I'm ready to go! Take the shoes off! I just want to say that it's not necessary to keep the aisles empty and if anyone is sitting in the back who wants to sit in the aisle, fine, you can move.

[01:00]

So, I know some people are sitting behind other people and I don't think you can see. So, if you feel forward into the aisle. It's fine. We just about finished the autobiography last time, except for the last little bit, which

[02:48]

And the woman wraps it up, but I'll finish it. Anyway, the last page, I don't know what your number is, but you know where you are. You should know where you are, where you left off last time. Anybody doesn't know where they left off last time? So thenceforth, under the Bodhi tree, I preached the teaching of the Dungshan school. Dungshan here means Dung Mountain, the same place that Dungshan Liangjie came from. They called the teachers by the name of the place they came from. So there are a lot of monks

[03:55]

who are called Dungshan. And you have to know which ones we're talking about. So this is the school of the fourth and the fifth ancestors who lived in Mount Dung. Mount Dung. We should be careful not to say Dung. Dung is poop. Since the time when the Dharma was transmitted to me in Dungshan, I have gone through many hardships and my life often seemed to be hanging by a thread. Today I have had the honor of meeting you in this assembly, and I must describe this to our good connection in previous kalpas, as well as to our common accumulated merits in making offerings to various Buddhas in our past incarnations."

[05:00]

Well, this is a feeling that people have. Because of the affinity we have, it must be because we knew each other in past lives, in some way, whatever that means. I don't know what it means. I'm not sure that it means something literal, but I think it's a feeling, a feeling of intimacy to say something like that. Some people may feel that it's literally so, but for me it's a feeling of intimacy to say something like that. Otherwise, we should have had no chance of hearing the above teaching of the Southern School and thereby laying the foundation of our future success in understanding the Dharma. This teaching was handed down from the past ancestors and is not a system of my own invention. Those who wish to hear the teaching should first purify their own mind, and after hearing it, they should each clear up their own doubts in the same way as the sages did in the past.

[06:12]

At the end of the address, the assembly felt rejoiced, made obeisance, and departed. Purify your mind means to let go of your opinions. Let go of your doubts and your opinions and your speculations. and see clearly, so that you can see clearly, so you don't have anything clouding, any partiality clouding your mind. Do you have any question on this part? Actually, it's not a question about the... about a 45 minute period.

[07:17]

Could we have a stand up break? Oh, yes. Well, somebody will have to remind me of that. Last time, we forgot. And I don't think of it, so. The dome? The dome. A bell? One of the clocks or whatever. A clock or something. Something, yeah. Sharp. A stand up. If one is able to, there's a saying, don't put another above your own, put your head above your own. That means that you have to find out for yourself and then make a question for yourself. What's the difference between that questioning and having a pure mind, which seems to be No, no, it's not that you should put off questioning, but to purify your mind means to not have a dualistic mind.

[08:24]

And a dualistic mind is a mind that's divided and subject to partiality. So when you ask a question, you should think, is this question a divisive question? Or is this a question that leads to unification? There's no end to divisive questioning. Because whatever can be divided, each side of what can be divided can be divided again. And one can continue to keep dividing and creating more partiality. And this kind of questioning is good for certain things, but it's not so beneficial to get to the source.

[09:29]

Because you can't get to the source through that kind of questioning. You can only get to the source by unifying your mind. So unifying your mind is maybe the same as purifying your mind. I think we should also be careful in our questioning. There are all these little questions that come up and sometimes we deal with each one of them and we don't get very far in the sutra. So we have to strike some balance between keeping going in the sutra and dealing with the questions.

[10:31]

So please think about whether or not the question that comes up for you is relevant. I don't want to put any damper on your questioning. And I think all questions are relevant in some way. But some questions are more relevant than others. If we get hung up on little questions, then we can't get very far. So we need to do both and strike a balance. So this next chapter, the first chapter after the biography, autobiography, so-called autobiography, is called Amprajna in this edition. Originally, I don't think there were sections in the chapters in the sutra, but the translators always So this one is called Amprajna, Prajna.

[11:52]

The next day, this is the day after he revealed himself, Prefect Y asked the patriarch to give another address. Thereupon, having taken his seat and asked the assembly to purify their minds, clear their mind, clear your mind of opinions and dualistic thinking and divisiveness. And to recite the Maha Prajnaparamita Sutra, he gave the following address. Learn an audience. The wisdom of enlightenment is inherent in every one of us. It is because of the delusion under which our mind works that we fail to realize it.

[13:01]

That we fail to realize it ourselves and that we have to seek the advice and the guidance of enlightened ones before we can know our own essence of mind. you should know that so far as Buddha nature is concerned, there is no difference between an enlightened person and an ignorant one. What makes the difference is that one realizes it while the other is ignorant of it. Now let me talk to you about Maha Prajnaparamita so that each of you can attain wisdom. There's a, I have a note here. about purifying your mind. It says, do not measure what you hear by your preconceived notions. You know, when we listen to something, to a taisho or lecture, often we're comparing it to our own thoughts, to what we, you know, our ideas and our opinions.

[14:14]

And so it makes it difficult to just hear what's actually happening. So he asked the assembly to purify their mind, and then he says the wisdom of enlightenment is inherent in every one of us. So it means that our own intrinsic enlightenment is there, But why is it that we don't realize it? This is a good question. And a question that somebody in this class once asked me 15 years ago. I remember it. Why is it that we don't just have enlightenment? What's the problem? If enlightenment is inherent in everyone, why don't we have it? As a matter of fact, this was Dogen's question when he went to China. If everyone has the Buddha nature, or if everyone is Buddha nature, why do we have to do something in order to get enlightened?

[15:28]

Good question. Why aren't we just, don't we all feel enlightened? So he says, learn it, audience. Those who recite the word prajna the whole day long, well, recite the word, I mean, those who speak about prajna all the time is what he means. Those who are always talking about prajna all day do not seem to know that prajna is inherent in their own nature. In other words, they're always speculating and rationalizing what prajna is. But they don't seem to understand that prajna is inherent in their own nature.

[16:33]

But mere talking about food will not appease hunger. And this is exactly the case with these people. They're always talking about it, but they don't practice. We might talk about shunyata, which is emptiness, for myriads of kalpas. Shunyata is the Sanskrit word for emptiness. He calls it here the void. The old translators used to use the word void, but emptiness became more popular and we usually word it We might talk on shunyata or emptiness for myriads of kalpas, but talking alone will not enable us to realize self-nature or essence of mind. And it serves no purpose in the end. The word maha prajnaparamita is Sanskrit and means great wisdom to reach the opposite shore of the sea of existence.

[17:40]

What we have to do is to put it into practice, he says, with our mind. There is a translation that says, with our mind. But there are other copies or editions that don't say, with our mind. They just say, practice, which I like better, in a way. What we have to do is to put it into practice. We can say, with our mind, but I think that's extra or misleading. To say, with our mind, I think is a little misleading, because here we're going back to discursiveness again. Practicing prajna with our mind. So we practice prajna with our practice, which includes our mind. But I think it's better to say, put it into practice. And then it leaves no doubt. So the word Maha Prajnaparamita in Sanskrit, it means great wisdom to reach the opposite shore of the sea of existence.

[18:51]

Other shore, you know, we say existence and non-existence. Other shore sounds like someplace else, but it means nirvana, actually, literally it means nirvana. To reach other shore means to reach from samsara to nirvana. But nirvana is not some place that one goes to, of course. Nirvana is the essence of right where you are, or samsara. The old Buddhists always tried to separate nirvana from samsara.

[19:54]

And so a lot of early Buddhism was dualistic. And the monks tried to escape from the world in order to purify their mind, purify their existence so that they would end up in nirvana. And the Mahayanas later came along with the understanding that samsara is nirvana. When we, Suzuki Roshi used to say, when we know how to live on this shore, we're already on the other shore. There is no other place to go to called Nirvana. But Nirvana is right here when we thoroughly understand what samsara is. That there's actually no other shore to go to.

[21:12]

but it's a figure of speech. Whether we recite it or not, or whether we talk about it, or whether we give it lip service or not, doesn't make any difference. We can talk about it all day, but it doesn't matter. Mere reciting it without practice may be likened to a phantasm, a magical delusion, a flash of lightning, or a dewdrop. On the other hand, if we do both, then our mind will be in accord with what we study. So it's okay to study, as long as one is practicing. But just to study and not practice is just to pay lip service, and it doesn't work. practice here means zazen, or leading an intentional life of Buddhadharma.

[22:25]

So our very nature is Buddha, and apart from this nature, there is no other Buddha. So we can't look around and try to find the Buddha, because the Buddha is right here and is your very nature. So then he talks about what is maha. Maha means great. It also means immeasurable. There are many great things, but maha in this case means something immeasurable, the limit, the immeasurable limit of the universe. It also means magnanimous. In another sense it means magnanimous. It means all-encompassing. Everything can fit inside of this greatness.

[23:42]

The capacity of mind is as great as that of space. It is infinite, neither round nor square, neither great nor small, neither green nor yellow, neither red nor white, neither above nor below, neither long nor short, neither angry nor happy, neither right or wrong, neither good or evil, neither first or last, Yet, at the same time, it is all those things, even though I didn't say so. It's none of the above, but it manifests as all those things. That's why the mind is, what we consider our mind, is thinking mind. This is mind of the universe, or infinite mind, of which the small mind is an expression.

[24:47]

So we say big mind and small mind. Big mind is boundless and totally magnanimous. It includes everything. and everything is taken care of within it. And our thinking mind is an expression of this big mind. So we should be very respectful toward our thinking mind, our small mind, because it's at the basis of our small mind is big mind. All Buddha kshetras or lands are as void as space, empty as space.

[25:58]

In Buddhism, every Buddha has a sphere of influence, called the Buddha Land. And actually, each one of us has our sphere of influence. Some of us have a very small sphere of influence, and some of us have a large sphere of influence. But even if we feel we have a small sphere of influence, actually we may have a bigger sphere of influence than we think, or vice versa. We influence everything around us with how we think, how we act, and our attitude. And a Buddha enters into a field, and a field is created around a Buddha. And people recognize this and are very attracted to it.

[27:05]

And within that field, the Buddha teaches. So, yeah. I'm just thinking there's also another kind of influence that's more delusional. Don't you think that people have a sphere of influence? A delusional sphere of influence? Oh, yeah. A lot. And you're attracted to it and it seems... Yes. That's right. So, there are around us infinite spheres of influence. And it's very important for each one of us to know where we stand in the world. What is our basic standpoint in the world? Where do we find our I don't want to say anchored because that sounds too anchored.

[28:10]

Well, it kind of goes back to what you were saying before about questions that are either divisive or bring things together. And if the sphere, if the thing that we're being influenced by creates a certain division, like we want something, or does that sphere bring some kind of harmony? And it's either acquisition or bringing into our life in some way kind of brings us together with something. Yeah. If we know where we stand, then we're not pulled by so many spheres of influence. But if we don't have a standpoint, a place where we are anchored, then when a strong vortex comes along, we'll be pulled into it because we're not strong enough to stand where we are.

[29:15]

So a Buddha is totally centered and is not influenced by various delusive spheres of influence. Not pulled away by delusive spheres of influence. Just a minute. And therefore creates her own sphere of influence. which is a harmonious sphere of influence and not a divisive or seductive sphere of influence. I'm just confused... Please speak louder. Yeah, I'm confused about the way that you're using the term of Buddha because it sounds like you're using a Buddha as a kind of person and there's no difference.

[30:19]

So, maybe it's just a limitation of language, but... Yeah, it's a limitation of language. When I say a Buddha, a Buddha is a person. There is no Buddha that is not a person. So, when I say a Buddha... There's no Buddha that is not a person? There's no Buddha that is not a person. There's no difference between Buddhas and sentient beings. So a Buddha is a realized person. So when I say that Buddha, I'm kind of speaking of the Buddha as a realized person. Each one of us has Buddha nature, but not all of us are realized. But nevertheless, we each have our field, whether we're realized or not. What does it mean to you, exactly?

[31:31]

When you use the word universal mind, what does that mean to you? Well, that means the total, the essence of the essential pulse, which animates everything, and which touches everything, and which everything has in common. So there's no difference really between doubt and self-nature? That's self-nature. They're just different names for the same thing, depending on how you use them.

[32:38]

And when you say that the thinking mind is a microcosm, almost, of the big mind. Expression, yeah. I guess I think in terms of thinking mind as something that happens as a factor of the brain, of cells. But you're not talking about that, right? No. Not thinking, per se. Thinking mind. When we say big mind, that's not the thinking mind. Right, and when you're talking about thinking mind in us? That's our brain. Our brain is simply the organ, the organism which, brain is simply the organ which produces thinking. No, I just said it wasn't. Right. Because I understood you to say that universal mind was the pulse energy that animates everything.

[33:42]

And then I also understood you to say that in us, thinking mind is a minute expression of universal mind. And I was wondering if you were localizing that. No, I wasn't localizing it anywhere. It has no locality. Even talking about it, it doesn't have any locality or color. It's just right here. It is infinite, neither round nor square, nor great nor small, nor green nor yellow, so forth. It has no characteristics that you can touch. I guess I get confused because as soon as you say thinking mind, I think in terms of the brain and the processes of thinking. Yes, that's what I mean when I say that. But I also hear you saying that that's not where it's at, that it's not localized at the brain and it's not just simply the thinking.

[34:43]

That's right, it's not localized in the brain. The brain is an expression, everything is an expression of Big Mind. Thinking mind is an expression of the mind of the universe. The mind of the universe is as great as space, but it's beyond the ability of thinking mind to locate it. Somebody will doubt that, but it's beyond location. If we didn't have thinking mind, thinking mind can think this, right? Thinking mind can think about this. So thinking mind is thinking about itself, about its daddy, its mommy. Okay.

[35:57]

So intrinsically, our transcendental nature is empty, and not a single dharma can be attained. It is the same with the essence of mind, or self-nature, which is a state of absolute emptiness. The emptiness of non-emptiness. I'm using the word emptiness instead of void. The emptiness of non-emptiness. Non-emptiness would be that form, right? It's the emptiness of form. The Heart Sutra says, form is emptiness and emptiness is form. That which is form is emptiness and that which is emptiness is form. It's not like emptiness is over here and form is over here. It's not like the brain is here and big mind is here. The brain is emptiness and emptiness is the brain. Small mind is emptiness and emptiness is small mind.

[37:03]

Whatever you say, it applies. So then he says, learn it, audience. When you hear me talk about emptiness, do not at once fall into the idea of vacuity. which people do. And because this involves the heresy of the doctrine of annihilation, to think that emptiness or void means nothing is to take up or drop into the heresy of annihilation. There are two extremes which are heretical. so to speak, in Buddhism. One is annihilation on the one hand and permanence on the other. Things are neither permanent nor impermanent.

[38:09]

So, ordinarily our dualistic mind is constantly thinking in terms of, it's either this or it's that. And it's very hard to stay with the ambiguity of neither this nor that. Very hard. Because we want resolution. Our mind, our dualistic mind demands resolution. And so we get very angry when we read the koans. People start reading the koans and say, oh, this is a great book, you know. Zen, all the koans leave you with ambiguity. And this ambiguity is the real state of things. But our dualistic mind, which is continually wanting to have resolution on one side or another, becomes very frustrated.

[39:18]

I can't read that. Oh, I started to read that once. So it's very difficult to stay with that and to stay with the ambiguity of, is this life or is it death? He didn't write what he wrote from lack of information, if he wrote it at all. Well, he had the information, but he didn't have the understanding. OK, so then he says, learned audience, when you hear me talk about the void, do not all at once fall into the idea of vacuity, because this involves the heresy of the doctrine of annihilation.

[40:52]

It is of the utmost importance that we should not fall into this idea, because when a person sits quietly and keeps the mind blank, that person will abide in a state of voidness, of indifference. Now, that's interesting. interesting point. It sounds like he's saying, you shouldn't sit there and not think. And there are various places in the sutra where it sounds like he's saying that one should not sit sansen. And there were even people in those days who thought that's what it meant. He's not saying you shouldn't sit, he's saying you shouldn't sit with the mind in a vacuum, with a blank mind. People often think that one should sit Zazen with a blank mind, but we don't sit Zazen with a blank mind.

[41:56]

We don't try to create any special state of mind in Zazen. If you try to create some special state of mind, or if you have some idea about some special state of mind, then that's not sadhana. It's not sitting for meditation. And we have to be very clear on this point. Although we say, sit zazen and don't think, it doesn't mean not to think. It means not to think of something else. When you sit zazen, you should think the thought of zazen. When you wash the dishes, you should think the thought of dishes. When you sweep the floor, you should think the thought of sweeping. When you're making love,

[43:00]

you should think the thought of making love. But when you sit satsen, you should think the thought of satsen. But that's not sitting with a blank mind. It's just that you don't raise up thinking about something. Hilary? Why did you say there's a voidness of indifference? Well, because one can become indifferent. In other words, sometimes if you read a Zazen manual, it's written carelessly. It would say, and you should be indifferent. You know, one should be indifferent. But one is not indifferent. Indifferently would mean that don't pay any attention to what's happening. Does it mean indifference, like the near enemy of equanimity?

[44:08]

Yeah, like the near enemy of equanimity, yeah. Yeah, and it would be indifference, that's right. So, we've been talking Also, it's not that you don't choose one thing over another, but no preference means not choosing something based on ego. But we're always choosing something, we're always making a choice, continuously making a choice.

[45:15]

when choice is based on ego, that's called preference. Indifference is a kind of numbness or isolation. Yeah, numbness or not paying attention or indifferent as to, you know, sometimes it borders on, you know, seems like indifference, but indifference would be not to recognize something. There was a test, and I think Dali The guy you used to work for did this test. You went to India, and there were the yogis and the Zen masters, and when they tapped something, the yogis were into blank mind. And when they tapped a pencil, there was no reaction. But when they tapped a pencil, when people were sitting in Zazen, there was a blip on the screen of And we're able to ignore it and be totally indifferent to the world around us.

[46:31]

Well, if I don't choose out of my ego preference, how do I choose? Well, you choose on the preference of what is right for... If you don't have ego preference, it means that you are... So there are societies which are based on this. Our society is based on the individual. It really is, to a large extent. And there isn't any sense. And we don't, you know, we're not trained to act on behalf of the society.

[47:35]

Most of us. I mean, a lot of people are doing that, you know, but they have a terrible time because anybody that's trying to act on behalf of society has a terrible time. Well, there's all these slippery ways where you might think you're not acting out of your ego or you think you're attending to the situation. There's other things going on. The best I feel like I'm able to do is not so much transcend my ego preference, but just watch my attachment to it. And that's sort of, I feel like, the best I can do. Right. Don't try and transcend your ego preference. I don't think there's any danger. But I really do think in a lot of ways it's a matter of attachment. to it, because I have a ton of preferences, and I think that's who we are, we're these human beings with needs and desires, and I don't think there's any getting out of that. But there is some getting out of that, but if I yearn for that or strive for that, I've already fallen off.

[48:41]

Yeah. Best thing is to just really pay attention to how to serve others, or how to serve the big society. best is to make some effort in how to serve society as yourself. We tend to isolate ourselves often. But there are societies that do that, usually smaller societies, because they're so interdependent. that are isolated. They have to do that. Well, Japan is a collective culture, and it's a big society. Japan, yes, but Japan actually has always made a big effort to do that, even though it doesn't always work. I think collective thinking is definitely an antidote to our excess individualism, and yet at the same time, there are some

[49:44]

Right, right. Every culture has a problem. But, you know, anyway, I don't want to get into all this argument, because whenever you say it, it's an exception. David? Well, that's it. And later, Yakusan, who was a descendant of the sixth ancestor, his trans-dharma grandson, said a famous, well-known statement. And the monk asked, what do you think of in zazen? He said, I think not thinking. The monk said, well, how do you think not thinking? And what's usually translated as non-thinking is more like beyond thinking and not thinking.

[50:53]

Beyond thinking and not thinking. Beyond thinking and not thinking is the koan of Zazen. I would try to explain it more. And I would deprive you of the co-op. So learn in audience the illimitable void of the universe. is capable of holding myriads of things, myriad things of various shape and form, such as the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the rivers, the worlds, springs, rivulets, bushes, woods, good people, bad people, dharmas pertaining to goodness or badness, deva planes, hells, great oceans, and all the mountains of the Maha Maru. That's emptiness, right? It contains everything. Space takes in all these, and so does the emptiness of our nature.

[52:04]

We say that the essence of mind or self-nature is great because it embraces all things, since all things are within our nature. When we see the goodness or the badness of others, we are not attracted by it, nor repelled by it, nor attached to it. so that our attitude of mind is as void as space. In this way, we say our mind is great. Therefore, we call it Maha. So great mind includes everything. And the reason that includes everything, I mean, the reason why The reason that big mind includes everything is because everything is big mind, of course. So this is the kind of problem that we're always dealing with.

[53:09]

The problem of our independent self. And what is the meaning of our independent self in the midst of the universe? A well-known scientist once said, every one of us right now is made up of the same stardust that was formed at the beginning of time. So often we see ourselves just in a very limited way. And what he's saying is, don't see yourself just in this limited way, but realize that your true self is the universe.

[54:21]

If you understand that, you can't get lost. No way you can get lost. But if you don't, feel this, then no matter where you are, you always feel lost. Always looking for some kind of security. So, but an interesting thing he says here, when we see the goodness or the not goodness, the good and the bad of others, we're not attracted by it or impelled by it. We're attached to it. That's pretty difficult. That's an attribute of big mind.

[55:26]

Therefore, we call it Maha. a learned audience, what the ignorant merely talk about, the wise put into actual practice with their mind. There's also a class of foolish people who sit quietly and try to keep their mind blank. Well, that's what he said before. They refrain from thinking of anything and call themselves great. On account of their heretical view, we can hardly talk to them. Learned audience, you should know that the mind is very great in capacity since it pervades the whole Dharmadhatu. When we use it, we can know something of everything. I think know something of everything means omniscience. And omniscience, to say know something of everything, well, you know, we don't know something of everything.

[56:37]

We don't know everything. As we said, Buddha is omniscient. But omniscience in this case means to penetrate one thing so thoroughly that you see the connection between things. Or you can see how in this grain of sand the whole universe is there. But it doesn't mean that you have all the information that's going on in the world. And when we use it to its full capacity, we shall know all. All in one and one in all. When our mind works without hindrance and is at liberty to come or to go, then it is in a state of prajna.

[57:38]

This phrase, liberty to come and go, means it's not tied to anything. In other words, it's not fixed anywhere. So this is an important aspect of Vajna. The form of the mind, there's no fixed form. And when you sit in Zazen, Zazen is not a special state of mind. It's not seeking a special state of mind. It's simply letting everything come up. And whatever comes up, that's the state of mind at this moment. And then the state of mind on the next moment is something else. And the state of mind at the next moment is something else.

[58:39]

So moment to moment, the state of mind is continually changing. And to recognize and be aware of this state of mind and be fully one with this state is a mind of zazen. So that's not no preference. It's not that you prefer some state of mind over another, but whatever state of mind is there, that's reality at this moment. So to see clearly reality is Zazen, not to prefer a certain state of mind. And this is proven to you through when you have preference in Zazen, then you have suffering. to not have that state of mind.

[59:53]

Right, so that mind will haunt you forever. Rather than try to get rid of daydreaming, to wake up to daydreaming. But in the middle of the daydream, you can't. That's the definition of daydreaming. You can't be daydreaming and know you're daydreaming. Or else you're not daydreaming. But you can't. It's what you were a minute ago. But if you... You're in sitting zazen and daydreaming, right? And then you wake up and say, oh, that was daydreaming, right? And as you continue to daydream and wake up, The more you can do that, the more you can catch yourself daydreaming. You say, oh, this is a dream. And then, shall I continue it or stop?

[60:55]

Then you have a choice. So you can keep returning to the thought of Zazen. Keep waking up and returning to the thought of Zazen over and over again. And even if you were daydreaming the whole time, That was just daydreaming Zazen. That was your life of daydreaming. And it's not good or bad. Even though you say we shouldn't be daydreaming, daydreaming is also a human activity. It's not good or bad. It's just that you said that you were going to think the thought of Zazen. If you think that you shouldn't be daydreaming, then you start judging daydreaming mind as being bad, not right. But it was just daydreaming mind.

[61:57]

That's what your life was about at that moment. And that's the thought of Satsang? That's... If you make an effort, You know, if you really concentrate on the thoughts that are appearing in their mind, that's zazen. To try to eradicate thoughts is just the effort to eradicate thoughts. You don't push them away. As soon as you start pushing them away, you're making a judgment. But to just let that be there and to see, that was daydreaming mind. Now this is this mind, and now this is this mind. But you tend to judge. And 85% or 95% of the people who've been sitting for at least 20 years will say sometimes, and that whole time my mind was daydreaming.

[63:01]

Because you prefer some special state of mind, which is blank. But that mind keeps producing thoughts. No matter how much you try, you can't keep the mind blank for a little while. And you can even train yourself to keep a blank mind. But you're trying to keep something up. It's good to, you know, watch to see when a thought will appear. And that means that you're being very attentive and awake. And the mouse will come out of the hole. And you catch it. But usually the mouse is out of the hole and climbing all over your face. Russ? You know, you were saying a few moments ago about not having preferences.

[64:16]

And with that, there still is in Zen practice, to me, what feels like an orientation towards calm mind, calmness in order to see thoughts arising, see big mind and small mind that, you know, duality and all that. So there does seem to be a preference for that. And I'm not saying that's bad. I mean, I prefer it. Is it not anything more than our life is busy and crazy and then we somehow or another have come across this practice and it's oriented toward and then see samsara and nirvana or calm and busy as just this life and it's nothing more than that. There seems to be a preference for calmness.

[65:18]

But what does calmness mean? Calmness means that no matter how busy you are, you're not ruffled. It doesn't mean that you put aside all the busyness, you know. It's good to put aside. You shouldn't be too busy, you know. But within the turmoil, within the confusion, within the problems, to be centered and calm. That's the trick. Within the pain in your legs on the fourth day of Sajjin, to sit with total calmness within it, not to try and get rid of it. to stay there, and then you become more and more calm. You can go two ways. You can become more and more calm, or you can get more and more excited.

[66:22]

And so to really make, that's why it's so difficult. You're on this line all the time, and you want to fall into one side or the other, and you stay right in the middle. You don't let it get this way or that way. Just stay right in the middle. And if you stay in the middle, it's not bad, it's not good, it's not right, it's not wrong, it's not suffering, it's not... it's on deep settleness. Yes? When you say, you know, we're talking about no preferences and not good and not bad, would you say then that there's no such thing as a harmful state of mind? are harmful. Oh yes, there are harmful states of mind. Of course. So how does that relate to what you're saying about... You don't become attached to them. All kinds of states of mind will arise, but in Zazen you don't become attached to them.

[67:26]

You just let them come and go. Nice things come. Terrible things come. Everything comes and goes. You don't hang on to them. My point of so-called engaged Buddhism is about trying to do something about things that are harmful. Well, we're always trying to do something about things that are harmful. That's good. That's good. It's good things to do. Those are good things to do. That's fine. And yet we're trying to practice non-attachment. Yes, don't be attached to your good things. Just do them. Just do what you have to do, because you're not doing it for your ego. You're just doing what you have to do. And you will experience good things and bad things and terrible things, just like in zazen.

[68:28]

But you stay centered and settled and keep your mind calm. So, learned audience, all prajna comes from self-nature, or essence of mind, and not from an exterior source. Have no mistaken notion about that. This is called self-use of the true nature. You know, in Fukan Satsangi, at the end, Dogen says, If you do this correctly, your treasure store will open up itself and you will be able to use it freely. I think that's the same thing. This is called self-use of the true nature.

[69:37]

Once the ta-ta-ta or suchness or essence of mind or self-nature is known, one will be free from delusion forever. But even though one is free from delusion forever, one can still fall into delusion. Why do they call it treasure store? Well, it's a Chinese term, probably an Indian term. An Indian term. It means, you know, that your self-nature is your treasure. That's the one treasure that we all have, even though we go looking for other treasures. That's what he's trying to say. You have already your one treasure, but you go looking for other treasures from outside. But if you find your own treasure, then you don't need to do that. What was the answer that Dogen eventually found in his question?

[70:45]

Why do we know this? Okay, well, it's a long story. But to sum it up, practice is realization, and realization is practice. Everyone has the Buddha nature, But unless it's practiced, it doesn't come forth. Unless it's generated, it doesn't come forth. It's like we have the light bulb and the source of light, but if you don't flip the switch, it doesn't come on. Is practicing Buddha nature connected of practicing self-centeredness? Practice selflessness.

[71:48]

When you practice selflessness, prajna comes forth. So it's kind of like a hand generator, you know, and a light bulb, more than a light switch. You know, when you're talking about not keeping your position, not being ruffled by a situation, not being drawn into the vortex, it seems in one way that's one kind of mind, but then there's another kind of mind that goes with so much aversion. and separation and alienation and hatred that they don't become, this mind doesn't become ruffled with anything and can seem to sit very quietly with almost anything because they're indifferent to it, they don't care.

[73:02]

So what does that mind do in zazen to... That's the near enemy of... Right, but what you're describing What about the mind that is dealing with alienation and just doesn't get ruffled because nothing really touches it? Many times, not every moment. That person has a problem. Many people feel that way.

[74:05]

I mean, that's not so much hope for them. Many people are drug addicted or whatever. It's that aversion to pain is so great. A lot of it is, I think. There's not very much vivacity, really. There's not a lot of vigor in their lives. And I don't know, sometimes I feel like we talk about the other thing, attachment more. Well, aversion, yeah. There are two kinds of attachment. One is grasping, and the other is aversion. Right. So both are attachment. And usually, there are people who will, you know, suffer through pain with a lot of anger, you know? But I don't think it can last. Eventually, they will get worn away. If they continue to... They will go through pain without much of a reaction because... Yeah.

[75:06]

They should do something besides using them. Yeah. It doesn't help them so much. No. They should be doing what? Well, she's saying a person that's so averse to pain, they don't feel anything. Well, I would say in our culture, very often, look at how desensitized people are. I'm kind of talking about that level. Actually, many times people are angry at things they just don't care about. They let things happen around them and they're kind of desensitized to it. People are numb to their own pain and other people's pain, so I'm asking more Where do you come from with that kind of, because everyone has parts of that, I think. Well, you know, everyone cuts off certain access to what comes in, right?

[76:07]

And so we select sort of what we'll feel in some way. We do have a selective kind of consciousness. If we were completely open, it would be too much. I've always said, after doing operations, doctors have to eat. Psychiatrists have to go home. Everybody has to... You can't constantly live with all the suffering in the world and pain in the world. inside of you, that's too much for anybody. So you limit it, even though you know it's there, and you select times to deal with it. But that's a big question, because I don't think I can deal with it here. Yeah? I'm interested in what you were talking about, Sassan practice. What about it?

[77:07]

About Sassan practice, and the Sassan mind, What is the role of counting breath? Letting the thoughts come in and let them go without attaching yourself to any of that. What is that in the scope of what you were saying about what I understood you to say which was if a thought comes in, observe it, see it, don't get attached, What is the role of that and counting breath and letting this thought come in and let it go? Well, that's a little bit of getting away from this. But I would say counting the breath is just a handle on the breath. It's merely to help you focus. And then you let go of that and you just... Well, you have to let go of it because you only count one number at a time. Yeah, but I mean, some people make it a practice to just count breath for an hour.

[78:10]

That's okay. One, two, three. When you get to ten, you start again with one. Right. And then you know that you're paying attention. That's all it is. It's just to let you know that you're paying attention. Since the scope of the mind is for great things, says great objects, but great things, we should not practice such trivial acts as sitting quietly with a blank mind. That's the third time he said that. He must be very restless, you know. He only means it. Do not talk about emptiness all day without practicing it, never mind in the mind. One who does this may be likened to a self-styled king who is really a commoner.

[79:12]

Pragnya can never be attained in this way, and those who behave like this are not my disciples." He must be addressing a school, which was... Well, he has this large audience. He's in the monastery. I mean, he must be, by stressing the point three times, Referring to some sect or some school that was striving for the right mind. Yes, that's right. In those times there were schools, and even later. And even now. And even now. Right. And then he says, learned audience, what is prajna? It means wisdom. If at all times and in all places we steadily keep our thought free from foolish desire, and act wisely on all occasions, then we are practicing prajna. So keep your mind free from foolish desire and act wisely in all occasions. Well, that's very general. One foolish notion is enough to shut it off, while one wise thought will bring it forth again.

[80:20]

People in ignorance are under delusion to not see it. They talk about it with their tongues, but in their mind they remain ignorant. They're always saying that they practice it, and they talk incessantly on emptiness, But they do not know the absolute void, emptiness. The heart of wisdom is prajna, which has neither form nor characteristic. If we interpret it in this way, then indeed it is the wisdom of prajna. So it has no form or characteristic. And it's like wisdom. In the plant and animal world, it's instinct. Sokyan says it's like the flower responds to the sun. This is instinct. This is prajna. The sun and the flower are not two things. entering the sun and the sun is entering the flower.

[81:34]

Even though the sun is the sun and the flower is the flower, this is just universal activity. It's activity of the universe responding to itself. And in humans it's called intuition and instinct. It's knowing what to do. Without knowing, by being one with things, what to do. So when we say Prajna arises, it means that which knows what to do. And when we relax our mind and depend on it, it doesn't mean we stop thinking, but our thinking is in accord with Prajna. and we're not squeezing it off through false thinking.

[82:35]

We allow prajna to fill the mind, to express itself through the mind, our mind. So that's why we practice zazen, so that prajna will express itself through our mind. When you get stand up from zazen, you go outside, everything's fresh and new, no matter how good or bad your zazen was. And then as you begin to engage in the world, you start using your own mind. And hopefully, through practice, you can continue to let prajna express itself, rather than trying to be so dependent on cunning. It's time to stop. It's time to stop. OK. So next time, what is paramita? We're just whipping through it.

[83:50]

I just want to read you one thing. It's short. It's very short. This is So Kheon says about in his commentary What's that? Soke-yan Sasaki, who is the, I'll explain to you later. In regard to Buddha nature, this is the sixth patriarch. In regard to Buddha nature, you should know that intrinsically there is no difference between the ignorant and the wise, except that one is deluded and the other is enlightened. Right? That's what the sutra says. And then Soke-yan says, an enlightened one so closely, so intimately, finds the Buddha nature in himself that there is not any, that there's no, no one anymore. You realize that Buddha nature exists only in yourself or only as yourself. This is so clear to you that from morning to evening you are always Buddha nature. Of course there is much dust in it, but you clean it day by day.

[84:51]

You find the gold and you see it clearly, but there is much impurity in it. You must put the gold into the fire, refine it and beat it with a hammer to make it pure. Pure Buddha nature is like this. No, Buddha nature is like this. When you find Buddha nature in yourself, it is crude. It must be shaped and refined. A good teacher is a harsh teacher who takes off all pride and selfishness. There will be turmoil for five or six years. It is hard to find such a teacher. He doesn't care about whether the disciple comes or goes or whether he will He starved tomorrow. He snarls at them and many go away. I do not blame the teacher. I blame the disciples. I wish I could be a teacher like that. Me too.

[85:44]

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