah love affair with the etymological dictionary
the illogical gooseberry i've never heard
and the to go
which stationary at e t a logical an analogical dictionary is a dictionary that shows the derivation of the the years that the derivation of words and hate he used the coated during last
crusher he says my and illogical dictionary says this about kindness kind as comes from
the greek or whatever
you don't know anything about their everyday life no okay i'll ask of the other presenters why do they have consider say about them
he had a lot of dictionaries in the
a library and we will we are all kinds of a gemological and antonyms synonyms and so on so you know but i never knew that he was so interested in words or in language
maybe that's something that he didn't want to share with me
i know what you're talking i know what you're talking about o j e i know what you're talking about a would do that all the time for people like with cup compassion he would say will compassion is com with passion and then he would get into the latin or the grief and i knew that so much that in mind fog
asked i would try to through letter
transcript has perfect
see if you'd be looking at the when i did that he like that can he do that
okay ras would you like to learn
a meet yourself actually thinks on i've got a question for walter walter i'm curious of how the mountains and rivers sutra helped inform your experience out in the mountains and rivers
how did it ship your i experience
ah while i was actually probably the other way around
rivers mountains
i mean mean to say that the sutra oh and he just gave it me another so dogan zingy was so it was a net natural stride he loved the mountains and he loved the rivers knee love them as they were and he and he
used them and love them as a word as they are but also in this instance was playing with metaphor right game kinds of things so so have i have a similar and a too did a similar love for nature and nathanael national things and or to see this or
the the source wikihow of basically her use of these things if we love so much in understand or so intimate with as a way of teaching the dharma teaching about for teaching about emptied it's teaching about impermanence are now
just it just a it was wonder it is wonderful it's a really wonderful promotion teaching thank you
and then would you like to admit yourself
thank you everyone and thank you ellen for hosting
this is a question i guess for any of the three that have shared so far but maybe especially for walter or raul if they want to share i'm i'm always interested in hearing
any sort of turning moments sir moments with with sojourn were there were some answer in response or some interaction that was a turning moment
i have a couple that happened for me that i'm very grateful for and a couple that i've talked to other people about and so if anyone has one to share that that would be nice how about you
ben do you want to share one
i don't know as thumb and i was gonna add this during my question or comment is that if you don't have if you have if you don't want to share something like this that's totally fine i don't know some quite a have a useful way of sharing right now but i would think about that
well i i have one
joga yeah work so once when i was serving
i'm so are stirring surgeon side so i'm walking down and he said something and i couldn't
i couldn't hear it again anyway he had based a shattered eventually the whole
pull group for or aoki and it don't walk on your heels
then what he was getting it was
the harmony part of treat this as a sacred kind of thing we're doing here
don't just popped out on your heels and make so much noise is disrupted and i never thought about
oh i'm ellen i will split pea soup of he actually it's an interesting question ben it's good to see you herbs or and i done in just when you're sad i be i'm thinking about it and the first thing it came into my mind was not any moment but rather see
thing that he would say about teaching which data he said and i think about it including suzuki roshi or perhaps some chinese ancestry i'm not sure he said the when you walk in the fog you don't sense
are getting wet but when you get home you're soaking wet
fish and for me that that little bit like my relationship resurgent i can spot a particular moment when he'd been dumped a bucket of water on me
but but i do about walking with him walking in the fog and slowly absorbing that water of is more like that i would say my teaching experience with surgery
and i'm gonna call on marriage and yeah i think it would be nice maybe to end with your palm does that sound good to you
that's that's fine thank you on looking mary
this is directly after jake there's a wonderful spring jake that you to on a story or experienced you talk about and i wish that you would share it about ah
when you when you first asked about sewing a rock soon it was
an ickes me about it is that it demonstrates how seriously he took it there wasn't something to be done a lightly like oh i put i put in two years or i really want to or something like that and and so i wish you would tell that story
okay thanks josh
so i've been purchasing at bcc for couple of years and from coming very regularly two saturdays and mondays and all that in turn causes saw an surgeon in docusign if i could sew on a rock a suit and he said
no because
he said your year you have faith in buddha on what the and you're interested in in dharma but he said what's lacking a saga you don't
do anything you don't know people you common you leave i would like you jake to start engaging and song of practice of sign up for some physicians do things and a talk to people and so i took that advice and than the next year i said maracas roxanne
that's the story

dean would you like it and mute yourself
hmm okay perego am i have one story and i don't know the depth of this story
but damn it meant a lot of not exactly sure why i love salad and sense of humor i kind of like anybody has a brave and pretty a symbol since a humor that can swim segue into sutton really interesting but we were working on this project one time and ross and i had gone up to
to the and you know i am i seemed am i still online oh yeah okay cause i see me two or three times on the screen anyway so ross and i'd gone up to the a to lending library at the of the street to look for some things a lot where stand up there we saw this thing on the counter that looked like a t
tape measure
but when you open it up there's no numbers on it it's just like a metal tape measure but when you pull it out it's just blank except there's one little part and there's a little mark that someone put in it said about an inch and i'm a little bit further about a foot so anyway we're out the measuring these stones and see
when i think it was for them when you're looking at the zendo off to the left those big big stones that are on the patio there and so i just was just so excited about this idea so we wrong move these stones and he was gonna come out and artesia i go ahead do i said nana know you we need you we need you
to make sure we get the stones were supposed to be he said okay so he comes out and i handle this thing that looks like a tape measure and it's not so i handed to him and he said i to fit nice well you know we don't want to get this thing up and have to move it and then it doesn't so he takes us tape measure thing and he walks
over to the doorway or the stone or the gate he pulls it out the stretches it out so far he says well i think it'll about fit and with help presented it's kind of around and
to me everything about that was perfect because it was so simple and it was so just what right as in your bright right was in front of him and i have no idea but that was a lotta years ago back could have been somewhere fifteen sixteen years ago that i really remember that
that and i loved that i shared it with ross i loved that i shared it with so genji yeah was about fifteen yeah anyway it was really really a delightful little thing that somehow to me and
kind everything he was to me so anyway thanks for letting me talk about that it so it makes me very happy to just think about that whole thing so thank you know why thank you it's a good story thank you ah on yeah one thing i didn't mention that i are just very briefly
caricom you know we have the fiftieth celebration for busy see it was ostensibly about bcc but it was really a celebration of surgeons i've and
that was oh such a remarkable even if anyone is there and then he could peep he just loves it you know he didn't like big events often but just one wasn't about him and yet it was about him and so i think you could enjoy it more but there was there
i was a role capstone needs three i remember that person i raghav would you like to unmute yourself
ah so i wanted to ask a question to row
i'm a good some not do personal raul pounds could see you on i saw you for a second and now other you
i would seem to be a long time oh so you just have only though that those tension between you and sajjan on regarding ah
i'm your work and am at the i know what your fantasy one long did doing one thing for me i mean i'm so what just wanted to get
if you wanna go into it like am
what you got out of it from him and i did he help
guide in in in in a way
ah yeah when i quit i think that the
i'm a surgeon was very intuitive and he wasn't too keen on the in with the intellect
and though he was kind of and i have a a kind of intellectual creation was a very emotional but i am the intellectual exploration and so that was a kind of an edge it feel to was a little bit
he was have been critical of that
and i think the way i took it i mean i wasn't gonna about to renounce ah the intellect
and maybe he wanted me to do that
but given where i come from in the agriculture i was raised
and ah
i yeah i couldn't do that because i just enjoyed study lot
and them but i'm
you know sometimes i thought he was a little well no i don't wanna get into the issues actually i don't ah because i just a ah
i took from him or not to get attached to the intellectually regal know that's really the basic thing that i thought that he was right in insisting on that and so i gave him the benefit of the doubt
but it wasn't always easy
the know i i i have so much of an issue in anymore as i feel like a night so i feel more but it can be myself and don't have to be closeted in in different ways as this you know express in show you know who i am in
what i have to offer
hey we just have a few more minutes but actually somebody has put in the chat would you each i think tell a turning moment that you experienced in a relationship with now


role will you will you share a turning moment
you know i didn't think about i'm sure there are many oh
the only one that came up was one early on in docusign with him
well you know came in we said
and then i looked at him
like a mummy
and in the mummy started
his face started contorting you know these different like demonic faces you know
and it was very intense
and now
so i wasn't sure what was going on
and so he asked me well is a neat visit you
ah are you seeing something in mean you are you seeing and me something in you
i'm on i'm i was just laughed with that question
i told them i took responsibility for it because my experience i say well maybe it's you know i'm i'm staying my demons in your face
and if your face is on
not a much is not to say and can really express expressive exactly
but ah
oh that was a very poignant moment
come between us he had thinking joke
okay maybe we will end tonight with a poem that jenny has offered to share with us
will somebody spotlight kinane she can amuse herself
i'll admit it hey i'm quite spotlight but
oh hi shelley
i am
so really just a little a little brief am
back lighting i guess so forty seven years ago a friend brought me to dance sitting at to a way and mel and everything began five years sitting a gringotts five years practicing with him at berkeley zen center than a move to l a and
zen center san diego so thirty seven years away on visiting him when i returned i i feel profound heart and mind flow with him still
so i want to share with you and was sojourn since i never was able to do that with him when he was here with us the poem that i wrote about him in my and twenty seventeen
and it almost feels channeled and a way it's about his extraordinary ordinary manner of teaching though it's not about berkeley san center so imagine for the world of the palm sojourn as the long term
habit of a very different distant zen monastery
and i wanna thank you walter for mountains and rivers and jake and dean for talking about stones
and i also want to disappear and have you
just see surgeon
for surgeon mel weitzman roshi
the dharma master nearly ninety speaks
the young monk stifle their discontent
after all these years they seek teachings with a different twist novel fables fresh commentary his words they think have lost their surprised
the dharma master speaks steadily in his stern and gentle voice he speaks the words of stones i'm sorry he speaks the words of water trickling down a mountainside to pool and a slowly rising
stream the words of stones that have sat through brute whether wild and tender seasons black knights with no stars the crucible a fire
infinitely patient he speaks these words time and time again to the young monks who dreaming of newness still have not listened

thank you and me it's beautiful
so thank you also a role and walter and jake and everyone who was here tonight and i'm particularly also yummy who served as are excellent tacos again and we don't know a thing that's gonna be more of these evenings are not or there are okay
you have to more and ah i suspect they will be every other thursday but i could be wrong and them so i think god will say goodnight and if you want to unmute yourself what the big mistake for you say something about the next one the next one that we're gonna have his
on the twenty fifth of february and officially such she's forty nine day memorial ceremony would take place on the twenty fourth so we will have one on will have a small ceremony on the money with twenty fourth that was like the ceremony
on the on the evening as the first presentation on the twenty fifth so that paw a lot of people can participate ah so it's an important a dynamically to an important turning ah and top till we invite you to be there and then we
have another one scheduled for the eleventh much so thank you thanks all the presenters and to l and virginia wonderful job again and tunis somebody has asked if you would send out your poem to the
the community i would be so happy to thank you so much